I agree with the original poster.  Games are all focused around combat right now.  There are a lot of people who enjoyed combat in the past, but are getting bored with it after doing it for such a long time.  There are only so many ways you can change combat to make it appear more interesting.  Games need to branch off and incorperate other things that a player can do into MMOs.

Originally posted by Xgeneration

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

second life is your dream game

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

even though it sucks

Even though I'm QUITE sure you said this to be funny....

A porn chat is NOT a game.  That is, unless you're a programmer and can make virtual "doodads" to sell to all the porn chatters.  If you consider programming a game....I guess that would make this a game for a few of the people that "play."  Although, since they make MONEY at the "game,"  I would probably have to call it a job.  Yeah...I can't really figure out ANY way to rationalize Second Life as a game.  Oh well.

/sigh

To me, it's sad that anyone ever even called this a game.  

On topic:

I agree with the OP.  I would also like to see this variety of MMO added to our MMO "food groups."

The only games I've played that you could REALLY not do much combat and RP a crafter of some sort, or something ELSE, were SWG, UO, and Vanguard. 

And the person that gave you a link for Darkfall....wtf?  Maybe it was in their sig and not part of their post, but it LOOKED like a suggestion, rather than a sig.  THAT game is about the FURTHEST from what you'd enjoy.  That is, IF it is ever released, and IF it is what it SAYS it's going to be.

Originally posted by Beery

I agree with the OP 100%.  I've given up on MMOGs altogether because all the ones worth playing are just about killing stuff ad infinitum.  I tried playing without the killing in both SWG and LOTRO, but it really just doesn't work on any but the most basic level.  I'm all for giving people who want to shoot guns what they want, but can't there be real options for those of us who want something else?  Sure, there's crafting, but it gets repetitive really fast.  What we really need are non-combat quests that provide players with an alternate path to the endgame.  Sadly though, it seems that game developers can't figure out how to do this - either that, or they've become so used to making combat quests that anything else is too difficult.

Or how about being a career entrepreneur in a massive world. Finding a remote area to construct an inn where you sell rooms for weary adventurers to regain their stamina. A group of friends taking a rest from grinding mobs, choosing to sit in your place where you provide food, drink and entertainment in front of a roaring fire place. All this happening while you're taking a caravan of your crops that took a few days to grow, accompanied by your friendly bodyguards en route to the bustling city where you can sell your goods on the open-market for profit. The bodyguards you hired because there has been a pesky thief/assassin skulking around your place at night while you were away... can't be too safe.

Cut to the scene of you riding your horse drawn cart through the gate into the city, where you see a massive fireworks display and a crowd of celebrating guild members who have just successfully bested a very difficult dungeon raid....

Things like this would change a great game into a great place to be.

 

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by ethanlalla

Originally posted by Zayne3145

I totally agree with this. Combat is only fun for so long before it gets old and repetetive. I think this is why I dislike PvP so much, because although every fight is different, it is essentially the same gameplay over and over again.

I'm yet to see a game that has meaningul crafting and non-combat professions that are engaging and require skill. Vanguard is the closest I've seen to such a system, but even then you can't truly advance without having to engage in combat.

I'd love to an MMO where you can be part of a real economy (running your own shops, inns etc) but unfortunately the current trend seems to be for PvP gameplay.

 

I am happy to be the one to say this. star wars galaxies :]

 

I would love to have been part of this in its heyday. From what I read about it, it seemed like my perfect game. It's just a shame it got completely shafted.

I really don't understand why they don't roll back to the old game, give it a graphics upgrade, and watch the vets come flocking back. It seems to me like they have nothing to lose. Hell I'd play it in a heartbeat if they did this.

SWG is one of my favorite games of all time.  It's just a shame that SOE will never do this... 

