Originally posted by MrBoots

I have asked around, and nobody knows of anyone that was accepted into beta. I'm starting to think this thing is some kind of scam to sell preorders. Only one month of beta to test a game this complex? You have got to be kidding me.

they have bene in beta since last year with professional testers and with the help of AI /bots if oyu cant understand this then why are you even bothering

PS NO PREORDERS

Originally posted by khaelf

So do you honestly believe that it's possible for an amateur team to release the most advanced MMORPG ever without running any extensive beta tests? I'm really crossing my fingers for that to happen, but it is kind of unlikely.

Yes! Have you ever worked on a single project for around 8 years? As for amateur They all are rather skilled in their fields.

Even the simplest EQ clones require months after months of testing to squash all bugs etc., and even then, after release, the game requires tons of fixes, not to mention balancing changes. Aventurine, however, isn't just making some cookie cutter MMO with nothing but grind in it, they're making a game with seamless world, housing, player run towns, open PVP, collision detection, mounts, sophisticated combat system, naval battles etc., and yet they don't need to do any beta testing whatsoever, even though they're pretty much just a team working out of a garage. They're confident that the game they're supposedly making is going to play well on every hardware configuration conceivable by man and that the servers are going to be just as stable as they were when they did some artificial tests.

They have been testing the entire time its been in  development. If you knew anything about programming and game development. You would know its part of the cycle. They also have had more then a year beta testing with paid beta testers.

Not one person on the planet can expect a mac to be able to play DF. Dev said so. Thus you're wrong again.... sorry? As for the server issue they have developed a new AND unqie server achatecture that uses server clusters in a much more MMO effeicnt manor. Any type of considerable lantency/lag will be due to Distance from the server location and number of hops.

The game's due in decemeber, since they said it's going to be available this year, but that means the master CD should already be on its way. Digital distribution then? OK, I can go with that. There's a beta, but everyone's so secretive about it and follows the NDA so strictly that there are no leaks and not ONE person on the internet knows anybody who's got access to it to confirm that the game we're so eagerly waiting for is indeed being played and tested by someone who's not a member of the dev team. But yeah, whatever, we shouldn't be too envious of those who were lucky enough to receive one of the invites, because they're not really playing the game anyway, as it's too early to test the character development -- they're just hardware testing. Not more than one month till release and they've not even tested the character development yet...

They are only distributing CD's in Europe (I believe) and are going to have the game downloaded else where. Not 100% on that but i know for sure it will be ready via Download no problem thats just a click away.

Would you reveal God if he asked you not to? On a serious note tho, they have all your info and if you breach your contract / NDA you face Harsh concicuences. and there are known people who are in beta. This is because people who post every day 100 times or more. are no longer posting and these said people all went 'missing' at the same time. I think you can even guess why?

 

I've followed the game's development since the very first news about it hit the web and I really want to stay positive about the whole thing, but I've never been much for blind fanboism and the truth is they have never released ANY substantial proof that the game is in a state that allows for gameplay beta testing. Someone goes to Greece to visit them, we get some pics from their offices, some funny coffee cups, monitors and keyboards, and that's pretty much it. Someone's in beta, though we don't know who that is, we don't know what they're doing, what they're really testing, or if there's anything to test at all. The movie they've released a while ago doesn't really prove anything either. Sure it shows some stuff, but somehow I'm still not entirely convinced that the game's ready for release, that the servers are going to be capable of hosting 5000+ clients simultaneously, that all the skills, weapons, races are going to be well balanced, that the game client is going to be stable enough not to give any trouble to any of the thouands of people trying the game out if it does release.

What would make it truth? The records of said company barrowing 9 million for work on a computer game by the name of DF. Do some research its there. Also would a 30 min live video of someone PLAYING the game at a PUBLIC event make it real? What's it gonna take? will you still be Screaming VaporW3ar's while in open beta? How many of you have played Aion? or any other game in dev. Why is DF vaporwear if it doesnt spill all the spoils of the game from the start. They arent telling you nearly anything for a Good reason. Its because they want you to figure it out on your own. Thats half the fun!

