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Jita (General)  » How to fight someone at a severe SP disadvantage (and win!)

8 posts found
  User Deleted
 
12/03/08 10:11:26 PM#1

Since these keeps coming up over and over again, this thread is intended to be a quick and dirty guide to how to win a 1v1 against someone with lots more SPs than you.

After having been involved in factional warfare for about six months now after having done nothing but mining for a year beforehand, I have a fair bit of experience at this, so...

Know your ship

Not just in terms of "How many guns can I stick on my ship?" but things like "How fast can I be going before my guns can't track worth a shit anymore?" and "How can I get in close to someone, or stay at range (depending on how you're fit) without getting shot to bits?" and "How will this ship perform if it's jumped at a gate?  If I'm plexing and someone hostile enters my plex?", and "How long can I tank a theoretical enemy before I pop?  Can I pop them in that amount of time?", "How long can I run all my modules before I cap out?  Will the fight be over by then?  If not, how do I make my cap last?"

Know their ship

IMO, this is the most important part.  Every ship in Eve has its strengths and weaknesses and no amount of skillpoints will ever change them - if I'm in my Ishkur, and I see someone in a Caracel, I know they could have a billion skillpoints and it wouldn't matter - the engagement still favors me.  On the other hand, if I jump through a gate and see someone in an autocannon-fit Wolf 5,000 meters away I'm going to be sweating bullets while I go to warp (even though, since I know my ship, and know theirs, I know I can get to warp before they can lock me) since my Ishkur performs very poorly at close range.

The way I generally do things is I play around with potential enemy hsips in Eve Fitting Tool - I use the "All Level V" preset character to create worst-case-scenario fits that I'm likely to encounter or see something close to, and think of how I would deal with them.

Know how to work your scanner

This isn't covered in the tutorial at all, and IMO it's a shame since the scanner will save your ass and doom your enemies far more effectivly than any amount of guns ever will.  There's guides out there so I won't go into tons of detail here but suffice to say being able to see your enemies without them being on your overview and get a good idea of where they are will put you at a huge advantage to someone who's not paying attention.

Engage on your own terms

I'm cruising lowsec in my Imicus doing factional warfare.  I jump through a gate and there's twenty battleships on the other side.  Do I engage?  Of course not - but since, like I said above, I know my ship and have a reasonable knowledge of theirs, I warp away without getting caught.  Even if it's a single BS, do I engage?  Still no because a T1 frig can't break a BS's tank - again, you could have alll the SPs in the world in your frig and they could be a total rookie and you wouldn't be able to destroy them.  Of course, even if the roles were reversed and it's a rookie in the Imicus and a vet in the BS, even if the Imicus does get caught it should be able to get away, or hold the BS down while the cavalry comes, as battleships have a very hard time doing anything to a T1 frig and the Imicus has plenty of firepower to kill the BS's drones, even if piloted by a complete rookie.

Now, say I see a wartarget doing a minor plex in this system.  I scan the plex and see he's in a Rifter, which would normally totally outclass my little Imicus.  But I know Rifters are usually fit for very short range and my Imicus has a very long range, and the capture point of the plex is usually around 55kms from the warp in.

So I warp the plex, kite him around a bit while he tries to get into range, and hit him with a long-range warp disruptor around the time he's thinking about warping out (which involves getting close enough to take significant amounts of return fire since the Rifter is naturally faster than the Imicus), but he's alreayd mostly dead and pops before I do.  SPs had very little to do with this theoretical engagement - he would have lost no matter what since I used superior strategy.

Focus your training

To be truly effective flying any ship you need to train the skills relevent to it.  Ten million skillpoints in gunnery won't do anything for you if you're flying a missile ship, BS V won't help you if you're flying a frigate, having uber drone skills won't help you if you're not in a drone boat, etc.

This is the key to why rookies can compete with vets - if you focus your skills you'll find you're very competitive when flying one or two ships in a very short period of time.  From my own experience, I can tell you I started training six months ago toward my Ishkur and today, despite having only about six real months of combat training (since I was a miner before), I fly that Ishkur very close to it's theoretical maximum effectiveness.

I *can* fly cruisers and battlecruisers, but not anywhere near as well as I can fly my AF.  So I stick with my AF and I do very well with it - I know how to avoid fights I can't win and force my enemy to commit to fights that I can win.  I can't kill anything bigger than a cruiser solo, but I fly in Factional Warfare where the mechanics are very BS-unfriendly and virtually everyone flies BCs and below, and I also can fly in a gang as a heavy tackler / aux. DPS and I do well enough at my role that I generally live to tell about it and score some good kills.