Originally posted by Novaseeker

 It has to do with the breakdown of players in terms of who likes to do what.  The % of players who really want a lot of non-combat play is dwarfed by the number of players who want mostly combat play.  A good number like to have some kind of non-combat play strictly for variety's sake or filler here and there, but the moment you make that kind of play rewarding, the complaints start about "crafted items being too uber" and so forth.  The reality is that the largest segment of the playerbase by far prefers combat to any other kind of gameplay.  That's why a game like WAR can get away with having a ridiculous crafting system -- most of the people who play the game couldn't care less.

I am so with OP I wold like to see this genre EVOLVE instead of DEvolve, as OP state's why all this combat ONLY in our MMORPG's, numerous of games in dfifferent genres then MMORPG do combat so much better where a MMORPG use to be a mix of all sorts of players, those who enjoy combat and those who don't like combat, or don't prefure 100% combat but a mix of things to do in such a virtual world..

You (novaseeker) just made me sad by telling the TRUTH  as yeah! also are right, the numbers will bring in the cash. And we who prefure more from a MMORPG seem to be in the minority, else I am sure this genre would be different then it is today.

And yeah I still remember lots of ignorance going on in games/forums about people who said "go play The Sims" or Secondlife" as those type of people who say things like that just do not understand a thing about what a MMORPG "can" be, else they would never even consider saying something like that to MMORPG players.

IMO it is because combat is an easy way to promote group activity and in the end, make money.  If you look at all the money makers (again my opinion) such as eve online, everquest, WoW, etc.  they all have combat and group combat play.  People continually make combat games because it is a lot easier to make them large group play which currently is a big hit around the world.

For single player games I understand what you're talking about but again it's the money because there are so many gamers out there that want to fight their way through a tough dungeon and overcome giant bosses.  No offense, but in harvest moon for example, what's the goal? Save the farm?  Or any game that has to do with farming as you were talking about.  Also even if the game isn't farming, there aren't many types of games they could make that don't involves combat at all.  Even mirror's edge, it has combat, but you can just avoid all combat and continually run around (which is pretty fun because they'll fall off buildings and you don't even have to kill the people chasing you).

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Novaseeker

 It has to do with the breakdown of players in terms of who likes to do what.  The % of players who really want a lot of non-combat play is dwarfed by the number of players who want mostly combat play.  A good number like to have some kind of non-combat play strictly for variety's sake or filler here and there, but the moment you make that kind of play rewarding, the complaints start about "crafted items being too uber" and so forth.  The reality is that the largest segment of the playerbase by far prefers combat to any other kind of gameplay.  That's why a game like WAR can get away with having a ridiculous crafting system -- most of the people who play the game couldn't care less.

 

I am so with OP I wold like to see this genre EVOLVE instead of DEvolve, as OP state's why all this combat ONLY in our MMORPG's, numerous of games in dfifferent genres then MMORPG do combat so much better where a MMORPG use to be a mix of all sorts of players, those who enjoy combat and those who don't like combat, or don't prefure 100% combat but a mix of things to do in such a virtual world..

You (novaseeker) just made me sad by telling the TRUTH  as yeah! also are right, the numbers will bring in the cash. And we who prefure more from a MMORPG seem to be in the minority, else I am sure this genre would be different then it is today.

And yeah I still remember lots of ignorance going on in games/forums about people who said "go play The Sims" or Secondlife" as those type of people who say things like that just do not understand a thing about what a MMORPG "can" be, else they would never even consider saying something like that to MMORPG players.

 

It's true.

I mean there have been MMOs released with quite good crafting systems -- EQ2 and Vanguard come to mind here, as well as Ryzom.  And crafting can be fun in those games.  But I think that overall, even those games are skewed towards combat in order to get materials to craft.  EVE has perhaps the greatest separation, but it's more of a market/industrialist simulation rather than a real "crafting" experience.

It's worth noting, though, that 2008's two big releases (AoC and WAR) both have crap crafting systems, and seem pretty unapologetic about it.

Not to sound like a corporate shill, but, if you want an online game with NO COMBAT whatsoever, keep an eye out for CitiesXL in 2009.  It's a sim-city style city building game, but it will release with an online component, called the Planet Offer.  You'll build your cities on a shared server, and compete with the other players around everything from money to citizens to resources.  They;re also including mini-tycoon games in each city.

