I have been digging around, and can't really find any concrete info on what other MMOs have cost to develope. I am talking from Conception to Launch. I read that it was 2.5million for DAoC, and someone said like, 250million for Age of Conan, which sounds rediculous.

Anyway, does anyone actually know what some of the big names have cost to create? I did a quick rundown, based on a 5 year developement plan, and found that it would cost about 5-6million to build a mid-level MMO, but even that is speculation.

See post 2 for my reasoning.

Game Producer:                                        $80,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $400,000.00

Lead Programmer:                                   $75,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $375,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00

Lead Designer:                                          $60,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $300,000.00
Designer:                                                    $40,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $200,000.00
Designer:                                                    $40,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $200,000.00

Lead Artist:                                                $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Artist:                                                          $40,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $200,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00

Lead QA:                                                     $75,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $225,000.00
QA:                                                               $40,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $120,000.00

Web Developer:                                        $45,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $135,000.00

Sound Effects:                                          $50,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $150,000.00
Totals:                                                         $865,000.00/year                                        $3,865,000.00

Game Engine(Based on Unreal )         $350,000.00
Rendering Workstations                       $10,000.00 each, 2 total,                           $20,000.00 total.
Gaming Computer                                   $5,000.00 each, 20 total,                           $100,000.00 total.
Gaming Monitors                                     $500.00 each, 20 total,                              $10,000.00 total.
Programming Software                         $2,000.00 per license, 5 licences,          $10,000.00 total.
Artist Software                                         $2,000.00 each, 5 licenses,                     $10,000.00 total.
Sound Studio Equipment                       $15,000.00 total.
Internet Connection                                $12,000.00/year for 5 years ==                 $60,000.00
Office Rental Cost                                   $100,000.00/year for 5 years ==               $500,000.00

Total of everything: $4,940,000.00
 

I am sure that I have completely forgotten about several needed things, but this is a rough estimate.

Originally posted by Rallycart

I have been digging around, and can't really find any concrete info on what other MMOs have cost to develope. I am talking from Conception to Launch. I read that it was 2.5million for DAoC, and someone said like, 250million for Age of Conan, which sounds rediculous.

Anyway, does anyone actually know what some of the big names have cost to create? I did a quick rundown, based on a 5 year developement plan, and found that it would cost about 5-6million to build a mid-level MMO, but even that is speculation.

See post 2 for my reasoning.

I know that Funcom had at least 30 to 40 million in outside funding... The average number I have seen thrown around lately (if you take what the companies are raising) is 70 to 100 million.  I would think based on outside investment and what they had internally that is more the range AoC was probably in.  You can actually google search it... I can't see where they would have come up with 250 million.. as their outside sources were in news articles.

38 Studio's in some interviews mention the 70 to 100 million range and in a gamespot artilce not that long ago another company was talking about 100 million for their mmo.

It does make you wonder where all that money is going on most of these games when you finally can play them...

I know that Funcom had at least 30 to 40 million in outside funding... The average number I have seen thrown around lately (if you take what the companies are raising) is 70 to 100 million.  I would think based on outside investment and what they had internally that is more the range AoC was probably in.  You can actually google search it... I can't see where they would have come up with 250 million.. as their outside sources were in news articles

I would assume that a lot of their budget was eaten up on graphics and stuff, and Norway also costs a lot more to run things, buy things, and pay in salaries. Also, I would assume that budget also includes the cost of printing boxes, and advertising, but I have no idea. Either way, 100, or even 50 million is a stagarring amount. Even 6 million sounds so large, and so far away... lol.

Originally posted by Rallycart

Game Producer:                                        $80,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $400,000.00

Lead Programmer:                                   $75,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $375,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Programmer:                                             $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00

Lead Designer:                                          $60,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $300,000.00
Designer:                                                    $40,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $200,000.00
Designer:                                                    $40,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $200,000.00

Lead Artist:                                                $50,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $250,000.00
Artist:                                                          $40,000.00/year for 5 years ==                  $200,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00
Outsourced Artist:                                   $5,000.00/year for 3 years ==                    $15,000.00

Lead QA:                                                     $75,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $225,000.00
QA:                                                               $40,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $120,000.00

Web Developer:                                        $45,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $135,000.00

Sound Effects:                                          $50,000.00/year for 3 years ==                 $150,000.00
Totals:                                                         $865,000.00/year                                        $3,865,000.00

 

