If you liked the original WoW, you'll probably love the new expansion. Luckily Blizzard moved away from the train wreck that was TBC (alien races, space travel and all that nonsence) and is now back to familiar territory. I do recommend this expansion if what drove you away was TBC and not just WoW burnout in general.

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by Azrile

WOW isn't a great game beause it has 11M players.    WOW has 11M players because it is a great game.  

' The other game' isn't a bad game because it lost 3/4's of it's players, it lost 3/4's of it's players because it is a bad game.

You can look at subscriber numbers as the ultimate 'election' where you have to pay $15/month to cast a vote.

 

Sorry, I just find this post as more hype.......I've played WoW in the past, I use to love it, but after a time I noticed the only reason I kept playing was because it was the popular thing to do.

I also notice all my old friends were leaving the game and turning into WoW-haters, unfortunately they also ended up dragging me into playing MMos like AoC/GW/WAR.

But now I really don't know what to do.....everytime I think about reactivating my WoW account I keep getting BG flashbacks and the 10,000 times I had to do WSG/AV for meaningless gear.

 

Only thing I'm sure of from my experience is that what ever game comes out, there better be end-game and community invovled.

I'm sick of grindfests and theme park MMOs.....

 

 

Wow what a tool. 

People who only play games beacuse "it was the popular thing to do." are tools, im gessing you also do black tar heroin beacuse over 200million people do it also?, or your the type of retard that smokes beacuse your favorit power ranger smokes?

Originally posted by Trexor

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by Azrile

WOW isn't a great game beause it has 11M players.    WOW has 11M players because it is a great game.  

' The other game' isn't a bad game because it lost 3/4's of it's players, it lost 3/4's of it's players because it is a bad game.

You can look at subscriber numbers as the ultimate 'election' where you have to pay $15/month to cast a vote.

 

Sorry, I just find this post as more hype.......I've played WoW in the past, I use to love it, but after a time I noticed the only reason I kept playing was because it was the popular thing to do.

I also notice all my old friends were leaving the game and turning into WoW-haters, unfortunately they also ended up dragging me into playing MMos like AoC/GW/WAR.

But now I really don't know what to do.....everytime I think about reactivating my WoW account I keep getting BG flashbacks and the 10,000 times I had to do WSG/AV for meaningless gear.

 

Only thing I'm sure of from my experience is that what ever game comes out, there better be end-game and community invovled.

I'm sick of grindfests and theme park MMOs.....

 

 

 

Wow what a tool. 

People who only play games beacuse "it was the popular thing to do." are tools, im gessing you also do black tar heroin beacuse over 200million people do it also?, or your the type of retard that smokes beacuse your favorit power ranger smokes?

 

Don't be so hard on him, it's hard to find a tool who would admit it so openly.

Originally posted by Trexor

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by Azrile

WOW isn't a great game beause it has 11M players.    WOW has 11M players because it is a great game.  

' The other game' isn't a bad game because it lost 3/4's of it's players, it lost 3/4's of it's players because it is a bad game.

You can look at subscriber numbers as the ultimate 'election' where you have to pay $15/month to cast a vote.

 

Sorry, I just find this post as more hype.......I've played WoW in the past, I use to love it, but after a time I noticed the only reason I kept playing was because it was the popular thing to do.

I also notice all my old friends were leaving the game and turning into WoW-haters, unfortunately they also ended up dragging me into playing MMos like AoC/GW/WAR.

But now I really don't know what to do.....everytime I think about reactivating my WoW account I keep getting BG flashbacks and the 10,000 times I had to do WSG/AV for meaningless gear.

 

Only thing I'm sure of from my experience is that what ever game comes out, there better be end-game and community invovled.

I'm sick of grindfests and theme park MMOs.....

 

 

 

Wow what a tool. 

People who only play games beacuse "it was the popular thing to do." are tools, im gessing you also do black tar heroin beacuse over 200million people do it also?, or your the type of retard that smokes beacuse your favorit power ranger smokes?

 

Lol, what's up with the hate, black tar heroin, crack smoking power rangers??..what??

