Too bad BIOWARE blew it. They had a chance at a large IP - they had a chance at making the perfect mmo - they had a chance to set the industry straight on how to make online roleplaying games.

Instead they produce ... THIS?

Even the website is poorly constructed. The images don't look particular and the little info they did give is all wrong.

They talk about story as if it is more important than gameplay.

Sad thing is that this will probably be just another mmo that people play 1-3 months and get tired of.

What Lucasarts have decided to do is to make their little wow dream once again - re-establish the NGE/CU with a new game. New company, Bioware, so why should Lucasarts owe anything to anyone? Maybe - they ARE right. But what happens now is that all the many MANY people tired of a greedy industry creating cheap little themeparks with linear gameplay - will be even more tired.

SW:TOR offers nothing new. No innovative way to deal with the genre.

People can attack sandbox all they want, but only games with lots of variety, depth, endgame etc. is worth my time.

The Internet, our powerful PCs, the technology of today BEG for a game that is truly EPIC and LARGE with CHOICES. People talk about simulation as if it was a bad thing, I don't.

Why should I pay 20$ a month to play something which is essentially counterstrike online. I mean - sure I don't mind playing a single or multi-player online game - but greedy companies demanding 20$ a month on top of 50-100$ for a game and who even have the audacity to be surprised when players leave after a month or two due to bugs, lack of gameplay, simply don't have my respect.

I mean - take SWG - despite it DID have MANY flaws, bugs and problems - launched too early and could have included a lot of features from day one (and I am still sore about this) - it actually had depth, scope, a vision. It was far from perfect, but it showed the PATH.

SWG had what most mmos forget - a reason to stay online after a month of running through X levels. SWG had community, reasons to communicate. It gave players a break (or even a complete career) away from fighting. You could farm ressources, advanced crafting system - there were classes specializing in other stuff but fighting. I think it attracted some really cool people I never EVER meet in games like AOC, WoW, COH etc.

How I miss hanging out with crafters, discussing prices and tech with people - running around to look at vendors or seeing friends and helping them with harvest missions, placing new harvesters etc. Or how much fun it was to design a guild with player houses spreaded out over your own plot of land. Or all those moments where you were waiting for a shuttle or sitting at the doctors getting a nice chat with people.

There are 1000s of things SWG should and must have done better, but it showed us the light. What SW:TOR is showing us is simply greed.

If they want 20$ a month they should do something to deserve it.

You can agree or disagree but it is plain for all those who dare open their eyes, that this game will cater to the "ohh wow jedis with lightsabers kiddy crowd" - and not to mature players. Bioware stresses their love of story only as an excuse to not make a real full mmo. This saves them money and they hope they get that SW kiddy crowd. Fine. It is a design choice maybe - just don't charge a monthly fee if you just plan on holding a player's hand through X levels through a so-called story..

Make a good game - with awesome gameplay, classes with SKILLs rather than levels - or even classless - make depth, endgame, player housing, a real player economy, make player vendors meaningful and not just an AH - give us a REAL deep crafting system and a hunt and fight for ressources - drop those damn instances that removes the players from the game world - engage us in a large open world -- and don't even THINK on making a Star Wars game where space is a frigging expansion - give us all that, and then ......... and then ................ then...

I WILL MAKE MY OWN FRIGGIN STORY _ THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH !!

Draccan

P.S. November 26th: May I direct your attention to this post I made much further down with elaborations on what I think!?

Another person condemning a game he has no frikkin idea about. Another person ranting about how the game should be, instead of allowing a so far promising company to do their work and at least withhold judgement until there is more to go on than just a few alpha images, a very small FAQ and concept art.

Seems the Internet these days is full of people with magic crystal balls, telling them exactly how a game will play out.

And full of people who know better than anybody else on how to make a successful game.

Cheers, but you won't be missed. ^_^

Edit: Oh...did I mention another of those darn SWg Vets who thinks he has the recipe for success and has a constitutional right to badmouth anything that is not SWG v2.0? Bleh.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Another person condemning a game he has no frikkin idea about. Another person ranting about how the game should be, instead of allowing a so far promising company to do their work and at least withhold judgement until there is more to go on than just a few alpha images, a very small FAQ and concept art.

 

Seems the Internet these days is full of people with magic crystal balls, telling them exactly how a game will play out.

