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11/29/08 8:38:14 AM#121
Originally posted by Draccan
OPINION DENIED!!!!! |
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11/29/08 9:51:00 AM#122
I really like how Bioware is progressing with the game and hears the players critics out (look at the sword size they redone them ^^)
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11/29/08 1:18:52 PM#123
This is exactly WHY we can't "wait until beta" before we start giving feedback and voicing our opinions. NOW is the time to let them know what they are doing right / wrong, so that they can take our feedback into account before too much work would have to be changed. I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food" |
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Originally posted by -aLpHa-
Who in the world cares about sword sizes?? Do you pay 15$ a month depending on sword sizes??
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Originally posted by grafh
Doh! If we are not to comment they shouldn't release info at all (especially not hype it like they do) before beta. At beta gamers are just sheep-herded through the game to find obvious bugs, test the framework etc. By then all design decisions are set in stone more or less. Your opinion on my opinion is DENIED!!!!
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singsofdeath
 Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
12/02/08 4:18:03 PM#126
Originally posted by grafh
OPINION DENIED!!!!!
No...not true. It's good to give -CONSTRUCTIVE- feedback early in the development stage. See the Lightsaber size issue. People complained quick and early, so BioWare fixed the issue.
If you do not add your input now, it won't be heard. If you wait till Beta to complain, you have no right to complain anymore.
However, notice how I capsed -constructive-. OP's first post was poorly phrased and most likely written in heated temper (at least that's what I assume judging by the second post done in this thread).
Constructive Criticism at this stage is needed and wanted. Simple bashing and flaming is not. Simple as that. |
Originally posted by FE|Tachyon
I think I could have quoted that EXACT post from a 100 of my threads on the old AOC forum pre launch! Somehow there are always someone out there.. by the droves even ... who blindly follow a game with no criticism and what is worse allowing no one else a critical eye. Bioware is letting the genre down, pre-CU SWG gamers who wanted vindication.. and so is LA.
Do we really want another WAR, AOC, Matrix Online, Anarchy Online or whatever .. with little or no re-playability / incentive to stay after 2 months? Or a Lotro with no pvp?
Bioware will follow suit, all the others in their pursuit of the wow-factor.. WAR tried and failed. AOC tried and failed... And WoW is really just catering to hardcore raiders and kids being allowed to play by parents.
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Originally posted by singsofdeath
I'll ignore all your little jibes towards me for now, since you seem to take great pleasure in the fact that my previously placed faith in a company was unjustified in the end. Dunno why you seem to love to do that. *shrug* Hints at your maturity, don#t you think?
In any case, I've laid out my reasons for what I am saying. I am also trying to keep a sort of balance betwen hopes and fears right now as you may notice if you read any of the other posts I put into topics that praise TOR to the high heavens.
If you had posted this post first, I might not actually have felt the need to refute your claims, because this is by far more thought out and mature than your OP. Anyway, as you so correctly stated, you cannot know how the game turns out. In your first post, you seemed to claim that you knew just that. If this game is not for you, all well and good, but you have no idea how the game in the end will play, except for the educated guesses that you make (in THIS post, not your first one).
Yes, it will be level-based. It will also not reinvent the wheel. It will add some of the strengths of BioWare to the genre, or at least that's what they tell us. That's what i am looking forward to. Will it be great? How the heck should I know? Will it flop? Again, how the heck should I know?
All I know is, you ranted like an angry little kid in your original post, and that was what ticked me off.
That, plus your apparent joy in pointing out previous mistakes of people who have since already said that their previous trust was misplaced. Grow up, will you?
You know... You call it little jibes. Truth is you come out pretty strong against other people. Not against their viewpoints or the game in general. So yes, I do think the past is relevant here. I just randomly went 10-20 pages back in your post history and there was tons of posts called people critical about Age of Conan for "doomsayers" etc. You were the classic fanboy on this forum about the game. You defended everything FC did from letting people pay for fileplanet beta to sieges still being in the game. I really got a kick out of reading it. So why mention it here? Well if you are going to apply this blind fanboyism here will it help improve the game or hurt the game? Ask yourself! Just for the record here is a random example of your previous "work": "Just to point something out here. Spellweaving won't be seen in Closed Beta. It's been stated by Developers that FC wants to keep it as something -New- just like Sieging and DX10 Graphics. All those things are tested internally by the QA Department of FC and all those things will be in at launch. That is the latest word and I am sticking with it, despite the constant stream of people saying it won't be.
Until FC comes out and says sorry, Sieging is not in at launch, I will believe them that it will be, since I have less and less reason not to (seeing as the other features that haters believed not to be in at launch, Spellweaving, is now apparently going to be in. Keep in mind, this is not an assumption on how it will play, merely the fact that it will be there).
