Originally posted by Moirae 

*sighs* honey, I work in a service driven industry. The product is a hotel room, and the service is what we give the customer. You are wrong and you are taking this to a place it doesn't need to go. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that many people here are being very childish about this. I could even cite many instances in hotels that compare to this but you wouldn't care anyway because you're hell bent on thinking you're being screwed when you aren't.

I guess since corporate presidents in the hotel industry lie all the time to their customers it is just fine and dandy that it happens in MMOs.

This is a perfect example of why SOE can get away with what they do for so long. 

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by ursin

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by ursin

some of us aren't upset about it being RMT.

I do not like RMT, but i see it is the 'way of things to come' unfortunately.

i dont' want to use RMT or MicroTransactions in a subscription game, but i see it will be the way of things to come, as i said. the emphasis here though is TO COME.....

what SOE has done with this implementation after the great and glorious Smedley has said  "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." is WRONG. period. end of statement.

 

Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.

 

if i run a business that is customer driven, in that there is no 'merchandise' merely a service i offer for x dollars a month ... i dunno.. lets say 15. and i make a statement to my customers that i am going to implement a feature with my service, but i'm going to do it in a way that those that don't want that feature don't have to be involved with it... i dunno... making the above statement regarding Station Exchange and how RMT won't be on any other servers. I then arbitrarily change my mind with ... i dunno... station cash. it may not be personal, but it's a pretty sad way to run a business that relies on subscriptions of the people i just lied to....

but what do i know, i'm not a president of an international game manufacturer... maybe that makes sense on some level. i dunno.

 

*sighs* honey, I work in a service driven industry. The product is a hotel room, and the service is what we give the customer. You are wrong and you are taking this to a place it doesn't need to go. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that many people here are being very childish about this. I could even cite many instances in hotels that compare to this but you wouldn't care anyway because you're hell bent on thinking you're being screwed when you aren't.

so far you've said i'm wrong a number of ways, my  questions still stand....

how is SOE saying they will not launch RMT on non-Station Exchange servers, and then doing just that, not wrong?

how is it not out and out misrepresentation of their intentions? 

how is implementing it days after a new expansion not inappropriate?

I've worked as a wedding dj for going on 20 years, and if i treated people like that i'd be out of business, but that's just because i'm a little guy i guess....

I think what it really boils down too is the simple fact that people don't like being lied too, and this is exactly what John Smedley has done...and frankly has been doing for quite some time.
 

I think that quite a few people here either don't recall or was not involved in SWG pre-NGE, i don't think they can really understand that when NGE was released entire guilds left, thousands upon thousands of players quit...or the amount of players who bought Trials of Obi-Wan only to send it back to SoE demanding a refund on a obviously incomplete expansion....due to Mr. Smedley's and staffs ineptitude and disconnection with the gaming public,

Is RMT a big thing? well to be honest i can see how it can give a pssible advantage on PvP servers, yes...an advantage given to a player simply because he/she is willing to shell out more money for a 'x' weapon or 'y' armor is a way to make others shell out the same amount not just to gain a similar advantage but just to be on-par.....why bother killing that NM for that unique drop when you can give SoE an extra 10 bucks?

However, the real point is Mr. Smedley flat-out said that RMT wouldn't be on non player-exchange servers...once again and very true to form he lied and did whatever he wanted, player-base be damned.

When this doesn't work either and EQ2 players start leaving.....hopefully SoE will get the message and fire Mr. Smedley.

Edit: here is a very old (and very long) article from a former EQ/SWG gamer talking about SoE tactics and Mr. Smedley.

http://plaguelands.com/2006/02/23/smedley%E2%80%99s-skill-in-the-art-of-bs-has-increased-to-epic-proportions-300/

If you think of mmos as a game like a console game these changes will piss you off. Most of the people so angry about this probably view the eq2 experience in this way. So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.

In this thread alone I have been called a lot of things by those that do not like the idea. They can not understand that I can stay with a game that changes or has things I disagree with. Calling me complacent or addicted shows they are on a different wave length when it come s mmorpgs. You see it is simple I could careless what others have in the game I do not view mmos as a competition like a strategy or shooter game. I do not play the game for the rewards simply because I do not view items in mmos as rewards. Items are tools for me to enjoy the diversity of the persisten world. I avoid PvP type mmos because that is how the players interact in the world as if they are winning. This is fine and fun for many just not my play style.

