I'm starting to get more and more confused about what exactly MMORPG players want these days. When it has grinding they say "oh another grind fest" and when it has quests they call is "quest grinding" !

It seems to me that MMORPGs will always have some sort of grinding in them. If people complain about grinding, then why keep playing MMORPGs?

Yes, I know some games over do the grinding and it becomes annoying after a while (e.g.: Lineage 2). Even though I mention Lineage 2, I still had fun grinding when I was grouped with a fun party.

I have to agree that some games have great quests, but  just like someone already said after a while it still turns out to be quest gringing. So I don't get what MMORPG players want exactly !

Originally posted by grimmbot

Originally posted by Tatum
 

I agree.  That's the real problem with MMO quests, they're basically pointless.  IMHO, good MMO questing should offer at least one of two things:

1) The ability to change/effect the game world in some way, even if it mean you're only playing a small part in the over all effort.

2) The ability to do things in a unique/creative way.  That's what an RPG is supposed to be about, not the loot/level/gear/fashion show that the "RPG" title has become associated with.

 

That's just the thing though: questing right now really can't change the world, and it's because of a very basic problem with the way every game's story is presented:

"You Are The Hero"

In a single player game like Fallout 3, You are You. On an MMORPG server, there are thousands of "You", thousands of "The One", thousands of Vault Dwellers, thousands of heroes. Every developer designs quests and tasks under the context of "You Are The Hero... You Must Save Us", but if every player -- now and in the future -- is "The One", how can the world change for the better if "You" are not in it?

Quests can't really go away -- they're part of any story, and any game, no matter how they're made.

However, developers could make some excellent progress if they would start designing games around each player not being "The One", but a soldier in an overall effort, a cog in a wheel, a slice of a pie.

But if the game changes, the quests also have to change -- and it'll take a future generation of MMORPGs with truly dynamic quest-giving systems in combination with game-shifting events before we see a fundamental change to apply that shift of thinking.

Agree 101%!!!

Dynamic quests pull the balance of the world one way, but can be offset by an opposing player who completes his quest and pulls the balance back his way. This dynamic pulling of the balance should make quests repeatable AND fun at the same time. Of course you need some kind of randomness to it so its not always the same old quest. And little twists to the story would help too

I imagine a true dynamic quest system to be much like base capturing in Planetside - the more one side "wins", the harder it is for them to "win" again. This way one side will never dominate another side. Maybe for a very very short time.

This dynamic quest system, however, is totally uncharted territory. It will take some time before someone dares to explore this new system. But once they do, and once they see how good it is, they and the others will keep using it and improving it. Hope I live to see this in my lifetime though :(

Are you people really that dense?

Do you want to go back to the days of EQ and FFXI, finding a group being a chore, and then your entire play consisted of standing in one spot, while the tank pulled mobs to you for hours on end?

Or rather EQ2's style of fight through a dungeon with the tank pulling mobs at you for hours on end.

I honestly don't know what's wrong with you people, you want less content and more grinding?  WoW already has plenty of group activities, instances, pvp, group quests.  But it allows people to actually... PLAY THE GAME. When they don't want to group.

Let me add on a few facts.

1. Being online and playing with people isn't new nor is it revolutionary, "wow, these are all real people running around?"  Yeah they are.  Who cares, I'm online talking to people and browsing the web from my phone in my car.  This isn't anything special.

2. Nobody cares about your areas.  Again it's true.  Group grinding and the like are just XX, we aren't impressed by random huts with random mobs we pull for hours.  Yawn.  Same for random caves and random castles.

3. Roleplay quests.  These are lamer than lame.  You and your crappy stories aren't that interesting, despite how good of a writer you think you are.  And even then all your quests are kill, talk to, or get item. That's it.  Big deal if they involve other players, its still the same thing.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Josher

Blizzard's phasing technology they're testing with WOTLK is the next step.  You can appear to change the world a bit when YOU accomplish a particular goal.  Anyone else that isn't doing the same quest isn't seeing exactly what you're doing, but the world is changing in a way.  It could allow for quests that would kill off particular NPCs for you but not for others that havent' eccomplished the same goals.  So if you release some guy from a cage, he's free forever.  He doesn't just pop back in there for the next player to save over and over again.  Or when you kill a dragon he stays dead in the world forever according to your character, instead of just respawning for the next group to kill.  Or, entire towns could be destroyed, wiped off the map or changed somewhat.  This kind of ruins the concept of a persistent world though since if you and your friend aren't on the same quests, the world around the two of you could be different.  If you want to help someone else do a quest you already finished that does have world changing consequences, what happens?  Do the consequences you already completed reset for you when you're helping someone else?   

