I've been thinking alot lately about what is really going on with this genre and why so many veteran MMO players are becoming dissapointed time and again. What happened to our worlds?

Well, I have a theory.

These games simply arent created for US anymore. They are made for a much bigger audience.

Originally computer gamers were more hobbyists and alot of the time we had to tweak our systems just to play games. Anyone else remember creating a boot disk to play a really rad new game?

Sadly we just arent the target audience anymore.

We played PC games before MMO's and FPS. We played Sierra adventure games. We played Sid Miers games and Populous. We loved X-wing and Rise of the Triad. This list could go on... 7th Guest and 11th Hour.

The reason Ultima Online was such a huge hit was that it had such a successful franchise behind it. We only knew it existed and might be good because of this. We are hobbyists and we watched everything on the horizon and thats how we even knew games would be comming out. Asherons Call is another example of this. The puplic had no real idea of these games at this point. The term MMO hadn't even been coined yet.

It was a different era. The word noobie hadn't been bastardized to the word nub. You actually had to know something about a PC to play PC games. Civilization rocked our worlds. I miss these days as do alot of my fellow veteran PC gamers and I think our time is almost up as far as games marketed that we will truly enjoy. The originality dies with us and its gonna be a long dry spell until it comes back around again.

Good post.

I think the bottom line is that everything is cool when it is new. When I see folks rhapsodize about EQ or UO, its not because the games were that great, its that it was the persons first experience with an MMO.

The first time is always the best for most every enjoyable experience.

Originally posted by Rumour

I've been thinking alot lately about what is really going on with this genre and why so many veteran MMO players are becoming dissapointed time and again. What happened to our worlds?

Well, I have a theory.

These games simply arent created for US anymore. They are made for a much bigger audience.

Originally computer gamers were more hobbyists and alot of the time we had to tweak our systems just to play games. Anyone else remember creating a boot disk to play a really rad new game?

Sadly we just arent the target audience anymore.

We played PC games before MMO's and FPS. We played Sierra adventure games. We played Sid Miers games and Populous. We loved X-wing and Rise of the Triad. This list could go on... 7th Guest and 11th Hour.

The reason Ultima Online was such a huge hit was that it had such a successful franchise behind it. We only knew it existed and might be good because of this. We are hobbyists and we watched everything on the horizon and thats how we even knew games would be comming out. Asherons Call is another example of this. The puplic had no real idea of these games at this point. The term MMO hadn't even been coined yet.

It was a different era. The word noobie hadn't been bastardized to the word nub. You actually had to know something about a PC to play PC games. Civilization rocked our worlds. I miss these days as do alot of my fellow veteran PC gamers and I think our time is almost up as far as games marketed that we will truly enjoy. The originality dies with us and its gonna be a long dry spell until it comes back around again.

 

I agree.
 

Originally, these games were made for nerds, and a certain amount of willing investment in the world and the people around you, steep learning curves that we had to communicate to overcome, the ability to accept failiure and it's costs and learn from it, and  was a given. 

And now they arnt.

There is simply more money in selling to non nerds then there is nerds.

What they don't get though it that the non nerds will move on, they only want short sweet fixes after all, while nerds will stick with what they love for years.

They all (and when I say 'they all' I mean the VCs and boardmembers) want profits MAXED and they want them NOW though, so all they can see to do is kill the goose and have a single big lavish dinner, instead of keeping it alive and  having golden eggs for years to come...

It's a shame.

Originally posted by orlac

Good post.

 

I think the bottom line is that everything is cool when it is new. When I see folks rhapsodize about EQ or UO, its not because the games were that great, its that it was the persons first experience with an MMO.

 

The first time is always the best for most every enjoyable experience.

/shrug

UO was my first MMORPG...

I fell in love with EQ.

Not sure what that says about that 'first game love' theory.

And yeah, take away the co-op play and community from EQ and it wasnt technically all that great... But you know what?

It was great for me :)

Well said. As someone that has been gaming since  before computers i couldn't agree more.  Yea i remember boot disks and moving memory blocks around in dos just to get a new game to run. No little marks over quest givers, no go to this spot on the map. Crap just getting out of a starter city you were gonna die at least once till you figured out the safe route.

Now gaming has gone main stream, my sons are grown and still enjoy trying to beat the ole man down in pvp. More to the truth, they grab the old man and run him through somewhere to grap some gear as they know i won't raid over and over again to do it.

Game devs design games for the present generation, I don't mind, thats the way of it. I play what I like and leave when it gets boring or the game falls short of MY expectations. I do hope for a game to come out that i will enjoy as much as AC or early Swg. or even mechwarrior on the zone. But till it does, i'm gonna game till i just don't want to.

