I'm not ready to crucify CCP over this. Bugs happen, players exploit them. I'm waiting for more information before I go all ballistic over it.

Originally posted by Taram

I'm not ready to crucify CCP over this. Bugs happen, players exploit them. I'm waiting for more information before I go all ballistic over it.

 

If reason was allowed on the internet I would agree with your statement, but since it is not I wil emorage!!!!

Its the end of EVE!!!!11111

Meeting Minutes now online.

I'm still digging through it, but looks serious to me.

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 

Originally posted by JayBirdz

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 

 

the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

[quote=Bunyip]You can never please some people...

I have been nothing but forthcoming to the events as I interpret them, without CCP intervention. Yes, QA screwed up on letting this exploit through, but it was inevitable that it would happen sooner or later. Yes, Petitions screwed up on letting this get caught in the paperwork for 5 days. Yes, the answers we have now are somewhat vague.

If something like this occured in another game, what kind of response do you think you'd get. I've played many other games, and the usual response is "It's something we can't fix, the code won't let us." What you have now is a corporation that admitted wrongdoing in the T2O scandal (although they didn't handle it well), and who is willing to devote a lot of their time to sifting through the old records to find any traces of wrongdoing and take irrevocable action to the accounts.

You call me CCP's lapdog, and you have that right. I have given you the answers based on what I got from the meeting, but I am still restricted by the NDA. This exploit was a disaster monetarily, and it will take some time to fix, but we're not talking about big brother here. I advise you to be patient, and you can always reach me in the chatroom titled 'CSM Chat' or via evemail or convo.

What more can I say?
[/quote]

you can never please some people?

wow.

you mean like how a lot of accusations laid out during the t20 thing were simply ignored and ccp acted as if those accusations never occured?

or how a certain bbq person posted a real person's real information on eve-o's boards and encouraged people to call and get that guy fired? and molle got what, banned from eve-o's boards for a couple of days, while K got all his accounts banned FOR EXPOSING the cheating? oh, he was banned cuz he did it illegally... is that why he never went to jail? cuz he was doing stuff illegally?

you're right, you can never please some people... the ones that actually think for a second or two.

the only conclusion TO draw is that it's well known alts of people involved in the t20 crap that were also involved in this... why else WOULD you cover it up?

and for the playing populace to know THAT... that's a lot more tin foil hattery going on than anyone could have dreamed up... well, that's just silly talk there.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by JayBirdz

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 

 

 

the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

Ye the ghost training cover up really blew up in their face. At first someone said the dwindled down from 39k players to 33k players, someone else said the dwindled from 43k players to 38k players.

They did recoupe fast though,this sunday it was merely 500 people people from their earlier record of 42700 players.

If that is how one define "blow up in the face" I also would like to have things blow up in my face.

(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

---

Originally posted by Orphes

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Originally posted by damian7

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Originally posted by JayBirdz

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 
 

---

 
the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

---

 
Ye the ghost training cover up really blew up in their face. At first someone said the dwindled down from 39k players to 33k players, someone else said the dwindled from 43k players to 38k players.
They did recoupe fast though,this sunday it was merely 500 people people from their earlier record of 42700 players.
If that is how one define "blow up in the face" I also would like to have things blow up in my face.
(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

---

Erm... I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the online players numbers just yet. Winter is typically a very slow time in EVE as many people head home from their universities and either don't have time to play, can't play or just can't be arsed to play when they're visiting with families. December is typically a pretty 'slow' month in EVE :)

So being 500 off their peak probably means nothing :)

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Orphes

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Originally posted by damian7

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Originally posted by JayBirdz

 

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 
 

---

 

 
the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

---

 
Ye the ghost training cover up really blew up in their face. At first someone said the dwindled down from 39k players to 33k players, someone else said the dwindled from 43k players to 38k players.
They did recoupe fast though,this sunday it was merely 500 people people from their earlier record of 42700 players.
If that is how one define "blow up in the face" I also would like to have things blow up in my face.
(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

---

 

Erm... I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the online players numbers just yet. Winter is typically a very slow time in EVE as many people head home from their universities and either don't have time to play, can't play or just can't be arsed to play when they're visiting with families. December is typically a pretty 'slow' month in EVE :)

So being 500 off their peak probably means nothing :)

I'm not shure if you misunderstood my post. But I meant the numbers are looking good, better then being spouted when the ghost-training was removed.

