Inat, you are only doing this to keep your post count above mine....like you do on all the other boards :(

Seriously though...grats on the position and that was a nice summary.  Look forward to more...and I'm sure I'll see you back in game...one day :P

Hubbard, it's a great article! Thanks!

We got in on SWG right at the "end" back in the day, when things apparently were falling apart, though we didnt know it at the time. Frankly we were quite lost, and seemed to get more and more lost every time we returned to the game, no doubt as these changes were being made. Being SW fans, we held out hope that one day it would all fall into place. YAY for us, and for you! 

Originally posted by shava

I'll stick with my resolution -- never giving SOE a dime.  Nor the population number support they'd get from me coming back for a month.  But enjoy!  Each to his own.

 

Shava

Im with you.

SOE wont get any of my money ever again for any MMO until they can prove that another NGE wont happen.

The article fails on one serious issue....

MMO's are about investing time and money into your avatar. SOE blatently and purposely violated this cardinal rule of MMO's. Why should I ever play any of their MMO's again if theyre willing to take my subscription money and in essence steal it ? I and 200,000 other players had our money used to create the abomination of the NGE.

It still pisses me off that current NGE players are enjoying a game developed on my stolen dime. And I dont care how long it takes, SOE gets nothing until Smedley is gone and I see real changes in how they treat players

Originally posted by admriker4

Im with you.

SOE wont get any of my money ever again for any MMO until they can prove that another NGE wont happen.

The article fails on one serious issue....

MMO's are about investing time and money into your avatar. SOE blatently and purposely violated this cardinal rule of MMO's. Why should I ever play any of their MMO's again if theyre willing to take my subscription money and in essence steal it ? I and 200,000 other players had our money used to create the abomination of the NGE.

It still pisses me off that current NGE players are enjoying a game developed on my stolen dime. And I dont care how long it takes, SOE gets nothing until Smedley is gone and I see real changes in how they treat players

LOL - I never even thought of that... I was just unhappy they killed my game! But that they even did it with my money? They're really clever, they are!

They never cease to impress me ^^

And isn't there a rule against cursing in the forum conduct thingy or something? You said the Sm-word...

HAH

HAHAH

HAHAHAH

This is assuming that any % of true vets rly want to come back to the game. 

NEVER

All true SWG vets are here:

www.swtor.com

anxiously awaiting a game of true quality. Don't believe me, look at the "SWG Server Reunion" threads. Hundreds if not thousands of people from each pre-CU server have checked in.

And a q: why would they need to consolidate the player base w/ free transfers? Because subscriptions are bare-minimum, and they're trying to shave overhead costs, because...

SWG = DEAD

Originally posted by Niccolado

For me, just the thought of returning to SWG just makes me sick! And I really mean it! After 3 years in that game, with hundreds of hours spent on it, I simply cant stand the game anymore, since my relationship to it levels the same you could have with a cheating ex-girlfriend! Not good!

Which is very sad!

SWG had everything! A good story, a good technical platform, immersion, possibility of going deep into the game with specializing, A very well made crafting system, a very well made combat system, Lots of characters/classes with depht, a working goal! Something different then just killing another high ranking mob! Posibillity of achieving something! JEDI! A thorougly done PvP system, A thoroughly done PvE system etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. To sum it up: the game had a bright future!

Until the NGE.

The technical platform changed. Including the combat system! Now it was all twitch/FPS. Crafting system went to hell. And with no decay no need to craft. Game and Class immersion and depth dissapeared. Jedi got a all-round standard! Classes got removed and simplified. There are so many other things too, most I have thankfully forgotten. Except for one thing: my hate towards SOE who had ruined my gaming experience! After 3  years with god know how many hours spend there - more hours then which is good for me...many days with 17 hours while getting my jedi - I simply cant return! I have done it a few times, but I stopped doing that when I was close to throwing up!

HOW CAN I RETURN TO SOMEONE WHO BETRAYED ME?? SOMEONE WHO DID NOT LISTEN TO ME , MY FRIENDS, AND FELLOW PLAYERS WHO SAID THAT THIS WAS REALLY BAD FOR THE GAME??? HECK! THEY EVEN BANNED US INSTEAD OF TAKING THE BLOODY DISCUSSION!!

They could throw a year free subscription my way, I would not even log in to the game! Its dead! Call it whatever you like NGE II; im permanently gone!

SWG is dead! However the wound is still there! And its deep! The money is not a object, but my investment in that game is! Or, should I say was! Thankfully I found solace in CCP's EVE ONLINE. At least those devs knows how to listen, and  how to treat their fellow gamers! I have been there for three years now, and there are no NGE to be seen on the horizon in that game! :)

So thanks for me.

