Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Zorvan

Alright, enough bickering. It doesn't matter who was mistaken and who was not. The TTH issue has been dealt with and is closed. So let's put this thread back on track so that it will still be here for us to get more updates on the actual topic.

Thank you.

 

I agree. The topic is Hey Straden! Pop in here a sec. This topic is about Stradden, not Ten Ton Hammer. If Ten Ton Hammer pops in here a bit, it is off topic. So, let's continue to discuss Stradden, and his popping.

Pfft, you know what I meant.

I agree, like I just said this thread is about MMORPG getting access to Darkfall beta for preview/review purposes not TTH.

I only brought it up because it proves that Aventurine are ignoring enquires from other members of the mainstream gaming media.

Which supports my opinion that MMORPG will also be ignored.

Hopefully I will be wrong but I doubt it.

Originally posted by Polarization

I agree, like I just said this thread is about MMORPG getting access to Darkfall beta for preview/review purposes not TTH.

I only brought it up because it proves that Aventurine are ignoring enquires from other members of the mainstream gaming media.

Which supports my opinion that MMORPG will also be ignored.

Hopefully I will be wrong but I doubt it.

Just to be fair, would an American gaming company based in America, give much credence to EU based media, if for example, they only spoke French?

I"m just saying, these guys are in Greece, maybe all they care about right now is EU media, which is why they let Italians see the game. If they don't even speak English, they probably don't pay much attention to US media.

Originally posted by Polarization

I agree, like I just said this thread is about MMORPG getting access to Darkfall beta for preview/review purposes not TTH.

I only brought it up because it proves that Aventurine are ignoring enquires from other members of the mainstream gaming media.

Which supports my opinion that MMORPG will also be ignored.

Hopefully I will be wrong but I doubt it.

Depends on if MMORPG.com asks for an interview like TTH did or if they are actualy willing to take Aventurine up on there offer I would imagine. Considering at this stage just about everything we would want in an interview is converd by the NDA. Allowing media access to info coverd by the NDA would then undermine the NDA making players feel jipped because this was information they were told they could not share.

Guess when you think about it other companies allowing media to publish information coverd by an NDA while telling players they can not takes away a bit of the seriousness of the NDA which would probably encourage some to leak.

Anyways hopefuly we get an answer on if MMORPG .com is willing to accept the offer extended at this time or not.

Anyways this is just my opinion, since they haven't turned down any requests that we know of I think it's a valid opinion. I mean MMORPG Italia was able to apparently why would they turn down others?

Edited to add: You keep trying to push that they got there request turned down. The request was for an interview over IRC, TTH has already had an interview and Aventurine has done several other interviews. At this time much of what we want to know is coverd by the NDA (reasonable assumption on my part)  so an interview would only yield information we already know.

Besides considering Aventurine did not offer an interview they offered to let game media to come down and play the beta and write a review I don't see how you make the connection ......

Aventurine offers to let any reputable media come to there HQ and play the beta and write a review about it after another game media site has done exactly this.

TTH requested an interview while there is a NDA in place after they had already been given an interview previously. Calling the company Adventurine repeatedly mind you lol.

Aventurine has not responded to them

You say that Aventurine has denied them there request by not responding yet.

You claim that since Aventurine  did not give TTH another interview while the NDA is in effect that they will not allow MMORPG.com do a beta preview and review?

And this is a logical thought process to you?

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Polarization

I agree, like I just said this thread is about MMORPG getting access to Darkfall beta for preview/review purposes not TTH.

I only brought it up because it proves that Aventurine are ignoring enquires from other members of the mainstream gaming media.

Which supports my opinion that MMORPG will also be ignored.

Hopefully I will be wrong but I doubt it.

 

Just to be fair, would an American gaming company based in America, give much credence to EU based media, if for example, they only spoke French?

I"m just saying, these guys are in Greece, maybe all they care about right now is EU media, which is why they let Italians see the game. If they don't even speak English, they probably don't pay much attention to US media.