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Orphes

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Originally posted by damian7

---

Originally posted by JayBirdz

 

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 
 

---

 

 
the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

---

 
Ye the ghost training cover up really blew up in their face. At first someone said the dwindled down from 39k players to 33k players, someone else said the dwindled from 43k players to 38k players.
They did recoupe fast though,this sunday it was merely 500 people people from their earlier record of 42700 players.
If that is how one define "blow up in the face" I also would like to have things blow up in my face.
(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

---

 

Erm... I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the online players numbers just yet. Winter is typically a very slow time in EVE as many people head home from their universities and either don't have time to play, can't play or just can't be arsed to play when they're visiting with families. December is typically a pretty 'slow' month in EVE :)

So being 500 off their peak probably means nothing :)

 

I'm not shure if you misunderstood my post. But I meant the numbers are looking good, better then being spouted when the ghost-training was removed.

 you do realize that ccp boasts some 250,000+ active subs, right?  not just a piddly 40k subs.  so, if you never see the other 210,000+ accounts on at once, how EXACTLY are you determining that ccp has taken no hits to their subscriber base?  i'm honestly curious; because even if they were to drop from an average of 40k people concurrently online down to 30k people concurrently online... how would that prove/disprove anything of the other 200k+ subs?

CCP is dedicated to the development of cutting edge massively multiplayer games. Our company is founded on the principle of pushing the envelope and breaking new ground on all levels. We are not about making copycat products with compromised quality, but about making dreams a reality.

this was unstickied a long time ago and yet it stays at the top of the first page.  sounds like about 200 pages of people highly upset.  have you checked all the names in the thread to see if they're still all active?  for the record, you don't HAVE to go to the extreme of closing your account in order to be vehemently against a decision.  although incredibly moronic, simple-minded, bottom-feeders would tell you that's your only recourse.  that's mainly out of their fanboism showing thru and their hatred of anything that's against the party talking points.

 HOWEVER

if you're the type of player that only has a single account, i guess you can't affect their wallets as much as those of us who ran multiple accounts and paid the equivalent of several yearly subs+.  i know myself and a couple of others, out of principle, have cancelled either all, or all but one, of our accounts.

 i'm never seeing those 40k signed on when i log on, like i used to.  but i am noticing a queue to login a LOT of times when there's only 23-28k showing logged onto the server.  why is that?

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Orphes

---

Originally posted by damian7

---

Originally posted by JayBirdz

 

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 
 

---

 

 
the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

---

 
Ye the ghost training cover up really blew up in their face. At first someone said the dwindled down from 39k players to 33k players, someone else said the dwindled from 43k players to 38k players.
They did recoupe fast though,this sunday it was merely 500 people people from their earlier record of 42700 players.
If that is how one define "blow up in the face" I also would like to have things blow up in my face.
(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

---

 

Erm... I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the online players numbers just yet. Winter is typically a very slow time in EVE as many people head home from their universities and either don't have time to play, can't play or just can't be arsed to play when they're visiting with families. December is typically a pretty 'slow' month in EVE :)

So being 500 off their peak probably means nothing :)

 

I'm not shure if you misunderstood my post. But I meant the numbers are looking good, better then being spouted when the ghost-training was removed.

 you do realize that ccp boasts some 250,000+ active subs, right?  not just a piddly 40k subs.  so, if you never see the other 210,000+ accounts on at once, how EXACTLY are you determining that ccp has taken no hits to their subscriber base?  i'm honestly curious; because even if they were to drop from an average of 40k people concurrently online down to 30k people concurrently online... how would that prove/disprove anything of the other 200k+ subs?

 

CCP is dedicated to the development of cutting edge massively multiplayer games. Our company is founded on the principle of pushing the envelope and breaking new ground on all levels. We are not about making copycat products with compromised quality, but about making dreams a reality.

 

this was unstickied a long time ago and yet it stays at the top of the first page.  sounds like about 200 pages of people highly upset.  have you checked all the names in the thread to see if they're still all active?  for the record, you don't HAVE to go to the extreme of closing your account in order to be vehemently against a decision.  although incredibly moronic, simple-minded, bottom-feeders would tell you that's your only recourse.  that's mainly out of their fanboism showing thru and their hatred of anything that's against the party talking points.