 

And full of people who know better than anybody else on how to make a successful game.

 

Cheers, but you won't be missed. ^_^

Aren't you the same dude who has defended Funcom and their lies over and over??

I mean - I am pretty sure I saw your name there a lot..

If you followed their own press information - it is clear what their direction is - in fact even the CEO has stated in so many words that he wants a WoW clone -- everything points to what I say is right.

It is always easier dissing other people's point of view than actually trying to engage those arguments..

You leave and you won't be missed..

OP, you seem upset that the new game won't be SWG.  It was never going to be.  Bioware has its own vision of what sort of game it plans on making (big selling, just like WOW) and followning the path of SWG was never on the table. (I recall early interviews with their CEO)

They tell stories and do it better than anyone else.  People used to play their single player games for the stories, not the inspiring combat mechanics.

Like you, I'd love to see another world simulation game, but you'll have to hope a smallet development house takes the leap and creates it.  The big boys are all going for mass market appeal.  Besides, they'll probably want to put it on a console.

I have defended Funcom in much the same way I will do BioWare, though with a purer intent this time, since BioWare has so far only delivered games that I have enjoyed.

And if I had to go back and knew what I knew today, I would still call out all youpeople who condemn programmers who work hard before they get a chance to prove things to you. NOW you can talk big, now you can be oh so mighty about a game that has failed because they screwed up, but before that, you have no frikkin leg to stand on.

The direction of this game was clear when it became common knowledge that BioWare is making this game. What you call an "excuse", the STORY, is what BioWare games have always been about. If you had looked at the evidence you would have realized that from the start and wouldn't need to frikkin whine on this forum now that the game has been announced.

You say they want to save money? It has been told they are investing roughly 100M$ into this game. WHERE is that saving money, hm? They are hiring 13, read THIRTEEN full time story writers just to come up with the stories that are supposed to take place in this game. MORE content than in all BioWare games prior combined.

I do not have to dis you. I am just pointing out your obvious inability to accept another sort of game over your own chosen one. You want SWG 2.0, it was clear from the get-go that BioWare would not be making it. And you and your crowd are the ones filling up the official forums over there DEMANDING that the game be made to YOUR liking, that is what ticks me off.

No one of your camp is prepared to give BioWare a chance. And as far as I am concerned, that is OK. You can go and continue moping about your lost paradise. And you have Earthrise, Darkfall, Mortal Online and so on to look forward to as far as Skill-based, Open World games go.

But don#t take your frustration out on a company that has been known to produce quality games and is obviously sinking some major effort into this, even if that effort is not for YOU. Nobody promised you SWG 2.0. The chance wasn't even there. And you act like you have the divine right to blame BioWare for it. You haven't. There are people out here who LIKE the sound of the game's concept.

People who LIKE the stories BioWare has told so far and are looking forward to seeing what they can come up with here, if they can actually make a story in an MMO matter unlike any company before. If they can pull off the choreographed fighting instead of the lame hack and slash moves in every other game. If the companions are actually interesting as they were in the KOTOR game. And so on and so forth.

You diss these people by dissing the company. And that's what ticks me off...big time.

Edit: Edited for spelling. And removed some hot-headed insults that came while I was rather angry. My apologies. I should control myself better. -.-

I wonder if Bioware knows that you can't pause an MMO?

Originally posted by Kyleran

OP, you seem upset that the new game won't be SWG.  It was never going to be.  Bioware has its own vision of what sort of game it plans on making (big selling, just like WOW) and followning the path of SWG was never on the table. (I recall early interviews with their CEO)

They tell stories and do it better than anyone else.  People used to play their single player games for the stories, not the inspiring combat mechanics.

Like you, I'd love to see another world simulation game, but you'll have to hope a smallet development house takes the leap and creates it.  The big boys are all going for mass market appeal.  Besides, they'll probably want to put it on a console. 

If you read what I wrote you would understand that it is not about whether or not they re-make SWG but whether or not they charge 20$ for a lazy production which is not a real open world. Why pay many $ for essentially single/multiplayer online games that are not massive? Or even roleplaying..?

By the way - console is no argument. The consoles of today are advanced enough that you could create open worlds like I describe on them ...

Bioware with SW:TOR went the lazy / greedy way..