WTF is your problem, what reason would you have to flame out like that unless I  hit a cord with you.....I didn't originally start playing WoW because of the hype, I just ended up continuing to play because it seemed like there was nothing else better to play.

And to be honest, you kinda sound hypocritical, only a hypocrite in my experience would choose to sound so spiteful, anyone else wouldn't be bothered by the idea as much, you sound like you're taking it personally....lol

Especially since I'm being so frank about it.

Anyways...gl with your hypocrtical self.....

Originally posted by Xasapis

If you liked the original WoW, you'll probably love the new expansion. Luckily Blizzard moved away from the train wreck that was TBC (alien races, space travel and all that nonsence) and is now back to familiar territory. I do recommend this expansion if what drove you away was TBC and not just WoW burnout in general.

Sounds good, I plan on giving WoW another try maybe in a few more months, this time only for fun. Right now I'm hearing a lot of ppl complaining the game is too easy, but I can smell a hater from a mile away..so I'm just going to lay low until I can get some post reviews from players that had a chance to really try the game out.

As you can tell, I have a bit of a love and hate relationship with the game myself. So it's probably best not to rush into things.

I must be one of the rare lucky few.  No one has EVER told me that they play WoW because it has 11 million subscribers.  Quite a few people, however, have told me they don't play a particular MMO because of low population numbers.  If someone, when asked why they play a certain game told me, "I play because it has 11 million subscribers", I would find it really, really strange.  In fact, I would probably question my friend-dar.

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

Originally posted by Azrile

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

Ahh, you miss (or ignore) the point of the McDonalds/WOW comparison.

The point being the fact something that is comfortable/familiar/popular does not nessicarily mean it is the best product out there.

The point you want to make is the fact that if has 11 million players it HAS to be the best product out there.

Difference of opinion. Thank you for your time.

Have a good day

P.S. Your 3 week wait example is a poor one. That is usually a single resturaunt that can cater to 50-100 people at a time, which means they can have top quality. McDonalds is on every other corner and is set up to quickly serve the masses in mass quantity, just like WOW. Doesn't make the food taste any better, but it makes it convient and it's something I know what I am getting everytime I am there.

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

 

Ahh, you miss (or ignore) the point of the McDonalds/WOW comparison.

The point being the fact something that is comfortable/familiar/popular does not nessicarily mean it is the best product out there.

The point you want to make is the fact that if has 11 million players it HAS to be the best product out there.

Difference of opinion. Thank you for your time.

Have a good day

P.S. Your 3 week wait example is a poor one. That is usually a single resturaunt that can cater to 50-100 people at a time, which means they can have top quality. McDonalds is on every other corner and is set up to quickly serve the masses in mass quantity, just like WOW. Doesn't make the food taste any better, but it makes it convient and it's something I know what I am getting everytime I am there.

Sadly McDonalds is a better product than many of its similar competitors.  By competitors I mean fast food chains and by better product I don't mean something that will appeal to everyone.   Just to clear that up.

They do have higher standards, because every idiot in the world watches what McDonalds does, because to most people it represents the entire fast food industry.  No one pays attention the the 1200 calorie death sandwiches their competitors sell, because they are to busy yelling about McD's.   Burger king could serve buckets of chum and no one would complain about it, because no one pays attention to them.  Meanwhile McDonalds is introducing healthy alternatives like applenut salads, kid friendly meals and printing nutritional information on their wrappers. 

caloriecount.about.com/highest-calorie-fast-food-items-ft69490

Just do some quick searches.

The only reason people compare WoW to McDonalds is because fast food and McDonalds have a negative stigma attached to them and they then pretend that has some relation to a video game.   Many don't even compare McDonalds to a similar product [other fast food chains] and instead compare it to something completely unrelated like say... a steak dinner.    

It is humerous just how wrong people are that use the McDonalds reference in the first place, but that seems to be a common theme in their discussion anyhow, so it really isn't anything new.