Correction! 10,000 concurrent players. It was said by the dev's that they arent to sure where it ends either.  could be more could be less. Its easier to balance spells / skills  if the game has no level's. it will release.

There's not one MMORPG that I want to play more than DFO, and believe me when I say I'm going to be the happiest MMO gamer if I'm wrong about all this, but my gut tells me that it's either a hoax (remember Mourning?) or we're going to have another SB (or worse) on our hands in a few months.

Read the red obviously these are my responses. 

If you indeed do not want another SB, DO NOT RUSH THEM. leave out all the BS Hoax/vaporwear shit. the games real Get the fuck over it.

If anyone knew the history of other MMO's then they wouldn't hate so very much.

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by MrBoots

I have asked around, and nobody knows of anyone that was accepted into beta. I'm starting to think this thing is some kind of scam to sell preorders. Only one month of beta to test a game this complex? You have got to be kidding me.

 

they have bene in beta since last year with professional testers and with the help of AI /bots if oyu cant understand this then why are you even bothering

 

PS NO PREORDERS

Excuse me, you don't know that to be a fact at all.  All you know is what they tell you, without any verification at all.  The only thing you have to go on is blind faith.  Hardly anything that could be called a fact.  You throw these rebuttals around like they are steeped in facts, when they are more whimsy than anything.

That is why there are a lot of questions about this game and a hefty amount of skepticism.

I would not be so bad if they had not announced and canceled beta twice before.  That tends to lead to large dose of skepticism for most of us.
 

Originally posted by attckdog

Originally posted by khaelf

So do you honestly believe that it's possible for an amateur team to release the most advanced MMORPG ever without running any extensive beta tests? I'm really crossing my fingers for that to happen, but it is kind of unlikely.

Yes! Have you ever worked on a single project for around 8 years? As for amateur They all are rather skilled in their fields.

Sorry that is just nonsense, they are all rank amateurs when it comes to developing games, no list of successes to rely on.

Even the simplest EQ clones require months after months of testing to squash all bugs etc., and even then, after release, the game requires tons of fixes, not to mention balancing changes. Aventurine, however, isn't just making some cookie cutter MMO with nothing but grind in it, they're making a game with seamless world, housing, player run towns, open PVP, collision detection, mounts, sophisticated combat system, naval battles etc., and yet they don't need to do any beta testing whatsoever, even though they're pretty much just a team working out of a garage. They're confident that the game they're supposedly making is going to play well on every hardware configuration conceivable by man and that the servers are going to be just as stable as they were when they did some artificial tests.

They have been testing the entire time its been in  development. If you knew anything about programming and game development. You would know its part of the cycle. They also have had more then a year beta testing with paid beta testers.

Not one person on the planet can expect a mac to be able to play DF. Dev said so. Thus you're wrong again.... sorry? As for the server issue they have developed a new AND unqie server achatecture that uses server clusters in a much more MMO effeicnt manor. Any type of considerable lantency/lag will be due to Distance from the server location and number of hops.

If you know anything about testing a MMO, you would understand that internal testing with the small team they have is almost impossible.  Doing a beta closed or open is the only way they are going to get reliable feedback on problems and a short beta is pretty much a joke as the software team won't get any time to respond to problems. 

As to server architecture, you again have no facts to go on, for all we know it is a disaster waiting to happen.  All this talk about lag free large battlesis all hogwash until we actually verify it.  Have you ever heard of hype, this industry is highly guilty of it, not one producer has lived up to it yet and Adventurine won't be any different.

The game's due in decemeber, since they said it's going to be available this year, but that means the master CD should already be on its way. Digital distribution then? OK, I can go with that. There's a beta, but everyone's so secretive about it and follows the NDA so strictly that there are no leaks and not ONE person on the internet knows anybody who's got access to it to confirm that the game we're so eagerly waiting for is indeed being played and tested by someone who's not a member of the dev team. But yeah, whatever, we shouldn't be too envious of those who were lucky enough to receive one of the invites, because they're not really playing the game anyway, as it's too early to test the character development -- they're just hardware testing. Not more than one month till release and they've not even tested the character development yet...

