the question isnt whether we should want a good game or not (who wouldn't?)

the question is whether people should support buying the game (whether or not the game is good)

the general concensus is that there isn't enough information available atm to declare Darkfall a goodgame (IMHO that is a correct assessment)

if a company isn't going to release enough reviews.. basically showing proof that they have what they promise.. then its possible they are misleading or possibly holding in letting the game speak for itself once its out

while I would like to say "we will see", it doesn't escape my fear-dar that they could delay again

Originally posted by Sabradin

the question isnt whether we should want a good game or not (who wouldn't?)

the question is whether people should support buying the game (whether or not the game is good)

the general concensus is that there isn't enough information available atm to declare Darkfall a goodgame (IMHO that is a correct assessment)

if a company isn't going to release enough reviews.. basically showing proof that they have what they promise.. then its possible they are misleading or possibly holding in letting the game speak for itself once its out

while I would like to say "we will see", it doesn't escape my fear-dar that they could delay again

so . . . . blame the game review companies?

By the way . . . read a (p)review at mmorpg.it  ;)

Originally posted by -aLpHa-

I won't cheer for Darkfall, it seems those kind of games breed a special kind of fanboy, extremely persistent and annoying.

Oh piss off, the only reason the fans are like that is because this game is the only sandbox that's nearing release.

Produce a hundred sandboxes, and the fans of the next theme-park will be as persistent and annoying as this group here.

Originally posted by Shadowoak

Originally posted by -aLpHa-

I won't cheer for Darkfall, it seems those kind of games breed a special kind of fanboy, extremely persistent and annoying.

 

Oh piss off, the only reason the fans are like that is because this game is the only sandbox that's nearing release.

 

Produce a hundred sandboxes, and the fans of the next theme-park will be as persistent and annoying as this group here.

when did UO and eve stop being sandboxes?

They never stopped being sandboxes.... lol its just some ppl dont know what it means or have only a vague impression of what it means... so they need too learn ENGLISH before they should give there opinions.

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by Kordesh

 You cheer for vapourware crap, and people begin to pump out vapourware crap. I'd rather see a few more WoW clones and hope for someone else to try again than have a whole list of overly cocky developers boast about a game that won't see the light of day for 8+ years and then produce absolute tripe, if anything at all.

 

Awsome. 

btw 5 years and are you seriously suggesting studios make more wow clones than try and break the mold?

good lord man these people are trying to bring us a new game that is not a clone?  what do you have against them?  what did they do to you?  and if you say broke their promises of beta then you should probably take a good long look at yourself.

LOL at still calling this game vaporware.

IF it gets released in 2009, then 2001-2009 is NOT 5 years.  i also do not believe vaporware means what you think it means.  even if the game would be released in 2009, it would still, by definition, BE vaporware.  ignorance of a term does not change the definition of said term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

aside from what the devs did/did not do; the fanboys have had a hand in turning people against the thought of darkfall.  especially with the rampant spamming of DF silliness across many forums at many sites.

if the game ever does get released, and perhaps an updated listing of features be put on the official website, so that everyone know what TO expect... well, i guess we'll see at that point.  a game that's a first for a crew that's never made any games prior... combined with virtually non-existant testing OR information about the game... yeah, it doesn't sound good from the point of view of someone that's watched many games come and go (gods-n-heroes anyone?)

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by Kordesh

 You cheer for vapourware crap, and people begin to pump out vapourware crap. I'd rather see a few more WoW clones and hope for someone else to try again than have a whole list of overly cocky developers boast about a game that won't see the light of day for 8+ years and then produce absolute tripe, if anything at all.

Awsome. 

btw 5 years and are you seriously suggesting studios make more wow clones than try and break the mold?

good lord man these people are trying to bring us a new game that is not a clone?  what do you have against them?  what did they do to you?  and if you say broke their promises of beta then you should probably take a good long look at yourself.

LOL at still calling this game vaporware.

 

IF it gets released in 2009, then 2001-2009 is NOT 5 years.  i also do not believe vaporware means what you think it means.  even if the game would be released in 2009, it would still, by definition, BE vaporware.  ignorance of a term does not change the definition of said term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

from your own link:

"Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware."

man i love a self-pwning in the morning.

As a side-note: it is pretty stupid to be trying to slander Darkfall as vapourware at this point...

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Shadowoak

Originally posted by -aLpHa-

I won't cheer for Darkfall, it seems those kind of games breed a special kind of fanboy, extremely persistent and annoying.

 

Oh piss off, the only reason the fans are like that is because this game is the only sandbox that's nearing release.