Don't kid yourself. These guys all speak English, and it's completely unbelievable that anyone outside of Asia would be in the videogames industry and not pay any attention to US media. As I said earlier, their completely unrealistic (not to mention unnecessary) requirement that media journalists fly to Athens and test this game at their studios is just another stalling tactic to hold off critical reviewers while still trying to give the impression that they're "almost ready... really!"

There's no way Aventurine will let MMORPG.com try this game remotely, and it's very unlikely that MMORPG.com will pay to fly someone to Athens to try it on their behalf (especially since it will be a fairly unrepresentative and very limited view of the game).

This thread, like Darkfall, is going nowhere...

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

This thread, like Darkfall, is going nowhere...

bah just b/c DF has a bad (NO) relationship with its fans doesn't mean its going to be a bad game. AoC and Vangaurd had GREAT interaction with their fans, look they did. There's no causation or coorelation b/w the 2 variables.

Though mediawise, you may have a point DF will be f#cked trying to get customers with their nonexistant advertizing... but maybe they want to spend all their money on the game and let word of mouth do the advertizing for them, which isn't ALL that bad of a plan considering they almost have 200k forum members well before launch.

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

 

Don't kid yourself. These guys all speak English, and it's completely unbelievable that anyone outside of Asia would be in the videogames industry and not pay any attention to US media.

Up to this point i have to agree with you, taking into acount their goal is to publish if possible at same time EU and US ...

As I said earlier, their completely unrealistic (not to mention unnecessary) requirement that media journalists fly to Athens and test this game at their studios is just another stalling tactic to hold off critical reviewers while still trying to give the impression that they're "almost ready... really!"

Aventurine is a newcomer no wonder if the feel that way considering how media already threaten them..the most fair scenario for them is "game speak for itself" ..if some biased reporter turns it down ..becuase (and i just really speculate here) happens to not like sandbox full PvP games and is AoC or WoW fanboi writes an unfair article and turns the game down for nothing ? would it be fair ? the amount of hate is really big and the big companies even pay for put newcomers down...ideally the reporter should be  fan of oldschool UO type games and like indepedend small companies AND don'tr receive checks of $OE,EA, Funcom and that like ;)

-for some may sound like excuse but for the small company is their only fair chance ?

There's no way Aventurine will let MMORPG.com try this game remotely, and it's very unlikely that MMORPG.com will pay to fly someone to Athens to try it on their behalf (especially since it will be a fairly unrepresentative and very limited view of the game).

Lets see and test it..

This thread, like Darkfall, is going nowhere...

This thread can be easily turn in having a satisfying result and it is all about MMORPG.com staff  are willing to accept Aventurine offer and if not why not ? and if Aventurine really declines,  give us the why ..simply

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

 

Don't kid yourself. These guys all speak English, and it's completely unbelievable that anyone outside of Asia would be in the videogames industry and not pay any attention to US media.

Up to this point i have to agree with you, taking into acount their goal is to publish if possible at same time EU and US ...

As I said earlier, their completely unrealistic (not to mention unnecessary) requirement that media journalists fly to Athens and test this game at their studios is just another stalling tactic to hold off critical reviewers while still trying to give the impression that they're "almost ready... really!"

Aventurine is a newcomer no wonder if the feel that way considering how media already threaten them..the most fair scenario for them is "game speak for itself" ..if some biased reporter turns it down ..becuase (and i just really speculate here) happens to not like sandbox full PvP games and is AoC or WoW fanboi writes an unfair article and turns the game down for nothing ? would it be fair ? the amount of hate is really big and the big companies even pay for put newcomers down...ideally the reporter should be  fan of oldschool UO type games and like indepedend small companies AND don'tr receive checks of $OE,EA, Funcom and that like ;)

-for some may sound like excuse but for the small company is their only fair chance ?

There's no way Aventurine will let MMORPG.com try this game remotely, and it's very unlikely that MMORPG.com will pay to fly someone to Athens to try it on their behalf (especially since it will be a fairly unrepresentative and very limited view of the game).

Lets see and test it..

This thread, like Darkfall, is going nowhere...