This whole mcdonalds things boils down to saying that something only has a lot of customers, because it is popular.  The conclusion being that people flock to inferior bad products when something obviously much better is right next to them.  Why don't people see just how silly that notion is. 

Originally posted by Xasapis

If you liked the original WoW, you'll probably love the new expansion. Luckily Blizzard moved away from the train wreck that was TBC (alien races, space travel and all that nonsence) and is now back to familiar territory. I do recommend this expansion if what drove you away was TBC and not just WoW burnout in general.

Hmm, yes I quite agree my good friend. Were did the old fantasy style that WoW should ave go in TBC? luckily it's all good and well for that part in Lich.

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

 

Ahh, you miss (or ignore) the point of the McDonalds/WOW comparison.

The point being the fact something that is comfortable/familiar/popular does not nessicarily mean it is the best product out there.

The point you want to make is the fact that if has 11 million players it HAS to be the best product out there.

Difference of opinion. Thank you for your time.

Have a good day

P.S. Your 3 week wait example is a poor one. That is usually a single resturaunt that can cater to 50-100 people at a time, which means they can have top quality. McDonalds is on every other corner and is set up to quickly serve the masses in mass quantity, just like WOW. Doesn't make the food taste any better, but it makes it convient and it's something I know what I am getting everytime I am there.

And you are failing to account for the fact that if McDonalds charged the same per meal as a steakhouse, it wouldn't be as popular as it is.   WOW charges the same as Warhammer, AOC and basically every other game out there and is still 20x's more popular then the next nearest competitor.

Yes, I am saying WOW is the best game out there.  You are free to included  comfortable/familar/popular into the 'best' tag.   But when people use the McDonalds comparison it is inaccurate because a lot of the 'best' about McDonalds comes from the fact that it is much cheaper then other restaurants, which isn't true of WOW.  If you want to use McDonald's as the other best, then compare McDonalds to other fast food restaurants.

And last time I heard, the last guy that tried to compare his game to a steak and WOW to McDonalds is now out of work.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

 

Ahh, you miss (or ignore) the point of the McDonalds/WOW comparison.

The point being the fact something that is comfortable/familiar/popular does not nessicarily mean it is the best product out there.

The point you want to make is the fact that if has 11 million players it HAS to be the best product out there.

Difference of opinion. Thank you for your time.

Have a good day

P.S. Your 3 week wait example is a poor one. That is usually a single resturaunt that can cater to 50-100 people at a time, which means they can have top quality. McDonalds is on every other corner and is set up to quickly serve the masses in mass quantity, just like WOW. Doesn't make the food taste any better, but it makes it convient and it's something I know what I am getting everytime I am there.

 

Sadly McDonalds is a better product than many of its similar competitors.  By competitors I mean fast food chains and by better product I don't mean something that will appeal to everyone.   Just to clear that up.

They do have higher standards, because every idiot in the world watches what McDonalds does, because to most people it represents the entire fast food industry.  No one pays attention the the 1200 calorie death sandwiches their competitors sell, because they are to busy yelling about McD's.   Burger king could serve buckets of chum and no one would complain about it, because no one pays attention to them.  Meanwhile McDonalds is introducing healthy alternatives like applenut salads, kid friendly meals and printing nutritional information on their wrappers. 

caloriecount.about.com/highest-calorie-fast-food-items-ft69490

Just do some quick searches.

The only reason people compare WoW to McDonalds is because fast food and McDonalds have a negative stigma attached to them and they then pretend that has some relation to a video game.   Many don't even compare McDonalds to a similar product [other fast food chains] and instead compare it to something completely unrelated like say... a steak dinner.    

It is humerous just how wrong people are that use the McDonalds reference in the first place, but that seems to be a common theme in their discussion anyhow, so it really isn't anything new.

 

This whole mcdonalds things boils down to saying that something only has a lot of customers, because it is popular.  The conclusion being that people flock to inferior bad products when something obviously much better is right next to them.  Why don't people see just how silly that notion is. 

Well, let me toss in another detail then.