Have to agree about the whole Hero thing.  How can you have 10k heroes on a server where every player has the ability to make world changing decisions?  You simply can't.  To me if thats the kind of experience you want, thats what a game like F3 is for.

 

Doesn't do anything for me. I don't want to appear to change the world, I want to change the world.

You destroyed the Bandit Camp! Hurray, look it's in smoking ruins! Not really, because I'm the only one that sees the smoking ruins.

With phasing that's the same as some NPC tells me that, why do I care if I can see a picture of it, if every player can't see the same thing?

The whole point in chaning the world is to have an effect on other players. If it doesn't do that, it's worthless.

enjoy having a empty world with nothing to do because it all gets done by someone and never can be done again.

Well, unless you have a more sandbox type game, where the player content is the game, and yet does not moot other players enjoying both that content and their own content.

Originally posted by Bladin

Are you people really that dense?

Do you want to go back to the days of EQ and FFXI, finding a group being a chore, and then your entire play consisted of standing in one spot, while the tank pulled mobs to you for hours on end?

Or rather EQ2's style of fight through a dungeon with the tank pulling mobs at you for hours on end.

 

I honestly don't know what's wrong with you people, you want less content and more grinding?  WoW already has plenty of group activities, instances, pvp, group quests.  But it allows people to actually... PLAY THE GAME. When they don't want to group.

 

Yes, yes, yes.

If you're not in a group, there is no game. Fed X quests, and Kill X, with stupid stories that do not change the game world?

If I  want to do that, I can play a single player game like Fallout 3 and change the gameworld.

Give players the ability to work together to change the game world. Your "content" is worthless stories that don't change the game world. I'd never waste time on that solo.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Bladin

Are you people really that dense?

Do you want to go back to the days of EQ and FFXI, finding a group being a chore, and then your entire play consisted of standing in one spot, while the tank pulled mobs to you for hours on end?

Or rather EQ2's style of fight through a dungeon with the tank pulling mobs at you for hours on end.

 

I honestly don't know what's wrong with you people, you want less content and more grinding?  WoW already has plenty of group activities, instances, pvp, group quests.  But it allows people to actually... PLAY THE GAME. When they don't want to group.

 

 

Yes, yes, yes.

If you're not in a group, there is no game. Fed X quests, and Kill X, with stupid stories that do not change the game world?

If I  want to do that, I can play a single player game like Fallout 3 and change the gameworld.

Give players the ability to work together to change the game world. Your "content" is worthless stories that don't change the game world. I'd never waste time on that solo.

I love how you say it's a waste of time and doesn't change the world.

Yet you want even LESS world interaction, and LESS things to do.

Change the world?  Stop smoking, there won't ever be a PvE based mmo that allows you to change the world, because it's impossible to design it.

Play fallout 3.  How much fun will you have in 3 months when everythings been done and you are out of the loop and missed almost everything.  All the missions done, the story completed, bosses defeated.

Bottom line: MMO questing is terrible.  There's not really even one positive thing I can say about it.  Grinding mob camps was boring as hell, but I can honestly say that questing is equally as boring and even more unengaging in the long run.

It's to the point where, I start checking out an MMO thats in development and as soon as I get the impression that it's "quest based" I immediately lose interest.  Why the hell would I play an MMO (and pay a subscription fee) just to run through a non-stop stream of half assed, cheasy, scripted quests?  I can do that in a single player game...with better graphics...better game play...more immersion...

Originally posted by Bladin

Change the world?  Stop smoking, there won't ever be a PvE based mmo that allows you to change the world, because it's impossible to design it.

 

It's not impossible to design. Why would you think so?

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Bladin

Change the world?  Stop smoking, there won't ever be a PvE based mmo that allows you to change the world, because it's impossible to design it.

 

 

It's not impossible to design. Why would you think so?