I'm a good position now to cross-train other races and T2 frig types, which is what I plan on focusing on.  But, if, someday in the future, I happen to be flying a Jaguar (which I think is a better gang tackler than my Ishkur), then the 3M SPs I have in drones and the other million or so I have in small hybrid guns suddenly doesn't apply anymore and might as well not exist - by training more skills I've increased the amount of roles I can fill, not how effective I can be at any role I've already mastered.


... now where I did leave that flame-retardant suit?

  User Deleted
12/03/08 10:22:22 PM#2

Rast, brilliant post.  Right on point- hopefully it will quell some of the "never catch up" crap that seems to flood this forum...  for my personal safety I won't be holding my breath though : )

  legok

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 47

12/03/08 10:42:52 PM#3

Couldnt help but to read ur post even when im not playing eve atm, but heck of a post mate, great work, its rather clear, real and very accuarate.

To keep it shorter, GREAT WORK.

  Xennith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 1264

12/04/08 4:49:23 AM#4

great post. the problem is that the "never catch up" brigade dont care about facts, they just want to whine or find excuses.

 

I hope you're on the minmatar side in FW :)

  User Deleted
 
12/04/08 9:32:16 PM#5
Originally posted by Xennith

I hope you're on the minmatar side in FW :)

Gallente, actually.  I left Minmatar space in like my 2nd week in Eve and haven't gone back since.

Just today, actually, I beat a red flashy 2005 player - I was responding to a message that a pirate Fleet Stabber was harassing a small plexing op (composed of a Covops frig and and an Enyo).

I got there just as the Enyo popped, the fight quickly turned into a drone vs drone contest, but i was using warriors (which are hard to track), along with a drone durability rig on my ship, and he was using hammers and hobgoblins and between that and the fact I was cycling my drones through my drone bay when they started taking damage to break his target locks, I was able to destroy all his drones while only losing one of my own (which was replaced on the spot with a spare I had in my drone bay).

Without his drones he couldn't damage me since his guns couldn't track well enough to do any significant amount of damage, and he was forced to withdraw.  Sadly there's no KM since he had a Microwarp Drive and I had an Afterburner (which allowed him to escape rather easily, given that he was in a fast ship to begin with), but still, it was pretty epic.

I also shot my dead friend's drone (which had gone dead in space as he was no longer around to control it, and for some reason wasn't showing a purple star) after I mistook it for one of the Fleet Stabber's in the heat of things, so I'm yellow again (it counted as a ship kill and pushed my sec. status negative), but whatever - when things are slow I usually rat in 0.1 belts which keeps my sec. status pretty decent most of the time.

  Xennith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 1264

12/05/08 4:39:35 AM#6

pity you're on the wrong side, im sure you'd be a great addition to my alliance.

  Jonsus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/05
Posts: 176

Until you open your mouth people can only guess at how stupid you are...

12/05/08 5:44:37 AM#7

I fully agree with everything the OP has said.

One thing that has helped me get a bit better, and would likely be a great idea for new pilots coming into EVE, is to have a look at a comprehensive list of the ships ingame, what roles they fill, how to fit them, etc (this can all be done on the official EVE forums, but there are also other sites with ingame shots of the ships and such, since people are attracted to specific ship styles). Once youve found a ship that you think looks cool, would suit you, fills a role that you would enjoy filling, find out what skills you need for it and train for that specific ship.

Ive set my sights on one of the Amarrian battlecruisers, the Harbinger, and have been training Engineering, Mechanic, and Gunnery skills to suppliment my already adequate drone skills (im a Gallente pilot) so as to fly it better.

Pick something you like and work towards it. It takes less time than one might think. (Learning skills and cybernetic implants dont hurt though )

  Kyleran

Elite Member

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 14598

A simple truth-"What people want and what is good for an mmo is not always the same thing"-mrw0lf

12/05/08 6:05:31 AM#8

Great read OP, and made me realize that despite being in the game for 18 months now, I really haven't been playing EVE to its full potential, and your post has given me a lot to think about to refocus some of my efforts.

"Just because you aren't paying doesn't mean it's not PTW." - Amaranthar
Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon