Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Now for my question, what is the reason you stand up for this game, is it to try to prove the "trolls" wrong or is it because you really believe in this game (please be honest). I bash this game/dev team because I don't like the way aventurine handles their pr and updates. The way they're acting now might be a look into how they will act when the game is out and needs fixing (bugs,content,etc). Also what is the liquid irony thing.

 

I, for one, want this game to suceed. The most disappointing thing for me, would be if the game came out, and was both playable and fun, but could not garner the neccessary player base due to people being convinced that it could not possibly be what it claimed to be by the trolls. However much you say that you have evolved beyond a troll, bashing a game in its own forums is a form of trolling. There are concerns, and they do need to be addressed. However, I will never agree with someone who is bashing a game that has not proven itself to be junk.

I'm sure that there are actuall Fanbois who will yell so loud that my voice won't be heard, but there is the logic behind the skepitcal supporter.

 

This.

When legit posters come here and ask serious questions about the game...and trolls respond by telling them the game is a hoax, or is a piece of shit, etc...that isn fair to the person looking for legit advice.

Just because those same trolls makes a slightly less trollish posts in another topic, doesnt change who they are.

Im here because I like to discuss the game with fans and healthy skeptics. 

I have said time and time again that i have concerns about the game.  Their ability to launch smoothly and in a stable manner.  And their ability to communicate with the community after launch.  But we wont know any of that till it releases.  You dont know that they wont hire people to handle these things (they said theyve been hiring a lot of new people now that launch is getting close). 

People also spread blatant lies on this forum and to the people who dont follow the game as seriously as some of us, they deserve to be able to get correct information.  So when someone comes here and says they have promised beta every year for the last 10 years....and is obviously just trying to troll...its not fair to others.

Hope that explains it. 

If you are truly trying to be more civil....thats great, seriously.  But one thread wont do it.  If you continue to post constructively then thats different.  But your post history right now says otherwise.

 

Egg i see you hatred is deep, I tryed to be civil but your skeptism is strong.  DF is like a religion and if you don't agree with it then your a troll. You say trolls lie to the newcomers well the fanbois do the same exact thing. The fanbois will never be able to win this fight because in the end, this game will never be better then wow.....End Thread/

Well done.

This thread was one big subtle troll.  I admit you got me.

The fans will never win because the game wont be better than WoW?  Thats rich lol.

The fans will "win"  if the game delivers exactly what it promises.  Even though we arent really in some kind of fight we need to win. 

This is a niche game.

No one expects it to have wow numbers.  Numbers does not equal quality when discussed in the context of total possible customers.  WoW appeals to a much larger player base.

In order for DF to be a success, it needs to have EVE like numbers...which i think is in the 250k range.

I cant believe i actually fell for you trying to change and be objective.  End with something like /endthread because it will never beat WoW and the fans lose.

We arent trying to win anything....we just want a sandbox game that has substance beyond the zombie themeparks currently on the market.

You are a LOTRO fanboy, thats fine.  Its like me saying LOTRO will always be an epic fail because it will never beat wow gg!  see how silly that sounds.

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by Blodpls

I don't really see why they should have to provide any information, stick to deadlines or have any regard for people following the game whatsoever.  It's not even released yet so nobody has paid them any money.

Why should they care about random people on the internet who are not actual customers?  I don't understand this attitude at all.

When it's released if you like the look of it then buy it, until then you should not expect anything.

Would you be willing to pay for screenshots, videos and information?

MMORPG generates it's income from advertising, if there's no Darkfall forum then that means less page hits and less revenue, why would they want that?

 

Heres why : ITS GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
 

You give your customers what they want, so that they buy your product.

Who the *#$@ ever heard of a company that says "We dont appeal to the customer, they have to appeal to us."

Its terrible business practice to keep the people that will be putting food on your table at arms length and treat them like the compnay is giving them the priveledge of having their product on the market.

The customers make or break a business, and the way Aventurine is handling matters, it looks more like break than make.

 

 

You mean like Blizzard does? Hasn't seemed to hurt their business any.