 HOWEVER

if you're the type of player that only has a single account, i guess you can't affect their wallets as much as those of us who ran multiple accounts and paid the equivalent of several yearly subs+.  i know myself and a couple of others, out of principle, have cancelled either all, or all but one, of our accounts.

 i'm never seeing those 40k signed on when i log on, like i used to.  but i am noticing a queue to login a LOT of times when there's only 23-28k showing logged onto the server.  why is that?

 

 

 

 

First:

(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

Do I really need to explain that one?

Second:

I was referring to the other ones measurement. And they used logged in users.

Third:

Those who was affected by was those that hadd inactive accounts otherwise you would not be affected would you. So how would an inactive account be counted in the 250k active subscriptions. Circling accounts means no difference there.

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Orphes

---

Originally posted by damian7

---

Originally posted by JayBirdz

 

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 
 

---

 

 
the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

---

 
Ye the ghost training cover up really blew up in their face. At first someone said the dwindled down from 39k players to 33k players, someone else said the dwindled from 43k players to 38k players.
They did recoupe fast though,this sunday it was merely 500 people people from their earlier record of 42700 players.
If that is how one define "blow up in the face" I also would like to have things blow up in my face.
(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

---

 

Erm... I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the online players numbers just yet. Winter is typically a very slow time in EVE as many people head home from their universities and either don't have time to play, can't play or just can't be arsed to play when they're visiting with families. December is typically a pretty 'slow' month in EVE :)

So being 500 off their peak probably means nothing :)

 

I'm not shure if you misunderstood my post. But I meant the numbers are looking good, better then being spouted when the ghost-training was removed.

 you do realize that ccp boasts some 250,000+ active subs, right?  not just a piddly 40k subs.  so, if you never see the other 210,000+ accounts on at once, how EXACTLY are you determining that ccp has taken no hits to their subscriber base?  i'm honestly curious; because even if they were to drop from an average of 40k people concurrently online down to 30k people concurrently online... how would that prove/disprove anything of the other 200k+ subs?

 

CCP is dedicated to the development of cutting edge massively multiplayer games. Our company is founded on the principle of pushing the envelope and breaking new ground on all levels. We are not about making copycat products with compromised quality, but about making dreams a reality.

 

this was unstickied a long time ago and yet it stays at the top of the first page.  sounds like about 200 pages of people highly upset.  have you checked all the names in the thread to see if they're still all active?  for the record, you don't HAVE to go to the extreme of closing your account in order to be vehemently against a decision.  although incredibly moronic, simple-minded, bottom-feeders would tell you that's your only recourse.  that's mainly out of their fanboism showing thru and their hatred of anything that's against the party talking points.

 HOWEVER

if you're the type of player that only has a single account, i guess you can't affect their wallets as much as those of us who ran multiple accounts and paid the equivalent of several yearly subs+.  i know myself and a couple of others, out of principle, have cancelled either all, or all but one, of our accounts.

 i'm never seeing those 40k signed on when i log on, like i used to.  but i am noticing a queue to login a LOT of times when there's only 23-28k showing logged onto the server.  why is that?

 

 

 

 

 

First:

(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

Do I really need to explain that one?

Second:

I was referring to the other ones measurement. And they used logged in users.

Third:

Those who was affected by was those that hadd inactive accounts otherwise you would not be affected would you. So how would an inactive account be counted in the 250k active subscriptions. Circling accounts means no difference there.

i wasn't being obtuse originally, nor am i now; but you are not answering my questions, nor seemingly understanding them.

yes, i believe it should be apparent in my post that i understood you were talking about concurrent players logged on, especially since i used the term "concurrent players logged on" twice.

if there are 50k total subs, is it possible to see 48k people logged on concurrently?  yes.

if there are 250k total subs, is it possible to see 250k people logged on concurrently?  right now, the answer appears to be "no".

so, what does it matter if you see 25k people at the max or 50k people at the max?  how does that determine that the total amount of subs (250k+) has changed or not?

so in response to your first part, no, from my original reply, i understood what you said; but i have had to elaborate upon what i have stated.  do you see what i'm saying?  it does NOT matter if the most people logged on you are seeing is 35k, 45k, or 48k -- this does not affect the total subs, does it?

second -- again, what does it matter?  the total amount of people logged on will vary day to day and even hour to hour.  this does not affect the total amount of subs one whit.

thirdly -- seriously?   if i have 5 accounts, then at any given time 2-5 of those accounts are active.  how exactly is ccp determining the total number of active accounts?  are they taking an average of the total active subs over the past 30 days?  60 days?  i find it hard to believe they arbitrarily pick one day at random and state "hey, we have X active accounts today - publish that".  even if they DID that, then (in my case), on that one random day, i would have 2-5 active accounts.  so, what exactly are you trying to say?  "inactive" accounts are not always inactive, and a lot of inactive accounts COULD be active more than inactive during the course of a year. 

so um, what are you talking about?