I play these games for the experience of being in what I see as a living changing persisten world. That is the experience I expect to get for my money. EQ2 has offered this since release. Even with all the changes that core element has not changed. When the changes come I adapted my play style accordingly. If I can not do this I leave. What would make me leave is what SOE did to SWG. They change the core experience into one more like a console type game. It went from a living breathing world to a game. That is why I left, it had nothing to do with "lies" or changes I did not agree with. Mmos always change. WoTLK has tons of players saying they had enough and are leaving WOW. It does not matter how the developer presents the change, truthfully or "lies" some will leave if anything changes and spend time vilifying the developers, a lot of people simply hate change. I embrace change because that is life nothing stays the same. These games are meant to change and should change. Most who post here do not seem so angry about the changes but how the changes were announced or implemented into the game.

The changes SOE has made to EQ2 have actually help me enjoy the persistent world even more. This includes using a modest item mall. EQ2 offers a lot of choice in play style. Those that say these items in the mall are an excuse not to add content items you can get in game are simply making a weak argument.  EQ2 has more items to aquire then any mmo I have played (except pre-nge SWG). It would take you years if ever to get everything. There are 1000's of item. Now if EQ2 had about 100 items I could see this arguement a bit clearer. Has SOE lied well yes, it seem to suggest that, with the many post showing statement made by them. However I look at it less as some kind of lie or scam to trick their player base and more as a business changing its mind. SOE is really guilty of poor communication skills.

Now you can totally disagree with my above reasons but maybe if you change your thinking a bit you can see how this is not such a deal breaker for me. You may still not want to play EQ2 but you might not feel the need to label me as someone who does not get it or addicted. We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it.  The numerous changes in EQ2 some I agree with some I don't have not changed what EQ2 offers me. It offers a chance to explore and interact with a living breathing world. I been playing WOW since release it is a great game I love it. However it is more of a game to me. My avatar is just a vehicle to move around the game world. EQ2 seems alive to me. My avatars are like little people that have lives and personalities hence the rpg part of mmorpg. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 has changed that, in fact over the years it has become more of a living world. So the changes are not that big of a deal to me. We simply play the same game but get different expereinces from it. From your point of view this stuff is game breaking from mine they aren't. EQ2 is a masterpeice work of art for me even with a few cracks in the paint (cut me a bit of slack with that analogy after all I do teach art history. My students actually think it is pretty fun I wear my WOW cap on campus. I really want an EQ2 cap that might confuse them since I am know as that WOW professor. They do not know I am more into EQ2. To those that say I am addicted to EQ2 wrong in my real life people would more likely say I am addicted to WOW. I am not a EQ2 fanboi I play a lot of mmos by a lot of different developers). 

Originally posted by eccoton

So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.

I think that perhaps, if both sides would stop sniping at one another and simply admit that because the way that they approach the game is fundamentally different much of the animosity and name-calling would cease.

I am one of the biggest EQ2 boosters around. I love the game. I have also been strident in my criticism over the years when they do bone-headed things. No one here has accused me of being in Sony's pocket, and aside from the noise generated by one poster in particular, no one has accused me of being a "hater".

Why? Because I attempt to address my comments from the notion that both sides are correct in this. They are.  As I stated in past posts, people will draw their own "line in the sand" over this issue, and belittling someone who has reached and refuses to follow across that line, or the one who happily steps over it, is futile and does nothing but generate hard feelings. The end result is that some people reading here will certainly be turned away from the game due to the rancor exhibited.

Name calling and personal attacks help no one, and simply serve to make the poster look foolish.

I hope that some of you will try to see the other side and stop poking one another over an issue that, in the end, is simply a personal choice.

Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Jeff44

Originally posted by eccoton

So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.

I think that perhaps, if both sides would stop sniping at one another and simply admit that because the way that they approach the game is fundamentally different much of the animosity and name-calling would cease.

