I posted a while back that things were starting to smell like NGE over in City of Heroes, and said that I'd give you guys an update when things developed further.

I'm doing this because a lot of SWG vets often come here asking about good games to play.  In my experience, these folks (myself included) are especially looking for games that:

A) work

B) are fun

C) give you what they advertise

D) don't revamp the entire game after it goes live.

I'm sad to say that since Cryptic has left City of Heroes in the hands of NCsoft alone, the game has begun failing these quality tests.

If you want the details, you can find them here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/211054/page/1

In a nutshell, since Cryptic left, they've released an issue with a game-breaking bug of NGE proportions, advertised an expansion then failed to deliver, forced an unwanted complete game revamp on players instead of the promised expansion (mission architect), and told the current players outright that they won't like the changes, but they're doing them anyways because they will bring in more newer players.  Sound familiar?

So this is a heads up to all my SWG vet friends, if you're thinking of CoH as an alternate online funland, you may want to read the thread linked above for details.  Happy gaming, in a game where they remember that customer satisfaction is still a priority.

never mind. Answered before reading correctly. Move along!

If what the OP says is true then i truely wonder what the hell are corporations thinking?! I mean seriously... is it because they have survey people only taking wows numbers into effect and not looking on places that matter like these forums?

Hell theres like 10 threads a day at the least in multiple game threads that state they want games to change more towards sandboxes.... or even not to chance towars wow like gameplay.. ughh

What you have is NCSoft's Devs wanting to out their own mark on the game, since taking it over completely from Cryptic.

This is also what partially motivated the NGE, at least the extremity of it, SWG was on it's 3rd Dev team by then, with the new studio managers (Rubbenfield, Cao) and wanted to put their own "brilliance" into the game.

Ego.  Freeman basically revealed that decisions are made by MMO devs and managers purely on ego alone.  These guys by and large think their shit doesn't stink, and that they are smarter than everyone else.  This is what leads to the fatal "we know what game you want more than you do" mentality.  Freeman revealed that the failure of the NGE wasn't even anticipated, that it was a complete utter SHOCK to the egos involved that it didn't attract a bunch of new players.

I guess it's going to take another massive failure or more before the industry learns the lesson that you DO NOT make FUNDAMENTAL gameplay changes to a game post launch, NOR do you forsake the players you have for the players you'd like to have.

COH/COV is an ageing MMO with a decent following.  It's not setting the world on fire, but it is profitable and has a following.  The only thing a NGE will do to it is lose the following and make it unprofitable.

If you treat your customers as if they are expendable, they will be.

That is the true lesson of the NGE.

Originally posted by Burntvet

If you treat your customers as if they are expendable, they will be.

That is the true lesson of the NGE.

 

And, I guess DevEGO in the industry has recharged to the point where they can deceive themselves to think that the SWGNGE was a "fluke" that it wasn't a mistake, it was just communicated badly.

So it's going to be tried again, and so, predictably, ANOTHER decently profitable game with a loyal following will go down the toilet and fall to <10K subs.

Sadly, the losers in this are always the loyal players.  Devs just f'ing move on to something else.  This is why I favor the "NGE blacklist", that we should always maintain a list of Devs/managers attached to such cataclysmic game changes and make sure to advocate that no one bother with anything else they end up working on.  Consider any game that, say Cao or Heliass ends up on to be "NGE'd" in advance. 

If we quit buying games these assholes end up working for, ultimately they will be driven out of the industry, and perhaps other Devs will realize that the hot air holding up their ego balloon is the cash that the players pay and quit with the "F- the players" mentality that seems so prevalent.

Also, how many WOW clones have come out since 2005?  And how many of them have 1M subs?  Indeed, do all of them COMBINED equal 1M subs?  I doubt it...

Isn't it time to not only set into stone that NGE's dont work, but also that cloning other games just for the sake of chipping into THEIR playerbase also doesn't work?

Originally posted by salvaje

Originally posted by Burntvet

If you treat your customers as if they are expendable, they will be.

That is the true lesson of the NGE.

 

 

And, I guess DevEGO in the industry has recharged to the point where they can deceive themselves to think that the SWGNGE was a "fluke" that it wasn't a mistake, it was just communicated badly.

So it's going to be tried again, and so, predictably, ANOTHER decently profitable game with a loyal following will go down the toilet and fall to <10K subs.

Sadly, the losers in this are always the loyal players.  Devs just f'ing move on to something else.  This is why I favor the "NGE blacklist", that we should always maintain a list of Devs/managers attached to such cataclysmic game changes and make sure to advocate that no one bother with anything else they end up working on.  Consider any game that, say Cao or Heliass ends up on to be "NGE'd" in advance. 