They are only distributing CD's in Europe (I believe) and are going to have the game downloaded else where. Not 100% on that but i know for sure it will be ready via Download no problem thats just a click away.

Would you reveal God if he asked you not to? On a serious note tho, they have all your info and if you breach your contract / NDA you face Harsh concicuences. and there are known people who are in beta. This is because people who post every day 100 times or more. are no longer posting and these said people all went 'missing' at the same time. I think you can even guess why?

 Again you are only guessing, nothing has been released on distribution at all

I've followed the game's development since the very first news about it hit the web and I really want to stay positive about the whole thing, but I've never been much for blind fanboism and the truth is they have never released ANY substantial proof that the game is in a state that allows for gameplay beta testing. Someone goes to Greece to visit them, we get some pics from their offices, some funny coffee cups, monitors and keyboards, and that's pretty much it. Someone's in beta, though we don't know who that is, we don't know what they're doing, what they're really testing, or if there's anything to test at all. The movie they've released a while ago doesn't really prove anything either. Sure it shows some stuff, but somehow I'm still not entirely convinced that the game's ready for release, that the servers are going to be capable of hosting 5000+ clients simultaneously, that all the skills, weapons, races are going to be well balanced, that the game client is going to be stable enough not to give any trouble to any of the thouands of people trying the game out if it does release.

What would make it truth? The records of said company barrowing 9 million for work on a computer game by the name of DF. Do some research its there. Also would a 30 min live video of someone PLAYING the game at a PUBLIC event make it real? What's it gonna take? will you still be Screaming VaporW3ar's while in open beta? How many of you have played Aion? or any other game in dev. Why is DF vaporwear if it doesnt spill all the spoils of the game from the start. They arent telling you nearly anything for a Good reason. Its because they want you to figure it out on your own. Thats half the fun!

Correction! 10,000 concurrent players. It was said by the dev's that they arent to sure where it ends either.  could be more could be less. Its easier to balance spells / skills  if the game has no level's. it will release.

Actually people have played Aion at shows and reputable reviewers have seen, played and reported on it, unlike Darkfall.  Two failed beta announcements pretty much argues against believing much of what Adventurine says.

As to server load that number is absurd, they have NEVER even tried a hundredth of that number on a server.  Talk about blind faith going off the deep edge,  you are way out on even talking about such.   Until the servers are up and subject to player stress that number will not even be known by Adventurine.

There's not one MMORPG that I want to play more than DFO, and believe me when I say I'm going to be the happiest MMO gamer if I'm wrong about all this, but my gut tells me that it's either a hoax (remember Mourning?) or we're going to have another SB (or worse) on our hands in a few months.

 

Read the red obviously these are my responses. 

If you indeed do not want another SB, DO NOT RUSH THEM. leave out all the BS Hoax/vaporwear shit. the games real Get the fuck over it.

If anyone knew the history of other MMO's then they wouldn't hate so very much.

 

So basically all you arguments come from  blind faith, basically taking everything Adventurine says as fact with nothing else to back up your claims.  As noted above, this company has lied multiple times before and you stil profess to believe them?
 

It could be that everything Adventurine has been saying lately is true, anything is possible, but past practices tend to support the vaporware theory far better than your ridiculous blind faith.

so basically im not supposed to listen to the people that would know above all else weather or not the company and game exist ? You still haven't even answered my question! What would it take to make it undeniable fact that the game is releasing in the near future ? I bet God in flesh saying it still wounldn't be enough....

When you saw other games release info and videos do you shout about that too ? I'm willing to bet that you and a good majority of the people on this forum. who say it's never coming out are just saying that, because others are saying it too.

Have fun on the band wagon! Cannot wait for you and others like you to die from heart attacks when it releases.

Although most ignorant forum trolls will no doubt leave darkfall after getting all their precious 'lewtz' stolen!