Game Engine(Based on Unreal )         $350,000.00
Rendering Workstations                       $10,000.00 each, 2 total,                           $20,000.00 total.
Gaming Computer                                   $5,000.00 each, 20 total,                           $100,000.00 total.
Gaming Monitors                                     $500.00 each, 20 total,                              $10,000.00 total.
Programming Software                         $2,000.00 per license, 5 licences,          $10,000.00 total.
Artist Software                                         $2,000.00 each, 5 licenses,                     $10,000.00 total.
Sound Studio Equipment                       $15,000.00 total.
Internet Connection                                $12,000.00/year for 5 years ==                 $60,000.00
Office Rental Cost                                   $100,000.00/year for 5 years ==               $500,000.00

Total of everything: $4,940,000.00
 

I am sure that I have completely forgotten about several needed things, but this is a rough estimate.

You should tack on an extra year to account for the team members wasting time playing Guitar Hero, surfing Porn, playing WoW.

Originally posted by Rallycart

I know that Funcom had at least 30 to 40 million in outside funding... The average number I have seen thrown around lately (if you take what the companies are raising) is 70 to 100 million.  I would think based on outside investment and what they had internally that is more the range AoC was probably in.  You can actually google search it... I can't see where they would have come up with 250 million.. as their outside sources were in news articles

 

I would assume that a lot of their budget was eaten up on graphics and stuff, and Norway also costs a lot more to run things, buy things, and pay in salaries. Also, I would assume that budget also includes the cost of printing boxes, and advertising, but I have no idea. Either way, 100, or even 50 million is a stagarring amount. Even 6 million sounds so large, and so far away... lol.

Well I read your second post and I can comment on two things..

The art software estimate is a bit low.  Most everyone is going to be using 3D Studio Max and Maya at a minimum.  There will be other assorted software in there just for art.. and the cost is a ... lot.

The outsourced artist cost you listed.. I'm not sure what you expect out of them quantitty or quality wise.

In 1997 as an outsourced what we termed "free lance" artist.. doing business signs.. I was making $8,000 a month.. and I wasn't exactly pushing my limits on the quantity I was putting out.

So for $5,000 a year.. I'm not sure exactly what you would get or would expect to get on the outsourced level.  You could no doubt find people to do various things for the money you would be willing to pay.  The cost would be experience and in general quality on your return.

Altho I haven't worked for anyone else in a long time.. so you could say I'm a bit out of touch with that market now.

*edit* I also don't think you included the cost of the server farms and/or hosting etc...  Unless you are just planning to make a game with no alpha/beta or actual launch.. the servers would be included in the cost to develop/launch.

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The art software estimate is a bit low.  Most everyone is going to be using 3D Studio Max and Maya at a minimum.  There will be other assorted software in there just for art.. and the cost is a ... lot.

---

Yeah, I had actually just taken someones word that 3ds Max was around 2000 dollars, but I didn't see it for less than 3,400 when I just looked around. Maya I was not expecting, and it is 5,000 dollars. So, lets say I would have to buy both of those for each artist, and then some other stuff, and call it 10,000 dollars for the Artist software. That bumps the price up by 16,000 dollars.

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The outsourced artist cost you listed.. I'm not sure what you expect out of them quantitty or quality wise.
In 1997 as an outsourced what we termed "free lance" artist.. doing business signs.. I was making $8,000 a month.. and I wasn't exactly pushing my limits on the quantity I was putting out.

---

I was not talking about outsourcing it to a group inside the US. When I was reading around these last few days, people had said that you can outsource graphic design to China for 1/10th of the cost, and that they still do great work. Then, when you get the completed product, your inhouse artists clean them up a bit, and make sure that they go well in your game. Also, the cost was not for having them work a full year, but the cost during the year.

---

*edit* I also don't think you included the cost of the server farms and/or hosting etc...  Unless you are just planning to make a game with no alpha/beta or actual launch.. the servers would be included in the cost to develop/launch.

---

I had in fact thought of this, but I have no idea what it actually costs, and was finding it quite hard to get solid info. Many of the places that rent out gaming servers seem to be for hosting multiplayer games like CS and stuff. If you happen to know a ballpark figure, then I would love to hear it.

Anyway, thanks for your input. Even with the cost of the artist software, it doesn't push the cost over 5 million, and even if I hire in 3 full time artists for 3 years, that would only be about 360,000 dollars more, which is still a good chunk less than the 6 million ceiling that I had mentioned in the first post. However, I would still like to see the target number as accurate as possible, so your input is not at all wasted.
 

