Originally posted by Ephimero

There's an easy way to advoid it though, what about not dying? OP and players alike are so confortable in the easy mode status that their requests ruin the fun for those who want to feel the game as something challenging.

Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".

You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?

Originally posted by Ambikan

Originally posted by Ephimero

There's an easy way to advoid it though, what about not dying? OP and players alike are so confortable in the easy mode status that their requests ruin the fun for those who want to feel the game as something challenging.

Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".

You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?

It's a matter of personal taste. Following the same logic... why not have a challenging mob that drops awesome loot WITH the thrill of having consequences? The death penalty is obviously not for everyone, but to some, it does add that level factor of excitement.

Of course, NCSoft can't create a game that can cater to EVERYONES needs. So as other posters have mentioned, either play it or drop it... the game probably isn't for you so I guess you won't be playing it.

P.S. Just like how WoW has a PvP/PvE/RP/RP-PVP servers... maybe Aion can have something similar... like Hardcore (harsh penalties) and Normal (kitty penalties).

How much of a XP loss are we talking about?  Does anyone know?  Also, are there any other penalties with it?(item decay, timed debuff.  If it is just the xp loss(similar to EQ) then that's not so bad. 

Originally posted by Ambikan

Originally posted by Ephimero

There's an easy way to advoid it though, what about not dying? OP and players alike are so confortable in the easy mode status that their requests ruin the fun for those who want to feel the game as something challenging.

Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".

You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?

There's a point where devs put a carrot on a stick, and people will focus on that and only care about that until they are done. In a game with levels, people see them as the ultimate goal (even if they aren't) and they are way more affected by it than by any other kind of death penalty.

There's a point where "harsh resurrection penalties" would become meaningless, and that's when I want to travel back to the city and stay there to buy stuff or something, the debuff would fade eventually. Specially in quest based leveling such as Aion's, most of the times you don't need to fight in order to keep up advancing.

About harder mobs encounters, they can always be zerged down in a seamless enviroment, people would use that just like they are using it now in the elite mobs areas, I've seen forces of 12 people zerging a level 20 elite mob, when I can solo them being level 24.

As hellrose described in aionsource, DP is a slap in the wrist in this game, like a "shit, I died, *tsk tsk*" and you keep going, it's not harsh enough to turn you down since you can always recover most of the xp loss, but harsh enough to leave you out of money fastly if you keep dying, I've died enough to spend over 70k already, and trust me, money doesn't come easy when you don't understand korean (buying useless skills, for example) :P

I know that for the european release I'll stop risking and going with 20% of my HP to the next mob like I did before realizing, if that's cause of the DP, then the DP is good enough.

And Achesoma, at level 24, I would have to pay around 6k kina in order to recover most of my XP loss, it takes around 4% of your XP and you can't delevel, so if you're about to try something, do it when you just leveled :P. Then there's a 1m debuff which slows you down, which also gets removed on recovery. Stacking deaths counts, and I've paid 16K for a triple death penalty at level 20, that was harsh, lucky me there are money repeatable quests ^^

In real life adrenaline rush will increase your focus, response time, and athletic ability.  However, in a MMORPG, it will not help to increase anything concrete on your character.  Maybe it will increase your skill as players a little bit.

If simply wants a good adrenaline rush, then it doesn't have to be a huge death penalty.  It can be anything that cause such reaction in your body.  If you are one of those type of people that can't get an adrenaline rush unless you live on the edge.  Maybe you are better off in extreme sports than MMORPG.

Some players might want to avoid heart pounding excitements all together in MMORPG.  If you game alot, and doesn't exercise, then you might actually end up with a heart attack.  Then, I guess the death penalty is pretty big now isn't it? LOL

well for one thing at least this way more parties/groups would be formed and healers will not be forced to solo. I just hope people don't always blame the healers for the death. There are many factors that coulld lead to the death of a party/group.

If you want an adrenaline rush, join the army, take a tour to Iraq and go play with some road-side bombs like a real man.

Originally posted by Neosai

Some players might want to avoid heart pounding excitements all together in MMORPG.  If you game alot, and doesn't exercise, then you might actually end up with a heart attack.  Then, I guess the death penalty is pretty big now isn't it? LOL

Well that has a lot more to do with your quality of life then a harsh(ish) DP, please go outside people!!! :D

Originally posted by Ephimero
There's a point where devs put a carrot on a stick, and people will focus on that and only care about that until they are done. In a game with levels, people see them as the ultimate goal (even if they aren't) and they are way more affected by it than by any other kind of death penalty.