If testing Spellweaving and Sieges only internally is a good decision remains to be seen. I have my reservations about that as I stated in other posts, but I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt." Next time people legitimately question why something is not tested in beta will you be wary? Will you still call them doomsayers? And: "Where has it been stated by FC that the High Level Content is not ready? I would really love to see links to those interviews. And having something not in Beta but included in release...yes, that is a reason for raised brows. But again, there's only one way to find out. Namely wait for release. Why don#t you heed your own advice?
All you do here is claiming to know what the game will be like when it is released. I can make these claims as well. I don't. I say to everyone who has doubts about this game to not pre-order and instead wait until it is released. But I don't hand out doom and gloom while doing it." And: "I have to step in again. You are assuming 50k people do not like what they are seeing. So far though, I have seen more positive than negative overall. Sure there are people who don't like the game. There are also people who wouldn't even like the game if it was the second coming due to their prior hate. But you have to remember that not just the doomsayers will tell their friends. " And: " [posted by Alan0n: You do know that endgame content means right ? Its the e n d game. ATM Funcom is promising players something that they havn't in game. Will it even work ? Who knows... Noone has tested it...
Again - u prove the point of what MMO players are turning into. "Yes we are fine as long as the character can walk at launch ! " Shut up - Realise that comments like this is affectig not just you but possibly millions of ppl that have to live with unfinished and buggy games at release. And that includes alot of titles that wont ever stand under half of what the devs "PROMISED" at start.] You, sir, need to be the one to...close your mouth.
You continue to jump on every AoC thread you can find to bash it with you presumptious thoughts which you like to present as facts.
Fact is: You have no idea what End-Game will be in the game when it is released. You have no idea how well it is tested. You have no idea how well it will be implemented. You don't even have an idea of what has been tested in Beta or not (and yes, I know that due to your seriously outdated supposed Beta-Info you keep spewing up).
I am frankly tired of reading your posts and pointing out all the little tidbits of misinformation and doomsaying you weave into them, but on the other hand, I know that you will simply post some "lololol you faboi, naive etcetc" back at me, which coincidentally seems to be your only defense against people who post their own opinions as opposed to yours, but well, this had to get off my chest.
Enjoy your little rantings here. I for one will wait until the game is released and afterwards to point fingers. And ohhhhh, guess what, if FC does fail to deliver, I won't deny that. At least though, I will be basing my complaints on FACTS and not half-cooked assumptions." And: " Originally posted by Martie Pre rendered still shots, shows nothing of the game. Funcom will never ever show proper pvp in Aoc, because it is a bloody joke. This game fails on all levels, and you can take that to the bank. Another delay imminent. That's why they had a live showing of the game at TG'08 with hundreds of people watching and everyone seemed quite happy with what they saw?
Get a grip. Your postings of doom are getting repetetive and boring. If you have something to say, at least back it up with something other than simple speculation." And: " Originally posted by Martie To get to Border kingdoms, you have to go to an instaced copy of it. Like GW copy of zones with Id numbers, so yes. IT is not seamless, and trust me when i say border kingdom's and these castle and keep sieges you all think are going to be nice are far from being released in any form.
Dooooooooooom, I say!!! Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!!
Sorry, I feel like writing that in every thread where people make claims about any game being bad, far from finished, or developed by money-crazy bastards. I'm just kinda amused by these posts by now.
As for the Border Kingdoms, as far as has been released, the Border Kingdoms will be one big Zone (as opposed to Instance), and the Battle Keeps will be scattered throughout this large Zone. So no, it is -not- instanced, but yes, it is one big seperate Zone. Hope that helps. " I could go on indefinitely... But hey things ARE taken out of a context mostly here. But but but.. Thing is - you are not by any means the worst. Not at all. Most of your posts are reasonable. But the problem is you still jump all over people again and again for being critical. Many people like in this thread just jump in with the usual "wait till beta", "doom doooom" etc.. But what have we seen but doom lately? What? WAR? AOC which you followed religiously?
I wish people learned from those mistake but I guess it is too much to hope. This genre is dead and the only reason companies still try to make these games is the wow-factor. A well polished game with really limited "massive" and "roleplay" aspects. A one in a million chance for companies at the big bucks.
Bioware's CEO openly has said WoW is the right way to do things. That says it all.
