Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by razgar

 Yes lets blame the game for some idiot with a gambling problem wasting his cash to get a certain card.

While we're at it, lets blame the casinos for not letting everyone who enters win the jackpot.

 

If it was advertised as a lottery/gambling, I wouldn't have any sympathy at all. As usual, SOE aren't playing by the rules.

Obviously you dont understand that gambling is a disease and is not easily controlled.

S

just like a drug addiction, gambling addiction is very similar in nueroglogical processes. the reward center in your brain lights up (dopamines/indorphines) whether its a person getting high by weed, heroin, or gambling money, the same processes are firing off. for a person gambling its very hard to stop, as they always feel " this next time ill win" this next time ill win big" and they never do, they just win enough to keep them going, and the gambling corporations  feed off this addiction.

TCG although its a game and cant be technically classified as gamblingis , it has all the features of gambling, the probabilities analysises, the chance, luck aspects to gambling. SOE hopes you'll spend your cash in hopes of landing that sith speeder or whatever special card that has a registered and deliberate random variable set to its spawn rate ( which by the way is set to very very low)

When you take these all into consideration what SOE is doing is both deceptive and immoral, as they never truly outline what the nature of the game is, what it entales, what the consequences are, and what the chances are of your ability to get certain cards. for all we know just like every lie in the past they pulled, they probably purposefully set the random variable to the certain cards to so low that any chance of you getting that particular card youd actually win the local lottery before you landed that card. so in effect SOE is depending on your inability to stop, your inaibility due to your addiction (if you have one) to keep spending money in hopes of "winning big" for them this equals profits, just like any gambling corporation ( yes i said corporation cause gambling is now controlled by corporation entities)

I dont know anyone with real gamblng problems, but I would never belittle their situation as in some form or another it can be clasified as a disease given the person who is addicted is effected/changed nuerologically down to the chemical/horomone level in which they cant operate in a normal fashion as say me and you who have the ability to say no or refuse. its a shame really and i have nothing but shame and disgust for SOE doing what they are doing. but hopefully with SW:TOR this will be the final nail int he coffin for SWG. I played for free. ( got that free 2 month thingie until 11/30/08) and the game is absolute crap, servers are damn near empty, quite tragic actually) given some time the gaint eye sore that is SWG will fall and go away.

"I've read some posts about people losing a lot of money trying to get a specific loot card in the StarWars TCG. Has that happened to anyone on this board? I'd be curious to know what you were after, how much it cost you, and whether or not you ever actually got what you were looking for."

I lost my house, my dog and all my self respect...I was hunting for that "Vets" go away card....

Originally posted by Slampig

"I've read some posts about people losing a lot of money trying to get a specific loot card in the StarWars TCG. Has that happened to anyone on this board? I'd be curious to know what you were after, how much it cost you, and whether or not you ever actually got what you were looking for."

 

I lost my house, my dog and all my self respect...I was hunting for that "Vets" go away card....

I know 2 people who have lost very large sums of money - both after the Sith Speeder (over 400 pounds each and 1 got some crappy prizes, the other nothing). I also know of others who have wasted smaller amounts.

It is objectionable on so many levels.

S

Originally posted by DeadDingo

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by DeadDingo

Gambling by definition, since forum monkeys like them, is the risk of losing your original bet.  You don't lose anything because you still got the value of your purchase.... and it is a purchase... not a wager.

This.

For a SWG player that isnt interested in TCG (its a seperate game), but is interested in the new features.

That person has to buy boosterpacks for a CHANCE on those ingame items.

For every boosterpack that doesnt have a lootcard (reward), he loses money (risk).

You just explained why TCG is gambling for someone who wants the new items offered by TCG and isnt interested in playing the cardgame.

 

Well, by George W. Bush... ya got me.

So they bought a pack of cards for a collectible card game and then they choose not to play it. :)

It is still their choice not to play what they bought :)

It's still not gambling whether or not those cards have use outside the card game. :)

Sony is selling a card game.  That is the big difference.

Sony is not just and only running a give me $10 and we'll spin the wheel and see if you win or lose.  They are selling a product and those people who choose to are purchasing it. :)

I fully understand and get your point that it seems immoral and wrong to do... hell I agree and hope SOE burns in hell for all of eternity.

But that doesn't make it gambling or illegal. 

Because, in the end my dear friends, you are buying a product... and not a lottery ticket. 