Some data for you guys:

VC's and media companies invested more than $425 million in 15 virtual world in Q4 2007. From Oct 2006 to Oct 2007 that equalled $1 billion dollars invested in about 35 world.

Thats an average of $28 million for an MMO production.

My company is so far planning on using $25 million for its production, but this is helped by existing technology (stuff we dont need to make)

I can add that Anarchy Online (7 years of development) cost around $30 million to develop, but this was more due to the amount of time that was spent on it. Tabula Rasa was also a lot more expensive, due to the waste of reproduction time that they had (6 years)

Daoc is something of a wonder. It took them 2 years to develop the basic game with a crew of 20 people. As a comparison Secret worlds has I think it is 80 people at the moment.

You've got to pay people more than salaries.  There are things like retirement benefits, health benefits (if you're in the US) and HR Costs.  You're going to have to spend some money to recruit these people as well.

There are things like  insurance, and utility bills.

You need project managment software and other 'office' type software.  Some of this you can get from freeware.

You need desks and chairs and lamps and art supplies.

The size of Rallycat's team is closer to a independent single player game team than an MMO. 

38 Studios, an rather ambitions project admittedly, lists 59 people on their site.

http://www.38studios.com/people/visionaries

There are tons of companies that do not offer benefits, and since this would be a smaller operation, without a corperate backing, I think that you could easily lure in people without offering those benefits. Partial ownership options alone would more than likely sway the average person. Now, if you want serious professionals, then yes, you will need to offer better packages, but then again, you would end up paying more than the above as well.

Recruitment efforts these days are actually not that tough, esspecially with a cooling economy. Insurance is something that I had not thought of, but as I stated, I was just rounding up the total cost to 6 million, even though the numbers supplied only showed about 5 million. That extra million is padding for additional costs. But yes, thank you very much for pointing out a few things here and there. Desks and other office objects would make little impact, less than 10,000 dollars I would image, but it is still something to consider.

Anyway, a 20 man team is still a pretty sizable team for an independant operation, considering I have seen several people talking about groups as small as 5-8.

Guess I'll never be able to afford one. Doubt I have the patience to grind code one in my spare time.

Originally posted by Rallycart

There are tons of companies that do not offer benefits, and since this would be a smaller operation, without a corperate backing, I think that you could easily lure in people without offering those benefits. Partial ownership options alone would more than likely sway the average person. Now, if you want serious professionals, then yes, you will need to offer better packages, but then again, you would end up paying more than the above as well.

Recruitment efforts these days are actually not that tough, esspecially with a cooling economy. Insurance is something that I had not thought of, but as I stated, I was just rounding up the total cost to 6 million, even though the numbers supplied only showed about 5 million. That extra million is padding for additional costs. But yes, thank you very much for pointing out a few things here and there. Desks and other office objects would make little impact, less than 10,000 dollars I would image, but it is still something to consider.

Anyway, a 20 man team is still a pretty sizable team for an independant operation, considering I have seen several people talking about groups as small as 5-8.

I don't know about the state of the economy adversly affected the market for game professionals.  I am not sure about this, but I suspect that games are an inferior product (in the economic sense) in that when people don't have jobs or a lot of money, they may be more prone to buy games and sit and home and play them - sort of akin to the 'games and bread' policies of ancient Rome.

Programmers aren't going to leave Blizzard and Bioware to come work for you, unless you give them some financial incentive to do so.  They know that they have secure jobs there, so you'll have to pay them extra to entice them to come to some startup company.  Yes, you can pay them with owners equity, to some degree, but they also need to eat, sleep, pay their car note, and be able to go to the doctor just like they do today. 

A 20 man team is pretty sizeable.  I think that's about as big as Turbine and Mythic were when they released their first titles.  If you've got $6 million, it would be hard to describe that as independent.  That much cash is probably going to come, in some part, from some publisher, or maybe another game studio.  Just doing HR for that many people can be a full time job, especially if you're relocating them.

 Don't forget a large chunk of change to secure the IP rights (ie. LotRO, Star Trek Online, Star Wars mmos, etc, etc, etc).

Also, all the overhead associated with each head, above an beyond their base salary (ie. medical, dental, any sort of retirement plans, having HR people to deal with this crap, etc)