If it was blind faith, how do i see so clearly. New reports, sections on every MMO site, tons of video's, Public events, Public beta, Goverment involvement, Loan records, ect....

all of which are saying
Dark Fall will be released.

Darkfall remember me about Huxley when they announce the game, was 5 years later ? LOL. Now finaly i read that Huxley (most anticipating MMOFPS 5 years later) is now in Beta, thats a good reason to compare Darkfall with Huxley. I hope Darkfall will be release soon and i will get a beta key  before i have kids that will play this game. 

At no time has anyone seen any kind of ad by RAZORWAX/AVENTURINE hiring testers. We have never heard of any kind of partnership with any kind of business that does software testing. What you will find out eventually is that these professional testers never existed.

They are now a month from release, and they have not hired or trained any game masters. They have not created a billing/account system. The website hasnt been changed in 5 - 7 years. They still don't have a paid community manager or team. Is all of this going to magically appear on the day before release?

I can program that in half a day, that's no argument, specially because it can be done and tested without any public knowledge.

Besides, what's the point in saying it's real or not when there's no decent data pointing towards one end or the other. If anything, I find it suspicious, but we will find out sooner or later.

I think the main point why people say they are skeptic is because they (df) have lied before multiple times already about beta. They have projected a release with a lot of testing undone, with nothing setup to handle such a release.

How can people not be skeptical? Listen to what they're saying? We're tried that before, and again, and again and nothing happened. i think the point being made is, use a little common sense, a little logic. You put trust in those who have earned it.  Aventurine has shown they are not worthy of such trust.

That and just look at the fatcs. There is no information anywhere about the testing, and all the other stuff Ozmodan brought up. Their timetable is not possible. That is simple logic. Then look at past history of this exact same scenario happening multiple times, the conclusion is obvious! The game is not even close to release if anything exists at all.

This argument about darkfall is the same as when someone argues with someone about religion. No matter what you point out, how all contradictions are brought to light, the ending line is " it is all about faith."

Seriously, that is no way to prove something, about anything, especially a game that has been in development for so long and shown to deceive already.

Originally posted by Vynt

I think the main point why people say they are skeptic is because they (df) have lied before multiple times already about beta. They have projected a release with a lot of testing undone, with nothing setup to handle such a release.

How can people not be skeptical? Listen to what they're saying? We're tried that before, and again, and again and nothing happened. i think the point being made is, use a little common sense, a little logic. You put trust in those who have earned it.  Aventurine has shown they are not worthy of such trust.

That and just look at the fatcs. There is no information anywhere about the testing, and all the other stuff Ozmodan brought up. Their timetable is not possible. That is simple logic. Then look at past history of this exact same scenario happening multiple times, the conclusion is obvious! The game is not even close to release if anything exists at all.

This argument about darkfall is the same as when someone argues with someone about religion. No matter what you point out, how all contradictions are brought to light, the ending line is " it is all about faith."

Seriously, that is no way to prove something, about anything, especially a game that has been in development for so long and shown to deceive already.

I agree with this. I heard about one MMO that someone was supposedly making and all they were doing was hyping it up to bring traffic to a website so they could collect ad revenue... Dark Fall reminds me of that.

Originally posted by Vynt

I think the main point why people say they are skeptic is because they (df) have lied before multiple times already about beta. They have projected a release with a lot of testing undone, with nothing setup to handle such a release.

How can people not be skeptical? Listen to what they're saying? We're tried that before, and again, and again and nothing happened. i think the point being made is, use a little common sense, a little logic. You put trust in those who have earned it.  Aventurine has shown they are not worthy of such trust.

That and just look at the fatcs. There is no information anywhere about the testing, and all the other stuff Ozmodan brought up. Their timetable is not possible. That is simple logic. Then look at past history of this exact same scenario happening multiple times, the conclusion is obvious! The game is not even close to release if anything exists at all.

This argument about darkfall is the same as when someone argues with someone about religion. No matter what you point out, how all contradictions are brought to light, the ending line is " it is all about faith."

