Originally posted by zymurgeist

They have rules. Obey them scrupulously and you need never worry about getting banned. I don't buy  "the mods are out to get me" claims from anyone. If you gpot a warning or a ban you deserved it. If ypou don't think so you need to think harder about why you were banned. The best way to avaoid probelms is to stick to issues and leave personalities at the door. Don't keep starting useless threads that are just repeating the same thing over and over.  Don't say anything to or about someone you would expect to start a fight if they were standing right next to you. A little courtesy and common sense go a long way.

While MMORPG isn't about to bite the hand that feed it you can look at the AOC forums then the AoC ads and see they're obviously not being bought off. Odds are this site makes more each year than Darkfall will after launch. Aventurine can't afford what it would take to buy MMORPG's favor.

The problem is that rules are almost always subject to interpretation. One mods ban is another mods warning. In fact Ive had a few bans reversed.(Shout out to Kunou)

Its really up to the disgression of the moderator, and no ones perfect.

I actually have a question for some of you who have admitted to repeatedly bashing fanbois or defending a game against a troll. If you wouldn't mind going to this thread and answering as I am geuninely curious what makes someone do that. I didn't want to post it here since it's off topic from what the OP was originally asking.

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by zymurgeist

They have rules. Obey them scrupulously and you need never worry about getting banned. I don't buy  "the mods are out to get me" claims from anyone. If you gpot a warning or a ban you deserved it. If ypou don't think so you need to think harder about why you were banned. The best way to avaoid probelms is to stick to issues and leave personalities at the door. Don't keep starting useless threads that are just repeating the same thing over and over.  Don't say anything to or about someone you would expect to start a fight if they were standing right next to you. A little courtesy and common sense go a long way.

While MMORPG isn't about to bite the hand that feed it you can look at the AOC forums then the AoC ads and see they're obviously not being bought off. Odds are this site makes more each year than Darkfall will after launch. Aventurine can't afford what it would take to buy MMORPG's favor.

 

The problem is that rules are almost always subject to interpretation. One mods ban is another mods warning. In fact Ive had a few bans reversed.(Shout out to Kunou)

Its really up to the disgression of the moderator, and no ones perfect.

If you're close enough to the line that disgression enters into it you're not being sufficiently careful in making your point. In fact it's unlikely your point will be recognized at all among the terms in which you've couched it.

Originally posted by Evasia

Op ive been banned 2 times here as a darkfall fan, not becouse i trash talk or become personal and attack others.

No becouse i just attacked the big boys here on mmorpg.com like wow years ago and AoC, becouse trolls vapor shouters where as usual trashing darkfall on GD and here in darkfall forum.

So your far from truth about fans darkfall been protected.

I had a darkfall avatar and had many warnings and eventually banned becouse for  rediculous reasons that is not even ban material, that was not even offended only that wow or AoC was crap when they attacked Darkfall.

Darkfall is by far most attacked and bashed game on MMORPG.COM trolls vapor shouters protected by mmorpg.com staff.

And i know becouse i made new account and saw same person who trash talked and personal attackes where still here and i was banned:P

I come here becouse of darkfall forum besides official but care about this site no not anymore ive had it with mmorpg.com there themepark lovers and you cant say anything negative about there babys they love so much:P

They even aloud and pettion made by darkfall haters to remove darkfall from mmorpg.com that was point i dont give a damn anymore about mmorpg.com.

As i said i come here for darkfall thats all and sometimes for AC.

Wow, I'm terribly sorry to hear you don't give a damn anymore about MMORPG.com....

The petition you mentioned... did it break any of our rules? No, it didn't. I could see your beef if it had worked and we had removed it, but I believe that I told them we would not do that, regardless of the petition.

I took a look at your warnings... you were never given a warning or a ban for having a specific avatar. Still though I can't help but notice that you admitted to having multiple accounts here, which is also an offence and is against our RoC. I'm just sayin'... follow the rules and you won't get banned.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Shannia

Jon,

I know you do a heck of a job and I very much respect your work. 

However, I do have to take exception.  I've been following World of Warcraft from the beginning and have been on these forums for half that time.  To me, it seems that the only time the staff cares that people are bashing WoW is when WoW has a paid advertising campaign going on.  Otherwise, the staff lets people say what they wish about WoW.  As evidence, each of the last two years, the MMORPG.com staff has not even mentioned WoW in any of it's annual award categories.

It may not be intentional, but the staff does have a bias against the most successful MMORPG of all time and again, I noticed it being moderated only at a time when Blizzard is paying for an advertising campaign otherwise, the WoW forums are left alone to the trolls.

 

I think that your accusation of bias is out of line. Blizzard has not in any way been discriminated against by the staff of this stie.