If we quit buying games these assholes end up working for, ultimately they will be driven out of the industry, and perhaps other Devs will realize that the hot air holding up their ego balloon is the cash that the players pay and quit with the "F- the players" mentality that seems so prevalent.

Also, how many WOW clones have come out since 2005?  And how many of them have 1M subs?  Indeed, do all of them COMBINED equal 1M subs?  I doubt it...

Isn't it time to not only set into stone that NGE's dont work, but also that cloning other games just for the sake of chipping into THEIR playerbase also doesn't work?

I beg to differ a bit on the loser part. YEs... the players lose.. especially the loyal ones. But when its all said and done, the company loses.. a lot of money. And not only that.. they lose alot of trust via word of mouth? What your getting a game from that developer? Nah... dont do that, theyll just shaft you.. oh really? Thanks!

It happens all the time. I saw a person tell someone (in a gamestop store no less) that wanted to play war the other day that it was just another wow clone with a different sprinkle. The put it down so fast i thought they were going to break the stand. The man thanked the guy shortly after.

Word ..of... mouth.. kills...

So far I've not seen individuals involved in things like the NGE suffer anything but an ego bruise.  Fact of the matter is there are always other projects/companies for them TO jump to, and who ARE willing to hire them.

Dan Rubbenfield, for example who has no f'ing business working for a game company that produces anything more complex than Simon clones (the 80's electronic game).  Hell, Simon in his mind probably needs dumbed down so as to attract WOW players.

John Smedley was IN CHARGE of the whole damn thing and for some reason STILL has his job?!  Just by virtue of SOE's fall from being even close to the top in MMO subscribers, uh, by about 10 million off of it alone should have been reason for him to be replaced.  He must know where every skeleton in every senior Sony executive and large shareholder's closet is buried.

I still like CoH, it's still a quality game, but the NCSoft devs aren't as good as Cryptic's were, and the issue patches are taking longer than they used to. They're splitting the current project into issue 11 and 12 seperately and added a few nice things like multiple builds (though you have to regrind from 1-50 if you want the second one), and "day jobs" as well as architecture are what a lot of people look forward to, and I like the revamped patron powers since that was much needed. However I'm not very fond of the shields set though.

All in all, don't compare the NGE to CoH.

If CoH does indeed gets its very own NGE, sure, the company will take the financial hit, but the poor players that have been loyal, paying customers will suffer a horrible betrayal.

I haven't played CoH, nor do I plan to, so I cannot quite fathom the extent of the planned revamp, but if it does the following....

• It negates the time and effort players have invested in the game.
• It negates the gear, items and rewards players have acquired in the game.
• It fundamently changes core play styles and re-invents existing professions and skills (or removes them).
• Dumbs down portions of the game to appeal to a 'wider, potential audiece'.
• Instituting wide sweeping game changes the vast majority of players do not want because the company wants to attract potential new players.

.....then this is a revamp of the same magnitude of SWG's NGE, which has been one of the biggest, if not THE biggest MMO blunder of all time. To betray an exisitng playerbase due to fantasies of drawing more 'potential' players with a 'new, improved' game model will end up badly for all concerned, except the savvy 'potential' new players that will run in the opposite direction.

I certainly hope this does not come to pass for the players of CoH. No loyal, paying mmo player deserves the misfortune of experiencing an NGE, especially becasue of  'vaporplayers'.

Originally posted by Kazara

If CoH does indeed gets its very own NGE, sure, the company will take the financial hit, but the poor players that have been loyal, paying customers will suffer a horrible betrayal.

I haven't played CoH, nor do I plan to, so I cannot quite fathom the extent of the planned revamp, but if it does the following....

• It negates the time and effort players have invested in the game.
• It negates the gear, items and rewards players have acquired in the game.
• It fundamently changes core play styles and re-invents existing professions and skills (or removes them).
• Dumbs down portions of the game to appeal to a 'wider, potential audiece'.
• Instituting wide sweeping game changes the vast majority of players do not want because the company wants to attract potential new players.

.....then this is a revamp of the same magnitude of SWG's NGE, which has been one of the biggest, if not THE biggest MMO blunder of all time. To betray an exisitng playerbase due to fantasies of drawing more 'potential' players with a 'new, improved' game model will end up badly for all concerned, except the savvy 'potential' new players that will run in the opposite direction.

I certainly hope this does not come to pass for the players of CoH. No loyal, paying mmo player deserves the misfortune of experiencing an NGE, especially becasue of  'vaporplayers'.