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Originally posted by Ambikan
I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but its not the leveling part of MMORPG's that I enjoy, although that has become a big part of it. I scored 100% on the explorer section on the the Bartle MMO quiz, so to me its more about exploring areas than it is just taking the "shortest route to the carrot" to become powerful as quickly as possible.

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Originally posted by Ephimero There's a point where "harsh resurrection penalties" would become meaningless, and that's when I want to travel back to the city and stay there to buy stuff or something, the debuff would fade eventually. Specially in quest based leveling such as Aion's, most of the times you don't need to fight in order to keep up advancing.

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Originally posted by Ambikan
Even if you don't have to fight to advance, there could always be death penalties incurred. For example, if you die, instead of losing exp, your exp gain from doing anything would be reduced.

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Originally posted by Ephimero
About harder mobs encounters, they can always be zerged down in a seamless enviroment, people would use that just like they are using it now in the elite mobs areas, I've seen forces of 12 people zerging a level 20 elite mob, when I can solo them being level 24.

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Originally posted by Ambikan So if exp loss is already just a "slap in the wrist", and the money you spend to regain the lost exp is the real pain to deal with, why not just forget exp loss altogether and make a death/ressurection penalty in which who you have to spend money to regain that sickness?

Originally posted by Ephimero
If you don't enjoy death penalties and becoming affected after a death, skip this one, I'll enjoy it for the both of us.

I'm glad you will be enjoing the game for the both of us, but how about the thousands or tens of thousands of gamers who will shun this game looking for a death penalty that is so old it has been around since 98/99, and longer than that if you include MUDs?

Originally posted by Neosai

...Maybe it will increase your skill as players a little bit....

My experience, and a lot of my old comrades in AC2 and Lineage II think the same, is that a significant death penalty increases not just a "little bit" your player skills. May be not right now, but when i tried WoW (and it was may be around 3 years after launch) it was easy for me to know quickly who was coming from more "risky" games. I  bet with a friend about it and i won almost all the time.

In a game with real "death penalty sure you will play more seriously each fight. No place in a game like these for people playing crazy like i have seen in the last games i have been playing without something that deserves to be called "Death penalty".

To me some risk make the game a lot more interesting but i know it is not the same for all.

From what I have seen in videos/livestream of OBT the xp penalty seems pretty benign. You loose some % from dying in PvE, but most (if not all, atleast 80% of what you lost, it was hard to see for sure..) can be returned by a healer. All you loose is money (hopefully so much it hurts) and even if you dont buy the xp back you can make it back in 15 min max. You also get some debuff.

You wont delevel (im pretty sure but not 100%, read it a long long time ago) so once you get to max you can wipe in raids all you want.

You wont loose xp from dying in PvP. You will only loose abyss points (that is used for buying PvP gear and stuff). You gain abyss points from killing other players.

So.. Its not a very harsh penalty, but you will still feel it I hope and it is exactly how a reasonable death penalty should look according to me.

Dying in PvE should definitely be penalized, cuz its pretty unskilled to die from a monster. PvP is all about dying and an xp penalty from PvP would only deter people from fighting. Not loosing lvl is a good thing, so you can focus on whatever endgame content there is without having to constantly work to stay max. All good

Originally posted by stormious

From what I have seen in videos/livestream of OBT the xp penalty seems pretty benign. You loose some % from dying in PvE, but most (if not all, atleast 80% of what you lost, it was hard to see for sure..) can be returned by a healer. All you loose is money (hopefully so much it hurts) and even if you dont buy the xp back you can make it back in 15 min max. You also get some debuff.

You wont delevel (im pretty sure but not 100%, read it a long long time ago) so once you get to max you can wipe in raids all you want.

You wont loose xp from dying in PvP. You will only loose abyss points (that is used for buying PvP gear and stuff). You gain abyss points from killing other players.

So.. Its not a very harsh penalty, but you will still feel it I hope and it is exactly how a reasonable death penalty should look according to me.

Dying in PvE should definitely be penalized, cuz its pretty unskilled to die from a monster. PvP is all about dying and an xp penalty from PvP would only deter people from fighting. Not loosing lvl is a good thing, so you can focus on whatever endgame content there is without having to constantly work to stay max. All good

I think they have it set up like this so people will pvp alot because that is what the game is all about really. If there was a huge penalty for dieing via pvp then no one would do it. I would not call dieing from a monster "unskilled" because there are some very strong monsters in the game that you will run across that require a party. There have been a few times soloing that i got jumped by 3 or 4 mobs and had to run for my life....failed a few times at it