You say WoW wasn't mentioned in the awards of the last two years:

It received an honorable mention in the 2006 Editor's choice awards

Also in 2006, it was nominated for Reader's choice categories - Favorite graphics (3rd), Favorite PvE (2nd),  Favorite PvP (2nd), Favorite Story (2nd), favorite Game (2nd)

In 2007 - It WON Best paid Expansion, It WON best Fantasy Game and it came second in best Overall game.

The game is also currently one of our most frequently covered games.

While I appreciate what you said about my work, I still think it's unfair to make accusations that are CLEARLY not based in fact.

 

 

Jon, that is what I mean.  2006.  It has been two years.  For the 2007 and 2008 Editor's Choice awards, WoW wasn't even mentioned.  Readers Choice, yes... Editor's Choice, not even mentioned.

Sorry, i didn't see your response to my post.

If I'm wrong, my apologies ahead of time.

*edit*  Hey Jon, what happened to the 2007 and 2008 Editor's Choice Award threads?  I distinctly remember going off in one of those threads because of all the categories, WoW wasn't even mentioned once.  Matter of fact, I believe you (or another staff member) even replied to me in that thread.

 

 

Hmm...maybe that's because it didn't DESERVE it? 

Ya, that must be it.  We've been flooded with AAA games that have smash hits out the box.  I mean seriously, look at the list.  Vanguard, LoTRO, TR, POTBS, Fury, AoC, WAR, Hellgate:London... Let me think, of the last two years the ONLY game that has given WoW a run for it's money has been LOTRO.  All the rest of them have complete launch failures compared to the hype that preceded it, with the exception of WAR and it is just too early to tell about that game.  Seriously, AoC with their 150k subscriptions, I'm impressed.  Other than WAR and LOTRO, none of the rest break 500,000 concurrent subscribers with some even shutting down.  So don't sit here and tell me that the last two years WoW has not deserved any Editor's Choice awards because they've had no competition with the exception of LOTRO.  WAR should have been good competition, but with WoW and LOTRO bring out expansions during WAR launch period, WAR is hurting.  Hopefully, by this time next year some of these games can get some traction.

Yes, I do hope DFO is successful.  We need more games to make it. 

Originally posted by Shannia

Ya, that must be it.  We've been flooded with AAA games that have smash hits out the box.  I mean seriously, look at the list.  Vanguard, LoTRO, TR, POTBS, Fury, AoC, WAR, Hellgate:London... Let me think, of the last two years the ONLY game that has given WoW a run for it's money has been LOTRO.  All the rest of them have complete launch failures compared to the hype that preceded it, with the exception of WAR and it is just too early to tell about that game.  Seriously, AoC with their 150k subscriptions, I'm impressed.  Other than WAR and LOTRO, none of the rest break 500,000 concurrent subscribers with some even shutting down.  So don't sit here and tell me that the last two years WoW has not deserved any Editor's Choice awards because they've had no competition with the exception of LOTRO.  WAR should have been good competition, but with WoW and LOTRO bring out expansions during WAR launch period, WAR is hurting.  Hopefully, by this time next year some of these games can get some traction.

Yes, I do hope DFO is successful.  We need more games to make it. 

Please learn to delete other peoples quotes that you are not primarily responding to. It's a lot of unessecery clutter.

Anyways does WoW really need the award? Everyone knows how big of a success it is. Do you need confirmation that it is?

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by Focker

 holding them to the same standard as those of us who they bait into bannable situations.

 

Im sorry but I find just funny.  Baiting you in?  They where probebly talking about how they can't wait for Darkfall to release and how excited they were about a possible open beta .  Sounds like some mean baiting if you ask me.

 

Actually you resorted to calling me names in one particular post, and when I responded without use of a single attack or negative response, I got a warning for it. No name calling, no personal attacks, in fact all I said was:

"I dont think my parents would want me picking up strapping studs on the internet. Wait studs on the internet, is that an oxymoron?"

Thats it, thats all I said, and BOOM, warning for retaliation. Even though you started it with name calling and personal attacks, Im the one that got a warning? Go figure.

Im sure your intelligent enough to know what they say about people who assume right?  Dont  think your the only person who got a warning.  I knew better, but i guess i was "baited" into replying.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Shannia

Jon,

I know you do a heck of a job and I very much respect your work. 

However, I do have to take exception.  I've been following World of Warcraft from the beginning and have been on these forums for half that time.  To me, it seems that the only time the staff cares that people are bashing WoW is when WoW has a paid advertising campaign going on.  Otherwise, the staff lets people say what they wish about WoW.  As evidence, each of the last two years, the MMORPG.com staff has not even mentioned WoW in any of it's annual award categories.