Have you ever ate at a fast food burger joint called In N Out Burgers (my experience is Southern California years ago and enjoyed them again on a short trip to LA I took) By far, will beat the pants off McDs for flavor, their fries are utterly fresh (they get potatoes, not pre-frozen fries. The one near LAX lets you see the fries line through windows along the drive through so you see they are made fresh) I know, fanboy alert heh.

IMO McDs is nowhere near the best burgers in town (fast food or otherwise) but they are popular because you know what you get, you are comfortable with what you get there, and I am not saying McD is bad, I am simply stating they are not the best on the market, just comfortable and good, and THAT is IMO is why they are popular.

My personal opinion is that WOW does so well is because they made the normal person comfortable in playing it, and that it wasn't bad, just good. But in many aspects, they are not the best on the market. Now that people are comfortable with it, alot won't change, even if a better product develops on the market eventually.

Well, enough of my views for now, enjoy the remainder of the day

 People have different tastes, and those tastes change.  I played WoW for years.  It no longer interests me....so I play other games (gasp!!!!).  Yes, there are other games out there besides WoW, and some of them are different and dare I say better (single player or multiplayer).

If you like WoW, play it.  But don't go around trying to convert/convince people that it's a great game.  Like like some guy showing up on my porch Saturday morning holding a bible trying to convince me their faith is super awesome.  All they will get is a door slammed in their face.

YMMV, blah, blah blah...

He, he. I have tried to get into WoW 4 times now. (Read: I have paid for 4 months at different times) It allways start out great, then I get annoyed at the flaws (yes there are flaws) and realize that they are a result of the MMO concept. Then I start wishing it would be a single player game, be course WoW would make for a extremely cool single player game, but alas, it is not. Then I quit after about two weeks and let the account expire.

The thing that gets me every time is the silly respawn rate of monsters in open dungeons. Its Baldurs Gate all over again. I hate it, and hate it big time. In single player mode dead monsters could stay dead, and cleared areas remain clear. Now that would be nice. Really nice. Next up on my hate list is all the artificial limitations on how many crafts I can train. Why cant I train all? (To encurage player interaction you say? Blah, you can ecurage that by simply making it way more eficcient to do stuff as a group. Doing it by brute force barriers is a cheap cop out.)

Its funny I really want to like WoW. Damn its a Blizzard game. I love Blizzard. I love how WoW is playing for Diablo III and StarCraft II. Really. Loooooove it. So please, dont think I dont value all those 11M players out there that like the game. Big love to you all!

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

 

Ahh, you miss (or ignore) the point of the McDonalds/WOW comparison.

The point being the fact something that is comfortable/familiar/popular does not nessicarily mean it is the best product out there.

The point you want to make is the fact that if has 11 million players it HAS to be the best product out there.

Difference of opinion. Thank you for your time.

Have a good day

P.S. Your 3 week wait example is a poor one. That is usually a single resturaunt that can cater to 50-100 people at a time, which means they can have top quality. McDonalds is on every other corner and is set up to quickly serve the masses in mass quantity, just like WOW. Doesn't make the food taste any better, but it makes it convient and it's something I know what I am getting everytime I am there.

 

And you are failing to account for the fact that if McDonalds charged the same per meal as a steakhouse, it wouldn't be as popular as it is.   WOW charges the same as Warhammer, AOC and basically every other game out there and is still 20x's more popular then the next nearest competitor.

Yes, I am saying WOW is the best game out there.  You are free to included  comfortable/familar/popular into the 'best' tag.   But when people use the McDonalds comparison it is inaccurate because a lot of the 'best' about McDonalds comes from the fact that it is much cheaper then other restaurants, which isn't true of WOW.  If you want to use McDonald's as the other best, then compare McDonalds to other fast food restaurants.

And last time I heard, the last guy that tried to compare his game to a steak and WOW to McDonalds is now out of work.

Well, you were the one who brought up the 3 hour wait example. BTW, I have never heard of a McD opening and people waiting for an hour to get food from them. I remember when I lived in Southern Cal an In N Out burgers opening up and people were backed up to the highway exit to get food from then for about a week. Then it settled down to around the block for the next year at meal times.