I am one of the biggest EQ2 boosters around. I love the game. I have also been strident in my criticism over the years when they do bone-headed things. No one here has accused me of being in Sony's pocket, and aside from the noise generated by one poster in particular, no one has accused me of being a "hater".

Why? Because I attempt to address my comments from the notion that both sides are correct in this. They are.  As I stated in past posts, people will draw their own "line in the sand" over this issue, and belittling someone who has reached and refuses to follow across that line, or the one who happily steps over it, is futile and does nothing but generate hard feelings. The end result is that some people reading here will certainly be turned away from the game due to the rancor exhibited.

Name calling and personal attacks help no one, and simply serve to make the poster look foolish.

I hope that some of you will try to see the other side and stop poking one another over an issue that, in the end, is simply a personal choice.

Good luck with that.

 

That was the point of the post you got this quote from. The whole post was to point out we approach the game from different points of view. Neither one better then the other, just different. I was not sniping at anyone. If you were using that paragraph to suggest I was sniping you are using it totally out of context of the entire post. I have a bigger problem with that then being called addicted or complacent. Do not take a part of a long post out of context to say I am sniping. Nothing in my post is doing that. It is supporting your idea totally. 
 

We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it.

You left this part out didn't you?

Originally posted by eccoton

If you think of mmos as a game like a console game these changes will piss you off. Most of the people so angry about this probably view the eq2 experience in this way. So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.

In this thread alone I have been called a lot of things by those that do not like the idea. They can not understand that I can stay with a game that changes or has things I disagree with. Calling me complacent or addicted shows they are on a different wave length when it come s mmorpgs. You see it is simple I could careless what others have in the game I do not view mmos as a competition like a strategy or shooter game. I do not play the game for the rewards simply because I do not view items in mmos as rewards. Items are tools for me to enjoy the diversity of the persisten world. I avoid PvP type mmos because that is how the players interact in the world as if they are winning. This is fine and fun for many just not my play style.

I play these games for the experience of being in what I see as a living changing persisten world. That is the experience I expect to get for my money. EQ2 has offered this since release. Even with all the changes that core element has not changed. When the changes come I adapted my play style accordingly. If I can not do this I leave. What would make me leave is what SOE did to SWG. They change the core experience into one more like a console type game. It went from a living breathing world to a game. That is why I left, it had nothing to do with "lies" or changes I did not agree with. Mmos always change. WoTLK has tons of players saying they had enough and are leaving WOW. It does not matter how the developer presents the change, truthfully or "lies" some will leave if anything changes and spend time vilifying the developers, a lot of people simply hate change. I embrace change because that is life nothing stays the same. These games are meant to change and should change. Most who post here do not seem so angry about the changes but how the changes were announced or implemented into the game.

The changes SOE has made to EQ2 have actually help me enjoy the persistent world even more. This includes using a modest item mall. EQ2 offers a lot of choice in play style. Those that say these items in the mall are an excuse not to add content items you can get in game are simply making a weak argument.  EQ2 has more items to aquire then any mmo I have played (except pre-nge SWG). It would take you years if ever to get everything. There are 1000's of item. Now if EQ2 had about 100 items I could see this arguement a bit clearer. Has SOE lied well yes, it seem to suggest that, with the many post showing statement made by them. However I look at it less as some kind of lie or scam to trick their player base and more as a business changing its mind. SOE is really guilty of poor communication skills.

Now you can totally disagree with my above reasons but maybe if you change your thinking a bit you can see how this is not such a deal breaker for me. You may still not want to play EQ2 but you might not feel the need to label me as someone who does not get it or addicted. We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it.  The numerous changes in EQ2 some I agree with some I don't have not changed what EQ2 offers me. It offers a chance to explore and interact with a living breathing world. I been playing WOW since release it is a great game I love it. However it is more of a game to me. My avatar is just a vehicle to move around the game world. EQ2 seems alive to me. My avatars are like little people that have lives and personalities hence the rpg part of mmorpg. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 has changed that, in fact over the years it has become more of a living world. So the changes are not that big of a deal to me. We simply play the same game but get different expereinces from it. From your point of view this stuff is game breaking from mine they aren't. EQ2 is a masterpeice work of art for me even with a few cracks in the paint (cut me a bit of slack with that analogy after all I do teach art history. My students actually think it is pretty fun I wear my WOW cap on campus. I really want an EQ2 cap that might confuse them since I am know as that WOW professor. They do not know I am more into EQ2. To those that say I am addicted to EQ2 wrong in my real life people would more likely say I am addicted to WOW. I am not a EQ2 fanboi I play a lot of mmos by a lot of different developers). 