 

Then of course there is the fact that none of us are customers of Aventurine yet.

Potential customers sure.  But they dont owe us anything just because past companies like AoC hyped things up, and then failed to deliver.

As long as the communication is there on release, thats fine.  Once we put money in, thats when it will be relevant. 

Game will speak for itself.

So what you are saying is that when a given company produces a product, they could care less what the potential customers think? Wrong. Come up with a different argument please.

Originally posted by Krayzjoel

I also question weather this game exists or not.  Im  starting to wonder if someone (adventrine/ couple guys with mmo type of computer  skills) got alot of investment money and is just living off of it  and putting out little snipits and things to throw off investors asking questions. That would be a very brazen scam and I doubt its happening, but you just never know.....

If you take the tim to actually go to the official boards or click the links to videos on this forum...youll see that there is a 0% chance this game is a scam and it 100% does exist.

They also have a EU publisher.  Which means a company seperate from Aventurine has seen the game and has signed contracts and announced publically that they will be publishing it.  Thus putting their established reputation on the line....i dont think they would do that if it was a big scam.

Tasos says:   Our goal during this testing phase is that the important things work perfectly as we move all the way down to the polish during the subsequent testing phases. The game had always been in a state to be run in its entirety, but this would have been a huge waste of resources and would have hindered this early testing. This is where Darkfall differs from other MMOs. We could have easilly had it running full featured if this was a railroad game, but it’s not. Darkfall is a sandbox game and there are infinite paths that players can follow. This is not some quest driven game where you could go through the motions quest after quest until you’re ready to actually play a few months down the road. You actually play Darkfall from day one. So as you understand, there’s no single path of testing. Player behavior in Darkfall varies wildly and we need to try and predict all eventualities.

Do people really buy into this stuff?

For real?

Everytime I read something from Darkfall all the alarm bells go tingling.

What surprises me the most is that they get away with this..

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Now for my question, what is the reason you stand up for this game, is it to try to prove the "trolls" wrong or is it because you really believe in this game (please be honest). I bash this game/dev team because I don't like the way aventurine handles their pr and updates. The way they're acting now might be a look into how they will act when the game is out and needs fixing (bugs,content,etc). Also what is the liquid irony thing.

 

I, for one, want this game to suceed. The most disappointing thing for me, would be if the game came out, and was both playable and fun, but could not garner the neccessary player base due to people being convinced that it could not possibly be what it claimed to be by the trolls. However much you say that you have evolved beyond a troll, bashing a game in its own forums is a form of trolling. There are concerns, and they do need to be addressed. However, I will never agree with someone who is bashing a game that has not proven itself to be junk.

I'm sure that there are actuall Fanbois who will yell so loud that my voice won't be heard, but there is the logic behind the skepitcal supporter.

 

This.

When legit posters come here and ask serious questions about the game...and trolls respond by telling them the game is a hoax, or is a piece of shit, etc...that isn fair to the person looking for legit advice.

Just because those same trolls makes a slightly less trollish posts in another topic, doesnt change who they are.

Im here because I like to discuss the game with fans and healthy skeptics. 

I have said time and time again that i have concerns about the game.  Their ability to launch smoothly and in a stable manner.  And their ability to communicate with the community after launch.  But we wont know any of that till it releases.  You dont know that they wont hire people to handle these things (they said theyve been hiring a lot of new people now that launch is getting close). 

People also spread blatant lies on this forum and to the people who dont follow the game as seriously as some of us, they deserve to be able to get correct information.  So when someone comes here and says they have promised beta every year for the last 10 years....and is obviously just trying to troll...its not fair to others.

Hope that explains it. 

If you are truly trying to be more civil....thats great, seriously.  But one thread wont do it.  If you continue to post constructively then thats different.  But your post history right now says otherwise.