Those who choose not to play the game after purchasing it still bought a game.... and not a lottery ticket.

 

Well, I only used your definition on what gambling is. For the simple reason that the lootcards are not to be used in the TCG itself.

Anyway, the reason why the players get so upset is that the new 2 buildings are items that have been asked for for ages.

There you have the barn that can show animals walk around that are still hatched. Awesome to have for a beastmaster to show his stock to potential customers. But to get it, they have to buy booster packs in a totally different game! So apparently their AAA MMO monthly fee isnt enough to access all features.

Or what about structure traders? They also asked for new buildings to craft for ages. Now there are 2 released that actually might sell good, they dont get to craft it.

The gambling aspect is my problem with this. Im not interested in those buildings, but I do understand that SWG players would have to buy boosterpacks from a game they dont play to get SWG features. This is such a cheap scam and the way of obtaining such an item is gambling by your definition.

This is also why all analogies with other TCG dont hold and why this isnt simply RMT. RMT guarantees you the item/feature you WANT like an expansion pack does.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by DeadDingo

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by DeadDingo

Gambling by definition, since forum monkeys like them, is the risk of losing your original bet.  You don't lose anything because you still got the value of your purchase.... and it is a purchase... not a wager.

This.

For a SWG player that isnt interested in TCG (its a seperate game), but is interested in the new features.

That person has to buy boosterpacks for a CHANCE on those ingame items.

For every boosterpack that doesnt have a lootcard (reward), he loses money (risk).

You just explained why TCG is gambling for someone who wants the new items offered by TCG and isnt interested in playing the cardgame.

 

Well, by George W. Bush... ya got me.

So they bought a pack of cards for a collectible card game and then they choose not to play it. :)

It is still their choice not to play what they bought :)

It's still not gambling whether or not those cards have use outside the card game. :)

Sony is selling a card game.  That is the big difference.

Sony is not just and only running a give me $10 and we'll spin the wheel and see if you win or lose.  They are selling a product and those people who choose to are purchasing it. :)

I fully understand and get your point that it seems immoral and wrong to do... hell I agree and hope SOE burns in hell for all of eternity.

But that doesn't make it gambling or illegal. 

Because, in the end my dear friends, you are buying a product... and not a lottery ticket. 

Those who choose not to play the game after purchasing it still bought a game.... and not a lottery ticket.

 

 

Well, I only used your definition on what gambling is. For the simple reason that the lootcards are not to be used in the TCG itself.

Anyway, the reason why the players get so upset is that the new 2 buildings are items that have been asked for for ages.

There you have the barn that can show animals walk around that are still hatched. Awesome to have for a beastmaster to show his stock to potential customers. But to get it, they have to buy booster packs in a totally different game! So apparently their AAA MMO monthly fee isnt enough to access all features.

Or what about structure traders? They also asked for new buildings to craft for ages. Now there are 2 released that actually might sell good, they dont get to craft it.

The gambling aspect is my problem with this. Im not interested in those buildings, but I do understand that SWG players would have to buy boosterpacks from a game they dont play to get SWG features. This is such a cheap scam and the way of obtaining such an item is gambling by your definition.

This is also why all analogies with other TCG dont hold and why this isnt simply RMT. RMT guarantees you the item/feature you WANT like an expansion pack does.

 

 

QFT.

Excellent and concise post.

Not to mention that the Barn was suggested by players.

S

I think they should require a looted in-game holocron that when used gives the player a chance to be able to buy the booster packs, which then gives the player a chance to get a special card.

this would fix everything :P

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

if it falls under illegal lottery, the elephant is also irrelevant.  The prize in a lottery as defined can be something as simple as bragging rights.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

Well, I think SOE might be dodging the bullet by providing 5 Free Booster Packs per month to your account. So in a way you're not paying for the Booster Packs unless you want to increase your chances of getting the loot card.

Also Loot Cards can be bought in game with in game currency, so again you really don't have to pay really money to get the loot card.

There's a post on SOE's Forums regarding the odds of getting a Loot Card, its something around 1:9 odds.

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

 

Well, I think SOE might be dodging the bullet by providing 5 Free Booster Packs per month to your account. So in a way you're not paying for the Booster Packs unless you want to increase your chances of getting the loot card.

Also Loot Cards can be bought in game with in game currency, so again you really don't have to pay really money to get the loot card.