 

                      Hear Ye Hear Ye consumers of EQ2 a new and wonderous cap can be purchased at the magic Item Mall ... Be the very 1st to own your very own Smed Da Liar Cap this beatifully tailored Jughead Cap will be the envy of all your friends.. So hurry errrrr, i mean reallyy hurry ,ohh dam nevermind everyone has 1 now...

Originally posted by Scorchien

Originally posted by eccoton

If you think of mmos as a game like a console game these changes will piss you off. Most of the people so angry about this probably view the eq2 experience in this way. So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.

In this thread alone I have been called a lot of things by those that do not like the idea. They can not understand that I can stay with a game that changes or has things I disagree with. Calling me complacent or addicted shows they are on a different wave length when it come s mmorpgs. You see it is simple I could careless what others have in the game I do not view mmos as a competition like a strategy or shooter game. I do not play the game for the rewards simply because I do not view items in mmos as rewards. Items are tools for me to enjoy the diversity of the persisten world. I avoid PvP type mmos because that is how the players interact in the world as if they are winning. This is fine and fun for many just not my play style.

I play these games for the experience of being in what I see as a living changing persisten world. That is the experience I expect to get for my money. EQ2 has offered this since release. Even with all the changes that core element has not changed. When the changes come I adapted my play style accordingly. If I can not do this I leave. What would make me leave is what SOE did to SWG. They change the core experience into one more like a console type game. It went from a living breathing world to a game. That is why I left, it had nothing to do with "lies" or changes I did not agree with. Mmos always change. WoTLK has tons of players saying they had enough and are leaving WOW. It does not matter how the developer presents the change, truthfully or "lies" some will leave if anything changes and spend time vilifying the developers, a lot of people simply hate change. I embrace change because that is life nothing stays the same. These games are meant to change and should change. Most who post here do not seem so angry about the changes but how the changes were announced or implemented into the game.

The changes SOE has made to EQ2 have actually help me enjoy the persistent world even more. This includes using a modest item mall. EQ2 offers a lot of choice in play style. Those that say these items in the mall are an excuse not to add content items you can get in game are simply making a weak argument.  EQ2 has more items to aquire then any mmo I have played (except pre-nge SWG). It would take you years if ever to get everything. There are 1000's of item. Now if EQ2 had about 100 items I could see this arguement a bit clearer. Has SOE lied well yes, it seem to suggest that, with the many post showing statement made by them. However I look at it less as some kind of lie or scam to trick their player base and more as a business changing its mind. SOE is really guilty of poor communication skills.

Now you can totally disagree with my above reasons but maybe if you change your thinking a bit you can see how this is not such a deal breaker for me. You may still not want to play EQ2 but you might not feel the need to label me as someone who does not get it or addicted. We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it.  The numerous changes in EQ2 some I agree with some I don't have not changed what EQ2 offers me. It offers a chance to explore and interact with a living breathing world. I been playing WOW since release it is a great game I love it. However it is more of a game to me. My avatar is just a vehicle to move around the game world. EQ2 seems alive to me. My avatars are like little people that have lives and personalities hence the rpg part of mmorpg. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 has changed that, in fact over the years it has become more of a living world. So the changes are not that big of a deal to me. We simply play the same game but get different expereinces from it. From your point of view this stuff is game breaking from mine they aren't. EQ2 is a masterpeice work of art for me even with a few cracks in the paint (cut me a bit of slack with that analogy after all I do teach art history. My students actually think it is pretty fun I wear my WOW cap on campus. I really want an EQ2 cap that might confuse them since I am know as that WOW professor. They do not know I am more into EQ2. To those that say I am addicted to EQ2 wrong in my real life people would more likely say I am addicted to WOW. I am not a EQ2 fanboi I play a lot of mmos by a lot of different developers). 