 

Produce a hundred sandboxes, and the fans of the next theme-park will be as persistent and annoying as this group here.

 

when did UO and eve stop being sandboxes?

Sooo, 2 games out of a gazillion

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by Kordesh

 You cheer for vapourware crap, and people begin to pump out vapourware crap. I'd rather see a few more WoW clones and hope for someone else to try again than have a whole list of overly cocky developers boast about a game that won't see the light of day for 8+ years and then produce absolute tripe, if anything at all.

 

Awsome. 

btw 5 years and are you seriously suggesting studios make more wow clones than try and break the mold?

good lord man these people are trying to bring us a new game that is not a clone?  what do you have against them?  what did they do to you?  and if you say broke their promises of beta then you should probably take a good long look at yourself.

LOL at still calling this game vaporware.

 

IF it gets released in 2009, then 2001-2009 is NOT 5 years.  i also do not believe vaporware means what you think it means.  even if the game would be released in 2009, it would still, by definition, BE vaporware.  ignorance of a term does not change the definition of said term.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

 

aside from what the devs did/did not do; the fanboys have had a hand in turning people against the thought of darkfall.  especially with the rampant spamming of DF silliness across many forums at many sites.

 

if the game ever does get released, and perhaps an updated listing of features be put on the official website, so that everyone know what TO expect... well, i guess we'll see at that point.  a game that's a first for a crew that's never made any games prior... combined with virtually non-existant testing OR information about the game...

[read the damn stickies before post]

yeah, it doesn't sound good from the point of view of someone that's watched many games come and go (gods-n-heroes anyone?)

You don't seem me like someone who would fit into the community, DF requires a lot  of digging for information on your own and you even fail to find the stickies here .

I am glad if you don#t find your way in

kkthxbye

ah nice a vaporware  post  again..

With a somewhat "creative" definition of vaporware. 

"Even with the game releases it will still be vaporware"..intresting. Visited the linked source and didn't found that line..

Originally posted by icyred

... so they need too learn ENGLISH before they should give there opinions.

Unless that was intended as sarcasm, you might wanna take a bit of your own advice there, Skippy.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Abrahmm is exactly right.  Whether you're into Darkfall or not, if you are a real MMO gamer, you should want this game to succeed.

You're missing the point entirely. It's not about Darkfall. It's about you knuckleheads all too frequently tossing around comments such as: "if you are a serious gamer". What the hell does that even mean?

The irony of Abrahmm's post was despite trying to appeal to "everyone" to "cheer" for this game, he couldn't resist taking a shot at games he didn't care for... and in turn the fans that enjoy them. And you're not doing a heck of a lot better.

Do you fail to see how negative, elitist crap like that only serves to push games like Darkfall further into a niche? You're shooting yourselves in the foot.

Originally posted by icyred

They never stopped being sandboxes.... lol its just some ppl dont know what it means or have only a vague impression of what it means... so they need too learn ENGLISH before they should give there opinions.

There seems to be no generally accepted definition on these forums of what a "sandbox" game is, or what features it must have to be a sandbox.

If everyone on the MMORPG.com forum listed the features they think must be included in a "sandbox" game, there would be at least a 100 or more different lists.

Some people seem to concentrate on the character, and some people on the world. Can you make a sandbox game with classes? Some people say absolutely not, some people say yes if you can change the game world.

Some people think a sandbox requires PVP, others don't think so.

Second LIfe is the ultimate sandbox, and it has none of those things at all, except the ability to change the game world.

Ultimately what seems to matter is the features you think will make a game fun. Whether or not that makes the game a "sandbox" is unimportant.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Abrahmm is exactly right.  Whether you're into Darkfall or not, if you are a real MMO gamer, you should want this game to succeed.

 

You're missing the point entirely. It's not about Darkfall. It's about you knuckleheads all too frequently tossing around comments such as: "if you are a serious gamer". What the hell does that even mean?

The irony of Abrahmm's post was despite trying to appeal to "everyone" to "cheer" for this game, he couldn't resist taking a shot at games he didn't care for... and in turn the fans that enjoy them. And you're not doing a heck of a lot better.

Do you fail to see how negative, elitist crap like that only serves to push games like Darkfall further into a niche? You're shooting yourselves in the foot.

 

So much anger.  Im not sure what game you are trying to defend, but chances are it is one deserving of some of its critiques as a lot of the current games on the market are very very very easymode.

Also wanted to bump because it goes along with Paragus' blog and if he hasnt read it yet would be a good read for him.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Abrahmm is exactly right.  Whether you're into Darkfall or not, if you are a real MMO gamer, you should want this game to succeed.