But back to point.

The OP (please correct me if I misread) is asking to know the qualities of the game. The fact 11 million is a quantity means nothing to him. He wants to know WHY it is good. He asks and all he is seeming to get back is "11 million like it, so should you"

All I try to point out to further the logic of the discussion is the fact quantity does not always mean quality.

So please answer him with answers to why he should concider giving WOW another chance and not use the "because it has 11 million subscribers" or "It's the best in the market" as a reason. He wants reasons, not generalizations.

Now, to the OP, to properly answer your inquiry, please give us something to work with. What, in a MMO, is important to you? So we can give you the good and the bad WOW provides for your wants and desires.

Thank you all for your time

Originally posted by trevornor

 

Well, let me toss in another detail then.

Have you ever ate at a fast food burger joint called In N Out Burgers (my experience is Southern California years ago and enjoyed them again on a short trip to LA I took) By far, will beat the pants off McDs for flavor, their fries are utterly fresh (they get potatoes, not pre-frozen fries. The one near LAX lets you see the fries line through windows along the drive through so you see they are made fresh) I know, fanboy alert heh.

IMO McDs is nowhere near the best burgers in town (fast food or otherwise) but they are popular because you know what you get, you are comfortable with what you get there, and I am not saying McD is bad, I am simply stating they are not the best on the market, just comfortable and good, and THAT is IMO is why they are popular.

My personal opinion is that WOW does so well is because they made the normal person comfortable in playing it, and that it wasn't bad, just good. But in many aspects, they are not the best on the market. Now that people are comfortable with it, alot won't change, even if a better product develops on the market eventually.

Well, enough of my views for now, enjoy the remainder of the day

It sounds like In-and-Out is doing exactly what needs to be done in a competitive market.  Offer a bettter product.  Then they need to grow their user base and compete in the market.  However they have to compete on the entire experience, menu and everything else McDonalds has going for it right now.  If they are that great people will make the switch, but the reasons have to be compelling.   After all people switched to McDonalds for a reason as well, it wasn't because they were comfortable with it when they started out.

Anyhow, I just don't see any "in-and-out" examples in the MMO world.   No one is even coming close to releasing something anywhere near as complete or polished.  Most of them aren't even playable let alone have well thought out design concepts that are long term fun. 

lol wow forums are fun to read

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

 

Ahh, you miss (or ignore) the point of the McDonalds/WOW comparison.

The point being the fact something that is comfortable/familiar/popular does not nessicarily mean it is the best product out there.

The point you want to make is the fact that if has 11 million players it HAS to be the best product out there.

Difference of opinion. Thank you for your time.

Have a good day

P.S. Your 3 week wait example is a poor one. That is usually a single resturaunt that can cater to 50-100 people at a time, which means they can have top quality. McDonalds is on every other corner and is set up to quickly serve the masses in mass quantity, just like WOW. Doesn't make the food taste any better, but it makes it convient and it's something I know what I am getting everytime I am there.

 

Sadly McDonalds is a better product than many of its similar competitors.  By competitors I mean fast food chains and by better product I don't mean something that will appeal to everyone.   Just to clear that up.

They do have higher standards, because every idiot in the world watches what McDonalds does, because to most people it represents the entire fast food industry.  No one pays attention the the 1200 calorie death sandwiches their competitors sell, because they are to busy yelling about McD's.   Burger king could serve buckets of chum and no one would complain about it, because no one pays attention to them.  Meanwhile McDonalds is introducing healthy alternatives like applenut salads, kid friendly meals and printing nutritional information on their wrappers. 

caloriecount.about.com/highest-calorie-fast-food-items-ft69490

Just do some quick searches.

The only reason people compare WoW to McDonalds is because fast food and McDonalds have a negative stigma attached to them and they then pretend that has some relation to a video game.   Many don't even compare McDonalds to a similar product [other fast food chains] and instead compare it to something completely unrelated like say... a steak dinner.    

It is humerous just how wrong people are that use the McDonalds reference in the first place, but that seems to be a common theme in their discussion anyhow, so it really isn't anything new.