Originally posted by Draccan

Originally posted by Kyleran

OP, you seem upset that the new game won't be SWG.  It was never going to be.  Bioware has its own vision of what sort of game it plans on making (big selling, just like WOW) and followning the path of SWG was never on the table. (I recall early interviews with their CEO)

They tell stories and do it better than anyone else.  People used to play their single player games for the stories, not the inspiring combat mechanics.

Like you, I'd love to see another world simulation game, but you'll have to hope a smallet development house takes the leap and creates it.  The big boys are all going for mass market appeal.  Besides, they'll probably want to put it on a console. 

 

If you read what I wrote you would understand that it is not about whether or not they re-make SWG but whether or not they charge 20$ for a lazy production which is not a real open world. Why pay many $ for essentially single/multiplayer online games that are not massive? Or even roleplaying..?

By the way - console is no argument. The consoles of today are advanced enough that you could create open worlds like I describe on them ...

Bioware with SW:TOR went the lazy / greedy way..

OK, I'll double back for you and take the SWG out of the equation. (since that's all you saw)

Games sell well. Open worlds don't.  Bioware wants to sell a lot. They won't be making an open world.

Oh yes, regarding greed, remember what Gordon Gecko said,  "Greed is good".  Companies exist to make as much money as possible, no other purpose.  They will develop games that they feel will accomplish this goal. (regardless whether they manage to actually do it)

OP Poster tactics:

checked website: CHECK

checked Publisher/developer: CHECK

seen game: X

played alpha: X

played beta: X

played final: X

played well after release: X

knows all the facts about the game in progress: X

has 1st hand inside info: X

rant mode on: CHECK

conclusion alpha code review: COMPLETE FAILURE

Originally posted by Draccan

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Another person condemning a game he has no frikkin idea about. Another person ranting about how the game should be, instead of allowing a so far promising company to do their work and at least withhold judgement until there is more to go on than just a few alpha images, a very small FAQ and concept art.

 

Seems the Internet these days is full of people with magic crystal balls, telling them exactly how a game will play out.

 

And full of people who know better than anybody else on how to make a successful game.

 

Cheers, but you won't be missed. ^_^

 

Aren't you the same dude who has defended Funcom and their lies over and over??

I mean - I am pretty sure I saw your name there a lot..

 

If you followed their own press information - it is clear what their direction is - in fact even the CEO has stated in so many words that he wants a WoW clone -- everything points to what I say is right.

 

It is always easier dissing other people's point of view than actually trying to engage those arguments..

You leave and you won't be missed..

 

What arguement?

You are just QQing about something we have very little information on, have a little bit of patience and save the whinning for a time when you have more knowledge of what the game will realy be like.

And as for the "WoW clone" comment, you sound an awfull lot like the whinning ADD WoW kiddies who QQ about games that they don't comprehend or aren't interested in. Get a grip on yourself, stop stomping your feet and throwing tantrums until we know more about the game, at that time you may be capable of having a mature discussion about the game and what it brings to the table. Until then, go back and play SWG in the sandbox and wait for more information to be released about TOR.

Originally posted by Soupgoblin

Originally posted by Draccan

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Another person condemning a game he has no frikkin idea about. Another person ranting about how the game should be, instead of allowing a so far promising company to do their work and at least withhold judgement until there is more to go on than just a few alpha images, a very small FAQ and concept art.

 

Seems the Internet these days is full of people with magic crystal balls, telling them exactly how a game will play out.

 

And full of people who know better than anybody else on how to make a successful game.

 

Cheers, but you won't be missed. ^_^

 

Aren't you the same dude who has defended Funcom and their lies over and over??

I mean - I am pretty sure I saw your name there a lot..

 

If you followed their own press information - it is clear what their direction is - in fact even the CEO has stated in so many words that he wants a WoW clone -- everything points to what I say is right.

 

It is always easier dissing other people's point of view than actually trying to engage those arguments..

You leave and you won't be missed..

 

 

What arguement?

You are just QQing about something we have very little information on, have a little bit of patience and save the whinning for a time when you have more knowledge of what the game will realy be like.