Beware the old warrior, we just don't have that much to loose and we look foward to the last great battle. Our weapons are well oiled, our blades are sharp, and we've forgotten more than many know. Step up !

I'm with you 110%.  As a matter of fact I think it applies to any hobby that starts out small but begins attracting a large audience.   The original "cult" followers get left out as popularity increases.  In the end your game genre has a huge audience but is only a shadowy reflection of what you remember it as.

Originally posted by orlac

Good post.

 

I think the bottom line is that everything is cool when it is new. When I see folks rhapsodize about EQ or UO, its not because the games were that great, its that it was the persons first experience with an MMO.

 

The first time is always the best for most every enjoyable experience.

I strongly disagree with the last sentence (he says looking at the hot blond sitting on his bed)....

I have been playing online games since before there were MMOs.  And in my opinion the problem has always been that a lot of people from MUDs and first-gen MMOs are simply close minded. 

MUD players were not so bad as the MMO players.  But the ones that mostly stuck to one MUD were basically just as bad as many EQ players.  The ones that floated around across many MUDs tended to be a lot different even if they settled into one for years.  Much less constrained by the way things are "supposed to be".

I guess that is pretty blunt but that has been something that seemed pretty consistent from 15 years of playing these sorts of games.

I don't entirely agree with the first experience being the best theory.  My fondest memories are of EQ, but my first MMO was Ultima Oline. 

I never played the single player PC games that the poster talks about though.  Before I played MMOs I played games like Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Badlur's Gate, and Baldur's Gate2. 

The old days of MMOs was a lot different then it is today.  There weren't as many MMO players and it was a new experience for the people who did play.  The games were a lot more group oriented and a lot of people quit because of the time investment required to play the game.  Because of the time investment you grew more attached to your character and to other players in the game.

There was also a nice feeling of community.  In EQ buffs did a lot for a new player leveling their character.  People used to come to the newbie zones all the time to buff the newer players up and make their lives easier.  Druids were perticularly useful for this.

Travel was tedious, but there was always the option of paying someone who had a teleport spell to take you to different places.  You could also pay someone to buff you or bind you to an area.  This was all a part of the community building experience as you had to interact with others.  It also scared a lot of people away from playing the game that didn't want to interact with others.

Overall it was a different time and a different experience.  The only gold farmers were real players.  There were no asian companies setup to farm areas.  Now people attack games ecconomies as quickly as possible when they come out.

Originally posted by Rumour

I've been thinking alot lately about what is really going on with this genre and why so many veteran MMO players are becoming dissapointed time and again. What happened to our worlds?

Well, I have a theory.

These games simply arent created for US anymore. They are made for a much bigger audience.

Originally computer gamers were more hobbyists and alot of the time we had to tweak our systems just to play games. Anyone else remember creating a boot disk to play a really rad new game?

Sadly we just arent the target audience anymore.

We played PC games before MMO's and FPS. We played Sierra adventure games. We played Sid Miers games and Populous. We loved X-wing and Rise of the Triad. This list could go on... 7th Guest and 11th Hour.

The reason Ultima Online was such a huge hit was that it had such a successful franchise behind it. We only knew it existed and might be good because of this. We are hobbyists and we watched everything on the horizon and thats how we even knew games would be comming out. Asherons Call is another example of this. The puplic had no real idea of these games at this point. The term MMO hadn't even been coined yet.

It was a different era. The word noobie hadn't been bastardized to the word nub. You actually had to know something about a PC to play PC games. Civilization rocked our worlds. I miss these days as do alot of my fellow veteran PC gamers and I think our time is almost up as far as games marketed that we will truly enjoy. The originality dies with us and its gonna be a long dry spell until it comes back around again.

 

Please correct me if im wrong but your coming off very arrogant. You sound like you think your better than every other gamer because you played shitty versions of games we have now 10 years ago. Your mad because video games went from an exclusive "hobby" as you put it, to a worldwide entertainment business. Excuse my radical comparison but it would be like if wilbur and orville wright were pissed because we're flying fighter jets and exploiting flight to its fullest extent. 

Please, i want your opinion on my opinion

Originally posted by tool321

Originally posted by Rumour

I've been thinking alot lately about what is really going on with this genre and why so many veteran MMO players are becoming dissapointed time and again. What happened to our worlds?

Well, I have a theory.

These games simply arent created for US anymore. They are made for a much bigger audience.

Originally computer gamers were more hobbyists and alot of the time we had to tweak our systems just to play games. Anyone else remember creating a boot disk to play a really rad new game?

Sadly we just arent the target audience anymore.

We played PC games before MMO's and FPS. We played Sierra adventure games. We played Sid Miers games and Populous. We loved X-wing and Rise of the Triad. This list could go on... 7th Guest and 11th Hour.