 

 

                      Hear Ye Hear Ye consumers of EQ2 a new and wonderous cap can be purchased at the magic Item Mall ... Be the very 1st to own your very own Smed Da Liar Cap this beatifully tailored Jughead Cap will be the envy of all your friends.. So hurry errrrr, i mean reallyy hurry ,ohh dam nevermind everyone has 1 now...

Good shot at me funny.  
 

So ecco, where is the line drawn for you then?

I've heard just about every excuse, apology and rationale from multiple people around here including:

• The items are not powerful
• microtransactions are not RMT
• Closed systems are not RMT
• There are so many items it doesn't affect the game
• It is no big deal
• SOE needs the money to survive
• Games are going to be doing it in the future anyhow
• Every game is doing it already
• Some have even suggested it is the players fault 

Not one single excuse justifies how this is a positive change for the game.  You have developers creating content, the same developers that have been creating content all this time and adding it to the game for free.  Now they are doing the same exact job, but each of their creations now has a price tag on it.  That is fact. 

No matter how anyone tries to rationalize it, SOE now is withholding content from the players unless they cough up some more money.  We also know that SOE is debating what degree of items that are going to introduce from the Bruce Ferguson interview talking about armor and weapons coming to the store.  This proves they are willing to add more that just fluff items. 

The people who keep trying to downplay this seem to be unable to see that this change will come at the expense of some of their fellow players.  They were told in no uncertain terms that this type of thing would not happen.   This is a giant breach of trust and ethics, yet again, for people and they have effectively had their game altered by something they were told would never happen.   So far I have not seen one supporter of this idea acknowledge that this new feature they enjoy comes at the expense of other peoples gameplay experience and they will leave over this.  Time and time again I have heard their concerns downplayed, ridiculed and sometimes given an all to familiar "don't let the door hit you in the ass" comments from their fellow players.  

When is it to much for you and do you think SOE could possibly cross that line?   I am very curious what your answer might be to that. 

On a side note you have taken a bit of a personal beating here and shown very good character through it all.  I will admit that I keep addressing your personally when I really intended to be speaking about the general populous.  IE my claiming you should stand up once in a while should/was meant to be aimed at the EQ2 populous in general.  Likewise you have taken a few things to personally or a bit out of context, but not so much that it changes what has happened.  Again my apologies for treading the line and not paying attention in other cases where I should have been far more clear. 

While I disagree with most of what you have written, you have shown better manners than I am accustomed to finding in these forums and I hope to return the favor. 

I dont think you have taken things into consideration...

1. If Sony can sell more goods, they will make more goods (They will ramp up production to meet the demand).

2. SOE is now part of the gaming division (think PS3). This means that despite the fact that they have always been turning a profit, when the gamig division has been losing money left and right.... thier jobs are now on the line. So, if they can make thier games into cash cows, the PS3 can continue to lose money, and no one will get fired.

3. Business' go where the money is. So, if they can make more money, other companies will follow suite. You will see more competition, and then you will have alternatives.

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by Noktaris

I honestly don't see what people are whining about...you aren't required to use the marketplace. All it has it silly things like pots/casual clothes/house pets so on. Nothing that really impacts the game in any way. I got 5 years worth of vet pots that I rarely if ever touch.

It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.

It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.

Not again. What are you people broken records that you just repeat the same thing over and over and over? Stop whining until it actually happens instead of constantly freaking out. If you don't like it, then leave the goddamned game instead of annoying the crap out of the rest of us for no goddamned reason. Its called "maturity". We may have cared originally, we may have even sympathized, but the whining has gotten unreasonable and just plain annoying.

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by Noktaris

I honestly don't see what people are whining about...you aren't required to use the marketplace. All it has it silly things like pots/casual clothes/house pets so on. Nothing that really impacts the game in any way. I got 5 years worth of vet pots that I rarely if ever touch.

It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.

It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.