 

This whole mcdonalds things boils down to saying that something only has a lot of customers, because it is popular.  The conclusion being that people flock to inferior bad products when something obviously much better is right next to them.  Why don't people see just how silly that notion is. 

 

Well, let me toss in another detail then.

Have you ever ate at a fast food burger joint called In N Out Burgers (my experience is Southern California years ago and enjoyed them again on a short trip to LA I took) By far, will beat the pants off McDs for flavor, their fries are utterly fresh (they get potatoes, not pre-frozen fries. The one near LAX lets you see the fries line through windows along the drive through so you see they are made fresh) I know, fanboy alert heh.

IMO McDs is nowhere near the best burgers in town (fast food or otherwise) but they are popular because you know what you get, you are comfortable with what you get there, and I am not saying McD is bad, I am simply stating they are not the best on the market, just comfortable and good, and THAT is IMO is why they are popular.

My personal opinion is that WOW does so well is because they made the normal person comfortable in playing it, and that it wasn't bad, just good. But in many aspects, they are not the best on the market. Now that people are comfortable with it, alot won't change, even if a better product develops on the market eventually.

Well, enough of my views for now, enjoy the remainder of the day

Lol, what comfort level does WoW have? If anything, WoW has been one of the most uncomfortable, unfamiliar gaming experiences I've ever encountered. And it's definitely not cheap in any ways either.

Why uncomfortable? Because the game is just way too driven by envy, there's never a moment I've spent in-game where I felt complete or settled in. There has never been much of a sense of community, and it doesn't matter what I do or where I go I'm always being judged for my spec/gear/arena pts/collection of pets mounts and goodies. Even on the WoW forums thanks to the armory I can't seem to get away from everyone's judgmental stares.

Why unfamiliar? Because the game keeps going through way to many drastic changes. One minute a class is gimp, next minute it's OP, then back to gimp again in the matter of weeks. And let's not forget how badly the lore and main theme of the game has been butchered over and over again. Taking a JJR Tolkien medieval fantasy based storyline, then pulling a "Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls" and introducing space goat aliens from mars.

Why is it not cheap? Because the game still feels like one giant grindfest, it feels like no matter how much I grind and pimp out my toon, it's never enough.

Anyways, if you're going to compare WoW to other franchises, compare it to Starbucks:

-They're everywhere

-The cost is affordable, but ridiculously expensive considering you're only buying coffee.

-the stuff they offer never seems to taste the same every time you go there, sometimes you'll find you're favorite drink has been removed for some pumpkin flavored crap.

-The regular costumer you find in Starbucks, even though seem well-dressed and educated at 1st, are some of the most annoying, immature, pretentious c**ksuckers you'll ever meet in your entire life.

-And finally, even though some of coffee choices are really delicious, none of the stuff they offer is REAL coffee, what you're really getting is hot chocolate with some coffee grinds added to the side....

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by trevornor

 

Well, let me toss in another detail then.

Have you ever ate at a fast food burger joint called In N Out Burgers (my experience is Southern California years ago and enjoyed them again on a short trip to LA I took) By far, will beat the pants off McDs for flavor, their fries are utterly fresh (they get potatoes, not pre-frozen fries. The one near LAX lets you see the fries line through windows along the drive through so you see they are made fresh) I know, fanboy alert heh.

IMO McDs is nowhere near the best burgers in town (fast food or otherwise) but they are popular because you know what you get, you are comfortable with what you get there, and I am not saying McD is bad, I am simply stating they are not the best on the market, just comfortable and good, and THAT is IMO is why they are popular.

My personal opinion is that WOW does so well is because they made the normal person comfortable in playing it, and that it wasn't bad, just good. But in many aspects, they are not the best on the market. Now that people are comfortable with it, alot won't change, even if a better product develops on the market eventually.