 

You're missing the point entirely. It's not about Darkfall. It's about you knuckleheads all too frequently tossing around comments such as: "if you are a serious gamer". What the hell does that even mean?

The irony of Abrahmm's post was despite trying to appeal to "everyone" to "cheer" for this game, he couldn't resist taking a shot at games he didn't care for... and in turn the fans that enjoy them. And you're not doing a heck of a lot better.

Do you fail to see how negative, elitist crap like that only serves to push games like Darkfall further into a niche? You're shooting yourselves in the foot.

 

I agree with Han on this one.  All too often the praise for this game or retorts against skeptics/trolls/whatever you want to call them, take the form of pretentious comments and elitist attitudes. 

The bulk of OP's posts contain this attitude, attempting to deify the "thinking man's" game as the holy grail reserved for only those most enlightened enough appreciate it. 

I'm sure people will put up with the elitism and condescending attitudes for a little while; though eventually they will likely quit because it will cease to be fun when the community becomes a viper pit. 

*EDIT* - for those who love to ask for citations/links for my opinions, this isn't a dissertation.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Abrahmm is exactly right.  Whether you're into Darkfall or not, if you are a real MMO gamer, you should want this game to succeed.

 You're missing the point entirely. It's not about Darkfall. It's about you knuckleheads all too frequently tossing around comments such as: "if you are a serious gamer". What the hell does that even mean?

The irony of Abrahmm's post was despite trying to appeal to "everyone" to "cheer" for this game, he couldn't resist taking a shot at games he didn't care for... and in turn the fans that enjoy them. And you're not doing a heck of a lot better.

Do you fail to see how negative, elitist crap like that only serves to push games like Darkfall further into a niche? You're shooting yourselves in the foot.

We can't both be missing the point entirely.  I think it's you who are.  Because you say it's about the "knuckleheads" who are cheering for this game and Abrahmm says it's about the future of gaming.  If you want to start a thread about how you hope Darkfall is a success just so the "knuckleheads" will shut-up, then you should have done so rather than use Abrahmm thread to take a shot at gamers who are looking forward to it.

I don't think anyone is being elitist here.  Have you read many of the threads in the Pub section?  Have you seen all the posts about all the gamers who are upset with the current state of MMOs?  All the people that are about to or have already kissed the genre good-bye?  It's because most games today are so shallow and superficial.  They have become so routine and predictable that they become boring fast.  And I think the subscription data supports that.  So many people want a good game, they are willing to go out and buy each new one that is released.  After a couple weeks or even days, they get bored or disappointed and quit playing.  And you see the subscription numbers drop dramatically.  All we're asking for is a game that holds our interest for more than just a couple months.  One where immersion really exists.  I mean, if you are happy with the current crop of games, you have no complaints.  Why you have to come on here and criticize those who want something else seems somewhat petty to me.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

We can't both be missing the point entirely.  I think it's you who are.  Because you say it's about the "knuckleheads" who are cheering for this game and Abrahmm says it's about the future of gaming.  If you want to start a thread about how you hope Darkfall is a success just so the "knuckleheads" will shut-up, then you should have done so rather than use Abrahmm thread to take a shot at gamers who are looking forward to it.

I don't think anyone is being elitist here.  Have you read many of the threads in the Pub section?  Have you seen all the posts about all the gamers who are upset with the current state of MMOs?  All the people that are about to or have already kissed the genre good-bye?  It's because most games today are so shallow and superficial.  They have become so routine and predictable that they become boring fast.  And I think the subscription data supports that.  So many people want a good game, they are willing to go out and buy each new one that is released.  After a couple weeks or even days, they get bored or disappointed and quit playing.  And you see the subscription numbers drop dramatically.  All we're asking for is a game that holds our interest for more than just a couple months.  One where immersion really exists.  I mean, if you are happy with the current crop of games, you have no complaints.  Why you have to come on here and criticize those who want something else seems somewhat petty to me.

I'm still waiting to hear what a "serious gamer" or "real" MMO gamer is.

Originally posted by damian7

 IF it gets released in 2009, then 2001-2009 is NOT 5 years.  i also do not believe vaporware means what you think it means.  even if the game would be released in 2009, it would still, by definition, BE vaporware.  ignorance of a term does not change the definition of said term.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

 

aside from what the devs did/did not do; the fanboys have had a hand in turning people against the thought of darkfall.  especially with the rampant spamming of DF silliness across many forums at many sites.