This thread can be easily turn in having a satisfying result and it is all about MMORPG.com staff  are willing to accept Aventurine offer and if not why not ? and if Aventurine really declines,  give us the why ..simply

 

The mmorpg guys gave EVE a good note. 8+???

MMORPG staff aren't cheap basterds. They gave AOC a 6 and world of warcraft NOT an 9! 

It would have no reason to exclude mmorpg.com from it.

Afterall, the developers said, there game was finished and most of the supporters say the game is bug free etc. I am curious about that , for seeing that. And i mean with that, testing it for myself or some beta leaks/ mmorpg.com reviews. What i don't need is sites like gamespot. They suck.

I rather have eurogamer and mmorpg.com They seem to be more honest .

Ghost - Aventurine can do whatever they want with their NDA, as evidenced by lifting the NDA for fan visits and MMORPGitalia. Really, it does not make any sense to turn down free publicity from the mainstream gaming media when your feature-complete and pro-tested game is set to launch within a month. To totally ignore inquiries from a site like TTH is where the logic breaks down, IMO.

Aventurine had no problems talking to MMORPG, TTH, Warcry, and IGN when their game wasnt ready. So now that their game apparently is ready, they stop talking to the big boys?  
 

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Ghost - Aventurine can do whatever they want with their NDA, as evidenced by lifting the NDA for fan visits and MMORPGitalia. Really, it does not make any sense to turn down free publicity from the mainstream gaming media when your feature-complete and pro-tested game is set to launch within a month. To totally ignore inquiries from a site like TTH is where the logic breaks down, IMO.

Aventurine had no problems talking to MMORPG, TTH, Warcry, and IGN when their game wasnt ready. So now that their game apparently is ready, they stop talking to the big boys?  
 

 

Problem with this is the NDA wasn't lifted for those you said it was lifted for. They had to agree and adhere to the NDA and must continue to do so until it is lifted.

Again what would an interview do besides reitterate the same stuff? With the NDA still there not much we don't know if anything we don't already know will surfice. Sorry I am just making a reasonable assumption here.

The offer extended is to go there test the beta and write a review sounds better than an interview to me.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Problem with this is the NDA wasn't lifted for those you said it was lifted for. They had to agree and adhere to the NDA and must continue to do so until it is lifted.

Again what would an interview do besides reitterate the same stuff? With the NDA still there not much we don't know if anything we don't already know will surfice. Sorry I am just making a reasonable assumption here.

The offer extended is to go there test the beta and write a review sounds better than an interview to me.

Tasos: "The people who have been here may or may not write about their visit, we didn't make them sign NDAs and we showed them the game."

OK...that is what Tasos said about the visitors writing about their impressions.  And clearly, they lifted the NDA for the MMORPGItalia info to be released.

You dont get it...the NDA is Aventurine's choice.  You make it sound like they have their hands tied!  They can do whatever they want.  Their choice for silence this close to release does not compute if they dont have anything to hide.  While there might be a reason to keep the NDA enforced, I cant think of a good one that would not include significant problems - and Aventurine claims they dont have any significant problems and are still on track.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Problem with this is the NDA wasn't lifted for those you said it was lifted for. They had to agree and adhere to the NDA and must continue to do so until it is lifted.

Again what would an interview do besides reitterate the same stuff? With the NDA still there not much we don't know if anything we don't already know will surfice. Sorry I am just making a reasonable assumption here.

The offer extended is to go there test the beta and write a review sounds better than an interview to me.

 

Tasos: "The people who have been here may or may not write about their visit, we didn't make them sign NDAs and we showed them the game."

OK...that is what Tasos said about the visitors writing about their impressions.  And clearly, they lifted the NDA for the MMORPGItalia info to be released.

You dont get it...the NDA is Aventurine's choice.  You make it sound like they have their hands tied!  They can do whatever they want.  Their choice for silence this close to release does not compute if they dont have anything to hide.  While there might be a reason to keep the NDA enforced, I cant think of a good one that would not include significant problems - and Aventurine claims they dont have any significant problems and are still on track.

"We have not lifted the NDA, we have only allowed them access for their review, but not to answer questions after this is out."

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=83013 <--- Source.