Seriously, that is no way to prove something, about anything, especially a game that has been in development for so long and shown to deceive already.

You clearly don't realize that rabid fanbois are immune to logic. It doesn't matter if you like the game(what it is supposed to be) or not, want the game to succeed or not, if you show the slightest bit of (well earned) skepticism that any logical person would have, you are labeled a troll. 

But by and far, my favorite fan response is "The facts are... " and then they list stuff that the devs have said with absolutely no way to prove it one way or another, but apparently because the devs said it, they are "facts".

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Vynt

I think the main point why people say they are skeptic is because they (df) have lied before multiple times already about beta. They have projected a release with a lot of testing undone, with nothing setup to handle such a release.

How can people not be skeptical? Listen to what they're saying? We're tried that before, and again, and again and nothing happened. i think the point being made is, use a little common sense, a little logic. You put trust in those who have earned it.  Aventurine has shown they are not worthy of such trust.

That and just look at the fatcs. There is no information anywhere about the testing, and all the other stuff Ozmodan brought up. Their timetable is not possible. That is simple logic. Then look at past history of this exact same scenario happening multiple times, the conclusion is obvious! The game is not even close to release if anything exists at all.

This argument about darkfall is the same as when someone argues with someone about religion. No matter what you point out, how all contradictions are brought to light, the ending line is " it is all about faith."

Seriously, that is no way to prove something, about anything, especially a game that has been in development for so long and shown to deceive already.

 

You clearly don't realize that rabid fanbois are immune to logic. It doesn't matter if you like the game(what it is supposed to be) or not, want the game to succeed or not, if you show the slightest bit of (well earned) skepticism that any logical person would have, you are labeled a troll. 

But by and far, my favorite fan response is "The facts are... " and then they list stuff that the devs have said with absolutely no way to prove it one way or another, but apparently because the devs said it, they are "facts".

Sad, but true.

Even worse was that I was a rabid fan girl myself with the game WAR... it sounded great on paper, and people were supposedly having a great time with the game. Once I got into closed beta and got to play for a while my tune sure changed. Live and learn

I'd put my money on DarFall being a hoax. Been following it for several years and also have yet to hear from or find someone that is in this ellusive beta.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

I'd put my money on DarFall being a hoax. Been following it for several years and also have yet to hear from or find someone that is in this ellusive beta.

Same, and I don't think there is an actual beta in history that didn't have information leaked from it's participants or at least information from any credible source other than the developer.

Yes! Have you ever worked on a single project for around 8 years? As for amateur They all are rather skilled in their fields.

No, I don't believe I have. Working on something for 8 years doesn't make you a professional anyway. We've seen numerous MMORPG-s fail even though the team involved in their development had already released other MMORPG-s before. DFO is being developed by a new team, it's probably the most complex MMORPG to date, yet, according to Aventurine and a bunch of fanbois frothing at their mouths, it requires no beta testing at all. What makes it so different?

They have been testing the entire time its been in development. If you knew anything about programming and game development. You would know its part of the cycle. They also have had more then a year beta testing with paid beta testers.

Nope, I don't know much about programming and neither do you, but that's where the similarities between us end, because I can put two and two together to understand that the whole thing reaks of bs. There are many MMORPG-s out there, most of them very simple in comparison to DFO, I'm sure they all go through the same process or cycle. Some dev team comes up with a feature, they program it, they implement it, they test it internally (paid beta testers), they release it and, more often than not, it's going to be bugged and will require additional fixes and changes anyway. Every major MMORPG released to this date, and I mean EVERY MMORPG, had to go through a stage of testing, where a lot of outside testers had to be let in to test the client on a broad spectrum of hardware configurations. And, just so we're clear on this one, I'm talking about PC-s only. How does Mac have anything to do with what I said I have no idea.

As for the server issue they have developed a new AND unqie server achatecture that uses server clusters in a much more MMO effeicnt manor. Any type of considerable lantency/lag will be due to Distance from the server location and number of hops.