You are correct, it's not impossible to design. However creating a game where some power gamers will basically dictate what happens to the world (if you are talking about "complete" change) will probably not do.

Game companies have to make some sort of balance.

And Bladin is kind of right. People are really talking about old fashioned grinding. Even though I find it very relaxing, it really isn't a great type of gameplay. And you aren't making your own stories except that you can tell about the time you were pulling too many mobs and a group spawned on top of you....

Or unless you are a role player. But you can role play in any game.

Quests put grinding into a context that is pretty much it. Not all quests but many. But you don't have to do the quests, you can just grind mobs and do it the old fashioned way. No one is making you do all the quests. You might have to do some but I don't think that would kill you.

Heck, even Lineage 2 has quests.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Bladin

Change the world?  Stop smoking, there won't ever be a PvE based mmo that allows you to change the world, because it's impossible to design it.

 

 

It's not impossible to design. Why would you think so?

 

You are correct, it's not impossible to design. However creating a game where some power gamers will basically dictate what happens to the world (if you are talking about "complete" change) will probably not do.

Game companies have to make some sort of balance.

I don't see a danger from "power gamers". How would they upset the balance of the game?

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Bladin

Change the world?  Stop smoking, there won't ever be a PvE based mmo that allows you to change the world, because it's impossible to design it.

 

 

It's not impossible to design. Why would you think so?

 

You are correct, it's not impossible to design. However creating a game where some power gamers will basically dictate what happens to the world (if you are talking about "complete" change) will probably not do.

Game companies have to make some sort of balance.

 

I don't see a danger from "power gamers". How would they upset the balance of the game?

I'm talking about the idea of larger permanent change. If you just want to have territory control then that's something that everyone can eventually take a part of.

But if you are talking about a larger permanent change then those who play more will essentially get there first and start making the permanent sweeping changes to the world while everyone else watches.

I think after writing that I've come to the conclusion that most people just throw out the term "change the world" without realizing what that could actually mean.

It's even similar in Lineage 2. Those that are of the larger and more powerful aliances typically own all of the castles (or have their alt clans take them).

Now, this is not to say that smaller clans couldn't band together and do this but it would have to be a very large group. It can be done. And that's the exciting thing about lineage 2.

But in the end, after all that is done, things die down and the larger clans then move in and take all the castles. Or those with very large alliance friends.

Sure this can be exciting gameplay but it's one of the reasons why games such as Lineage 2 have smaller followings in the west. It takes a lot of effort to remain competitive.

In a quest based game, anyone can go throught he storylines at their own pace. Let's take The lord of the rings.

There are already lvl 60's running around. But that really means nothing because those people who play less will not suffer for that and they will eventually be able to experience all the content that the lvl 60's experience. At their own pace.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Grinding with a good group can be a lot of fun. DaoC had grinding and quests, but the quests didn't give you THAT much xp over grinding. I preferred to grind whenever possible, because the grouping was fun.

But now games are moving away from grinding, to giving much more XP for completing Quests, which some people call "quest grinding". Why? I think it's because MMORPGs are becoming more like single player rpgs, only you can chat with people while you play, and occaisionally group.

 

Totally true. I think they should rename the genre, because they aren't worthy of being in the same genre as games like DAoC or EverQuest. Those were MMOs, these WoW generation of titles are more akin to singleplayer games. 

This should always have been what the MMO was like: Give you the option to solo, but make grouping have benefits. Don't make the primary way of leveling as Quests, because...well they aren't even quests anymore. They should change that name too. Compared to DAoC, where I would hear the rumor of a crazy man by talking to random NPCs (WITHOUT STUFF OVER THEIR HEADS) and track down said crazy man. Talk to him, about how his life is now cursed and broken, all because of some artifact he stole. Talk to more people to learn about the artifact, go to the place he found it, confront the monsters/spirits there, engage in diagloe with the monsters before fighting, or instead of fighting sometimes, come back and free the crazy man from his curse, and get a cool staff at the end of it all. That's a fking quest. 

Now...I enter a city, 20 NPCs with big "!" over their heads, I talk to them, they all more or less say

" go kill 10 boars and bring back their hooves! I'll mark it on your magical GPS map and and put a glowing sign over where these boars are. Also, I'll give you a giant stack of XP when you get back!" Thats not a quest.... THIS is why vets hate WoW and what it did to the industry. 