 

Not again. What are you people broken records that you just repeat the same thing over and over and over? Stop whining until it actually happens instead of constantly freaking out. If you don't like it, then leave the goddamned game instead of annoying the crap out of the rest of us for no goddamned reason. Its called "maturity". We may have cared originally, we may have even sympathized, but the whining has gotten unreasonable and just plain annoying.

Sweet sweet irony.

Originally posted by Daffid011

So ecco, where is the line drawn for you then?

I've heard just about every excuse, apology and rationale from multiple people around here including:

• The items are not powerful
• microtransactions are not RMT
• Closed systems are not RMT
• There are so many items it doesn't affect the game
• It is no big deal
• SOE needs the money to survive
• Games are going to be doing it in the future anyhow
• Every game is doing it already
• Some have even suggested it is the players fault 

 

Not one single excuse justifies how this is a positive change for the game.  You have developers creating content, the same developers that have been creating content all this time and adding it to the game for free.  Now they are doing the same exact job, but each of their creations now has a price tag on it.  That is fact. 

No matter how anyone tries to rationalize it, SOE now is withholding content from the players unless they cough up some more money.  We also know that SOE is debating what degree of items that are going to introduce from the Bruce Ferguson interview talking about armor and weapons coming to the store.  This proves they are willing to add more that just fluff items. 

 

The people who keep trying to downplay this seem to be unable to see that this change will come at the expense of some of their fellow players.  They were told in no uncertain terms that this type of thing would not happen.   This is a giant breach of trust and ethics, yet again, for people and they have effectively had their game altered by something they were told would never happen.   So far I have not seen one supporter of this idea acknowledge that this new feature they enjoy comes at the expense of other peoples gameplay experience and they will leave over this.  Time and time again I have heard their concerns downplayed, ridiculed and sometimes given an all to familiar "don't let the door hit you in the ass" comments from their fellow players.  

 

When is it to much for you and do you think SOE could possibly cross that line?   I am very curious what your answer might be to that. 

 

 

 

 

---

On a side note you have taken a bit of a personal beating here and shown very good character through it all.  I will admit that I keep addressing your personally when I really intended to be speaking about the general populous.  IE my claiming you should stand up once in a while should/was meant to be aimed at the EQ2 populous in general.  Likewise you have taken a few things to personally or a bit out of context, but not so much that it changes what has happened.  Again my apologies for treading the line and not paying attention in other cases where I should have been far more clear. 

While I disagree with most of what you have written, you have shown better manners than I am accustomed to finding in these forums and I hope to return the favor. 

No excuses here. I don't care about it. Armor and weapons? Are you sure they won't be something similar to the faction armor and weapons we already have, just cooler looking? If you draw the line here, then quit and get on with your life.

So Smedley "lied?" To lie implies that he knew all along that they were going to implement a cash shop, but for all we know circumstances within the company may have made his past statement irrelevant. It isn't personal, folks, happens all the time (intended lies or not) in business. Doesn't make it ok, but don't act so surprised given that the government (of any country) sets the trend.

I hear a lot of "the sky is falling" posts about this that it is quite honestly pathetic. Quit already, and by this I mean really quit, not threaten to do so and be back in a week to complain about something else. Not saying anyone here does that, they are abundant on the official forums. Until game breaking items are added to the cash shop, its nothing to waste time griping over for me, personally.

Originally posted by Daffid011

So ecco, where is the line drawn for you then?

I've heard just about every excuse, apology and rationale from multiple people around here including:

• The items are not powerful
• microtransactions are not RMT
• Closed systems are not RMT
• There are so many items it doesn't affect the game
• It is no big deal
• SOE needs the money to survive
• Games are going to be doing it in the future anyhow
• Every game is doing it already
• Some have even suggested it is the players fault 

 

Not one single excuse justifies how this is a positive change for the game.  You have developers creating content, the same developers that have been creating content all this time and adding it to the game for free.  Now they are doing the same exact job, but each of their creations now has a price tag on it.  That is fact. 

No matter how anyone tries to rationalize it, SOE now is withholding content from the players unless they cough up some more money.  We also know that SOE is debating what degree of items that are going to introduce from the Bruce Ferguson interview talking about armor and weapons coming to the store.  This proves they are willing to add more that just fluff items. 