There's a post on SOE's Forums regarding the odds of getting a Loot Card, its something around 1:9 odds.

The cards are NOT free. PLEASE read the thread before commenting. Your subscription must be paid each month BEFORE you get any cards.

They have a real world monetary value, so that argument is dead as well.

A post is not a Legal statement. I could start my own lottery and post "odds". That doesn't mean to say there is any truth to them unless my site is regulated, which SOE isn't, YET.

S

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

 

Well, I think SOE might be dodging the bullet by providing 5 Free Booster Packs per month to your account. So in a way you're not paying for the Booster Packs unless you want to increase your chances of getting the loot card.

Also Loot Cards can be bought in game with in game currency, so again you really don't have to pay really money to get the loot card.

There's a post on SOE's Forums regarding the odds of getting a Loot Card, its something around 1:9 odds.

 

The cards are NOT free. PLEASE read the thread before commenting. Your subscription must be paid each month BEFORE you get any cards.

They have a real world monetary value, so that argument is dead as well.

Are you informed that when you subscribe to the game that you get the 5 Booster Packs? No you're not, so you can't come here and say that it has a monetary value. Its the same thing when I buy a pack of cereal and I get a free DVD inside. The DVD inside the cereal box has no monetary value since you're not paying extra for it.

Now if you actually PURCHASE the Booster Packs, that's a different thing. Again, you can argue all you want and tell me that I'm wrong, you're right, you're talking to "provincial" agencies and whatnot. To be honest I got a feeling that SOE/SCEA have their arses quite covered. I'm not even going to bother coming here anymore.

Have a good day sir.

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

 

Well, I think SOE might be dodging the bullet by providing 5 Free Booster Packs per month to your account. So in a way you're not paying for the Booster Packs unless you want to increase your chances of getting the loot card.

Also Loot Cards can be bought in game with in game currency, so again you really don't have to pay really money to get the loot card.

There's a post on SOE's Forums regarding the odds of getting a Loot Card, its something around 1:9 odds.

 

The cards are NOT free. PLEASE read the thread before commenting. Your subscription must be paid each month BEFORE you get any cards.

They have a real world monetary value, so that argument is dead as well.

 

Are you informed that when you subscribe to the game that you get the 5 Booster Packs? No you're not, so you can't come here and say that it has a monetary value. Its the same thing when I buy a pack of cereal and I get a free DVD inside. The DVD inside the cereal box has no monetary value since you're not paying extra for it.

Now if you actually PURCHASE the Booster Packs, that's a different thing. Again, you can argue all you want and tell me that I'm wrong, you're right, you're talking to "provincial" agencies and whatnot. To be honest I got a feeling that SOE/SCEA have their arses quite covered. I'm not even going to bother coming here anymore.

Have a good day sir.

No use discussing things with him, he believes in one thing and hates anyone who doesn't think like him.

Only thing i learned in this topic is we all have different ideas on what is gambling and different views on people being responsible for their own actions, also this is a waste anymore because they supposedly have reported this to higher authorities who will decide if this is legit or not. 

So really don't waste your time here, they will just hate on you for anything the think is a defense of SOE.

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

 

Well, I think SOE might be dodging the bullet by providing 5 Free Booster Packs per month to your account. So in a way you're not paying for the Booster Packs unless you want to increase your chances of getting the loot card.

Also Loot Cards can be bought in game with in game currency, so again you really don't have to pay really money to get the loot card.

There's a post on SOE's Forums regarding the odds of getting a Loot Card, its something around 1:9 odds.

 

The cards are NOT free. PLEASE read the thread before commenting. Your subscription must be paid each month BEFORE you get any cards.

They have a real world monetary value, so that argument is dead as well.

 

Are you informed that when you subscribe to the game that you get the 5 Booster Packs? No you're not, so you can't come here and say that it has a monetary value. Its the same thing when I buy a pack of cereal and I get a free DVD inside. The DVD inside the cereal box has no monetary value since you're not paying extra for it.

Now if you actually PURCHASE the Booster Packs, that's a different thing. Again, you can argue all you want and tell me that I'm wrong, you're right, you're talking to "provincial" agencies and whatnot. To be honest I got a feeling that SOE/SCEA have their arses quite covered. I'm not even going to bother coming here anymore.

Have a good day sir.

You dont have a clue.

First of all, they do inform you.

Secondly, no sub, no cards.