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Orphes

---

Originally posted by damian7

---

Originally posted by JayBirdz

 

I admit that I am kind of surprised at the amount of information they shared.  Better than trying to cover it up like I thought they would. 
 

---

 

 
the cover ups in the past have blown up in their faces.  plus, they have to try to do some positive pr with the changes to inactive-training (re-labeled ghost training to try to put a bad spin on what has been touted as a counter to rested xp in other games, for the past several years) and the GTC changes... both of which are not well received by the general eve populace.

---

 
Ye the ghost training cover up really blew up in their face. At first someone said the dwindled down from 39k players to 33k players, someone else said the dwindled from 43k players to 38k players.
They did recoupe fast though,this sunday it was merely 500 people people from their earlier record of 42700 players.
If that is how one define "blow up in the face" I also would like to have things blow up in my face.
(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

---

 

Erm... I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the online players numbers just yet. Winter is typically a very slow time in EVE as many people head home from their universities and either don't have time to play, can't play or just can't be arsed to play when they're visiting with families. December is typically a pretty 'slow' month in EVE :)

So being 500 off their peak probably means nothing :)

 

I'm not shure if you misunderstood my post. But I meant the numbers are looking good, better then being spouted when the ghost-training was removed.

 you do realize that ccp boasts some 250,000+ active subs, right?  not just a piddly 40k subs.  so, if you never see the other 210,000+ accounts on at once, how EXACTLY are you determining that ccp has taken no hits to their subscriber base?  i'm honestly curious; because even if they were to drop from an average of 40k people concurrently online down to 30k people concurrently online... how would that prove/disprove anything of the other 200k+ subs?

 

CCP is dedicated to the development of cutting edge massively multiplayer games. Our company is founded on the principle of pushing the envelope and breaking new ground on all levels. We are not about making copycat products with compromised quality, but about making dreams a reality.

 

this was unstickied a long time ago and yet it stays at the top of the first page.  sounds like about 200 pages of people highly upset.  have you checked all the names in the thread to see if they're still all active?  for the record, you don't HAVE to go to the extreme of closing your account in order to be vehemently against a decision.  although incredibly moronic, simple-minded, bottom-feeders would tell you that's your only recourse.  that's mainly out of their fanboism showing thru and their hatred of anything that's against the party talking points.

 HOWEVER

if you're the type of player that only has a single account, i guess you can't affect their wallets as much as those of us who ran multiple accounts and paid the equivalent of several yearly subs+.  i know myself and a couple of others, out of principle, have cancelled either all, or all but one, of our accounts.

 i'm never seeing those 40k signed on when i log on, like i used to.  but i am noticing a queue to login a LOT of times when there's only 23-28k showing logged onto the server.  why is that?

 

 

 

 

 

First:

(I'm refering to logged in playes at the same time.)

Do I really need to explain that one?

Second:

I was referring to the other ones measurement. And they used logged in users.

Third:

Those who was affected by was those that hadd inactive accounts otherwise you would not be affected would you. So how would an inactive account be counted in the 250k active subscriptions. Circling accounts means no difference there.

 

 

i wasn't being obtuse originally, nor am i now; but you are not answering my questions, nor seemingly understanding them.

 

yes, i believe it should be apparent in my post that i understood you were talking about concurrent players logged on, especially since i used the term "concurrent players logged on" twice.

 

if there are 50k total subs, is it possible to see 48k people logged on concurrently?  yes.

if there are 250k total subs, is it possible to see 250k people logged on concurrently?  right now, the answer appears to be "no".

so, what does it matter if you see 25k people at the max or 50k people at the max?  how does that determine that the total amount of subs (250k+) has changed or not?

so in response to your first part, no, from my original reply, i understood what you said; but i have had to elaborate upon what i have stated.  do you see what i'm saying?  it does NOT matter if the most people logged on you are seeing is 35k, 45k, or 48k -- this does not affect the total subs, does it?

