Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't the focal point of D&D face to face human interaction and roleplay? I realize there are video games, heck most video games rip from D&D for that matter, and the like but don't "true" D&D players oppose anything beyond pen and paper?

Originally posted by TenSpotting

I'd like to see the actual dice rolling =P

I can't remember what it was but I remember a game I played a good ways back that had small dice in the bottom of the screen that rolled when you did something. Lemme see if I can google that bad boy.

Originally posted by skeaser

Originally posted by TenSpotting

I'd like to see the actual dice rolling =P

 

I can't remember what it was but I remember a game I played a good ways back that had small dice in the bottom of the screen that rolled when you did something. Lemme see if I can google that bad boy.

DDO has a dice window. Most people don't realize its there in the five minutes they try it out.

The problem with DDO it is too like D&D.  You can't get much closer in a MMO.

Originally posted by Saurus930

Originally posted by DaX.9

1. Stormreach is set in world of Ebberon, that is new setting for pen and paper. How you say, forgotten realms or to be more precise land of Faerun is no longer in development in offices of wizards of the coast so everything is set in Ebberon, books, novels and yes games.

2. You can check official nwn site for info on public games.

 

1. That sounded strange, so I checked the wizards.com site and it seems like they still are doing forgotten realms stuff. As the new edition of D&D arrived this year the Faerun world setting took a leap 100 years into the future and a lot of (strange and stupid?) stuff happened to the world to justify the new rules.

 "D&D Online is as far away from a true D&D version game than you can get.."

I think that D&D online was/is very close to the 3.0 ruleset, not exactly the same,  but close. I've never played Eberron campaigns but when I looked through the book it certainly feels like the same game that turbine made.

I personally don't care for the Eberron world so if they decide to throw the Forgotten Realms world on the junkheap then I will boycott Wizards of the Coast's products until they go bankrupt.

And the Greyhawk world was good why isn't that being catered for anymore?

Originally posted by DaX.9

... stormreach is closest pen and paper MMORPG on the market. And if lack of PVP is why all the people do not like it, then they misunderstood core meaning of D&D. If instncing is bothering you, then you misunderstood core meaning of D&D, if must group is bothering you, then you have misunderstood core meaning of D&D.

You sir, misunderstand the core meaning of mmorpg if you cant understand how a well open,  consequence-based, risk/rewward contributory-based, non-switched and non-instanced based PvP system is the backbone of of a mmorpg. . .take the suspensful and surprising aspect of unplanned PvP out of a multiplayer game and it is no longer a mmorpg imho. . .yet it could still be a great single-player game with the illusion of playing against multiple players rather than predictable computer controlled mobs imho.

DDO is a horrid joke compared to D&D.

The do quests over and over at different difficultly levels.

The safe little temple rooms .

The deficiency of outdoor adventure.

The stupid character design.

The lack of real consequence on death

etc...

ALL turn the game into a simple little generic crawler.They took the worst parts of D&D,exaggerated them and combined with the worst ways of MMO s ,used them to create a simplistic kiddie game.

Theres no feel of a world, theres no feel of consequence, theres no feel of connection to the character,its all stats,powers, and crawls.Its a wetdream for those into rollplay though.

Notice, i didnt say roleplay.

i said core of D&D not mmorpg. read before attacking!

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by DaX.9

... stormreach is closest pen and paper MMORPG on the market. And if lack of PVP is why all the people do not like it, then they misunderstood core meaning of D&D. If instncing is bothering you, then you misunderstood core meaning of D&D, if must group is bothering you, then you have misunderstood core meaning of D&D.

 

You sir, misunderstand the core meaning of mmorpg if you cant understand how a well open,  consequence-based, risk/rewward contributory-based, non-switched and non-instanced based PvP system is the backbone of of a mmorpg. . .take the suspensful and surprising aspect of unplanned PvP out of a multiplayer game and it is no longer a mmorpg imho. . .yet it could still be a great single-player game with the illusion of playing against multiple players rather than predictable computer controlled mobs imho.

Well, that's an opiinion and you are welcome to it but I feel pretty confident that there are numerous people who don't share it. That's probably why there aren't as many games on the market that cater to it.

