Originally posted by Superman0X

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by Superman0X

I am going to guess that most of the people in this thread have had thier head in the sand for the last few years, and have not hear of 'free to play' or microtransaction based games.

What SOE is doing is taking a page out of thier book.. and getting the best of both worlds. They are charging a monthly fee, and making microtransacton based sales. If you looked at the rest of the games that SOE is putting out (FreeRealms, TheAgency, DC Universe) they are all targetted at the free to play market. This might be considered market research on a hybrid system.

Producers (i.e. SOE) provide marketing, support, and operations for a game. Thier goal is to maximize the revenue for the life of the game. If anyone cares to look, you would find that SOE has been making a strong and steady income, even when the rest of Sony is not. You may not like thier methods, but they do thier job, and make the money.

Some of you may have also noticed that SOE was rolled into the console gaming group... not so that the console gaming group could help SOE, but so that SOE could help the console group. The three games that I have mentioned are also planned for both PS3 and PC launch...

So the reality is that Sony, who has bet the company on the PS3, has come to SOE to help make sure that they get the returns on this product that are needed to keep Sony alive, and well. You figure it out.

That may be true, but the fact is people who play swg (and the other soe station pass games) already pay a monthly fee. 

 

There is no rule excluding microtransaction sales in ADDITION to a monthly fee... in fact, even blizzard is exploring this combination with its latest expansion.

This is simply incorrect on a number of levels.  First of all, you talk as if people are purchasing RMT items, like they do in free-to-play games.  They are not purchasing them in SWG, they are paying real money in a game of chance.  They pay only for the chance to win something.
 

According to the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, it is in fact illegal to run a game of chance in an online video game that is not free-to-play.

People keep making comparisons to "free-to-play" games.  These are invalid.  People then keep making comparisons to RMT games where you purchase items.  These are also invalid.  SOE is doing none of the above.  They are running an online game of chance for real cash in a fee for service online game. 

To address a specific quote above, there is in fact a rule (law even) against running a microtransaction lottery in a subscription based game.  Either you don't really know the difference, or you seem to be pretending there is no difference, when quite clearly, there is.

Originally posted by Superman0X 

 

SOE hasnt posted losses (despite what people seem to think), in fact, they are one of the few parts of Sony that has reliably made money. You are correct that moving them from Sony Pictures to the PS3 is to prop up the PS3, but it is also because they have the skill base and experience needed to make this successful.

I would expect that they will be critical in making the PS3 platform successful, and as a result, profitable.

 

The expertise and skill needed to make what successful?  SOE once had over a million subscriptions spread across all of their titles.  How many do you think they have now?  Maybe 1/4 of that is they are lucky.  Think about this for a second, the former giant of the MMO industry is now struggling to even compare to independent studios. 

Sony is in big trouble if they have to use SOE as some sort of positive element in comparison to another division.  No one is considered reliable when their market share is drastically shrinking every year the way SOE is.  SOE got moved to a new division, because someone wants to turn SOE around or else scrap it and fold it into something that has long term potential.

I can honestly say that nothing SOE has done could realisitaclly translate into coroporate success, let alone something large enough for them to be moved to boost the bottom line of a much larger division.  Maybe SOE was successful in 2004, but I doubt it is anything even close to that reality today.

Originally posted by Gutboy

Why would the TCG cost the company sub's? You still get 5 free booster packs per month for a free shot at any new loot. The new loot does not give any advantage to a player over another, it's all bling.

For those who think the new beast master "barn" is an advantage, all it does is give the BM the ability to offload up to 40 pets and have them run around in the building. There is no advantage to crafting or mutation from the building.

For someone who want's the new bling "now" they can also trade ingame credits to someone selling a loot card.

I look at the loot card situation as the same as buying passage on a cruise ship, if you want to pay $999.00 for a inside cabin you can if you want to spend $3500.00 for a suite and get better room service, and other stuff then pay for it. You get what you pay for,

 

"Why would the TCG cost the company subs?".....

Example: When four new vehicles were intorduced into SWG:NGE, they weren't introduced as schematics for Engineers to use to make the new vehicles....they were introduced as TCG Loot. TRUST ME that pissed off Players whose mains were Engineers, as well as many others. Players that love crafting have repeatedly lost out on new schematics, new game play and enjoyment, and the community of NGE has lost out in Player interaction due to the TCG Loot. Sure the TCG has added new dimensions to SWG:NGE, but at the cost of dimensions of the game that Players had already invested thousands of hours in already.

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Originally posted by Divious

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Of course, you still don't know the odds, and they could be manipulated at any time outside of your awareness.