 

You know what I don't understand?  After 3-4 years people are still pissed about SOE......they still post and outnumber the current players......and not one company has tried to copy SWG!!!!!

I mean if people are STILL talking about a game they quit years ago wouldn't you think SOMEONE would say "Hey, everyone does a WOW clone....and we could be one of those people, but lets try and make ourselves the number 2 game by totally ripping off every good idea SWG had".  

You would think at least one company would try

Originally posted by caine6621

 

You know what I don't understand?  After 3-4 years people are still pissed about SOE......they still post and outnumber the current players......and not one company has tried to copy SWG!!!!!

 

I mean if people are STILL talking about a game they quit years ago wouldn't you think SOMEONE would say "Hey, everyone does a WOW clone....and we could be one of those people, but lets try and make ourselves the number 2 game by totally ripping off every good idea SWG had".  

 

You would think at least one company would try

Follow Raph Koster work.  He is helping a new startup and may impliment more of his ideas there.

Why hasn't another company made a Pre-CU like game?  Because the market as a whole identified that world simulators "sandbox" MMORPG's appeal to a smaller market of mature achievers.  The simpler Linear game MMO should appeal to the younger quick gratification Larger Market that is identfied with WOW's success.  Look at the sub numbers on MMOChart.com and compare.  SWG 275-300k subs at best to WOW's 11 Million.  IP holders don't care to take risks on MMO experiments.  They only want to capitalize on thier property with tried and succesful games systems.  Its the selling " a box" mentality that is killing this market instead of realizing that MMO's are social organisms that can grow if properly developed and expanded within thier understandable limits.  One of the biggest mistakes of all these companies is trying to make a game that appeals to "everyone" instead of the fans of that IP or genere.

To the SOE haters, remember  that SOE developes and runs SWG.  Lucas Arts approves, promotes and markets the game based on thier market research.  LA even handles the Tech Support seperate from SOE's other games.  "Hand-in-hand" these two companies made SWG what you despise today.  Practices on both sides are at falt.  SWTOR has a good start with a fresh company with learned lessons.  It has the benefit of being a property spawned from a PC Game and a prior success to the company (KOTOR) just like Warcraft.  The downfall, however, will be the lack of "sandbox" elements that prevails in the current market.  The positive side of SWTOR is the introduction of story directed content by the top developer of the format which seems a natural step in MMO tech.

I think the main point that this article failed to consider, that there really is no game for a veteran to really return to.  The changes made by SOE completely destroyed the player driven economy and they have completely failed to address that mistake in any patch since.

As to this SWTOR comment:

"The positive side of SWTOR is the introduction of story directed content by the top developer of the format which seems a natural step in MMO tech. "

If Lotro is not strong story driven content, I don't know what is.  So I have to disagree that anything Bioware is doing is anything innovative, but we will have to wait and see what they come up with.  I have reservations that the game will be just another jedi themepark, which will be fine with many  people, just won't be much to reconcile the SWG vets.

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 Contrary to what some may think, vets ARE returning, even without the "free" incentive.

Then this begs the question who are they replacing because It's been my experience that the server listings have not increased within the last year. In fact it looks to me that it's declined somewhat - especially since last May.

Is there a revolving door of subscriptions with SWG? If so this doesn't give a good impression of the status of this game.

I hear some people say that many vets are returning but my friends list is certainly empty. And so is my buddy's firends list that is quite long as he was the mayor of our city and kept an extensive list of citizens and ex-citizens. I don't think he ever removed a single name from his list from June'03 to Nov'05.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 Contrary to what some may think, vets ARE returning, even without the "free" incentive.

 

Then this begs the question who are they replacing because It's been my experience that the server listings have not increased within the last year. In fact it looks to me that it's declined somewhat - especially since last May.

Is there a revolving door of subscriptions with SWG? If so this doesn't give a good impression of the status of this game.

I hear some people say that many vets are returning but my friends list is certainly empty. And so is my buddy's firends list that is quite long as he was the mayor of our city and kept an extensive list of citizens and ex-citizens. I don't think he ever removed a single name from his list from June'03 to Nov'05.

they're not replacing anyone; they're joining the existing community made up of vets who never left, new players, and vets who have returned. The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself. There is certainly no denying that there are dead servers and that the community is taking it upon itself to consolidate on 5-10 core servers depending on their timezone and playstyle. Just last night, we had maybe 20v20 pvp that ended up breaking up into several instance groups. The community is there - its just not where you remember it being.

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

 The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself.

Can you explain how it is not a good measure?

And BTW I've had 1/4 of both last year and this year to play for free. I have checked it out myself.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

 The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself.