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Grinding with a good group can be a lot of fun. DaoC had grinding and quests, but the quests didn't give you THAT much xp over grinding. I preferred to grind whenever possible, because the grouping was fun.

But now games are moving away from grinding, to giving much more XP for completing Quests, which some people call "quest grinding". Why? I think it's because MMORPGs are becoming more like single player rpgs, only you can chat with people while you play, and occaisionally group.

 

Totally true. I think they should rename the genre, because they aren't worthy of being in the same genre as games like DAoC or EverQuest. Those were MMOs, these WoW generation of titles are more akin to singleplayer games. 

 

This should always have been what the MMO was like: Give you the option to solo, but make grouping have benefits. Don't make the primary way of leveling as Quests, because...well they aren't even quests anymore. They should change that name too. Compared to DAoC, where I would hear the rumor of a crazy man by talking to random NPCs (WITHOUT STUFF OVER THEIR HEADS) and track down said crazy man. Talk to him, about how his life is now cursed and broken, all because of some artifact he stole. Talk to more people to learn about the artifact, go to the place he found it, confront the monsters/spirits there, engage in diagloe with the monsters before fighting, or instead of fighting sometimes, come back and free the crazy man from his curse, and get a cool staff at the end of it all. That's a fking quest. 

Now...I enter a city, 20 NPCs with big "!" over their heads, I talk to them, they all more or less say

" go kill 10 boars and bring back their hooves! I'll mark it on your magical GPS map and and put a glowing sign over where these boars are. Also, I'll give you a giant stack of XP when you get back!" Thats not a quest.... THIS is why vets hate WoW and what it did to the industry. 

Ok, but then you are arguing about somethiing different aren't you?

it's not that you don't want quests but that you want "real" quests.  And you want to be able to solve the entirety of it without a big magical dot on the map.

I think that's completely acceptable. But that has nothign to do with whether or not a game should be quest based or not.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Grinding with a good group can be a lot of fun. DaoC had grinding and quests, but the quests didn't give you THAT much xp over grinding. I preferred to grind whenever possible, because the grouping was fun.

But now games are moving away from grinding, to giving much more XP for completing Quests, which some people call "quest grinding". Why? I think it's because MMORPGs are becoming more like single player rpgs, only you can chat with people while you play, and occaisionally group.

 

Totally true. I think they should rename the genre, because they aren't worthy of being in the same genre as games like DAoC or EverQuest. Those were MMOs, these WoW generation of titles are more akin to singleplayer games. 

 

This should always have been what the MMO was like: Give you the option to solo, but make grouping have benefits. Don't make the primary way of leveling as Quests, because...well they aren't even quests anymore. They should change that name too. Compared to DAoC, where I would hear the rumor of a crazy man by talking to random NPCs (WITHOUT STUFF OVER THEIR HEADS) and track down said crazy man. Talk to him, about how his life is now cursed and broken, all because of some artifact he stole. Talk to more people to learn about the artifact, go to the place he found it, confront the monsters/spirits there, engage in diagloe with the monsters before fighting, or instead of fighting sometimes, come back and free the crazy man from his curse, and get a cool staff at the end of it all. That's a fking quest. 

Now...I enter a city, 20 NPCs with big "!" over their heads, I talk to them, they all more or less say

" go kill 10 boars and bring back their hooves! I'll mark it on your magical GPS map and and put a glowing sign over where these boars are. Also, I'll give you a giant stack of XP when you get back!" Thats not a quest.... THIS is why vets hate WoW and what it did to the industry. 

 

Ok, but then you are arguing about somethiing different aren't you?

it's not that you don't want quests but that you want "real" quests.  And you want to be able to solve the entirety of it without a big magical dot on the map.

I think that's completely acceptable. But that has nothign to do with whether or not a game should be quest based or not.

The point is, if a game is "quest based" then all the quests become cheap "kill tasks" of hunting boars, because there is no way to have a game that uses Quests to level up AND have those quests be GOOD. The more quests, the worse the quality, and the more they become a waste of time, and a grind. 

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Grinding with a good group can be a lot of fun. DaoC had grinding and quests, but the quests didn't give you THAT much xp over grinding. I preferred to grind whenever possible, because the grouping was fun.