And as for the "WoW clone" comment, you sound an awfull lot like the whinning ADD WoW kiddies who QQ about games that they don't comprehend or aren't interested in. Get a grip on yourself, stop stomping your feet and throwing tantrums until we know more about the game, at that time you may be capable of having a mature discussion about the game and what it brings to the table. Until then, go back and play SWG in the sandbox and wait for more information to be released about TOR.

Apologists - geee ... as if I haven't seen tons of those on AoC forums a year before launch!

Where are they today?

Probably around here... :-p

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Draccan

Originally posted by Kyleran

OP, you seem upset that the new game won't be SWG.  It was never going to be.  Bioware has its own vision of what sort of game it plans on making (big selling, just like WOW) and followning the path of SWG was never on the table. (I recall early interviews with their CEO)

They tell stories and do it better than anyone else.  People used to play their single player games for the stories, not the inspiring combat mechanics.

Like you, I'd love to see another world simulation game, but you'll have to hope a smallet development house takes the leap and creates it.  The big boys are all going for mass market appeal.  Besides, they'll probably want to put it on a console. 

 

If you read what I wrote you would understand that it is not about whether or not they re-make SWG but whether or not they charge 20$ for a lazy production which is not a real open world. Why pay many $ for essentially single/multiplayer online games that are not massive? Or even roleplaying..?

By the way - console is no argument. The consoles of today are advanced enough that you could create open worlds like I describe on them ...

Bioware with SW:TOR went the lazy / greedy way..

OK, I'll double back for you and take the SWG out of the equation. (since that's all you saw)

Games sell well. Open worlds don't.  Bioware wants to sell a lot. They won't be making an open world.

Oh yes, regarding greed, remember what Gordon Gecko said,  "Greed is good".  Companies exist to make as much money as possible, no other purpose.  They will develop games that they feel will accomplish this goal. (regardless whether they manage to actually do it)

Open worlds don't??? I have seen this argument many times, but what a ****** thing to say, there is no proof of that. No major company has undertaken this and followed through on it. There just isn't any proof.

It is like say, if only one horror film was ever made - and it didn't sell enough, then the genre is dead?!?

And there has hardly been one done right - SWG included..

And concerning all the Gordon Geckos of this world - the only trend line they are watching these days are this one: \

OP is right, graphics are poor, webpage is buggy, and the game is said to be heavy story based. But unless the OP has actually played the game for a few months, you are only ASSUMING that Bioware Blew it.

Just another example of a company taking a different route to gameplay, and it is already being bashed before release.

While I am all for 'sandbox' type games, I know SWToR, will likely not be one of em. But I will still follow it n prolly try it out when it is released. As for the OP, I will make one suggestion...if you hate it already, then stop following the games development, and you don't even HAVE to buy the game!

Sick of these stupid rants on how a game failed so badly, months or years before release. And always written by someone who knows the market n how to make games better...well then go make your own, and I will tell you how.

Go use your future predicting ability to win yourself a huge lotto, then start your own busness n hire all the ppl you need. And since you already know what all the ppl around the world want in an MMO, the same as what you want, it should be easy to make your own WoW killer.

I predict that that new MMORPG being announced in 2018 will be a total failure, the non existing website is somewhat buggy, I don't like the non-existing screenshots nor non existing gameplay.

Originally posted by talismen351

OP is right, graphics are poor, webpage is buggy, and the game is said to be heavy story based. But unless the OP has actually played the game for a few months, you are only ASSUMING that Bioware Blew it.

Just another example of a company taking a different route to gameplay, and it is already being bashed before release.

While I am all for 'sandbox' type games, I know SWToR, will likely not be one of em. But I will still follow it n prolly try it out when it is released. As for the OP, I will make one suggestion...if you hate it already, then stop following the games development, and you don't even HAVE to buy the game!

Sick of these stupid rants on how a game failed so badly, months or years before release. And always written by someone who knows the market n how to make games better...well then go make your own, and I will tell you how.

Go use your future predicting ability to win yourself a huge lotto, then start your own busness n hire all the ppl you need. And since you already know what all the ppl around the world want in an MMO, the same as what you want, it should be easy to make your own WoW killer.

You know I could say the same about all the fanboys that drives companies into thinking they are on the right path all the way up to launch.. Look at AoC.

No if a game company - esp. with LA in their back - launches so much hype - press conferences, info on their game, screenshots - talk about development bla bla... SURELY I CAN SAY WHAT I THINK.