 

Egg i see you hatred is deep, I tryed to be civil but your skeptism is strong.  DF is like a religion and if you don't agree with it then your a troll. You say trolls lie to the newcomers well the fanbois do the same exact thing. The fanbois will never be able to win this fight because in the end, this game will never be better then wow.....End Thread/

If a fanboi goes beyond what the devs have told us, I will correct it. If someone is asking about what features are supposed to be in the game, I will tell them what the devs told us. If you see restating what the devs have told us a lying, then that is your opinion. However, "correcting" that statement by saying that DF won't come out, or that we know nothing about it is not constructive, it is trolling. I, personally have never been called a troll except by those whining about not having enough updates, and yet, I have disagreed with plenty of things that some of the Fanbois have said. The whole idea of DF being a religion is a creation of the trolls to try to justify their trolling. Also, their are very few people who will call someone a troll without good reason. Generalizing that attitude across the entire population of DF supporters is yet another attempt to justify trolling. Finally, the game will be better than WoW to me if it even releases with half of its features, mostly because my personal preference in gaming is not the same as though who enjoy WoW. In other words, which game is better will be a simple matter of personal prference, and can't be generalized.

I stand by what I said, you are attempting to justify the act of trolling.

OMFG guys calm down lol.

As people know Aventurine is a small company and doesnt have a huge budget for their game. Now, a good public relations team would be very nice but obviously they have decided to put their money into developing the game itself and i dont think thats such a bad thing anyway. If the game is good on release then they hope to obviously make a name for themselves and then they will be able to fund the company more, whether it be updates or pr etc.

I really dont know how you can say that they are lowering the standards, it seems to me that your just used to commercialism and advertising way to much. How many companies are there out there that sell their game product without much advertising? Theres quite a few out there actualy and you cant compare to big name companies with huge departments for advertising.

While it is obviously good to have the pr, it is not a complete necessity, Aventurine obviously want to pour as much money into making the game itself as good as they can, perhaps they are tired of having an unreleased product, but are strict into making sure they release with high potential, so they have put all the money they can into developing so its released.

Another reason I dont think its lowering the standards is, look at Square Enix I am desperatly awaitng any new info on their next gen MMO. All we know about that is it was anounced several years ago and the same team that made FFXI is working on it. Im starting to think "vaporware" on it lol. But SE has great track record with me as I enjoyed FFXI so much I played it for 5 years, so im patiently waiting. Now it is kind of hard to compare a large company like SE with adventurine. However I will try. We know SE knows what they are doing (If they are doing anything) So they can be more secritive. Hell we dont even know the name of the MMO yet.  With adventuine we have all this information from them, with no past track record or any real proof except video kool-aid. I think they would/should have more to prove than SE would. IMO I have said this before and Ill say it again, it seems they are hiding something. Time will tell, a few more weeks and I suspect we will have some sort of news. I honestly dont foresee it being good news for DF either. I maybe wrong, I have been wrong before. but I just dont see any good news for DF.

Originally posted by Arcken 

Heres why : ITS GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
 

You give your customers what they want, so that they buy your product.

Who the *#$@ ever heard of a company that says "We dont appeal to the customer, they have to appeal to us."

Its terrible business practice to keep the people that will be putting food on your table at arms length and treat them like the compnay is giving them the priveledge of having their product on the market.

The customers make or break a business, and the way Aventurine is handling matters, it looks more like break than make.

 

Answer me this, are you a customer of Aventurine? No? Ok I didn't think so as they don't have any products.

Is providing pre-release info going to have much of an effect on how many people buy the game?  Yes it might do but  as you don't have a vested interested in the company it's not really your place to complain about their business strategy.

However you try to justify it you don't have any entitlement to receive pre-release information. 

Best thing for you to do in my opinion is just to decide now that you will never buy this game due to lack of information at this point in time.  That way you won't have to worry about it anymore.

Personally I am just going to wait until when/if it releases and if it looks good I will buy it.  I think you would find that either approach would solve all of your issues with this game.

Originally posted by Cyborg99

I started this thread because I'm used to the awsome dev team (Turbine) who created LOTR online. They are the standard for mmo dev teams, their really care about their community and they're always releasing updates. aventurine should take a lesson from Turbine.

Edit: spelling (ty imbant)

Whoa whoa whoa whoah. Wait a second, whoah. I'm going to resist flaming the hell out of you, because I really want an answer here. 