But now games are moving away from grinding, to giving much more XP for completing Quests, which some people call "quest grinding". Why? I think it's because MMORPGs are becoming more like single player rpgs, only you can chat with people while you play, and occaisionally group.

 

Totally true. I think they should rename the genre, because they aren't worthy of being in the same genre as games like DAoC or EverQuest. Those were MMOs, these WoW generation of titles are more akin to singleplayer games. 

 

This should always have been what the MMO was like: Give you the option to solo, but make grouping have benefits. Don't make the primary way of leveling as Quests, because...well they aren't even quests anymore. They should change that name too. Compared to DAoC, where I would hear the rumor of a crazy man by talking to random NPCs (WITHOUT STUFF OVER THEIR HEADS) and track down said crazy man. Talk to him, about how his life is now cursed and broken, all because of some artifact he stole. Talk to more people to learn about the artifact, go to the place he found it, confront the monsters/spirits there, engage in diagloe with the monsters before fighting, or instead of fighting sometimes, come back and free the crazy man from his curse, and get a cool staff at the end of it all. That's a fking quest. 

Now...I enter a city, 20 NPCs with big "!" over their heads, I talk to them, they all more or less say

" go kill 10 boars and bring back their hooves! I'll mark it on your magical GPS map and and put a glowing sign over where these boars are. Also, I'll give you a giant stack of XP when you get back!" Thats not a quest.... THIS is why vets hate WoW and what it did to the industry. 

 

Ok, but then you are arguing about somethiing different aren't you?

it's not that you don't want quests but that you want "real" quests.  And you want to be able to solve the entirety of it without a big magical dot on the map.

I think that's completely acceptable. But that has nothign to do with whether or not a game should be quest based or not.

The point is, if a game is "quest based" then all the quests become cheap "kill tasks" of hunting boars, because there is no way to have a game that uses Quests to level up AND have those quests be GOOD. The more quests, the worse the quality, and the more they become a waste of time, and a grind. 

 

I don't think that's true at all. That's like saying in order for a story to be good it can only be 100 pages because the addition of any more pages will lessen the quality.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Bladin

Change the world?  Stop smoking, there won't ever be a PvE based mmo that allows you to change the world, because it's impossible to design it.

 

 

It's not impossible to design. Why would you think so?

 

You are correct, it's not impossible to design. However creating a game where some power gamers will basically dictate what happens to the world (if you are talking about "complete" change) will probably not do.

Game companies have to make some sort of balance.

 

I don't see a danger from "power gamers". How would they upset the balance of the game?

 

I'm talking about the idea of larger permanent change. If you just want to have territory control then that's something that everyone can eventually take a part of.

But if you are talking about a larger permanent change then those who play more will essentially get there first and start making the permanent sweeping changes to the world while everyone else watches.

I think after writing that I've come to the conclusion that most people just throw out the term "change the world" without realizing what that could actually mean.

It's even similar in Lineage 2. Those that are of the larger and more powerful aliances typically own all of the castles (or have their alt clans take them).

Now, this is not to say that smaller clans couldn't band together and do this but it would have to be a very large group. It can be done. And that's the exciting thing about lineage 2.

But in the end, after all that is done, things die down and the larger clans then move in and take all the castles. Or those with very large alliance friends.

Sure this can be exciting gameplay but it's one of the reasons why games such as Lineage 2 have smaller followings in the west. It takes a lot of effort to remain competitive.

In a quest based game, anyone can go throught he storylines at their own pace. Let's take The lord of the rings.

There are already lvl 60's running around. But that really means nothing because those people who play less will not suffer for that and they will eventually be able to experience all the content that the lvl 60's experience. At their own pace.

I see what you're saying. But I don't mean permanent changes. Anything you change, some other player or group of players can change back.

I understand your concern. Large well organized guilds will tackle this content, and you won't be a part of it.

However, you could design some quests so that anyone can participate, no guild necessary.

For example, let's say you can build a bridge across a canyon, which gives access to a new area, or different resources, or a convenient short cut.

The "quest" is kill 1,000 orcs in the area, escort 500 loaded mules to the area, which will establish the building camp, then chop wood (in the forest full of aggro giant bears)  and give 1,000 pieces of wood to the building camp.