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12/02/08 7:31:57 PM#129
How are they letting the genre down? Thats your opinion of course, but Bioware dont owe the genre or pre-CU SWG players anything. As long as its an enjoyable game - who cares if its themepark or sandbox. Except of course the people who think the only good game is a sandbox so everyone else should play what they like. As for replayability - if every class has a different storyline, and they put more content in than all their other titles combined - then it sounds at this point like there will be plenty of replayability. Until we can actually play it - thats all anyone has an opinion with no in game experience to back it up. |
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12/02/08 10:16:05 PM#130
Originally posted by _Shadowmage
True, none of us on the outside have played it. I won't argue that point. Many of us, though, have played other games and thus know what types of things we like to do and what keeps us coming back for more. Making new characters over and over is not something I would call fun gameplay. Especially if the root reason is I've run out of things to do with my main. Making a new character should, in my opinion, be an option if you want to try a different angle, not a built into the system crutch. If crafting and housing and space combat were going to be integral parts of this game I, and it seems quite a few others, would've thought they would have gotten at least some mention by Bioware at this point. At this point in time, having watched all the developers talk about there games since 2000, I'm not taking anything for granted. Heck, even SWG launched without space combat. No, I want to hear them talk about these other play options with as much passion as they do about Story. Or, converesly, I want to hear then say "You know what, we either aren't going to have them in the game or only at a level comparative to recent titles." At least then I, we, would know where they stand and those of us who don't find rolling a new character to see a different story 6-7 times entertaining can move our presence to another game or hobby. "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..." |
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12/02/08 10:36:28 PM#131
One question I'm wondering is: Why are people judging aspects like Companions, Story Archs, Character Creation, ect. when little to no information has been released? People are setting themselves into a predisposition of anger towards this game based on what they think the outcome will be. Now, of course, the future may hold your arguments true. All I'm saying is, wait for them to release more info. BioWare has never cheated its audience out of a good RPG; each and every one of them has been worthwhile and memorable. Who knows, perhaps making the jump to MMORPG will prove to be a mistake, none of us can make that accusation yet. Before we all take sides in this Epic battle of "I think it will happen like this", let's see what they decide to release to us. For those who don't want to be caught in the Light/Dark side part, maybe they'll find a way to help keep you neutral. For those who like groups, there will probably be instances where instead of using Companions, you can grab a real person and the two+ can complete the quest that way. Its been roughly over one month since they released the news about the game, which means it probably won't see the light of day for a good while. However, I'm pretty damn sure they'll keep us informed when they feel confident enough to release some info. So, for now, we'll have to wait it out. Everyone here has the right to feel the way they do. Yet, what we're doing now is stirring dirt that has yet to become muck. Perhaps in a couple months from now, a discussion can be carried out effectively, perhaps. If not faith, have trust |
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12/02/08 10:48:08 PM#132
I find it interesting that over and over again people use the argument that "Open-world sandbox games don't sell well, so it's only natural that the money hungry developers create washed down bullshit".
1) How do you know sandbox games don't sell well? Examples please.
2) Why do you defend the developers for making those?
Don't avoid the first question please. |
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singsofdeath
Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
12/03/08 12:16:29 AM#133
...(deleted for shortness of post)
I'll repeat what I said. The past is the past and I don#t know why that has anything to do with what is going on here. Read your own first post and be as critical about it as you apparently are about my "work".
I did not go off against people's viewpoints or anything like that, I went off because you, in this instance, made a -rant-, not a constructive post. If that is, in your eyes, "going off" against you, I'm very sorry. Here are some things that caused my replies:
"You can agree or disagree but it is plain for all those who dare open their eyes, that this game will cater to the "ohh wow jedis with lightsabers kiddy crowd" -"
"Why should I pay 20$ a month to play something which is essentially counterstrike online."
"but greedy companies demanding 20$ a month on top of 50-100$ for a game and who even have the audacity to be surprised when players leave after a month or two due to bugs, lack of gameplay, simply don't have my respect."
"Bioware stresses their love of story only as an excuse to not make a real full mmo."
That's just some tidbits and yes yes, taken out of context, blah.
But if you read those quotes and tell me those are constructive points and simple feedback, then all your other posts lose credibility. You were ranting, period. You insinuated, you acted as though you knew what the final game would be like, and you acted as though you somehow knew better than anyone else about what BioWare's aims with this game are, all in a way that discredits the players of linear games as childish and immature.
I know what I've written in the past and there is no reason for you to point it out to me. I've -always- been ticked off when people start ranting, and I've sometimes gone over the edge myself. *shrug*
Is that a reason for tohers to do the same? Is that a reason for me to suddenly be all quiet and ignore rants like your own on this forum? No.
You should drop this issue and go back to constructively posting about the game. I have no idea what your fascination with my post-history is beside trying to prove your point that...err, I once supported a game that failed. *shrugs*
Give it a rest and focus on what's important. And if you feel like pointing out -rants- to me, then by all means, do, as I will continue pointing out the rants of you and other people like you.
Edit: Oh and for the record, you may want to read -other- posts of mine, too, and maybe even *gasp* my blog, to see that I in no way defended -all- of FC's decisions, nor am I defending BioWare all the time here. Yes, I'm overal positive towards BioWare, but to get a good picture of things, why don't you let other people read -everything- I posted instead of picking out the tidbits you enjoy most?