Research is your friend lol.

You are right it is there choice and they clearly stated what that choice is.

 Edited to add: To clarify it a bit for you, the visitors that did not sign the NDA played a Demo version that was originaly made for conventions and such. 

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3327-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-5-A-Look-Under-The-Hood

Check the link above it's the Darkfall Limited Demo Server Gameplay Document

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

"We have not lifted the NDA, we have only allowed them access for their review, but not to answer questions after this is out."

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=83013 <--- Source.

Research is your friend lol.

You are right it is there choice and they clearly stated what that choice is.

 Edited to add: To clarify it a bit for you, the visitors that did not sign the NDA played a Demo version that was originaly made for conventions and such. 

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3327-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-5-A-Look-Under-The-Hood

Check the link above it's the Darkfall Limited Demo Server Gameplay Document

Good lord...you DF apologists are maddening.  Right there it tells you that they allowed the article to be written (they lifted the NDA for the article) but they are making it clear that everyone else is still not allowed to talk and nothing else is allowed beyond what the article covered.  Yellowbeard gave significant info - including the NA launch would likely be delayed - whether he played the demo or not.

So, in the end, we both agree that Aventurine chooses to keep silent.  Good, that is progress! 

EDIT:  Unfortunately, this brings us right back to my original statement, which I will post again for your convenience:

Ghost - Aventurine can do whatever they want with their NDA, as evidenced by lifting the NDA for fan visits and MMORPGitalia. Really, it does not make any sense to turn down free publicity from the mainstream gaming media when your feature-complete and pro-tested game is set to launch within a month. To totally ignore inquiries from a site like TTH is where the logic breaks down, IMO.

Aventurine had no problems talking to MMORPG, TTH, Warcry, and IGN when their game wasnt ready. So now that their game apparently is ready, they stop talking to the big boys? 
 

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

"We have not lifted the NDA, we have only allowed them access for their review, but not to answer questions after this is out."

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=83013 <--- Source.

Research is your friend lol.

You are right it is there choice and they clearly stated what that choice is.

 Edited to add: To clarify it a bit for you, the visitors that did not sign the NDA played a Demo version that was originaly made for conventions and such. 

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3327-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-5-A-Look-Under-The-Hood

Check the link above it's the Darkfall Limited Demo Server Gameplay Document

 

Good lord...you DF apologists are maddening.  Right there it tells you that they allowed the article to be written (they lifted the NDA for the article) but they are making it clear that everyone else is still not allowed to talk and nothing else is allowed beyond what the article covered.  Yellowbeard gave significant info - including the NA launch would likely be delayed - whether he played the demo or not.

So, in the end, we both agree that Aventurine chooses to keep silent.  Good, that is progress! 

Sadly they did not lift the NDA for this review hence why the information is limited to general impressions and personal opinions on the game. Screenshots allowed were limited. Vid was limited. If the NDA was lifted then they could have posted all that they had, they even made a mistake and posted a SS they weren't allowed to post yet and had to remove it lol.

Sorry my friend you are wrong about the NDA, Yellowbeard as well was allowed to disclose information he was approved to disclose and nothing more. Sorry NDA is and has been in effect and has not been lifted. I hope this has helped you understand that a bit better.

In the end yes we agree that Aventurine is doing as they choose, which is what most companies do lol so I don't get your point on that.

Edited to address your edit: This brings us right back to my original response. Sorry you made an assumtion that was proved wrong. It's ok it happens lol. The NDA was not lifted the statements made by Tasos reflect this as do the actions and the info released. Try again if you like.

As far as why they have stopped talking to the gaming sites and such I would imagine this close to there intended open beta date and launch date they are a bit buisy. But I guess this to is an outlandish assumption on my part and makes me just a DF sympathiser lol.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Sadly they did not lift the NDA for this review hence why the information is limited to general impressions and personal opinions on the game. Screenshots allowed were limited. Vid was limited. If the NDA was lifted then they could have posted all that they had, they even made a mistake and posted a SS they weren't allowed to post yet and had to remove it lol.