The reason Ultima Online was such a huge hit was that it had such a successful franchise behind it. We only knew it existed and might be good because of this. We are hobbyists and we watched everything on the horizon and thats how we even knew games would be comming out. Asherons Call is another example of this. The puplic had no real idea of these games at this point. The term MMO hadn't even been coined yet.

It was a different era. The word noobie hadn't been bastardized to the word nub. You actually had to know something about a PC to play PC games. Civilization rocked our worlds. I miss these days as do alot of my fellow veteran PC gamers and I think our time is almost up as far as games marketed that we will truly enjoy. The originality dies with us and its gonna be a long dry spell until it comes back around again.

 

 

Please correct me if im wrong but your coming off very arrogant. You sound like you think your better than every other gamer because you played shitty versions of games we have now 10 years ago. Your mad because video games went from an exclusive "hobby" as you put it, to a worldwide entertainment business. Excuse my radical comparison but it would be like if wilbur and orville wright were pissed because we're flying fighter jets and exploiting flight to its fullest extent. 

 

Please, i want your opinion on my opinion

No, you missed the point. It's like the difference between watching Shakespeare and Three's Company.

If you're an idiot, Shakespeare's not going to be very enjoyable. You have to work at it. But anyone can enjoy Three's Company. Once the producers realize this, out with Shakespeare, in with Three's Company, leaving all the Shakespeare fans  SOL.

Three's Company was a sitcom, maybe you haven't heard of it. Let's see. Think "The Bernie Mac Show", or something like that.

The good part is, although MMORPGs have become geared towards solo play, which is why they suck now, Single Player games like RTS games, and RPG's are still good.

Fallout 3 is a lot of fun. FPS games are still fun too, they haven't changed.

I wouldn't say 'm really mad about it. I was attempting to explain this feeling me and alot of other vets are having about the state of PC games today.

I don't mean to imply I'm better than anyone for playing older games. I am more experienced than many newer PC gamers but thats all. I think older games relied more on creativity than they did graphics because the graphics simply couldn'd be produced like they are today. The golden age of PC games is truly in the past in my opinion.

Those games aren't crappy by the way. The are the basis for the games your playing right now. You could name any new great game and I could tell you what games led directly to that game. They were creative and innovative and targeted towards an audience that new how to truly appreciate fresh new ideas.

Like it or not WE laid the groundwork for what you have now thru trial and error. That doesn't make me better than you but you should learn to appreciate it. Instead you guys cry about what you want in a game and usually there is so many contradictions in those wants that said game could never really be made. We waited for some creative person to drop something new in the market and truly try it with an open mind and see what comes of it.

The PC gaming industry is trying to respond to you spoiled brats best they can and you will never be happy because you don't truly understand what PC gaming is and was.

Indeed. Fallout 1 / Planescape / X-Com / Jagged Alliance / Quake / Settlers / Dungeon Keeper. I'll take them over today's interactive movies.

Originally posted by Rumour

I wouldn't say 'm really mad about it. I was attempting to explain this feeling me and alot of other vets are having about the state of PC games today.

I don't mean to imply I'm better than anyone for playing older games. I am more experienced than many newer PC gamers but thats all. I think older games relied more on creativity than they did graphics because the graphics simply couldn'd be produced like they are today. The golden age of PC games is truly in the past in my opinion.

Those games aren't crappy by the way. The are the basis for the games your playing right now. You could name any new great game and I could tell you what games led directly to that game. They were creative and innovative and targeted towards an audience that new how to truly appreciate fresh new ideas.

Like it or not WE laid the groundwork for what you have now thru trial and error. That doesn't make me better than you but you should learn to appreciate it. Instead you guys cry about what you want in a game and usually there is so many contradictions in those wants that said game could never really be made. We waited for some creative person to drop something new in the market and truly try it with an open mind and see what comes of it.

The PC gaming industry is trying to respond to you spoiled brats best they can and you will never be happy because you don't truly understand what PC gaming is and was.

I have to agree with you man. In fact Im going to come right out and say it.
 

"MMOs today are filled with far less intellegent people than at the start of the genre."

My guild and I had a conversation about this the other day, most of us are 30+ and started back in the day, and everyone agreed that the overall MMO community of today ought to be shot. Heres a great thought that popped into my head to back this up.

When I first started EQ, 90% of the people I met I liked, and could get along with. The chest beating teenage act was at its lowest ever in the genre. It wasnt until about 6 months into EQ that I even had my first bad experience with a terribly misguided gamer. Fast forward to today, I cant go 24 hours without seeing someone make an ass out of themselves, or worse.

Originally MMOs were the nerds paradise, its players were nice, they were people who didnt exactly fit in the mainstream, and found it comforting to be around other people who enjoyed reading fantasy books, playing pnp, and tabletop. Also, at the time, computers werent as cheap and as accessible as they are today. Most of us had jobs, and it took some work to get your computer.