Well, enough of my views for now, enjoy the remainder of the day

 

It sounds like In-and-Out is doing exactly what needs to be done in a competitive market.  Offer a bettter product.  Then they need to grow their user base and compete in the market.  However they have to compete on the entire experience, menu and everything else McDonalds has going for it right now.  If they are that great people will make the switch, but the reasons have to be compelling.   After all people switched to McDonalds for a reason as well, it wasn't because they were comfortable with it when they started out.

 

Anyhow, I just don't see any "in-and-out" examples in the MMO world.   No one is even coming close to releasing something anywhere near as complete or polished.  Most of them aren't even playable let alone have well thought out design concepts that are long term fun. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, from what I think I remember In N Out is family owned and you had to be a family member to open one in the chain. Seems to be holding true. And their menu is just simple, burgers, fries, onion rings (I think, never got past the fries) and real ice cream shakes to die for. (and sodas). They do one thing best and are known for it now.

I agree, most are stumbling out of release. I honestly think the game who will give WOW a run for their money is some sort of sci fi because it's not "limited" based on genre to what it can do. Fantisy has a few bottlenecks for content (flying, vehicles etc) typically because of lore. WOW made their own rules and set up expectations because of their previous non MMO games. Actually, that might be a secret to work on, make a line of games, hash out the mechanics, balence, set up expectations for the lore etc, THEN release the MMO for it.

That idea is what may make Bioware's one at least to test that theory. They are combining a well known game lore (KOTOR) with their experience on working with balence in a multiplayer game (NWN). So far, it's the best chance to get an alternative into the market.

Ok, enough ranting for now. Have a good one

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

I think people just don't understand 'where' the 11M gets used in the marketing of WOW.  People don't play WOW because they want to be part of a herd, people try WOW because they are curious why one game dominates the market so much.  If there was a restaurant in town that constantly had a 3 week wait til you could get in, wouldn't you be curious about what is going on there?   The thing is that WOW keeps those people who just try it.

People compare WOW to McDonalds a lot, but that isn't really accurate since McDonalds gets a lot of its business because it is cheap.  WOW costs the same as all of its competitors.   Runescape is much more like McDonalds then WOW.

 

Ahh, you miss (or ignore) the point of the McDonalds/WOW comparison.

The point being the fact something that is comfortable/familiar/popular does not nessicarily mean it is the best product out there.

The point you want to make is the fact that if has 11 million players it HAS to be the best product out there.

Difference of opinion. Thank you for your time.

Have a good day

P.S. Your 3 week wait example is a poor one. That is usually a single resturaunt that can cater to 50-100 people at a time, which means they can have top quality. McDonalds is on every other corner and is set up to quickly serve the masses in mass quantity, just like WOW. Doesn't make the food taste any better, but it makes it convient and it's something I know what I am getting everytime I am there.

 

Sadly McDonalds is a better product than many of its similar competitors.  By competitors I mean fast food chains and by better product I don't mean something that will appeal to everyone.   Just to clear that up.

They do have higher standards, because every idiot in the world watches what McDonalds does, because to most people it represents the entire fast food industry.  No one pays attention the the 1200 calorie death sandwiches their competitors sell, because they are to busy yelling about McD's.   Burger king could serve buckets of chum and no one would complain about it, because no one pays attention to them.  Meanwhile McDonalds is introducing healthy alternatives like applenut salads, kid friendly meals and printing nutritional information on their wrappers. 

caloriecount.about.com/highest-calorie-fast-food-items-ft69490

Just do some quick searches.

The only reason people compare WoW to McDonalds is because fast food and McDonalds have a negative stigma attached to them and they then pretend that has some relation to a video game.   Many don't even compare McDonalds to a similar product [other fast food chains] and instead compare it to something completely unrelated like say... a steak dinner.    

It is humerous just how wrong people are that use the McDonalds reference in the first place, but that seems to be a common theme in their discussion anyhow, so it really isn't anything new.

 

This whole mcdonalds things boils down to saying that something only has a lot of customers, because it is popular.  The conclusion being that people flock to inferior bad products when something obviously much better is right next to them.  Why don't people see just how silly that notion is. 

 

Well, let me toss in another detail then.