As far as DDO goes, what really made it "better" for me was realizing that Dungeons and Dragons was about whatever campaign the Dungeon Master made and the players willing to play it.

When I was younger and played D&D I could go to one friend's house and play one type of campaign, go to another and play another campaign and then run my own campaign.

Realizing that D&D is whatever the people make of it. And as Gary Gygax said (and I would agree), if you don't like something in the rules or how something playes, change it, throw it out, make it different. It's your game.

So DDO is just Turbine's campaign. By accepting that it was a lot easier to stomach the world setting.

And I do thing that DaX.9 is slightly incorrect on that. D&D can have pvp and in some of our sessions we had it. Especially if there were evil characters i the group.

But again, If one doesn't like pvp then in no way shape or form can pvp be a core component of an mmo. It would only be a hindrance.

Saying that what you like is a "core component" doesn't necessarily make it one. For you maybe, sure, but as we can see, many don't share this belief.

Originally posted by tkobo

DDO is a horrid joke compared to D&D.

The do quests over and over at different difficultly levels.

The safe little temple rooms .

The deficiency of outdoor adventure.

The stupid character design.

The lack of real consequence on death

etc...

ALL turn the game into a simple little generic crawler.They took the worst parts of D&D,exaggerated them and combined with the worst ways of MMO s ,used them to create a simplistic kiddie game.

Theres no feel of a world, theres no feel of consequence, theres no feel of connection to the character,its all stats,powers, and crawls.Its a wetdream for those into rollplay though.

Notice, i didnt say roleplay.

 

^

Originally posted by tkobo

DDO is a horrid joke compared to D&D.

The do quests over and over at different difficultly levels.

The safe little temple rooms .

The deficiency of outdoor adventure.

The stupid character design.

The lack of real consequence on death

etc...

ALL turn the game into a simple little generic crawler.They took the worst parts of D&D,exaggerated them and combined with the worst ways of MMO s ,used them to create a simplistic kiddie game.

Theres no feel of a world, theres no feel of consequence, theres no feel of connection to the character,its all stats,powers, and crawls.Its a wetdream for those into rollplay though.

Notice, i didnt say roleplay.

 

I have to agree the character design is hit or miss.

As far as the quests, I don't mind running them a few times, but what they really need to do is to give the players the ability to make their own campaigns. Of course, all items in a player made campaign would be only usable in the particular player campaign they found them in.

However some of your other statements seem a bit incongrous to many of the D&D games that I've played. Consequence on death? I've never really seen any consequence of death in D&D.

Oh sure some dm's might have perma death but usually there was always a work around.

And outdoorr adeventures? Well possibly but most of the D&D campaigns I've been in were about the dungeons, or temples or inside adventures.

not to say you couldn't have outdoor adventures but usually the outdoors was something you quickly travelled through to get to the dungeon.

It sounds to me that you might be more engaged with the mmo part and less of the D&D part?

But then again, it depends on what your dungeon master did with the campaigns you were in. Maybe he did enforce permadeath and had more outdoor adventures. Though mapping them must have been a joy.

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

Originally posted by Alcuin

It's a wild guess, but I'd say that Wizards of the Coast doesn't want to pay royalties to the creators of the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk (which are both holdovers from when the company was owned by TSR, if I'm not mistaken- please correct me if I'm wrong).

The reason they may have continued developing FR is that it is so successful and thus, profitable.

Ebberon, if you remember, was created by an individual who won a contest.  I wonder how much of a stake he still has in the profits.

I happen to not care about the reasons, I just wish they would do it.  Imagining a FR MMO is something I do often.  They could get Bob Salvatore to write quests for it!

 

Here's hoping that someday will come...

 

Alcuin Bob Salvatore is involved in a new MMO called Copernicus ,,,and if thats not enough Todd Mcfarlane is involved in the art ...check it out .It has huge potential

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/09/22/agdc-interview-with-brett-close-ceo-of-curt-schillings-38-stu/

Sounds pretty interesting.  Will have to keep my eye on this one, could have some potential...