 

The people who keep trying to downplay this seem to be unable to see that this change will come at the expense of some of their fellow players.  They were told in no uncertain terms that this type of thing would not happen.   This is a giant breach of trust and ethics, yet again, for people and they have effectively had their game altered by something they were told would never happen.   So far I have not seen one supporter of this idea acknowledge that this new feature they enjoy comes at the expense of other peoples gameplay experience and they will leave over this.  Time and time again I have heard their concerns downplayed, ridiculed and sometimes given an all to familiar "don't let the door hit you in the ass" comments from their fellow players.  

 

When is it to much for you and do you think SOE could possibly cross that line?   I am very curious what your answer might be to that. 

 

 

 

 

---

On a side note you have taken a bit of a personal beating here and shown very good character through it all.  I will admit that I keep addressing your personally when I really intended to be speaking about the general populous.  IE my claiming you should stand up once in a while should/was meant to be aimed at the EQ2 populous in general.  Likewise you have taken a few things to personally or a bit out of context, but not so much that it changes what has happened.  Again my apologies for treading the line and not paying attention in other cases where I should have been far more clear. 

While I disagree with most of what you have written, you have shown better manners than I am accustomed to finding in these forums and I hope to return the favor. 

Now that is a good question and a hard one to answer for others to understand but easy for me to understand. Like I said I view mmos as entertainement and for me it is also about the persistent world experience I am having. That not only includes gameplay but graphics, art direction, sound design, game performance, reliability, unique story, and more. That is what I come for and pay for. I also do not play pvp. Those to things are important in how I judge things. So even if SOE put in items that had stats you could buy I probably would not leave. If they fundamentally change the experience I was paying for, the only real example I have would be the NGE thing, I would leave.

To understand this you have to accept I am genuine in saying that SOE except with NGE has given me my moneys worth.  With NGE I simply left. That is why I give no excuses. Some of those things you mention I said and I view them as (arguably perhaps) facts about the direction of mmos. They were not excuses because I do not find this a problem. I simply do not feel SOE has scammed me. Others can give me their resasons for leaving or the line they would not cross but those are not mine. They can post quotes Smed or SOE has said, I have read them all. I am as informed and maybe more so then some who post here I simply do not see red horns on Smed's head.

Make EQ2 a first person shooter or a strategy game I would leave. Raise the manditory monthly fee to 25 buck I would leave. Put in a helmet that some one could buy with a str buff I would not leave. I hope that answers your question. You and I will never agree on this since you view it as hurting the game and I do not.

Yet another post I agree with ecco on because I feel the exact same way. Though I have to be honest and say that if Knights of the Republic or Star Trek Online are good games, I MAY go play them for a while (Knights of the Old Republic is my favorite game). I likely will come back to EQ2 though. I usually do.

Ecco, thanks for answering.  It was a great read and you hit most of the points we both made and agree to disagree on some things.  Others we are closer to agreement than it appears due to the different sides of the fence we sit on. 

That being said, your reply the one above it and the one directly below it still do something I've seen often in SOE forums.  That is ignoring what is happening to your fellow players by turning blind eyes and in some cases telling people to STFU and leave.   There is something so disfunctional in a community when the knee jerk reaction is telling people to leave.    

SOE has been doing this for years to the community.  They are chasing your fellow players away one segment at a time with this type of behavior.  That is why the forums are littered with people who get so upset at this company.  Why the games do so poorly in the market.  Why things are so rushed out or unfinished.  These are all the results of those decisions that the faithful fans have little issue with and it just empowers the cycle to continue.  Regardless of if people accept the changes or ignore them it is pretty hard to deny that there are plenty of reasons for people to be upset by this.  Very valid reasons. 

It is times like this when I really have to scratch my head as people start topics in this forum like "why doesn't EQ2 attract more people".  

Originally posted by Daffid011

Ecco, thanks for answering.  It was a great read and you hit most of the points we both made and agree to disagree on some things.  Others we are closer to agreement than it appears due to the different sides of the fence we sit on. 