Have you ever ate at a fast food burger joint called In N Out Burgers (my experience is Southern California years ago and enjoyed them again on a short trip to LA I took) By far, will beat the pants off McDs for flavor, their fries are utterly fresh (they get potatoes, not pre-frozen fries. The one near LAX lets you see the fries line through windows along the drive through so you see they are made fresh) I know, fanboy alert heh.

IMO McDs is nowhere near the best burgers in town (fast food or otherwise) but they are popular because you know what you get, you are comfortable with what you get there, and I am not saying McD is bad, I am simply stating they are not the best on the market, just comfortable and good, and THAT is IMO is why they are popular.

My personal opinion is that WOW does so well is because they made the normal person comfortable in playing it, and that it wasn't bad, just good. But in many aspects, they are not the best on the market. Now that people are comfortable with it, alot won't change, even if a better product develops on the market eventually.

Well, enough of my views for now, enjoy the remainder of the day

 

 

Lol, what comfort level does WoW have? If anything, WoW has been one of the most uncomfortable, unfamiliar gaming experiences I've ever encountered. And it's definitely not cheap in any ways either.

Why uncomfortable? Because the game is just way too driven by envy, there's never a moment I've spent in-game where I felt complete or settled in. There has never been much of a sense of community, and it doesn't matter what I do or where I go I'm always being judged for my spec/gear/arena pts/collection of pets mounts and goodies. Even on the WoW forums thanks to the armory I can't seem to get away from everyone's judgmental stares.

Why unfamiliar? Because the game keeps going through way to many drastic changes. One minute a class is gimp, next minute it's OP, then back to gimp again in the matter of weeks. And let's not forget how badly the lore and main theme of the game has been butchered over and over again. Taking a JJR Tolkien medieval fantasy based storyline, then pulling a "Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls" and introducing space goat aliens from mars.

Why is it not cheap? Because the game still feels like one giant grindfest, it feels like no matter how much I grind and pimp out my toon, it's never enough.

Anyways, if you're going to compare WoW to other franchises, compare it to Starbucks:

-They're everywhere

-The cost is affordable, but ridiculously expensive considering you're only buying coffee.

-the stuff they offer never seems to taste the same every time you go there, sometimes you'll find you're favorite drink has been removed for some pumpkin flavored crap.

-The regular costumer you find in Starbucks, even though seem well-dressed and educated at 1st, are some of the most annoying, immature, pretentious c**ksuckers you'll ever meet in your entire life.

-And finally, even though some of coffee choices are really delicious, none of the stuff they offer is REAL coffee, what you're really getting is hot chocolate with some coffee grinds added to the side....

 

 

Well, comfort level seems to one of the reasons WOW has 11 million people, because they got comfortable with what it does, what it offers and enjoy it. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be what most people are comparing everything else to. (and to do comparisons, you need common ground. WOW with 11 million current subscribers, is about common a ground you can have in the MMO market)

To paragraph two, would it be fair to say you want more of a sense of accomplishment (and recognition for it) than a sense of competition to have the "most or best toys" in an MMO? I can say if this is true, the new achievement system might be a positive change to the game for you because it's more about what you do, than what you collect (though it does have that too in several of them) From what quests you have completed, to dungeons and raids done, it's listed there.

As to point 3, the fluctuation of how a class works, yeah, the new expansion did alter everything (again). I found this one slapping me in the face last night with my shaman. They altered the fury totems completely. Instead of my flametongue totem trying to give everyone in range the flametongue buff to their weapon, it now buffs spell casters spell power. The mage in my Nexas group asked about it and I dropped it for him and sure enough. Mind you I was the only one of three shamans on that run to get it and start dropping it. Are the changes good or bad? Can't say overall, but I do feel better playing my enhancement shaman now (and the looks from hunters when I drop 3 combat pets at the same time into a boss fight is hilarious. The things I heard on vent from our two hunter raiders, heh)

And to the end of point 3, changing lore to fit the game, yeah, it's getting mighty thin to me, but that's just my opinion.

Anything else I can directly answer for you?

Have a good day