And NO COMBAT!  Just strategic, thought-challenging, competition.

Planned cost of the Planet Offer:  5 dollars per month.

You can check out more at www.citiesxl.com.

:)

Originally posted by dayedreamer

Isn't anyone else bothered by so many games have a theme that to succeed you have to kill things?

I enjoy a good slaughterfest like Quake or Mortal Kombat but I always believe that games should be more varied.

That is why I admire games that try to put you in more relaxed gaming environment where people can be social with each other instead of being distracted by gameplay like Animal Crossing or Dreamscape.

Animal Crossing is a essentially a farming game and I find that type of gameplay relaxing since you have to wait for crops to grow and the only stressful thing in the game is Nanook.

Dreamscape is an old mmo but still is a lot of fun. It doesn't funnel you into raiding scenarios or tries to mix in pvp and just pissing you off because it is done poorly. Instead it relies on allowing players to create their own online events and they can be hit or miss but a good social experience overall.

How come we don't see good games that don't focus on combat?

Because violence is a part of our primal instinct?

I hate animal crossing. It is boring and feels mundane. I would much rather play Diablo, hack-n-slash some mobs and get cool treasure.

MUSHs were always far less popular than hack and slash MUDs.  To such a point that many people have never heard of a MUSH.

It has always been this way.  This is nothing new.  Even MUDs with entire crafting professions far more hardcore than anything seen in an MMO had combat as the core of the game.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by ghoul31

You can stand around and watch corn grow in real life. But you can't  kill dragons or or people in real life.

 

 

Well, you can't kill Dragons...

literal lol.

A tale in the Desert is actually a non-combat game and is focusing everything into crafting.

Combat signifies the competition for scarce resources.  When you get down to the base reasons for any war, it is ultimately about resources.  If you control an area, you can exploit it, have your people settle it, etc.  This is simulated in mmos through wiping out a bandit camp, for instance, raiding, crafting.  Could it be expanded to make room for soldiering and town-living?  It's possible but it would take a lot of creative thinking.  A training program, like in Eve, for townsmen and tradesmen and a separate advancement line.  We all don't make our livings through hunting and gathering, so there has to be alternate ways to making a living.  Those who choose to be townsfolk have to have ways to earn money without necessarily having to interact with other players.  Just like soldiers go out and find stuff to kill, townsfolk will have to have NPC options to make money to buy tools and equipment, etc., to build a business. 

It's making that stuff exciting and worth the effort that's the problem.  Especially to get it done without having to fight.  Not many of us get excited about going to work each day, and for sure, it's usually not a roller-coaster ride of excitement - unless, of course, you work on a roller coaster!

Originally posted by Cillasi

It's making that stuff exciting and worth the effort that's the problem.  Especially to get it done without having to fight.  Not many of us get excited about going to work each day, and for sure, it's usually not a roller-coaster ride of excitement - unless, of course, you work on a roller coaster!

Sunzu speaks: It is not supremacy to defeat you'r enemy in battle. Supremacy is when you defeat his army without fighting a battle...

But it is true, there should be other ways thn just the warrior to go by. Thiefs sneaks around and should be able to avoid battle that way. Spellcasters might use charms to get by. charming persons should be able to talk/flirt themselves around many fights. A scary looking person could scare away many opponents.

In a pen and paper RPG you have always other options, in a MMO it is always about combat. And sure, some fight might be a must but it is far too many of those right now.

Combat is really fun but having to constantly fight everything get's old fast. My hopes for this are to Bioware, they use to have lotsa ways to do the quests in their old games.

UO was the only virtual world in the "early days".  So, saying MMOs were virtual worlds 1st is kind of false.  EQ dwarfed UO in popularity and subscriptions and it had nothing WOW doesn't have.   EQ was the king of the 1st generation MMOs, NOT UO.  If UO had any defining qualities, we'd be playing UO clones, not EQ clones, wouldn't we?  Yup.