 

That being said, your reply the one above it and the one directly below it still do something I've seen often in SOE forums.  That is ignoring what is happening to your fellow players by turning blind eyes and in some cases telling people to STFU and leave.   There is something so disfunctional in a community when the knee jerk reaction is telling people to leave.    

 

SOE has been doing this for years to the community.  They are chasing your fellow players away one segment at a time with this type of behavior.  That is why the forums are littered with people who get so upset at this company.  Why the games do so poorly in the market.  Why things are so rushed out or unfinished.  These are all the results of those decisions that the faithful fans have little issue with and it just empowers the cycle to continue.  Regardless of if people accept the changes or ignore them it is pretty hard to deny that there are plenty of reasons for people to be upset by this.  Very valid reasons. 

 

It is times like this when I really have to scratch my head as people start topics in this forum like "why doesn't EQ2 attract more people".  

On the contrary, nothing in my post indicated "shut up and leave." It was referring to those that use their claims of quitting as some kind of weapon against SOE on the forums. Nothing is wrong with having a problem, or offering ways and suggestions to limit damage or change it all together. It is simply aimed at the drama queens and kings I see on the official forums. I didn't mean you as in you specifically, but I should have edited it. It isn't something I see worth complaining about. Like ecoo, my line is drawn elsewhere.
 

I did not think I was coming off as caustic, but if I was I apologize. But I do resent the implication that I "ignore what is happening." I am well aware what is happening, thank you, but my response stays the same. Until it is damaging, I personally, don't feel the need to start hailing fire and brimstone on SOE and Smedley.

Originally posted by boognish75

the xp pots in station cash are crap, you get better ones in the vetrean rewards, nothing in station cash effects the game play, at all, soe is trying to recover some revenue in the failing economy, they just laid off 8000 people, i would rather have em sell worthless junk that doesnt effect the game at all to idiots who will buy it instead of closing down eq2 which is my favorite fantasy mmo.

exactly how I feel about it

Originally posted by Arataki

Originally posted by Daffid011

Ecco, thanks for answering.  It was a great read and you hit most of the points we both made and agree to disagree on some things.  Others we are closer to agreement than it appears due to the different sides of the fence we sit on. 

 

That being said, your reply the one above it and the one directly below it still do something I've seen often in SOE forums.  That is ignoring what is happening to your fellow players by turning blind eyes and in some cases telling people to STFU and leave.   There is something so disfunctional in a community when the knee jerk reaction is telling people to leave.    

 

SOE has been doing this for years to the community.  They are chasing your fellow players away one segment at a time with this type of behavior.  That is why the forums are littered with people who get so upset at this company.  Why the games do so poorly in the market.  Why things are so rushed out or unfinished.  These are all the results of those decisions that the faithful fans have little issue with and it just empowers the cycle to continue.  Regardless of if people accept the changes or ignore them it is pretty hard to deny that there are plenty of reasons for people to be upset by this.  Very valid reasons. 

 

It is times like this when I really have to scratch my head as people start topics in this forum like "why doesn't EQ2 attract more people".  

On the contrary, nothing in my post indicated "shut up and leave." It was referring to those that use their claims of quitting as some kind of weapon against SOE on the forums. Nothing is wrong with having a problem, or offering ways and suggestions to limit damage or change it all together. It is simply aimed at the drama queens and kings I see on the official forums. I didn't mean you as in you specifically, but I should have edited it. It isn't something I see worth complaining about. Like ecoo, my line is drawn elsewhere.
 

I did not think I was coming off as caustic, but if I was I apologize. But I do resent the implication that I "ignore what is happening." I am well aware what is happening, thank you, but my response stays the same. Until it is damaging, I personally, don't feel the need to start hailing fire and brimstone on SOE and Smedley.

Here is my take on it. I own and pay 4 accounts of EQ2 for myself and family. I also have 2 other family members that play also, which they bought the expansion. Had I known now that they were going to do this, I would have never bought anything, canceled my accounts and we all would have gone to another game.

They knew about this way in advanced.
 

It's difficult to complain about the fire when your hands smell of gasoline.

This, too, shall pass.