The problem is that it really depends on how you define casual. I have a level 50 minstrel, and I am now struggling through the epic quests, currently on book X or so. I am in a nice kin, who help out with the epic quests sometimes, and I even occassionally take part in raids.

However, my real problem is not hat I don't have much time (I don't, but that is not the issue). It is that I don't have much time in one go. I have a 2 year old and a full time job. I can't really rely on having long stretches of uninterrupted time, and often by the time we have set up a group, I need to go again. I have also pissed people off by joining a PUG and then having to leave half an hour into the group quest to attend to a wee girl who can't sleep. And I just don't get much personal satisfaction out of having my kin group up with me to "help out" on an epic quest they have done ages ago - it just feels too much like charity.

To some extent, this is my own fault. Maybe I just shouldn't play MMOs. I find myself restricted to soloing, so I can just log off or take a break whenever I need to, but that sort of defeats the point of an MMO.

I think if LotRO had more public quests, like Warhammer has, where you meet people while you are soloing and join up in a casual way, then it would be a little more casual friendly. At the moment it really isn't.

Originally posted by Terminus-Est

The problem is that it really depends on how you define casual. I have a level 50 minstrel, and I am now struggling through the epic quests, currently on book X or so. I am in a nice kin, who help out with the epic quests sometimes, and I even occassionally take part in raids.

However, my real problem is not hat I don't have much time (I don't, but that is not the issue). It is that I don't have much time in one go. I have a 2 year old and a full time job. I can't really rely on having long stretches of uninterrupted time, and often by the time we have set up a group, I need to go again. I have also pissed people off by joining a PUG and then having to leave half an hour into the group quest to attend to a wee girl who can't sleep. And I just don't get much personal satisfaction out of having my kin group up with me to "help out" on an epic quest they have done ages ago - it just feels too much like charity.

To some extent, this is my own fault. Maybe I just shouldn't play MMOs. I find myself restricted to soloing, so I can just log off or take a break whenever I need to, but that sort of defeats the point of an MMO.

I think if LotRO had more public quests, like Warhammer has, where you meet people while you are soloing and join up in a casual way, then it would be a little more casual friendly. At the moment it really isn't.

It is often extremely hard to accomplish, but over the course of my years of MMO playing, I've been fortunate enough to meet (but too rarely, I'm afraid) other players who I not only enjoy spending time with, but who also really appreciate and who sometimes even actually share my casual style of play.  I'm patient when they have to go AFK for 5 minutes or even longer to check on dinner, take a phone call, put the baby to nap, or whatever -- and they are also kind and understanding when I have to do the same.
 

It's all about having a good time and it's so special when you meet nice people you enjoy spending time with who are both casual players like yourself and understanding about real life situations that take you AFK and can't wait.

So as long as a player can actually play for a couple hours or so (in game stints of an hour or less preclude doing much besides soloing), brief AFK excursions are really not a problem -- you'd be surprised -- there's quite a few players in the same boat as you are! 

One of the bueties of LotRO is that casual players arern't instantly gimped completely.

Crafted armor is just fine, and even if you only log in for a few hours a week you should be able to purchase enough good gear to play around with.

If you have slightly more time, a full set of crafted teal armor is only VERY slightly worse than raid type gear. It may take you a while, but you'll get it piece by piece, as well as some fine teal rewards for the higher epic books.

The deeds system was awesome for me as a level 50, it's a way to improve your actual charactor, not just gear that will be replaced. Though I'm a deed-whore and giggled like a madman when I found a "new" deed in the old forest I had missed, killing trees.

So far in Moria (just broke in last night), I've already began replacing my old teal armor, with say 4 hours invested, minus smoke and snack breaks.

SPOILER ALERT:

The good news is that even the most casual player with MoM will get to at least see a Balrog, and yes, he is awesome looking. I never saw his buddy in the rift because after 3 or 4 runs through the ealeir bosses I was done with that.

The epic weapon system is awesome, even when you replace the item you're using, you'll get some of your effort back if you deconstruct it . And, there are gobs more deeds.

Moria is a big win so far.