The irony is that the NGE is the biggest blunder in the history of MMO's with 2nd place belonging to the Combat Downgrade...

The CU was radical enough.  The NGE set even that on it's face.

Sad thing is that most adapted to the CU and realized that it had potential if developed.  Which was seen by those who experienced TOOW during the 2 weeks we had it in CU. We saw that SOME Pre-CU elements done away with could be made up for by just fucking awesome content and storyline/.

The NGE removed all potential.

It also made Mustafar a joke, with instances being soloed.

Originally posted by Kazara

If CoH does indeed gets its very own NGE, sure, the company will take the financial hit, but the poor players that have been loyal, paying customers will suffer a horrible betrayal.

I haven't played CoH, nor do I plan to, so I cannot quite fathom the extent of the planned revamp, but if it does the following....

• It negates the time and effort players have invested in the game.
• It negates the gear, items and rewards players have acquired in the game.
• It fundamently changes core play styles and re-invents existing professions and skills (or removes them).
• Dumbs down portions of the game to appeal to a 'wider, potential audiece'.
• Instituting wide sweeping game changes the vast majority of players do not want because the company wants to attract potential new players.

.....then this is a revamp of the same magnitude of SWG's NGE, which has been one of the biggest, if not THE biggest MMO blunder of all time. To betray an exisitng playerbase due to fantasies of drawing more 'potential' players with a 'new, improved' game model will end up badly for all concerned, except the savvy 'potential' new players that will run in the opposite direction.

I certainly hope this does not come to pass for the players of CoH. No loyal, paying mmo player deserves the misfortune of experiencing an NGE, especially becasue of  'vaporplayers'.

I think it would be more accurate to say, it's headed in the NGE direction.  If I was going to be very precise, this is more like the CU, with elements of the NGE.  Here's what I mean:
 

-yes it negates the time and effort players have put into the game.  People have worked on their builds for months or years, and the revamps will make many of the powers irrelevant.  In these soon to be irrelevant powers, people have placed sets of crafted, multimillion dollar enhancements.  You have to quest for some of the drops that go into these.  Some of the best drops or enhancements come from the most challenging task forces etc. in the game.  If you don't get the drops, you can buy them on the market, but they are VERY pricey.  As an example, in the unwanted pvp revamp, I'm losing the use of superspeed, teleport, caltrops, and my power that protects me from things like holds and stun.  I have very costly, crafted enhancement sets, or pieces of sets, in ALL of those powers that are being changed or suppressed. 

-covered in the first point.

-yes my character's powers, and build, and the dynamics of the gameplay that are enjoyable are being fundamentally altered or removed.  A big part of the game is the 3 dimensional, fast-paced, super-powered combat.  All of the travel superpowers are being suppressed or disabled.  Not only does this equal power and skill changes, but it also removes the enjoyable 3D super-powered combat that current players enjoy.  Additionally, melee toons are losing all of their protection against ranged state attacks like holds and stuns.  Essentially, melee toons will be hit by ranged holds, and then killed--period.  Since I have a multi-million dollar, melee pvp toon, I find this unappealing.

-all of the changes I've mentioned, and many others that I haven't, are being made with the goal of dumbing down the system to make it more appealing to people who aren't currently playing, and one of the Execs (not sure of his exact title) has said that current players won't like it, but they're doing it anyways.

-you can add to this a promised mission architect (content/expansion) that was pushed back to a later issue, and we are getting the unwanted revamp instead.  The difference between this and the NGE is that the expansion is covered by the sub fee.  Still, I did by an extra 60 day time card because of the advertised expansion content, and now I won't get it.  I'm sure many others did the same.

-you can add to this that the community rep first said that the changes were not being made for current players, then later after getting his ass kicked, he reversed his statement and said that the changes are being made for current players.

-heh, you can add to this the fact that the pvp community (my friends) were asked to test the current game and provide information on current bugs and issues that would make the current game better.  Think CURB and you'll know what I mean.  Most of this input is being chucked out in favour of the unwanted revamp aimed at potential new players.

-also, the unwanted revamp follows an issue that was released with something called the "sync" bug.  This bug left players unable to move, enter combat, interact with objects, buy, sell, craft etc. for an entire month.  All they could do was chat and tell their friends how screwed they were.  It affected thousands.  It was reported in beta, and allowed to go live anyways. 

-another similarity is the inevitable forum war that has erupted over this.  Those that don't want their game to get negative press, even if it's true, are saying things like, "so what if the pvper's all leave, [censor] them, we'll get along fine without them.