Sorry my friend you are wrong about the NDA, Yellowbeard as well was allowed to disclose information he was approved to disclose and nothing more. Sorry NDA is and has been in effect and has not been lifted. I hope this has helped you understand that a bit better.

 

In the end yes we agree that Aventurine is doing as they choose, which is what most companies do lol so I don't get your point on that.

Edited to address your edit: This brings us right back to my original response. Sorry you made an assumtion that was proved wrong. It's ok it happens lol. The NDA was not lifted the statements made by Tasos reflect this as do the actions and the info released. Try again if you like.

 

As far as why they have stopped talking to the gaming sites and such I would imagine this close to there intended open beta date and launch date they are a bit buisy. But I guess this to is an outlandish assumption on my part and makes me just a DF sympathiser lol.

Where is that "beat your head against the wall" icon? 

Yellowbeard did not have to agree to any NDA, so he can say whatever he wants, whenever he wants.  The NDA for those that agreed to it, is still in effect, freaking duh!  And yet an article was written - breach of NDA!  Oh wait, Aventurine allowed that to happen, some might even say they lifted the NDA on these guys for a few hours...(impressions and personal opinions is likely ALL they had in the short time they were allowed to play - which is also covered by the NDA anyhow)

Honestly, I cant decide if you are dense, inexperienced, or just being argumentative.  In any case, further discussion appears pointless.   I will accept your answer - they are too busy to talk to media.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Sadly they did not lift the NDA for this review hence why the information is limited to general impressions and personal opinions on the game. Screenshots allowed were limited. Vid was limited. If the NDA was lifted then they could have posted all that they had, they even made a mistake and posted a SS they weren't allowed to post yet and had to remove it lol.

Sorry my friend you are wrong about the NDA, Yellowbeard as well was allowed to disclose information he was approved to disclose and nothing more. Sorry NDA is and has been in effect and has not been lifted. I hope this has helped you understand that a bit better.

 

In the end yes we agree that Aventurine is doing as they choose, which is what most companies do lol so I don't get your point on that.

Edited to address your edit: This brings us right back to my original response. Sorry you made an assumtion that was proved wrong. It's ok it happens lol. The NDA was not lifted the statements made by Tasos reflect this as do the actions and the info released. Try again if you like.

 

As far as why they have stopped talking to the gaming sites and such I would imagine this close to there intended open beta date and launch date they are a bit buisy. But I guess this to is an outlandish assumption on my part and makes me just a DF sympathiser lol.

 

Where is that "beat your head against the wall" icon? 

Yellowbeard did not have to agree to any NDA, so he can say whatever he wants, whenever he wants.  The NDA for those that agreed to it, is still in effect, freaking duh!  And yet an article was written - breach of NDA!  Oh wait, Aventurine allowed that to happen, some might even say they lifted the NDA on these guys for a few hours...

Honestly, I cant decide if you are dense, inexperienced, or just being argumentative.  In any case, further discussion appears pointless.   I will accept your answer - they are too busy to talk to media.

In any case Aventurine did not show him the full game just a demo version. They also did not give him any more information than they were willing to share at the time. The information he shared was information Aventurine intended to release. And yet I am the one that is dense lol.

NDA coverd material wasn't shared, the NDA was not breached and Yellowbeard was not under the NDA because there was no need for him to be. This is a mute point.

The two visitors were and are under the restrictions of the NDA.  I am wondering if you may be dense or inexperienced or simply arguementative.

You shared an opinion, I shared facts that directly contradicted your opinion. You still are trying to hold fast to your opinion so I guess further discussion is mute as well.

The answer of them being to buisy at the moment is just my opinion with nothing to back it up. That you can take merely as my opinion. Yours on this matter is just as valid because I have absolutely nothing to back it up. While I do think it is a reasonable assumption that they are a bit to buisy at the moment I do not make the assumption this is fact and will willingly accept evidence to the contrary, A valid counter arguement is the fact they are willing to do on site preview and reviews for media. This is a good point but not enough to directly refute my opinion but it helps support  a view opposite of mine.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

In any case Aventurine did not show him the full game just a demo version. They also did not give him any more information than they were willing to share at the time. The information he shared was information Aventurine intended to release. And yet I am the one that is dense lol.