I am sorry I will not sit here and clap or shut up if I feel what they say is wrong.

Despite there is plenty of info out now.

Why charge 20ish $ a month for something that probably won't be massive? Why even sell this as an mmo?

It is not about crystal balls - it is about common sense!

Try it! :-p

Alright bro, why are you bashing the game long before we're going to see some meat on what the games about. They have said that they want to have 4 strong "pillars" customization, combat, exploration, and STORY. I'm not going to lie the stories in every MMO I've played, besides from a half decent story in AoC and LOTRO have sucked. They are talking about whats going to set them apart from other games, besides from the Star Wars IP. I agree the visuals look like crap right now, but I'm sure they will be fine, maybe not mindblowing, by launch. Lets look at it this way when Apple came up with the IPhone they used their expertise in interfacing, to revolutionize the phone market, and they didn't talk up their connection or whatever. So why wouldn't Bioware first talk about how they are going to revolutionize the game industry? Just because they want story to be an important thing, so that when you go and do a quest its not like you don't know what the hell its about(unless you read the text) , doesn't mean they can't include great depth in what you have talked about. You can make a story without taking away from you making your own characters story. The story element is just about when you do a side quest or whatever you actions have consequence besides getting 10000 xp and blaster of fire on your character or the world. Yes there is going to be epic quests for each class, but just because you have to end up taking out dark lord so and so doesn't mean that you can't  you forge your story along the way.

Agreed with the OP, wouldnt Bioware already have told us about everything that makes this MMO better then all the currelty MMO:s? The only thing they have told us that differs is the storyline. The rest is just gonna be youre ordinary grind mmo without the need to think outside the box.

Sorry, but its is written failure all over it.

Dear OP... You say they created "this"? and how do you know what is "This"? You played the game? NO.. You seen video? NO... You se real screenshots (not alpha)? NO...

Enough NO, from you... 

kthnxbye

Originally posted by Dahlifyr

Agreed with the OP, wouldnt Bioware already have told us about everything that makes this MMO better then all the currelty MMO:s? The only thing they have told us that differs is the storyline. The rest is just gonna be youre ordinary grind mmo without the need to think outside the box.

Sorry, but its is written failure all over it.

agree.

complete facts based preview/review of a alpha code game.

Well written, cheers m8.

applause.

PS. send that conclusion with those awesome facts to Bioware, so they can stop wasting time and  $$ on a product which is obviously going to fail miserably.

Originally posted by tarius11

Alright bro, why are you bashing the game long before we're going to see some meat on what the games about. They have said that they want to have 4 strong "pillars" customization, combat, exploration, and STORY. I'm not going to lie the stories in every MMO I've played, besides from a half decent story in AoC and LOTRO have sucked. They are talking about whats going to set them apart from other games, besides from the Star Wars IP. I agree the visuals look like crap right now, but I'm sure they will be fine, maybe not mindblowing, by launch. Lets look at it this way when Apple came up with the IPhone they used their expertise in interfacing, to revolutionize the phone market, and they didn't talk up their connection or whatever. So why wouldn't Bioware first talk about how they are going to revolutionize the game industry? Just because they want story to be an important thing, so that when you go and do a quest its not like you don't know what the hell its about(unless you read the text) , doesn't mean they can't include great depth in what you have talked about. You can make a story without taking away from you making your own characters story. The story element is just about when you do a side quest or whatever you actions have consequence besides getting 10000 xp and blaster of fire on your character or the world. Yes there is going to be epic quests for each class, but just because you have to end up taking out dark lord so and so doesn't mean that you can't  you forge your story along the way.

If we take the case of AoC which I followed for almost 2 years before release, I was trying to voice a lot of concerns. A LOT! I was hammered down by the fanbase all the way up to launch. And I was VERY active on those forums.

Truth is people are willing to believe anything these days.

If you want to affect development of the mmo genre you have to fight back the greed. I do so - not by bashing as you claim - but by offering a dissenting voice.

The info is out already. Maybe we don't know EVERYTHING ... but we know enough to have a thought on this game.. If Bioware don't want feedback they shouldn't release a press conference, give interviews, hype it for months and months, and then release such a poor website.

What I attack is greed and poor design choices!

C'est simple!