Stromwaltz:  If you define "casual" as quality of play and not time, then I respectfully suggest that with just a little more effort you might discover that LoTRO is an even better game than you realize.  I'm certainly not going to judge what you find enjoyable, and if being able to log in, hook up with one or two others or just go solo, and do whatever quests you can is your speed, then fantastic, LoTRO certainly can be fun just doing that.  However, I would argue that if you put in a little extra effort such that you can regularly be part of a 5 or 6 person fellowship, you'll discover that there is a lot of content geared for that level that is, on the whole, of better quality than what you can only do with with 1 - 3 people.  Again, I manage this by being part of a good kin in which I can post a night that I'm available to group and encourage others to "sign up," or, since I've been even more time constrained recently, I've developed a static group with 5 others and we coordinate with each other to play together, usually on the same night each week.  So long as you can have a good group, larger instances like Fornost become a lot of fun (and given my time constraints I'm not afraid of doing a little online research on an instance in order to understand what it requires and to avoid some of the frustrating learning curve elements).  I AM NOT talking about raids.  Back when I had more time I made it a few times into some of the raids but in general I don't.  My general view of solo play, btw, is that there are any number of single player computer games out there that will deliver a much better solo experience than any MMO will.  But that's just me.

Arato:  You make some good points and I can empathize a bit with your frustration that you think Turbine feels overly pressured to dumb down the game for casuals, but the thing is, the fact that you understand the lock system well, etc. almost by definition defines you are not a casual player.  Likewise, a casual player almost by definition wouldn't be casual if they understood these elements well.  I considered myself something of a medium-core player.  I knew in general terms about all of what you described but still learned a few things from your post.  It takes time and/or good mentors to help you learn about the nuances of the game, something that casuals generally won't have (time or mentors).

trancejeremy:  I'm surprised that you aren't finding LoTRO casual friendly.  Makes me think you've ended up on a less active server or something.  I'd give it a little more time and/or try switching to a more active server (I'm on Elendilmir which I know to be pretty active).

Terminus-Est:  I'll mention again the advantage of finding a static group of people to quest with.  My wife and I did this and one of the main criteria we stated in establishing the group was that we were a bunch of casual players, most with kids, and if you wanted to be part of this static group you needed to be tolerant of interruptions.  I also have a two year old and the others in the group (including another married couple) all have children also.  Taking breaks to attend to crying children is something we all expect and understand.  It may not be real easy to find such people, but it definitely isn't impossible either.  Finding a Kin like mine (http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Mithril_Crowns) can certainly help the process.

Originally posted by stormwaltz

While I love LotRO, and agree with all the facts you presented, I disagree with your conclusions. We appear to define "casual play" differently. Your opening paragraph suggests you define casual as time invested. To me, casual means playing for enjoyment -- not doing the frustrating work required to get through quests designed for the hardcore. I play games to have fun with friends, not to herd cats, bang my head against the wall, grind for rare loot, or accrue e-peen.

I have a level 50, and I'm part of a small social kinship (~15 RL friends) that's uninterested in raiding. I made it to 50 mostly solo, with the remainder being fellowship quests with one or two kin. I don't do PUGs because I think People Are Broken - although I will say that the players of LotRO seem friendlier than the PUGs I encountered in CoX. Still, I agree with the Gaming Demotivational poster about raiding -- "When You Want Your Fun To Depend on Random Strangers."

In my situation, on paper at least, there's virtually nothing to do. Every instance you mentioned in the article is effectively closed to me and my small circle of gaming buddies. Heck, my 50 has only completed Books I and VI of the epic quests. But I still have plenty of areas I haven't seen, quests I haven't done, traits I haven't completed, and -- most importantly -- I can always hang out with my friends.

I agree with stormwaltz except on one tiny point.  CoX probably has the best community of all the MMO's I ever played.  Higher levels are helpful with advice and (if you don't beg for it) generous with their influence/infamy.

LOTRO is a "niche" game.  It really appeals to the fans of the books, which is a good thing.  However to someone who just likes fantasy MMO's in general, they may not find it as appealing and the, uh, reduced amount of soloability will turn people off.   You can thank That Other Game for making people want more soloable content.

Quote:  "LOTRO is a "niche" game. It really appeals to the fans of the books, which is a good thing. However to someone who just likes fantasy MMO's in general, they may not find it as appealing and the, uh, reduced amount of soloability will turn people off. You can thank That Other Game for making people want more soloable content."
 

Huh.  I guess WoW is the standard of measure, and not having played WoW I'm ignorant of that standard.  To me LOTRO is very soloable.  You can easily get a character to the pre-Moria level cap of 50 and not have touched 60% or more of the solo content, and they are regularly adding new FREE content.  But, I know WoW is a bigger and better financed game, so I can believe that they offer even more.  Though I haven't played WoW, I've played many of Blizzard's other games and there's no question but that they put out quality games.  My bias toward playing single player games if I'm going to "solo" may be playing a part here also.