So, if you look at this list, there are shades of CU and NGE type things going on.  I'd say it's not a severe as the NGE (really how could anything be that severe), but it certainly has some parallels with both of SWG's unwanted revamps.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Kazara

If CoH does indeed gets its very own NGE, sure, the company will take the financial hit, but the poor players that have been loyal, paying customers will suffer a horrible betrayal.

I haven't played CoH, nor do I plan to, so I cannot quite fathom the extent of the planned revamp, but if it does the following....

• It negates the time and effort players have invested in the game.
• It negates the gear, items and rewards players have acquired in the game.
• It fundamently changes core play styles and re-invents existing professions and skills (or removes them).
• Dumbs down portions of the game to appeal to a 'wider, potential audiece'.
• Instituting wide sweeping game changes the vast majority of players do not want because the company wants to attract potential new players.

.....then this is a revamp of the same magnitude of SWG's NGE, which has been one of the biggest, if not THE biggest MMO blunder of all time. To betray an exisitng playerbase due to fantasies of drawing more 'potential' players with a 'new, improved' game model will end up badly for all concerned, except the savvy 'potential' new players that will run in the opposite direction.

I certainly hope this does not come to pass for the players of CoH. No loyal, paying mmo player deserves the misfortune of experiencing an NGE, especially becasue of  'vaporplayers'.

I think it would be more accurate to say, it's headed in the NGE direction.  If I was going to be very precise, this is more like the CU, with elements of the NGE.  Here's what I mean:
 

-yes it negates the time and effort players have put into the game.  People have worked on their builds for months or years, and the revamps will make many of the powers irrelevant.  In these soon to be irrelevant powers, people have placed sets of crafted, multimillion dollar enhancements.  You have to quest for some of the drops that go into these.  Some of the best drops or enhancements come from the most challenging task forces etc. in the game.  If you don't get the drops, you can buy them on the market, but they are VERY pricey.  As an example, in the unwanted pvp revamp, I'm losing the use of superspeed, teleport, caltrops, and my power that protects me from things like holds and stun.  I have very costly, crafted enhancement sets, or pieces of sets, in ALL of those powers that are being changed or suppressed. 

-covered in the first point.

-yes my character's powers, and build, and the dynamics of the gameplay that are enjoyable are being fundamentally altered or removed.  A big part of the game is the 3 dimensional, fast-paced, super-powered combat.  All of the travel superpowers are being suppressed or disabled.  Not only does this equal power and skill changes, but it also removes the enjoyable 3D super-powered combat that current players enjoy.  Additionally, melee toons are losing all of their protection against ranged state attacks like holds and stuns.  Essentially, melee toons will be hit by ranged holds, and then killed--period.  Since I have a multi-million dollar, melee pvp toon, I find this unappealing.

-all of the changes I've mentioned, and many others that I haven't, are being made with the goal of dumbing down the system to make it more appealing to people who aren't currently playing, and one of the Execs (not sure of his exact title) has said that current players won't like it, but they're doing it anyways.

-you can add to this a promised mission architect (content/expansion) that was pushed back to a later issue, and we are getting the unwanted revamp instead.  The difference between this and the NGE is that the expansion is covered by the sub fee.  Still, I did by an extra 60 day time card because of the advertised expansion content, and now I won't get it.  I'm sure many others did the same.

-you can add to this that the community rep first said that the changes were not being made for current players, then later after getting his ass kicked, he reversed his statement and said that the changes are being made for current players.

-heh, you can add to this the fact that the pvp community (my friends) were asked to test the current game and provide information on current bugs and issues that would make the current game better.  Think CURB and you'll know what I mean.  Most of this input is being chucked out in favour of the unwanted revamp aimed at potential new players.

-also, the unwanted revamp follows an issue that was released with something called the "sync" bug.  This bug left players unable to move, enter combat, interact with objects, buy, sell, craft etc. for an entire month.  All they could do was chat and tell their friends how screwed they were.  It affected thousands.  It was reported in beta, and allowed to go live anyways. 

-another similarity is the inevitable forum war that has erupted over this.  Those that don't want their game to get negative press, even if it's true, are saying things like, "so what if the pvper's all leave, [censor] them, we'll get along fine without them.

So, if you look at this list, there are shades of CU and NGE type things going on.  I'd say it's not a severe as the NGE (really how could anything be that severe), but it certainly has some parallels with both of SWG's unwanted revamps.

I am so glad I didn't end up on that game.  I think after going thru another game with massive CHANGES, I might break out the super nintendo again and just stay there.

I still have hope for STO.  Cryptic gets out and a CU/NGE type affair takes over their old game, but at least while they were at the helm, I've heard none of this type of stuff happening.