It may not be intentional, but the staff does have a bias against the most successful MMORPG of all time and again, I noticed it being moderated only at a time when Blizzard is paying for an advertising campaign otherwise, the WoW forums are left alone to the trolls.

 

I think that your accusation of bias is out of line. Blizzard has not in any way been discriminated against by the staff of this stie.

You say WoW wasn't mentioned in the awards of the last two years:

It received an honorable mention in the 2006 Editor's choice awards

Also in 2006, it was nominated for Reader's choice categories - Favorite graphics (3rd), Favorite PvE (2nd),  Favorite PvP (2nd), Favorite Story (2nd), favorite Game (2nd)

In 2007 - It WON Best paid Expansion, It WON best Fantasy Game and it came second in best Overall game.

The game is also currently one of our most frequently covered games.

While I appreciate what you said about my work, I still think it's unfair to make accusations that are CLEARLY not based in fact.

 

 

Jon, that is what I mean.  2006.  It has been two years.  For the 2007 and 2008 Editor's Choice awards, WoW wasn't even mentioned.  Readers Choice, yes... Editor's Choice, not even mentioned.

Sorry, i didn't see your response to my post.

If I'm wrong, my apologies ahead of time.

*edit*  Hey Jon, what happened to the 2007 and 2008 Editor's Choice Award threads?  I distinctly remember going off in one of those threads because of all the categories, WoW wasn't even mentioned once.  Matter of fact, I believe you (or another staff member) even replied to me in that thread.

 

 

Hmm...maybe that's because it didn't DESERVE it? 

 

Ya, that must be it.  We've been flooded with AAA games that have smash hits out the box.  I mean seriously, look at the list.  Vanguard, LoTRO, TR, POTBS, Fury, AoC, WAR, Hellgate:London... Let me think, of the last two years the ONLY game that has given WoW a run for it's money has been LOTRO.  All the rest of them have complete launch failures compared to the hype that preceded it, with the exception of WAR and it is just too early to tell about that game.  Seriously, AoC with their 150k subscriptions, I'm impressed.  Other than WAR and LOTRO, none of the rest break 500,000 concurrent subscribers with some even shutting down.  So don't sit here and tell me that the last two years WoW has not deserved any Editor's Choice awards because they've had no competition with the exception of LOTRO.  WAR should have been good competition, but with WoW and LOTRO bring out expansions during WAR launch period, WAR is hurting.  Hopefully, by this time next year some of these games can get some traction.

Yes, I do hope DFO is successful.  We need more games to make it. 

Just because 2 games had bad launch to hype ratios (Vanguard and AoC, Vangurd of which, has come back full swing since then) doesn't have any correlation to WoW's quality, or deserving of awards. 

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Shannia

Jon,

I know you do a heck of a job and I very much respect your work. 

However, I do have to take exception.  I've been following World of Warcraft from the beginning and have been on these forums for half that time.  To me, it seems that the only time the staff cares that people are bashing WoW is when WoW has a paid advertising campaign going on.  Otherwise, the staff lets people say what they wish about WoW.  As evidence, each of the last two years, the MMORPG.com staff has not even mentioned WoW in any of it's annual award categories.

It may not be intentional, but the staff does have a bias against the most successful MMORPG of all time and again, I noticed it being moderated only at a time when Blizzard is paying for an advertising campaign otherwise, the WoW forums are left alone to the trolls.

 

I think that your accusation of bias is out of line. Blizzard has not in any way been discriminated against by the staff of this stie.

You say WoW wasn't mentioned in the awards of the last two years:

It received an honorable mention in the 2006 Editor's choice awards

Also in 2006, it was nominated for Reader's choice categories - Favorite graphics (3rd), Favorite PvE (2nd),  Favorite PvP (2nd), Favorite Story (2nd), favorite Game (2nd)

In 2007 - It WON Best paid Expansion, It WON best Fantasy Game and it came second in best Overall game.

The game is also currently one of our most frequently covered games.

While I appreciate what you said about my work, I still think it's unfair to make accusations that are CLEARLY not based in fact.

 

 

Jon, that is what I mean.  2006.  It has been two years.  For the 2007 and 2008 Editor's Choice awards, WoW wasn't even mentioned.  Readers Choice, yes... Editor's Choice, not even mentioned.

Sorry, i didn't see your response to my post.

If I'm wrong, my apologies ahead of time.

*edit*  Hey Jon, what happened to the 2007 and 2008 Editor's Choice Award threads?  I distinctly remember going off in one of those threads because of all the categories, WoW wasn't even mentioned once.  Matter of fact, I believe you (or another staff member) even replied to me in that thread.

Hey man, my memory might be leaving me, but I'm pretty sure we didn't do an editor's choice awards for 2007. Instead, we picked the nominees for the awards (where WoW was indeed nominated a COUPLE of times).