Understand?

I doubt it.

S

PS : Like they did with the NGE when they had to refund everyone? LOL

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

 

Well, I think SOE might be dodging the bullet by providing 5 Free Booster Packs per month to your account. So in a way you're not paying for the Booster Packs unless you want to increase your chances of getting the loot card.

Also Loot Cards can be bought in game with in game currency, so again you really don't have to pay really money to get the loot card.

There's a post on SOE's Forums regarding the odds of getting a Loot Card, its something around 1:9 odds.

 

The cards are NOT free. PLEASE read the thread before commenting. Your subscription must be paid each month BEFORE you get any cards.

They have a real world monetary value, so that argument is dead as well.

 

Are you informed that when you subscribe to the game that you get the 5 Booster Packs? No you're not, so you can't come here and say that it has a monetary value. Its the same thing when I buy a pack of cereal and I get a free DVD inside. The DVD inside the cereal box has no monetary value since you're not paying extra for it.

Now if you actually PURCHASE the Booster Packs, that's a different thing. Again, you can argue all you want and tell me that I'm wrong, you're right, you're talking to "provincial" agencies and whatnot. To be honest I got a feeling that SOE/SCEA have their arses quite covered. I'm not even going to bother coming here anymore.

Have a good day sir.

No use discussing things with him, he believes in one thing and hates anyone who doesn't think like him.

Only thing i learned in this topic is we all have different ideas on what is gambling and different views on people being responsible for their own actions, also this is a waste anymore because they supposedly have reported this to higher authorities who will decide if this is legit or not. 

So really don't waste your time here, they will just hate on you for anything the think is a defense of SOE.

The bridge called, they want their troll back.

Your misguided opinions on "what is gambling" are totally irrelevant. State and Federal law define these things in the USA and not you, your opinions or anything else. This seems to be a difficult concept for you.

S

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by ABRaquel

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Myzery78

You folks seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room here, it cant be gambling because there is no possability of a prize. There is no prize. As was mentioned earlier in the thread but for different reasons, SOE owns your account, not you. You dont really own your character, so you dont own his virtual cards. The argument that these things have value because people pay money for them is valid, but because selling them for real money is illegal it doesnt much matter. You cant choose to break your contract with SOE and sell/buy these nonexistant things for real cash, and then try to use that as a justification that they're doing something wrong.

Essentially people are paying money to get... wait for it....... nothing. Thats not gambling, its stupidity.

According to the Internet gambling law definition, you don't need to be gambling for cash.  Here's the definition again from the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act (2006): "the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance."

Does this seem to fit the loot cards? It does.  I don't think we have a proverbial elephant therefore.

I did find an exception for online games, so let's see if it applies to SWG. Here's the exception: "participation in online games with no pay-to-play aspect."  SWG, as we all know is a pay to play game.

So, a chance to win a loot item is purchased, and this is a pay-to-play game.  Suggesting that you need to be after cash prizes appears to be incorrect--the definition in the legislation appears to be much broader. 

People gamble for chances to win services/experiences all the time, not just money or material goods.   In this case, they are taking a gamble that they will win something that will enhance the online game they are already paying for.  Also, if you look carefully at the mechanics, you'll see that the loot items are becoming increasingly necessary to remain competitive in the paid-for game.  The next buffs avaiable by chance are more powerful.  Currently there are buffs and exclusive vehicles, one of which outperforms everything else in the paid-for game.  Coming next expansion, we're told, are more powerful buffs and exclusive structures.

Does that address the elephant issue?

P.S.  I still hear Dingo's acknowledgement that there is something that falls afoul of legislated standards.  The only question that remains for me is, "will this be construed as an illegal sweepstakes or as online gambling?"  I'd have to look into the specific differences between these two things, as they're defined in law, and I need to go oversee an exam :).  If I'm really in need of distraction afterwards, and think that reading through U.S. legislation will hit the spot, I'll check it out lol.  Prolly, I'll just listen to Pink Floyd -_^.

 

Well, I think SOE might be dodging the bullet by providing 5 Free Booster Packs per month to your account. So in a way you're not paying for the Booster Packs unless you want to increase your chances of getting the loot card.

Also Loot Cards can be bought in game with in game currency, so again you really don't have to pay really money to get the loot card.

There's a post on SOE's Forums regarding the odds of getting a Loot Card, its something around 1:9 odds.