Fact is, as much as there are people who defend gaming companies, there are also people who bash them for -no- reason. You are one of those people. At least you were in your first post. See my last quoted text from your post for that. If that is not company bashing, then I don't know what is. |
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damian7
Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/20/06
why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid? |
12/03/08 1:04:25 AM#134
Originally posted by singsofdeath
out of curiousity... all those crystal balls predicting more crap... how many times have they been wrong? how many times have they been right?
unless your expectations are those of an 8 year old, you'll be admitting that those craptastic crystal balls have been right a whole lot over the past few years. could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please? |
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12/03/08 1:06:21 AM#135
Uh, internet drama :o
*fetches popcorn n beer* |
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singsofdeath
Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
12/03/08 1:07:25 AM#136
Originally posted by damian7
out of curiousity... all those crystal balls predicting more crap... how many times have they been wrong? how many times have they been right?
unless your expectations are those of an 8 year old, you'll be admitting that those craptastic crystal balls have been right a whole lot over the past few years.
And because of that, we are supposed to denounce every company attempting to create a game?
Alright, maybe I am too optimistic and too "trusting" of the industry, but I still believe that most Developers out there are trying to deliver -good- games (if we think their ideas are actually good is another topic).
As such, i refuse to give in to crystal-ball-gazing and still want to give the Dev's at least a chance. *shrugs* Call me a fanboi for that, is eriously don't care. |
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damian7
Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/20/06
why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid? |
12/03/08 1:11:16 AM#137
Originally posted by Kyleran OK, I'll double back for you and take the SWG out of the equation. (since that's all you saw) Games sell well. Open worlds don't. Bioware wants to sell a lot. They won't be making an open world. Oh yes, regarding greed, remember what Gordon Gecko said, "Greed is good". Companies exist to make as much money as possible, no other purpose. They will develop games that they feel will accomplish this goal. (regardless whether they manage to actually do it)
if greed is good, then why aren't vanguard, aoc, and warhammer rolling in the dough and putting wow to shame? aren't they run by a bunch of greedy bastiches? folks pushing out non-polished (i.e. half-assed) games are not greeted with open arms by the players, it would seem.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please? |
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damian7
Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/20/06
why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid? |
12/03/08 1:13:09 AM#138
Originally posted by Draccan OK, I'll double back for you and take the SWG out of the equation. (since that's all you saw) Games sell well. Open worlds don't. Bioware wants to sell a lot. They won't be making an open world. Oh yes, regarding greed, remember what Gordon Gecko said, "Greed is good". Companies exist to make as much money as possible, no other purpose. They will develop games that they feel will accomplish this goal. (regardless whether they manage to actually do it)
Open worlds don't??? I have seen this argument many times, but what a ****** thing to say, there is no proof of that. No major company has undertaken this and followed through on it. There just isn't any proof. It is like say, if only one horror film was ever made - and it didn't sell enough, then the genre is dead?!? And there has hardly been one done right - SWG included.. And concerning all the Gordon Geckos of this world - the only trend line they are watching these days are this one: \
just to jump on here... and i'll keep this to western games... wow has the most subs... where is eve online ranked? it's an open world. could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please? |
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damian7
Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/20/06
why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid? |
12/03/08 1:36:09 AM#139
for the record... who knows how good/bad this game will be.
it could be great. it could suck.
i've done some reading on it; the cartoonie graphics they're shooting for certainly does seem to be emulating wow for the mass appeal.
but, who knows. could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please? |
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12/03/08 1:42:55 AM#140
Originally posted by damian7
Open worlds don't??? I have seen this argument many times, but what a ****** thing to say, there is no proof of that. No major company has undertaken this and followed through on it. There just isn't any proof. It is like say, if only one horror film was ever made - and it didn't sell enough, then the genre is dead?!? And there has hardly been one done right - SWG included.. And concerning all the Gordon Geckos of this world - the only trend line they are watching these days are this one: \
just to jump on here... and i'll keep this to western games... wow has the most subs... where is eve online ranked? it's an open world.
Well, I imagine if the EvE IP (which I don't play; tried it for 3 months and decided I didn't like the real time skill progression) had a line of previous RTS games, very successful throught out the entire planet RTS games that had built up basically a cult following of a period of years it too may be enjoying the subscription numbers, or close to, what WoW has. Unfortunatly noone else has made an MMO out of a universe that has had years and years of hands on exposure to the masses on a global level and in turn produced a game with simple, completed, polished game systems. Doesn't matter if it's a themepark game or a sandbox, noone has met those criteria making a game. That said I see no reason why if another company did have those variables in line it wouldn't matter which type, TP or SB, it would still do well. "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..." |
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