When all this is done, the bridge appears. If you want to contribute you just start killing orcs, escorting loaded mules, or chopping wood. No guild required. If you dont' want to help build the bridge, you go do  something else.

But the bridge isn't "permanent". It can decay over time, or be destroyed, so other players can do this quest again. Still, it does change the world.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

I'm talking about the idea of larger permanent change. If you just want to have territory control then that's something that everyone can eventually take a part of.

But if you are talking about a larger permanent change then those who play more will essentially get there first and start making the permanent sweeping changes to the world while everyone else watches.

I think after writing that I've come to the conclusion that most people just throw out the term "change the world" without realizing what that could actually mean.

It's even similar in Lineage 2. Those that are of the larger and more powerful aliances typically own all of the castles (or have their alt clans take them).

Now, this is not to say that smaller clans couldn't band together and do this but it would have to be a very large group. It can be done. And that's the exciting thing about lineage 2.

But in the end, after all that is done, things die down and the larger clans then move in and take all the castles. Or those with very large alliance friends.

Sure this can be exciting gameplay but it's one of the reasons why games such as Lineage 2 have smaller followings in the west. It takes a lot of effort to remain competitive.

In a quest based game, anyone can go throught he storylines at their own pace. Let's take The lord of the rings.

There are already lvl 60's running around. But that really means nothing because those people who play less will not suffer for that and they will eventually be able to experience all the content that the lvl 60's experience. At their own pace.

 

I see what you're saying. But I don't mean permanent changes. Anything you change, some other player or group of players can change back.

I understand your concern. Large well organized guilds will tackle this content, and you won't be a part of it.

However, you could design some quests so that anyone can participate, no guild necessary.

For example, let's say you can build a bridge across a canyon, which gives access to a new area, or different resources, or a convenient short cut.

The "quest" is kill 1,000 orcs in the area, escort 500 loaded mules to the area, which will establish the building camp, then chop wood (in the forest full of aggro giant bears)  and give 1,000 pieces of wood to the building camp.

When all this is done, the bridge appears. If you want to contribute you just start killing orcs, escorting loaded mules, or chopping wood. No guild required. If you dont' want to help build the bridge, you go do  something else.

But the bridge isn't "permanent". It can decay over time, or be destroyed, so other players can do this quest again. Still, it does change the world.

that seems to work.

You have to realize, I personally have nothign against grinding. I would still be playing Lineage 2 if it wasn't for the fact that the game has now funnelled you into groups for Hellbound and that they made it easier.

I have very much been enjoying Lord of the Rings which of course is quest based.

I like the idea of a strong overarching quest line and then the smaller quests. Some of them are grind based of course which works for me very well.

I think what you are describing, which is decent can also work as an event. I'm tired of "silly" events.

With Warhammer's incarnation of the public quest, I think they could make a server wide or faction against faction epic public quest. It could even work in ways like you describe above.

It can also be story based so there is some real meaning and as you mention incorporate some sort of change.

The real problem (IMO, of course) is when they make questing the primary focus of the game.  If questing is just another option for content in the game thats fine, I'll just avoid it and do what ever I want.  But, when they build the game around questing you can't really avoid it.  LOTRO was a good example of this, since killing mobs gave you very little xp, compared to just running task quests.

Originally posted by Tatum

The real problem (IMO, of course) is when they make questing the primary focus of the game.  If questing is just another option for content in the game thats fine, I'll just avoid it and do what ever I want.  But, when they build the game around questing you can't really avoid it.  LOTRO was a good example of this, since killing mobs gave you very little xp, compared to just running task quests.

 

If you look a little hard you'll find that's not entirely true.

If you look at how xp a mob gives you, let's say in some instances 175 xp, then you you kill 10 of them you will get 1,750 xp.

It doesn't take that long and they are everywhere. many quests will have you running here and there and you will get several thousand. So you could feasibly just grind mobs and do as much or more xp. I know because I've been doing the traits and made a good amount of my level just grinding mobs for one trait.

Now, where i think LOTRO fails is that they don't make every place, whether instance or not, accessible.

so you can feasibly go to an area or instance and get the "you are not on the correct quest" sign.

That to me is BS. Just let me in.