 

The cards are NOT free. PLEASE read the thread before commenting. Your subscription must be paid each month BEFORE you get any cards.

They have a real world monetary value, so that argument is dead as well.

 

Are you informed that when you subscribe to the game that you get the 5 Booster Packs? No you're not, so you can't come here and say that it has a monetary value. Its the same thing when I buy a pack of cereal and I get a free DVD inside. The DVD inside the cereal box has no monetary value since you're not paying extra for it.

Now if you actually PURCHASE the Booster Packs, that's a different thing. Again, you can argue all you want and tell me that I'm wrong, you're right, you're talking to "provincial" agencies and whatnot. To be honest I got a feeling that SOE/SCEA have their arses quite covered. I'm not even going to bother coming here anymore.

Have a good day sir.

No use discussing things with him, he believes in one thing and hates anyone who doesn't think like him.

Only thing i learned in this topic is we all have different ideas on what is gambling and different views on people being responsible for their own actions, also this is a waste anymore because they supposedly have reported this to higher authorities who will decide if this is legit or not. 

So really don't waste your time here, they will just hate on you for anything the think is a defense of SOE.

 

The bridge called, they want their troll back.

S

See told ya =)

Oh and you fail on learning to read, i said people here have different views on what gambling is, and said you and other supposedly reported this to some higher authorities who will decide if what SOE is doing is legit or not.  I'm happy to wait and see what the authorities say, unlike you who seem to get all butt hurt people won't think like you, i personally am interested in where this will end up.

Originally posted by Scalebane

See told ya =)

I've yet to see you offer any valid arguments in this thread. All you've done is troll and tried to derail it. Calling me Anti-SOE is definitive proof of your infinite ignorance.

S

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by Scalebane

See told ya =)

 

I've yet to see you offer any valid arguments in this thread. All you've done is troll and tried to derail it. Calling me Anti-SOE is definitive proof of your infinite ignorance.

S

Where did i call you anti SOE, i'll be here waiting, because i havn't said your name and anti SOE at all, although i do know their are others here anti SOE...so much violence in you, perhaps you should seek help.

Wait why are you talking to me anyways, remember Ignore 4tw? probably should stick with that since you can't handle adult conversations.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by Scalebane

See told ya =)

 

I've yet to see you offer any valid arguments in this thread. All you've done is troll and tried to derail it. Calling me Anti-SOE is definitive proof of your infinite ignorance.

S

Where did i call you anti SOE, i'll be here waiting, because i havn't said your name and anti SOE at all, although i do know their are others here anti SOE...so much violence in you, perhaps you should seek help.

Quote from Scaleborn :

"So really don't waste your time here, they will just hate on you for anything the think is a defense of SOE."

 

ROFL, that old chestnut. "Im losing the argument so Ill try and question his mental health".

Pathetic, but not unexpected.

Violence? What are you on about? Seriously, take your meds please.

Give it a break and just accept the fact you're wrong.

Tx in advance :)

S

PS : Im in my office, which doesnt automatically log me in to MMORPG, so I see your trolling, unfortunately. Im logging in now so I dont have to see anymore of your attempts to derail the thread with unobjective nonsense.

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by Scalebane

See told ya =)

 

I've yet to see you offer any valid arguments in this thread. All you've done is troll and tried to derail it. Calling me Anti-SOE is definitive proof of your infinite ignorance.

S

Where did i call you anti SOE, i'll be here waiting, because i havn't said your name and anti SOE at all, although i do know their are others here anti SOE...so much violence in you, perhaps you should seek help.

Quote from Scaleborn :

"So really don't waste your time here, they will just hate on you for anything the think is a defense of SOE."

 

ROFL, that old chestnut. "Im losing the argument so Ill try and question his mental health".

Pathetic, but not unexpected.

Violence? What are you on about? Seriously, take your meds please.

Give it a break and just accept the fact you're wrong.

Tx in advance :)

S

so how does that translate into you are anti SOE seriously?  i don't see you name there either.  as i said there are others here that are anti SOE nowhere did i say you are, i do understand you are upset at them for the tcg -shrugs-   and i'll admit i'm wrong when they shutdown the TCG thanks =)

Edit: and i never argue i debate stuff, argueing is a waste of time i enjoy a good debate, you simply don't seem capable of handling it,  its like watching someone from grade school i'm right and your wrong waaa lol =)

you said butthurt!