 

Can you explain how it is not a good measure?

And BTW I've had 1/4 of both last year and this year to play for free. I have checked it out myself.

It may be because SOE keeps lowering the number the indicators represent

and fyi there aren't 5-10 core servers there are the 3 rp servers left that are the ones worth playing on

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

 The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself.

 

Can you explain how it is not a good measure?

And BTW I've had 1/4 of both last year and this year to play for free. I have checked it out myself.

 

It may be because SOE keeps lowering the number the indicators represent

and fyi there aren't 5-10 core servers there are the 3 rp servers left that are the ones worth playing on

Well, if they are doing that then why wouldn't they change the status of the very many servers that are showing as "very light" - the absolute lowest it can show without being "offline"?

It may have happened shortly after the NGE but I really don't think it has changed since then, but the possibility is always there of course : )

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

 The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself.

 

Can you explain how it is not a good measure?

And BTW I've had 1/4 of both last year and this year to play for free. I have checked it out myself.

 

It may be because SOE keeps lowering the number the indicators represent

and fyi there aren't 5-10 core servers there are the 3 rp servers left that are the ones worth playing on

yah those indicators have always been a very loose representation of the server population AT THAT EXACT MOMENT

chilastra, starsider, bloodfin, bria, euro-farstar, euro-chimaera, ahazi, and flurry are all considered decently populated servers

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

yah those indicators have always been a very loose representation of the server population AT THAT EXACT MOMENT

chilastra, starsider, bloodfin, bria, euro-farstar, euro-chimaera, ahazi, and flurry are all considered decently populated servers

But if you look at the exact same moment over time, say over a year, does that not make it a much clearer indicator?

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

yah those indicators have always been a very loose representation of the server population AT THAT EXACT MOMENT

chilastra, starsider, bloodfin, bria, euro-farstar, euro-chimaera, ahazi, and flurry are all considered decently populated servers

 

But if you look at the exact same moment over time, say over a year, does that not make it a much clearer indicator?

 

not really b/c you dont know the range for each. I think the only good way to do is to do a census on each server. Determing its 'prime time' and log in every day for 30-60 days and use the group finder to get a count of players on line at that time. Of course it will be slightly skewed b.c a lot of players choose to be anonymous

I do get your point though and admit that there are some dead servers. Even SOE knows that now and will be offering free servertransfers
 

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

yah those indicators have always been a very loose representation of the server population AT THAT EXACT MOMENT

chilastra, starsider, bloodfin, bria, euro-farstar, euro-chimaera, ahazi, and flurry are all considered decently populated servers

 

But if you look at the exact same moment over time, say over a year, does that not make it a much clearer indicator?

 

not really b/c you dont know the range for each. I think the only good way to do is to do a census on each server. Determing its 'prime time' and log in every day for 30-60 days and use the group finder to get a count of players on line at that time. Of course it will be slightly skewed b.c a lot of players choose to be anonymous

I do get your point though and admit that there are some dead servers. Even SOE knows that now and will be offering free servertransfers
 

Damn, I think I hit cancel rather then submit when I finished writing a resonse. Let me try this again.

It's actually much more simple then that. First make an assumption of what the max server capacity is then divide by 6 for the different server rankings (i.e. very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavey, extremely heavey and full). That should be a very rudimentory (but accurate IMO) of the ranges for a server. Funny thing is some people have done exactly what you described and came out with the approximate number I specified in corespondance to the server status.

But then again it's not about ""some dead servers". Its about the 15 plus servers out of 25 that are showing up as "very light". And the handful appearing at medium, with 1 (sometimes possibly 2) servers showing up as heavy.  This is not a good indication of health IMO.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

yah those indicators have always been a very loose representation of the server population AT THAT EXACT MOMENT

chilastra, starsider, bloodfin, bria, euro-farstar, euro-chimaera, ahazi, and flurry are all considered decently populated servers

 

But if you look at the exact same moment over time, say over a year, does that not make it a much clearer indicator?

 

not really b/c you dont know the range for each. I think the only good way to do is to do a census on each server. Determing its 'prime time' and log in every day for 30-60 days and use the group finder to get a count of players on line at that time. Of course it will be slightly skewed b.c a lot of players choose to be anonymous

I do get your point though and admit that there are some dead servers. Even SOE knows that now and will be offering free servertransfers
 

 

Damn, I think I hit cancel rather then submit when I finished writing a resonse. Let me try this again.

It's actually much more simple then that. First make an assumption of what the max server capacity is then divide by 6 for the different server rankings (i.e. very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavey, extremely heavey and full). That should be a very rudimentory (but accurate IMO) of the ranges for a server. Funny thing is some people have done exactly what you described and came out with the approximate number I specified in corespondance to the server status.