HOW LONG did you follow Lord of the Rings Online? It was possibly one of the WORST development histories. I followed it from 2002 to release. And what did I get? SHAFTED. Here's the history. 

Turbine talks about releasing an MMO, called Middle Earth Online (same game) where the point is to live in Middle Earth. It is a sandbox, stays strictly to the lore, stretches from Eriador to Moria. Do whatever you want, make your own story. 

Then, about 2004, I went to Turbine Nation, where a demo of MEO would be on display. There was no demo, I talked to the devs, they seemed really cool and enthusiastic. 2005 they canceled Turbine Nation. All information on MEO stopped. NOTHING, no information for about 10 months. Then, come new year, Turbine announces they won a legal battle and would be developing MEO by themselves! Yay! Also, the game is called Lord of the Rings Online now, but its the same game don't worry! 

2006 I attended an even better Turbine Nation then before. Most of the awesome devs were gone, and isntead there were a bunch of rookie looking 20 year olds there, many of which didn't really care about the books from what I asked. I got to play a LotRO demo and won a place in alpha testing, along with a Sting replica. 

Playing in Alpha I realized something was wrong. The entire game that they had promised us was scrapped. The whole thing redone. No alignment system, no sandbox, it was a series of quests and instances, nothing more. The community was outraged, they called them out on this, and Turbine responded "we wanted to emphasis fighting an adventure in Middle Earth, its more exciting than just living in it" and totally went against just about all the policies they had set up over the years.

LotRO was one of the biggest fingers given to a community of dedicated fans since the Star Wars Galaxies NGE. 

That being said, your ENTIRE point is invalidated. 

Ahhh Darkfall, the game we all love to hate.  No, we can not force them to release details about their game.  I imagine if there is an actual beta happening right now it is behind 2 concrete walls, bulletproof glass, and a curtain.  You know what is killing a lot of MMOs nowadays?  Bad word of mouth!  People go into betas with the mindset "This is the game," when it should be, "Time to do my job and test this game out to fix bugs."  They then complain, turn lots of people off, and people that do make it to the game start looking for all the bugs.  When they find them, and they will because it is an MMO, they act like the game is horrible and must be clensed from this earth.

Aventurine needs to keep their baby safe and sound until it is to a level of their satisfaction.  The MMO community has lost its patience with games that come out with too many bugs and empty promises.  How many times have you heard, "_____ feature didn't make it into release, but we will try to work it in soon!"  It never makes it.  Games are releasing with too many servers, which makes every server low/med populations... let's face it, too many people is not a bad thing.  I used to love being a solo MMO player, but that is an antiquated notion.  People like playing with other people or they would be playing Oblivion instead. 

I could go on and on about the change in the MMO market, the rabid consumers, and the weak-willed developers, but the fact is that if you want to survive in this day and age in the MMO biz...   you can afford few mistakes.

it's all about hype and advertising. thats the reason why Darkfall has its forum here. I still wanna try the game though.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by Arcken 

Heres why : ITS GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
 

You give your customers what they want, so that they buy your product.

Who the *#$@ ever heard of a company that says "We dont appeal to the customer, they have to appeal to us."

Its terrible business practice to keep the people that will be putting food on your table at arms length and treat them like the compnay is giving them the priveledge of having their product on the market.

The customers make or break a business, and the way Aventurine is handling matters, it looks more like break than make.

 

  

Answer me this, are you a customer of Aventurine? No? Ok I didn't think so as they don't have any products.

Is providing pre-release info going to have much of an effect on how many people buy the game?  Yes it might do but  as you don't have a vested interested in the company it's not really your place to complain about their business strategy.

However you try to justify it you don't have any entitlement to receive pre-release information. 

Best thing for you to do in my opinion is just to decide now that you will never buy this game due to lack of information at this point in time.  That way you won't have to worry about it anymore.

Personally I am just going to wait until when/if it releases and if it looks good I will buy it.  I think you would find that either approach would solve all of your issues with this game.