Sure, I've heard that one. It's just that we don't know if it works or even exists, because we haven't seen it, have we? If it's such a great thing then why haven't anybody else come up with it yet? Ok, it's possible that they're a bunch of miracle workers; they have the best server architecture, they have the best MMORPG ever, they have the best combat, the best server ruleset, the best internal beta testers... So what's next? Are they going to come up with a cure for cancer in their spare time? I mean everything's possible, theoretically speaking, but seriously... Some people are going to have a hard time believing all that until they actually see it.

This is because people who post every day 100 times or more. are no longer posting and these said people all went 'missing' at the same time. I think you can even guess why?

There's always a person that will release some information, especially for something as big as DFO. And I'm not even talking about screenshots or gameplay movies. There hasn't even been a word about anybody who says that they're in beta (whether they're telling the truth or not is another story). I know people who have been on the DFO forums from day one, I know people who work as moderators on the forums, I know people who have met the developers in person and NONE of them got invited to this beta that's supposedly going on right now, hell, NONE of them even know anybody who's got access to the beta. How is that possible? What are the chances of having the most talented dev team in the history of MMORPG-s, the most complex MMORPG ever, and the most honest of people as beta testers at the same time? Yeah, all this is just as possible as a couple of meteors hitting the houses of all said spammers at the same time.

What would make it truth?

Beta testers saying it is truth would make it kind of truth, for example. Also, more specific information about the game's features, list of skills, abilities etc. would make it a bit more believable. There were numerous MMORPG-s with actual beta tests going on (some of which I was a part of) that got cancelled for one reason or another. Shadowbane was supposed to be a great, solid game but when I joined the European beta it turned out that the server lags and then crashes with more than 20 people on it. That could be the case with DFO for all I know.

Its because they want you to figure it out on your own. Thats half the fun!

Is this a real argument or an attempt at a joke?

If anyone knew the history of other MMO's then they wouldn't hate so very much.

You might want to rethink what you just said, as it's the exact opposite. Anyone with a tiny bit of experience in MMORPG-s coupled with the ability of logical thinking will be naturally skeptical about this game.

This site keep impress me with the almighy experts, hahaha.. Oh my, you guys should actually try to see your 'expertise comments' from another angle. More nerdy folks is hard to find I guess.

You don't even type it objectivity, you're really thinking that your words are cut in stone and knowing better than anyone else.

Pathetic!

Yay!

Second round of beta invites : )

The haters wont like this at all.

PM me if you have a key to trade.

Originally posted by Vynt

I think the main point why people say they are skeptic is because they (df) have lied before multiple times already about beta. They have projected a release with a lot of testing undone, with nothing setup to handle such a release.

How can people not be skeptical? Listen to what they're saying? We're tried that before, and again, and again and nothing happened. i think the point being made is, use a little common sense, a little logic. You put trust in those who have earned it.  Aventurine has shown they are not worthy of such trust.

That and just look at the fatcs. There is no information anywhere about the testing, and all the other stuff Ozmodan brought up. Their timetable is not possible. That is simple logic. Then look at past history of this exact same scenario happening multiple times, the conclusion is obvious! The game is not even close to release if anything exists at all.

This argument about darkfall is the same as when someone argues with someone about religion. No matter what you point out, how all contradictions are brought to light, the ending line is " it is all about faith."

Seriously, that is no way to prove something, about anything, especially a game that has been in development for so long and shown to deceive already.

I'm skeptical myself, but what you pointed out seems speculation to me, like most of the things people say about this game. There's always NDA but I agree it's a bit weird we lack at least one asshole breaching said NDA to post things about it.

But hey, there has been a presentation in Athens. *shrugs*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-qlpX6j-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9UmX6SY-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMyfwGOd2ek

Anyway, I'd rather not claim either way when there are no evidences for either, I will just keep my suspicions and joke around, since it's always funny to see people fighting over something that doesn't matter at all.

Good god, there are some sad little people on this forum. What kind of crusade are you on that you hate this game so much?