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Bingo

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Originally posted by Superman0X

SOE hasnt posted losses (despite what people seem to think), in fact, they are one of the few parts of Sony that has reliably made money. You are correct that moving them from Sony Pictures to the PS3 is to prop up the PS3, but it is also because they have the skill base and experience needed to make this successful.
I would expect that they will be critical in making the PS3 platform successful, and as a result, profitable.

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Originally posted by raizzeen

Originally posted by Ginaz

Anyone who doesn't like the way the card game is being done should just stfu and leave.  Stop being so negative.  Its soe's game, they can do whatever they want.  Move on.  No one wants to here you complain.  Let the people who are playing the game enjoy it.  etc. etc. etc.

Does that sound familiar to anyone?  I hope every major new item is released as loot through the card game.

 

 

 

the only one whining about the card game are the ones who spendt 200 dollars on them and didnt get a loot card and they come here to get attention and to whine cause simply there stupid

Just to clarify raizzeen, not all of us "whiners" about the TCG spent money on it. 

I for one have never purchased any of the TCG packs, NOR did I even /claim the ones I received as a part of my monthly subscription. Frankly I was not fully aware of exactly what the TCG was until I did some reading on it, then I was furious. I should have checked it out when I resub'd for the first time in about two years....but I was happy to be back in the SWG universe, and wanted to see what had changed and how much.

I am "complaining" about this because the TCG is NOT the game I subscribed to play. The TCG is a game until itself, and is in fact a form of internet gambling. If you like that sort of thing, then fine...have fun with it. I however do not, and when I agreed to play SWG:NGE it was for SWG:NGE, not for a "additional" content that I did not approve of when I agreed to the EULA. I also believe the TCG's inclusion into SWG:NGE is illegal, and I wouldn't be surprised if a future court decision finds that LA and SOE are guilty of something (I won't speculate as to what the charges will be). Time will tell.

But of course, if a Player resubscribes NOW to the SWG:NGE, you are in fact also agreeing to join/resub for the TCG.

I won't be party to illegal internet gambling ever. SOE has lost all future hope of ever gaining me back as a customer no matter how much they may do in the future to correct thier behavior towards the Players/Customers, no matter how much they ask for forgivenenss, and no matter even if they create the greatest online game sometime in the future.

They never learn.

I'm sure when this is over they will lamet the "lack of communication that they will resolve to improve upon in the future".  For about the thirtieth time they've said that.

First official response:

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Valara
Community Manager
Joined: May 10, 2007
Messages: 3452
Online
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VincerKaden wrote:

By creating these arbitrary rules that govern when and where the terms TCG, NGE, and the like can be posted, SOE manages to further divide the community who feels compelled to police their own forums in lieu of any real authority
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We have been trying to message clearly since the TCG launched that for feedback about the TCG in general and game play, please use the TCG official forums; for feedback about in-game loot (and recently the in-game messaging), that is SWG Game Play, so it remains in this forum. This rule is not arbitrary and was not created recently. This should be evidenced by the number of loot-related threads here in this forum.

As jedimonkeylizard mentioned, as long as the feedback is constructive, the discussion thread will remain open.

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And we all know to SOE, constructive=kiss our asses and not complain.

SOE doesn't care if the players don't like their game.  This has been made abundantly clear and no hell raising, rampant posting, petitions, etc. will change SOE.  They told the vets to go suck it, and now if the NGE players revolt they will be told to suck it too.

NGE players were warned about SOE's unethical behavior.  This reminds me of someone who dates a violent person and then is suprised when they get hit.  People never think it will happen to them.  But it does...because karma is a boomarang and it always comes back to you.

Of course they will tell them to "suck it".  There are reports of morons paying $100-$200 on these things to get them.  A handful doing that is a lot more valueable to SOE than a lot of subscribers who are RMT refuseniks.

Originally posted by salvaje

Of course they will tell them to "suck it".  There are reports of morons paying $100-$200 on these things to get them.  A handful doing that is a lot more valueable to SOE than a lot of subscribers who are RMT refuseniks.

 

There is a discussion on the TCG board about the purchase of booster packs in the never-ending quest for TCG loot from some players that have felt the financial burn.

http://forums.station.sony.com/strategygames/posts/list.m?&topic_id=14231

Here is something I missed:

starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/tradingcardgame/index.vm

Star Wars Galaxies™ Trading Card Game is linked to Star Wars Galaxies through an exciting subset of loot cards. Collect all the loot cards awaiting your discovery in the first set, Champions of the Force, including Podracers, speeders, decorative house items, house greeters and more.