 

POTENTIAL customers. Good lord man, talk to any person who runs a business, works for a business, or is even studying business in a school setting. Theyll tell you that you live and die by the relationship between the business and the customers.

Why are you even arguing that point with me? Its common knowledge, and the sooner Aventurine gets that through their inexperienced heads, the faster theyll get more respect instead of being considered a shady company that most folks have either not heard of, or dont trust because of their track record.

What is it with you fanbois, making excuses for Aventurine is one thing, but arguing the basics of good business practices is flat out inane.

How is Adventurine robbing anyone of their time? People can choose not to follow the development. And besides, it's not like you can't do something else while you wait.

Fail troll fails at failing to not fill fail thread with fail...FAIL

Originally posted by skeaser

How is Adventurine robbing anyone of their time?

Aventurine is robbing people of their common sense.

Originally posted by TenSpotting

Originally posted by skeaser

How is Adventurine robbing anyone of their time?

 

Aventurine is robbing people of their common sense.

what does that have to do with anything?

it comes down to it just a fing game. you act like there trying to change the world lol

why does it matter if we follow darkfall ?

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by TenSpotting

Originally posted by skeaser

How is Adventurine robbing anyone of their time?

 

Aventurine is robbing people of their common sense.

 

what does that have to do with anything?

it comes down to it just a fing game. you act like there trying to change the world lol

why does it matter if we follow darkfall ?

Hes got a point. Its the fans job to act like its going to change the world.
 

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by TenSpotting

Originally posted by skeaser

How is Adventurine robbing anyone of their time?

 

Aventurine is robbing people of their common sense.

 

what does that have to do with anything?

it comes down to it just a fing game. you act like there trying to change the world lol

why does it matter if we follow darkfall ?

Hes got a point. Its the fans job to act like its going to change the world.
 

 

thats the other people not me

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by TenSpotting

Originally posted by skeaser

How is Adventurine robbing anyone of their time?

 

Aventurine is robbing people of their common sense.

 

what does that have to do with anything?

it comes down to it just a fing game. you act like there trying to change the world lol

why does it matter if we follow darkfall ?

Hes got a point. Its the fans job to act like its going to change the world.
 

 

 

thats the other people not me

Originally posted by eldanloco

Ahhh Darkfall, the game we all love to hate.  No, we can not force them to release details about their game.  I imagine if there is an actual beta happening right now it is behind 2 concrete walls, bulletproof glass, and a curtain.  You know what is killing a lot of MMOs nowadays?  Bad word of mouth!  People go into betas with the mindset "This is the game," when it should be, "Time to do my job and test this game out to fix bugs."  They then complain, turn lots of people off, and people that do make it to the game start looking for all the bugs.  When they find them, and they will because it is an MMO, they act like the game is horrible and must be clensed from this earth.

Aventurine needs to keep their baby safe and sound until it is to a level of their satisfaction. 

I think that this is worth quoting, as it is an entirely valid reason for Aveturine to be proceeding in the way that they are. This seems to be as close as we are going to get to seeing inside the minds of the devs. This is that all important "why."

Originally posted by Arcken

POTENTIAL customers. Good lord man, talk to any person who runs a business, works for a business, or is even studying business in a school setting. Theyll tell you that you live and die by the relationship between the business and the customers.

Why are you even arguing that point with me? Its common knowledge, and the sooner Aventurine gets that through their inexperienced heads, the faster theyll get more respect instead of being considered a shady company that most folks have either not heard of, or dont trust because of their track record.

What is it with you fanbois, making excuses for Aventurine is one thing, but arguing the basics of good business practices is flat out inane.

 

Omg, lol.  You point out in your first line that anyone interested in this game is not a customer and then you go on to write 2 more paragraphs about their relationship to these non existant customers.

How can they have good business practice when no business has been conducted?  How can they have a track record they have never sold even 1 game?

You cannot buy anything from them. 

You can sit on this on this forum for the next 5 years complaining and you know very well that if at the end of this period they release a good game that you will buy it anyway.  It is impossible for them to wrong you via their businesses practices at present time as you cannot pay them any money.