But then again it's not about ""some dead servers". Its about the 15 plus servers out of 25 that are showing up as "very light". And the handful appearing at medium, with 1 (sometimes possibly 2) servers showing up as heavy.  This is not a good indication of health IMO.

I totally don't trust those screens.  It's a better measure to load into Mos Eisley and see how many newbs are running around.  Inat is correct on the servers he indicates, however.  They do seem the most active.  The new search features are helpful but are limited to 25-30 in a given search at random.  Landing at popular spots like Restuus and Mos Eisley and talking with those you find is a better indication.  Another good note is to see how much active drama is happening on that servers forum board.  You can know then if someone is there.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

I think the main point that this article failed to consider, that there really is no game for a veteran to really return to.  The changes made by SOE completely destroyed the player driven economy and they have completely failed to address that mistake in any patch since.

As to this SWTOR comment:

"The positive side of SWTOR is the introduction of story directed content by the top developer of the format which seems a natural step in MMO tech. "

If Lotro is not strong story driven content, I don't know what is.  So I have to disagree that anything Bioware is doing is anything innovative, but we will have to wait and see what they come up with.  I have reservations that the game will be just another jedi themepark, which will be fine with many  people, just won't be much to reconcile the SWG vets.

Thank you for quoting me.

There is a game there but its just not as vets remember.  Some measures have been made to correct the economy as of late.  Both Weapons and Armor have been made avaible to "Deconstruct" (turn back into a schmatic) and be made by a Munitions crafter with the best resources of that server.  Further, an additional level of Mods outside of the Reverse Engineering system can also be applied.  This allows some looted and awarded gear to be viable as Master Level equipment.  What the current Lead Developer "Loche" is hoping to achieve is awareded gear that is ready to use when gained but could be rebuilt for improvement.

As to your comment on the quote, what I understand is the story driven content is much more the Lotro.  Your decisions guide the direction of what content you get.  Further, your decisions guide how NPCs react to you.

Additionally, SWTOR is suppose to have a Pet System that is unique as well.  How you talk to your pet, droid, troops will govern how they react and serve you.

For me, I am also sceptable about how good SWTOR will be.  First strike for me is its just not the time period I want to play in.  Im old school.  Second strike is I just don't trust the market trend to make easy games.  I like having to achieve a goal with hard work that is of equal value.  I also have a dim view of IP MMO's now.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

 

yah those indicators have always been a very loose representation of the server population AT THAT EXACT MOMENT

chilastra, starsider, bloodfin, bria, euro-farstar, euro-chimaera, ahazi, and flurry are all considered decently populated servers

 

But if you look at the exact same moment over time, say over a year, does that not make it a much clearer indicator?

 

not really b/c you dont know the range for each. I think the only good way to do is to do a census on each server. Determing its 'prime time' and log in every day for 30-60 days and use the group finder to get a count of players on line at that time. Of course it will be slightly skewed b.c a lot of players choose to be anonymous

I do get your point though and admit that there are some dead servers. Even SOE knows that now and will be offering free servertransfers
 

 

Damn, I think I hit cancel rather then submit when I finished writing a resonse. Let me try this again.

It's actually much more simple then that. First make an assumption of what the max server capacity is then divide by 6 for the different server rankings (i.e. very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavey, extremely heavey and full). That should be a very rudimentory (but accurate IMO) of the ranges for a server. Funny thing is some people have done exactly what you described and came out with the approximate number I specified in corespondance to the server status.

But then again it's not about ""some dead servers". Its about the 15 plus servers out of 25 that are showing up as "very light". And the handful appearing at medium, with 1 (sometimes possibly 2) servers showing up as heavy.  This is not a good indication of health IMO.

 

I totally don't trust those screens.  It's a better measure to load into Mos Eisley and see how many newbs are running around Sorry but that only indicates the number on free trials .  Inat is correct on the servers he indicates, however.  They do seem the most active.  The new search features are helpful but are limited to 25-30 in a given search at random.  Landing at popular spots like U need to look at the num of 90's in Restuus and Mos Eisley and talking with those you find is a better indication.  Another good note is to see how much active drama is happening on that servers forum board.  You can know then if someone is there.

I played on EU-Farstar (med server)and could regularly see the heady number of maybe 50 actual subs online at peak times when i left and this just doesn't leave enough ppl around to do the heroic grind properly

and would honestly put the pop of the med server i was on at under  500  from personal experience(it's hard to give an actual figure because of all those on free trial, free vet and with more than 1 account)

and before gutboy says it NO there wasn't anybody hidden in instances