Fast forward to today, when youve got everyone and their grandma playing, the general overall attitudes I come across are horrible. No longer are MMOs a haven for people who are different from your societal norms. Today theyre for everyone. Unfortunately, and I will say this regardless of how many people I offend, and for that I apologize, but damn, most MMO players of today are terrible people.

I do agree that its a generational gap, players of today grew up on the internet, and didnt face the same challenges that we in the 30+ group did. I mean really, the amount of disrespect that I see the "next generation" of players spewing makes me shake my head in shame. Who of us would have been able to talk to other people like that back in the day without some sort of reprocussion?

Gone is indiviuality, gone are players not bound by mass marketing and media, and gone are people who found refuge and were grateful for it.  Remember when playing an MMO made you different? Not any more, everyone plays WoW or some other game. The whole genre has been bastardized and turned into a cash whore.

Lets face it, it was an art, its now its just about the money. It reminds me of the Reel Big Fish Song "Sellout"

first off, i messed up by saying that older games are crappy. I was hipocritical because i hate when people judge a game off graphics, so i apologize.

Second,  im 27 years old my first MMO was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, so im relatively new to mmo's compared to you, apparently. 

The only reason the gaming industry is responding to us "spoiled brats" as you put it, is because all they care about is money. There are so many games to choose form, if you dont like one, you can go to another, so they are eager to please.

When i first played vanguard, it was exactly 1 week after launch and i had a very shitty computer tht could barely run it . But, the combination of overwhelming bugs and an insufficient computer didnt even phase me because i didnt know any better. It was still extremely fun and it consumed my life until the newness wore off.

Every mmo ive played since has seemed dull

everything has been done, so your saying you miss the pioneering days. i think i see where your coming from

your lucky to have been a part of it

tool- thank you for the understanding response. That is more than I expect out of this forum. I hope I didn't come off too harsh. Also Vanguard is one of the few exceptions in my mind of what is going on with MMO's today. You did miss out on Asherons Call which is pretty much the basis for every 3d MMO out today. Everquest came in and did it differently which led to WoW type stuff but I think AC should be required gaming for anyone that wants to play MMO's today.

MMORPGs is a genre that will thrive on the same system that produces channles like TVland and SOAP.

The old timers need their pasture, and the young colts need their open fields.

Older gamers that have that Sid Meir experience aren't going to be WoW'd because they have lived as a gamer since gaming came to be. You look at the lady that died in Shelbyville IN, she was 115 years old. What do you think she had left to see that she wanted to see?

Its good for things to die. It makes room for something new and exciting. I say good riddance to the Shakespearian play go'ers and hello to the Scorsece fans and Francis Ford Coppola fans. Stanley Kubrik lovers along with a host of other writers and producers that owe their inspiration to Shakepseare, but make their own collective works  based on the greater ideal of originality.

See ya later hamlet, hello full metal jacket. I want something that expands it own horizons and takes me along for the ride. Those are the expereiences people will happily pay for.

And as soon as the megaton weight that the vet gamers place on designers is lifted, we might see progression. Until then, everything will be compared to times when gaming was less convenient, and ultimately less fun by comparison.

  very cool. I definitaly appreciate the games that came before the ones i love right now. Fallout, Civilization, Elder Scrolls, Supreme Commander (Total Annihilation) all started as something very different years ago. Not to mention of course all the MMO's of today that were built upon games your talking about.

I think you are the kind of gamer that encourages playable movies. What you call new is really a distorted reflection of what is already done. Honestly I don't think there is anywhere else to go but sideways. If someone invents an original genre then hell yeah thats great. But don't tell me the regurgitated crap comming out in MMO's today is anything new. Its not. Its everything we have seen before and alot of it actually did a worse job.

I tend to agree a littl here. My first mmo was FFXI which i played for 2 years. Alot of things in that game was very tedious and not easy to accomplish. Though the single most compelling part of the game was the awesome community which kept me coming back to play. Today you get more people asking wether you can solo the game or not. Solo in a mmo ? I mean come on, a large part of the mmo experience is playing with other people to have fun.

The other thing I have a problem with is that today's companies don't even establish themselves as quality game devlopers before making mmos. The best example of this is Blizzard. Before they even made a mmo they established themselves as quality game devlopers with the likes of Starcraft, Diablo and Warcraft. Now today Blizzard is a household name and no matter what they work on people will buy their game because people trust the name. Today you get companies making mmos on a wing and a prayer without proving they could even make a quality game first.
 

Today delopers think dollar signs before even considering making a quality game first. Until they realize that if you make quality games the money will be there but until that time comes wether you are a vet player or not we will be seeing less quality and more quantity of mmos being made.