 

 

second -- again, what does it matter?  the total amount of people logged on will vary day to day and even hour to hour.  this does not affect the total amount of subs one whit.

 

 

thirdly -- seriously?   if i have 5 accounts, then at any given time 2-5 of those accounts are active.  how exactly is ccp determining the total number of active accounts?  are they taking an average of the total active subs over the past 30 days?  60 days?  i find it hard to believe they arbitrarily pick one day at random and state "hey, we have X active accounts today - publish that".  even if they DID that, then (in my case), on that one random day, i would have 2-5 active accounts.  so, what exactly are you trying to say?  "inactive" accounts are not always inactive, and a lot of inactive accounts COULD be active more than inactive during the course of a year. 

 

 

so um, what are you talking about?

 

 

I wwas using words from others. As they was using logged people as ameasurement, correct or not. And as the logged in people contrary to that have been higher, while you have a point, is not that far fetched to say that subs are not declining. Canceling accounts can't be used as a reason to play more, can it?

Even if it's average. And you are at most 5/10 accounts active it will be only those 5 accounts that are taken into account. 5 accounts active one month  5 next month would only make 5 subs average. And also if accounts are more active then not it is up to a point where the removal of ghosttrained really did not change anything.

Sorry just tired.

Why do people go so crazy over this? All they have to do is delete everything that was duped into the game and it's fixed. I mean really whocares if you lose money or items because of this? Just play the game to get them again because isn't playing the game meant to be fun and not like work?

 

I've always felt most of CCP's mistakes have come from trying to push the envelope and do thing other games wouldn't do. Plus, it's meant to be a wide-open sandbox type of game. I think this presents it's own set of problems as it relates to policing peoples actions. This probably explains why CCP is able to grow and evolve, despite these incidents, when other games do not. Even though those games don't have regular incidents.

Originally posted by Taram

I'm not ready to crucify CCP over this. Bugs happen, players exploit them. I'm waiting for more information before I go all ballistic over it.

 

As an update it appears that at least 178 starbases were involved in EVE Online's multi-trillion ISK exploit. I would be interested to see how many corporations were knowlingly making a profit off of this exploit, but as they said, the investigation still continues.

Originally posted by qazyman

I've always felt most of CCP's mistakes have come from trying to push the envelope and do thing other games wouldn't do. Plus, it's meant to be a wide-open sandbox type of game. I think this presents it's own set of problems as it relates to policing peoples actions. This probably explains why CCP is able to grow and evolve, despite these incidents, when other games do not. Even though those games don't have regular incidents.

actually, a part of eve online still going (and even growing) is twofold -- 1 all the non devs that benefit from dev cheating; and 2 - the rest of the eve populace just accepting that dev cheating has always been around and will always be around.

Haven't seen any huge impact to the economy yet myself... has anyone else? And, no offense Damien... if they were so corrupt they never would have said anything about it in the first place. You don't play, you don't have access to the forums and yet you continually spout off your clueless posts about how horrible CCP is.

Frankly I've played most MMORPG's out there and, other than the T20 incident, CCP has been far superior to any other MMORPG company I've had to deal with in my time playing MMO's over the past 12 years. Hell, they're better than most single player game companies going back over 3 decades.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by qazyman

I've always felt most of CCP's mistakes have come from trying to push the envelope and do thing other games wouldn't do. Plus, it's meant to be a wide-open sandbox type of game. I think this presents it's own set of problems as it relates to policing peoples actions. This probably explains why CCP is able to grow and evolve, despite these incidents, when other games do not. Even though those games don't have regular incidents.

 

actually, a part of eve online still going (and even growing) is twofold -- 1 all the non devs that benefit from dev cheating; and 2 - the rest of the eve populace just accepting that dev cheating has always been around and will always be around.

Been playing EVE for the past year and a half, and i haven't felt the impact of any of the exploiting or cheating you claim exists.

Me thinks you speak without any first hand knowledge.

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Originally posted by Taram
Haven't seen any huge impact to the economy yet myself... has anyone else?

---

I saw prices of t2 modules rising as a reaction. If you look at ferrogel, you see it's primarily used in ship construction, not for modules.

People were jumpy after the announcement and the market went mad since then. Prices increased by about 10% on average on t2 mods and especially drones.

Market speculation is always funny, bet some people burned a lot of isk there.