NDA coverd material wasn't shared, the NDA was not breached and Yellowbeard was not under the NDA because there was no need for him to be. This is a mute point.

The two visitors were and are under the restrictions of the NDA.  I am wondering if you may be dense or inexperienced or simply arguementative.

You shared an opinion, I shared facts that directly contradicted your opinion. You still are trying to hold fast to your opinion so I guess further discussion is mute as well.

The answer of them being to buisy at the moment is just my opinion with nothing to back it up. That you can take merely as my opinion. Yours on this matter is just as valid because I have absolutely nothing to back it up. While I do think it is a reasonable assumption that they are a bit to buisy at the moment I do not make the assumption this is fact and will willingly accept evidence to the contrary, A valid counter arguement is the fact they are willing to do on site preview and reviews for media. This is a good point but not enough to directly refute my opinion but it helps support  a view opposite of mine.

The word you are looking for is: moot.  No time or inclination for further education, but I hope that helps get you started.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

In any case Aventurine did not show him the full game just a demo version. They also did not give him any more information than they were willing to share at the time. The information he shared was information Aventurine intended to release. And yet I am the one that is dense lol.

NDA coverd material wasn't shared, the NDA was not breached and Yellowbeard was not under the NDA because there was no need for him to be. This is a mute point.

The two visitors were and are under the restrictions of the NDA.  I am wondering if you may be dense or inexperienced or simply arguementative.

You shared an opinion, I shared facts that directly contradicted your opinion. You still are trying to hold fast to your opinion so I guess further discussion is mute as well.

The answer of them being to buisy at the moment is just my opinion with nothing to back it up. That you can take merely as my opinion. Yours on this matter is just as valid because I have absolutely nothing to back it up. While I do think it is a reasonable assumption that they are a bit to buisy at the moment I do not make the assumption this is fact and will willingly accept evidence to the contrary, A valid counter arguement is the fact they are willing to do on site preview and reviews for media. This is a good point but not enough to directly refute my opinion but it helps support  a view opposite of mine.

 

The word you are looking for is: moot.  No time or inclination for further education, but I hope that helps get you started.

Well I appreciate that, sorry I used the wrong spelling lol watchi9ng Jeff Dunhams Christmas  special while typing lol.

I will return the favor though, your reply is what is commonly reffered to as a last ditch effort to save face.

 Edited to add: Seems like we are getting no update on this today, it is thanksgiving after all so understandable. Anyways hope MMORPG.com does clear this up one way or another.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Well I appreciate that, sorry I used the wrong spelling lol watchi9ng Jeff Dunhams Christmas  special while typing lol.

I will return the favor though, your reply is what is commonly reffered to as a last ditch effort to save face.

 Edited to add: Seems like we are getting no update on this today, it is thanksgiving after all so understandable. Anyways hope MMORPG.com does clear this up one way or another.

Got some more time, so here you go - the words "mute" and "moot" are completely different words, with different meanings.  You did not misspell anything, you used the wrong word. 

Last ditch effort to save face?  If that makes you feel better.  I am confident those that matter understood my points, and if you dont, I can live with it. 

To Ghost, I strongly doubt that Aventurine has a "demo" version of Darkfall that they allow testers to fool around on.  I don't have much evidence to go on, but I would think it would take a decent amount of manpower to create a demo version of the game they've in production.

I honestly don't know.  But I really don't think Aventurine has a strong grasp on their game.  Handing two reviewers something as unpolished as the last movie was, is a stupid move.  To me, arguing that Aventurine has a good handle on Darkfall, is like saying American car manufacturers have a good handle on what the consumer wants (almost a direct correlation there too ).

I'm not one to think that if I believe, everything will turn out alright, and right now it takes a lot of faith to be as overly optimistic as you are.  (Having said this, your explanation from last night makes sense to me)

In a form, this is one of those posts to warn you not to get your hopes up too high.  You've said you wouldn't and haven't...But, I just don't see how someone can be optimistic, without putting their concern at stake.