 

if the game ever does get released, and perhaps an updated listing of features be put on the official website, so that everyone know what TO expect... well, i guess we'll see at that point.  a game that's a first for a crew that's never made any games prior... combined with virtually non-existant testing OR information about the game... yeah, it doesn't sound good from the point of view of someone that's watched many games come and go (gods-n-heroes anyone?)

Gotta love when people use a reference for the word "vaporware"...Yet fail to realize just how stupid the word is.

Can we all just stop using the term, and refer to this game as "Incomplete"?  It really doesn't sound quite as moronic.

Originally posted by Soundbyte

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by Kordesh

 You cheer for vapourware crap, and people begin to pump out vapourware crap. I'd rather see a few more WoW clones and hope for someone else to try again than have a whole list of overly cocky developers boast about a game that won't see the light of day for 8+ years and then produce absolute tripe, if anything at all.

Awsome. 

btw 5 years and are you seriously suggesting studios make more wow clones than try and break the mold?

good lord man these people are trying to bring us a new game that is not a clone?  what do you have against them?  what did they do to you?  and if you say broke their promises of beta then you should probably take a good long look at yourself.

LOL at still calling this game vaporware.

 

IF it gets released in 2009, then 2001-2009 is NOT 5 years.  i also do not believe vaporware means what you think it means.  even if the game would be released in 2009, it would still, by definition, BE vaporware.  ignorance of a term does not change the definition of said term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

from your own link:

"Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware."

 

man i love a self-pwning in the morning.

 

As a side-note: it is pretty stupid to be trying to slander Darkfall as vapourware at this point...

lol this.  damian just wont man up and drop it...its a beautiful combination of sadness and laughter. 

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Abrahmm is exactly right.  Whether you're into Darkfall or not, if you are a real MMO gamer, you should want this game to succeed.

 You're missing the point entirely. It's not about Darkfall. It's about you knuckleheads all too frequently tossing around comments such as: "if you are a serious gamer". What the hell does that even mean?

The irony of Abrahmm's post was despite trying to appeal to "everyone" to "cheer" for this game, he couldn't resist taking a shot at games he didn't care for... and in turn the fans that enjoy them. And you're not doing a heck of a lot better.

Do you fail to see how negative, elitist crap like that only serves to push games like Darkfall further into a niche? You're shooting yourselves in the foot.

 

We can't both be missing the point entirely.  I think it's you who are.  Because you say it's about the "knuckleheads" who are cheering for this game and Abrahmm says it's about the future of gaming.  If you want to start a thread about how you hope Darkfall is a success just so the "knuckleheads" will shut-up, then you should have done so rather than use Abrahmm thread to take a shot at gamers who are looking forward to it.

I don't think anyone is being elitist here.  Have you read many of the threads in the Pub section?  Have you seen all the posts about all the gamers who are upset with the current state of MMOs?  All the people that are about to or have already kissed the genre good-bye?  It's because most games today are so shallow and superficial.  They have become so routine and predictable that they become boring fast.  And I think the subscription data supports that.  So many people want a good game, they are willing to go out and buy each new one that is released.  After a couple weeks or even days, they get bored or disappointed and quit playing.  And you see the subscription numbers drop dramatically.  All we're asking for is a game that holds our interest for more than just a couple months.  One where immersion really exists.  I mean, if you are happy with the current crop of games, you have no complaints.  Why you have to come on here and criticize those who want something else seems somewhat petty to me.

I don't think the post is arguing the validity of current gamers' satisfaction with the mmo industry. To borrow an over-used line from this forum section; you are using a Straw Man argument - introducing a new argument and arguing against that instead of the OP.  You basically changed the subject and argued about something that wasn't disagreed upon.
 

The post is addressing the issue of "knuckleheads" and the way in which they treat others. You do so even in your post, "a real MMO gamer".  What is that?  If someone is satisfied with WoW, as a small number of people seem to be, then they are not a "real MMO gamer"?  What would they be then?  Surely not a gamer such as yourself?

That is the attitude that is being addressed.  That and the fact that it tends to alienate people, which if you are "a real mmo gamer" then you would want the game to succeed; can't do that when people are leaving because of poor community.  People leaving, company losing $$$ etc. etc..

Doubtful this will actually get anywhere, but I'm off work now and I might check back in on this thread tomorrow.

I don't see this as a sandbox vs themepark issue at all.

It's about gamers writing games again, rather than executives basing games on pleasing as much of a focus group as possible.

It in no way detracts from the market leader, vanilla type games. But it gives people with different  tastes the chance of date, cinnamon and honey ice cream....mmmmm....ice cream....

Even if I don't like DF once play it I want it to do well. It's just so refreshing to hear a Dev talk about trying something new :)