Plus, with the release of the second set, Squadrons Over Corellia, discover more than 20 new highly desirable loot cards, including the first-ever starship loot item, the V-wing starfighter, plus one of the most powerful, additive buff items in Star Wars Galaxies, the Sanyassan Skull!

very interesting....

Originally posted by Valeran

Here is something I missed:

starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/tradingcardgame/index.vm

Star Wars Galaxies™ Trading Card Game is linked to Star Wars Galaxies through an exciting subset of loot cards. Collect all the loot cards awaiting your discovery in the first set, Champions of the Force, including Podracers, speeders, decorative house items, house greeters and more.

Plus, with the release of the second set, Squadrons Over Corellia, discover more than 20 new highly desirable loot cards, including the first-ever starship loot item, the V-wing starfighter, plus one of the most powerful, additive buff items in Star Wars Galaxies, the Sanyassan Skull!

very interesting....

 

Well this is what is saving SWG for a few more months.

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Originally posted by Kazara

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Originally posted by salvaje

Of course they will tell them to "suck it".  There are reports of morons paying $100-$200 on these things to get them.  A handful doing that is a lot more valueable to SOE than a lot of subscribers who are RMT refuseniks.
 

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There is a discussion on the TCG board about the purchase of booster packs in the never-ending quest for TCG loot from some players that have felt the financial burn.
http://forums.station.sony.com/strategygames/posts/list.m?&topic_id=14231

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Reading all of that over on the soe forums, its obvious no one is actually playing the card game itself.  All they're interested in is the loot.  Soe would be better off just selling the loot items straight up instead of wasting everyones time with the card game crap.

Originally posted by Ginaz

Reading all of that over on the soe forums, its obvious no one is actually playing the card game itself.  All they're interested in is the loot.  Soe would be better off just selling the loot items straight up instead of wasting everyones time with the card game crap.

true, but could they make more money?

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Ginaz

Reading all of that over on the soe forums, its obvious no one is actually playing the card game itself.  All they're interested in is the loot.  Soe would be better off just selling the loot items straight up instead of wasting everyones time with the card game crap.

 

true, but could they make more money?

  Maybe, because then they wouldn't have to waste any money making the card game itself. 

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Ginaz

Reading all of that over on the soe forums, its obvious no one is actually playing the card game itself.  All they're interested in is the loot.  Soe would be better off just selling the loot items straight up instead of wasting everyones time with the card game crap.

 

true, but could they make more money?

  Maybe, because then they wouldn't have to waste any money making the card game itself. 

Ah, but see. RMT is only allowed on "exchange" servers. So, in order to sell loot to the non-rmt servers, they make a "card game".

I am stunned how many people actually believe that the 5 booster packs provide to them are free of charge.

Originally posted by Ginaz

Reading all of that over on the soe forums, its obvious no one is actually playing the card game itself.  All they're interested in is the loot.  Soe would be better off just selling the loot items straight up instead of wasting everyones time with the card game crap.

Why get rid of the card game?  They are paying for the CHANCE to get an item.  The majority of the time they are paying money for items they don't even want. 

SOE is getting money for nothing and creating repeat business.  Selling the items straight out is a one time deal and they can't pretend the card game is the real reason for this project.

SWG players are so starved for content of any kind I doubt they will blink an eye at this type of thing.  Even negative attention [loot cards] is desirable at this point.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Ginaz

Reading all of that over on the soe forums, its obvious no one is actually playing the card game itself.  All they're interested in is the loot.  Soe would be better off just selling the loot items straight up instead of wasting everyones time with the card game crap.

 

Why get rid of the card game?  They are paying for the CHANCE to get an item.  The majority of the time they are paying money for items they don't even want. 

SOE is getting money for nothing and creating repeat business.  Selling the items straight out is a one time deal and they can't pretend the card game is the real reason for this project.

SWG players are so starved for content of any kind I doubt they will blink an eye at this type of thing.  Even negative attention [loot cards] is desirable at this point.

 

 

Selling the items outright may cause future legal issues for them since it would give the items real cash value instead of a secondary market value thus providing the opportunity for the items to be declared real property.

Originally posted by Ginaz

Reading all of that over on the soe forums, its obvious no one is actually playing the card game itself.  All they're interested in is the loot.  Soe would be better off just selling the loot items straight up instead of wasting everyones time with the card game crap.

If the incompetent, bumbling, idiotic fools at SOE wanted to actually add some gameplay elements to their Star Wars MMO, all the actual game additions from this stupid card game should have been readily available in-game.

Especially to the crafters as schematics.

But then again, we are talking about the idiots at SOE.  They HATE crafting with a passion.  They hate crafters enough where they made great strides in making them irrelevant to the game.