And 2008.... hasn't come around yet, although keep an eye out for this year's nominations... Yes WoW will be nominated again at least for best overall game and favorite new paid expansion.

Jon,

Thank you for taking the time to check into the situation.  Again, if I was wrong, my apologies.  I don't know what the hell I was thinking talking about WoW in a DFO forum.  I was just asking to get rolled over.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by SuperCrap

I had a thought that the forums on this site might be sponsored by game companies.  Mmorpg.com is and always has been dependent on sponsorship from a lot of game companies, hence the prominent advertising all over their site.

 

What got me thinking about this was the uneven treatment here of Darkfall, how the mmorpg.com people including moderators act as if they are Darkfall fanboys, but for no apparent reason.  Posters critical of Darkfall are frequently warned and banned, but the Darkfall fanboys are encouraged to do the same things, and rarely if ever sanctioned for constantly attacking those skeptical of the game, etc.

 

It occurred to me that the games list, both for the Released Games and the Games in Development is rather incomplete.  There doesn't seem to be any particular effort at comprehensiveness.  Perhaps this is a "pay for play" system, i.e. games only get coverage at mmorpg.com if they pay to be covered here?  [And if it is not a secret and everyone knows this is how mmorpg.com works already, then sorry, I didn't realize it before.]

 

From what I can recall, even going back several years, I was always surprised at how MMORPG.com doesn't cover a lot of games, and that was one of the reasons why I never have taken this site too seriously.  It seems a bit "filtered", like a pay for play radio station where the songs that get played are not the ones that everyone loves or the ones the DJ thinks are great, but the ones that a music company payed him to play, basically all advertising.  Of course they still cover the biggest games no matter what, like World of Warcraft, but it is the small and obscure games, the ones like Darkfall, that the coverage here seems to be... a bit weird.

 

Just a thought, but it would go a long way to explaining this site's attitude towads Darkfall, and peculiar bias, and constantly bending over backwards in order to please Darkfall developers, when almost all professional gaming sites such as ign stopped covering Darkfall years ago.

 

Wrong. Just... wrong.

We do out best to be as comprehensive as possible, but I would like to remind you that we have a very small staff working here. Onme of the smallest in fact, among gaming sites. We do our best to keep everything as up-to-date as possible, but somet5imes things slip through the cracks. We rely a lot on volunteer information as well. Care to give some of your time?

If you have a list of games that we are misssing, please feel free to shoot me an email: editor@mmorpg.com and let me know.

As for people paying to be on the site... That is frankly a stupid statement. Give me specific examples of when you feel that our moderators (who are also volunteers by the way) have stepped out of line and our Community Manager will investigate. That's part of his job.

I wouldn't say that we have been bending over backwards for Darkfall. In fact, many fans of the game accuse us of exactly the opposite. The fact of the matter is that we have seen no proof either way as to this game's future and we're not going to remove a game from our list based on rumor and conjecture any more than we are going to add a game on the same basis.

Hope that clears things up for you.

 

Hi Jon,

Thank you for your reply(s).  Everything you said seems fair and is more than polite, and I would like to apologize for casting aspersions against your site and for being so rude.

Looking at the games you cover again, I am quite impressed at how comprehensive you guys are, actually, so I was wrong about that.  I was mixed up by the list of forums on the side, which is much more selective...  and I am a bit curious (if you still feel like bothering with this thread) how you decide which game forums get listed on the side?  Is it just according to which ones have the most activity?

I guess that would actually explain why Darkfall is still up there, lol.  But if there is some other criteria, then it does make me wonder how Darkfall has remained on that exclusive list for all these years, so that is the root source of where my overreactive suspicions came from.

As far as moderator bias towards Darkfall goes, I gues what sparked it for me just recently is the stickied thread above about the Darkfall NDA [ http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/212199 ], which said among other things, if I can paraphrase since it was edited heavily since then, "even if you hear something about Darkfall beta you cannot talk about it without violating the NDA and being eaten by a pit of lions" and went on to imply that users who just heard stuff about Darkfall beta and posted here would be subject to severe penalties for violating Darkfall's NDA.  It was just a bizarre thread to be created and stickied by a moderator when it was not based on anything official about the game, but this sparked my memory of other stickied threads in the past that always indicated a bias to me.

However, I am sure your explanation is correct that there is no real bias but only perceived bias; moderators are just people too who can make dumb posts at times, and overall as evidenced by this thread in particular, you all seem quite fair I have to admit now [while eating a small plateful of crow].

So, apologies again, and thanks for taking time out to calm the troubled waters in this contentious corner of your site community, eheh.

Peace.

SC