Nice!

Three successful guys getting together to create a game they'd love to play themselves...

And they all have enough money to do it the way they want...

I would have liked to see an open world Forgotten Realms.

I would have liked to see Ten Towns, and Icewind Dale, The Spine of the World, and all that stuff.

To be honest a setting is a setting, it was always up to the imagination of the DM. I never felt the need to place my campaigns anywhere in particular, just as easy to build in any campaign history you needed.

As for NWN I thought it was pretty awful, although I understand some player made stuff is supposed to be quite good. (I take that with a pinch of salt though, players made stuff rarely gets the same level of abuse commercial stuff does). To me it showed if you stick to the PnP rules in a computer setting (with a very limited group size), you end up with something painfully clunky. The second expansion did at least have the start of a plot, if a bit Disney in its simplicity.

As for MMO to me it is meeting people, in small groups (so you can have some real dialogue) and doing something as a team, and not the same people everytime. Running around a huge open area where other players may as well be NPCs for the level of real interaction, doesn't for me fit the concept of socialising. Attacking other people seems a bit lacking as a form of interaction as well.

---

Originally posted by DaX.9
1. Stormreach is set in world of Ebberon, that is new setting for pen and paper. How you say, forgotten realms or to be more precise land of Faerun is no longer in development in offices of wizards of the coast so everything is set in Ebberon, books, novels and yes games.

---

Wrong. Eberron was the new setting, and most new stuff was set in Eberron for a while, but Forgotten Realms was never abandoned. It now looks like Eberron is the one being shut down. All the campaign material released for the new 4th edition so far has been Forgotten Realms; Tieflings have even become a standard 4th edition race.

I go back all the way to chainmail.

I remember when coming back from death cost you a con point in addition to having to make a save, and therefore, even IF you could get brought back(made your save), it was only so many times than you were gone.

I remember most of the early modules, and most of them had outdoor segments.

DDO is D&D in name and skin only.

Sadly almost each addition of D&D and AD&D was made more nipper, more kiddie,  and less intelligent.

DDO takes this trend to the extreme.

Originally posted by tkobo

I go back all the way to chainmail.

I remember when coming back from death cost you a con point in addition to having to make a save, and therefore, even IF you could get brought back(made your save), it was only so many times than you were gone.

I remember most of the early modules, and most of them had outdoor segments.

DDO is D&D in name and skin only.

Sadly almost each addition of D&D and AD&D was made more nipper, more kiddie,  and less intelligent.

DDO takes this trend to the extreme.

I'm sorry but that's not true. Or I should at least state that I don't agree.

D&D is anything the Dungeon master wants it to be. And again, to paraphrase Mr. Gygax, if you don't like a rule change it.

So if I want to add Ogres as a race I can. If i want to have harsh death penalties I can. If I want to change all those nitty gritty rules so that they can be easier and fast so that the story telling doesn't suffer I will.

So DDO can be viewed as one Dungeon Masters view on the game. That's the beauty of the game. It's not about bean counting if you dont' want it to be.

And quite frankly when I looked at all those silly rules I just threw them out. To me D&D is about the story and my players in that story. So if  rule was too complex or took too long to roll I got rid of it.

Rolling dice upon dice so you look up tables upon tables seems to be a very actuarial way of playing a fantasy adventure game. Simplification is the key so that real characterization and real stories can be told.

I applaud what Turbine did even if I'm not so thrilled on the setting. I can easily see a group of friends having a good time.

And as I've said before, it's one viewpoint, one setting in a game that can be whatever you want. If you want it to have less magic you can. If you want it to have more magic you can. if you want to play a giant Troll and the Dungeon master can make it work the that's great.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Rolling dice upon dice so you look up tables upon tables seems to be a very actuarial way of playing a fantasy adventure game. Simplification is the key so that real characterization and real stories can be told.

I always avoided any PnP game that involved people with that horrible mix of lawyer, accountant and zealot. They had a great way of sucking any fun from the game, and totally missed the point.

I think i'm one of those rare sinners that really enjoyed D&D online and thought it captured the games essence well.