Sorry Arc.

Originally posted by Esquire1980

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Kazara

If CoH does indeed gets its very own NGE, sure, the company will take the financial hit, but the poor players that have been loyal, paying customers will suffer a horrible betrayal.

I haven't played CoH, nor do I plan to, so I cannot quite fathom the extent of the planned revamp, but if it does the following....

• It negates the time and effort players have invested in the game.
• It negates the gear, items and rewards players have acquired in the game.
• It fundamently changes core play styles and re-invents existing professions and skills (or removes them).
• Dumbs down portions of the game to appeal to a 'wider, potential audiece'.
• Instituting wide sweeping game changes the vast majority of players do not want because the company wants to attract potential new players.

.....then this is a revamp of the same magnitude of SWG's NGE, which has been one of the biggest, if not THE biggest MMO blunder of all time. To betray an exisitng playerbase due to fantasies of drawing more 'potential' players with a 'new, improved' game model will end up badly for all concerned, except the savvy 'potential' new players that will run in the opposite direction.

I certainly hope this does not come to pass for the players of CoH. No loyal, paying mmo player deserves the misfortune of experiencing an NGE, especially becasue of  'vaporplayers'.

I think it would be more accurate to say, it's headed in the NGE direction.  If I was going to be very precise, this is more like the CU, with elements of the NGE.  Here's what I mean:
 

-yes it negates the time and effort players have put into the game.  People have worked on their builds for months or years, and the revamps will make many of the powers irrelevant.  In these soon to be irrelevant powers, people have placed sets of crafted, multimillion dollar enhancements.  You have to quest for some of the drops that go into these.  Some of the best drops or enhancements come from the most challenging task forces etc. in the game.  If you don't get the drops, you can buy them on the market, but they are VERY pricey.  As an example, in the unwanted pvp revamp, I'm losing the use of superspeed, teleport, caltrops, and my power that protects me from things like holds and stun.  I have very costly, crafted enhancement sets, or pieces of sets, in ALL of those powers that are being changed or suppressed. 

-covered in the first point.

-yes my character's powers, and build, and the dynamics of the gameplay that are enjoyable are being fundamentally altered or removed.  A big part of the game is the 3 dimensional, fast-paced, super-powered combat.  All of the travel superpowers are being suppressed or disabled.  Not only does this equal power and skill changes, but it also removes the enjoyable 3D super-powered combat that current players enjoy.  Additionally, melee toons are losing all of their protection against ranged state attacks like holds and stuns.  Essentially, melee toons will be hit by ranged holds, and then killed--period.  Since I have a multi-million dollar, melee pvp toon, I find this unappealing.

-all of the changes I've mentioned, and many others that I haven't, are being made with the goal of dumbing down the system to make it more appealing to people who aren't currently playing, and one of the Execs (not sure of his exact title) has said that current players won't like it, but they're doing it anyways.

-you can add to this a promised mission architect (content/expansion) that was pushed back to a later issue, and we are getting the unwanted revamp instead.  The difference between this and the NGE is that the expansion is covered by the sub fee.  Still, I did by an extra 60 day time card because of the advertised expansion content, and now I won't get it.  I'm sure many others did the same.

-you can add to this that the community rep first said that the changes were not being made for current players, then later after getting his ass kicked, he reversed his statement and said that the changes are being made for current players.

-heh, you can add to this the fact that the pvp community (my friends) were asked to test the current game and provide information on current bugs and issues that would make the current game better.  Think CURB and you'll know what I mean.  Most of this input is being chucked out in favour of the unwanted revamp aimed at potential new players.

-also, the unwanted revamp follows an issue that was released with something called the "sync" bug.  This bug left players unable to move, enter combat, interact with objects, buy, sell, craft etc. for an entire month.  All they could do was chat and tell their friends how screwed they were.  It affected thousands.  It was reported in beta, and allowed to go live anyways. 

-another similarity is the inevitable forum war that has erupted over this.  Those that don't want their game to get negative press, even if it's true, are saying things like, "so what if the pvper's all leave, [censor] them, we'll get along fine without them.

So, if you look at this list, there are shades of CU and NGE type things going on.  I'd say it's not a severe as the NGE (really how could anything be that severe), but it certainly has some parallels with both of SWG's unwanted revamps.

 

I am so glad I didn't end up on that game.  I think after going thru another game with massive CHANGES, I might break out the super nintendo again and just stay there.

I still have hope for STO.  Cryptic gets out and a CU/NGE type affair takes over their old game, but at least while they were at the helm, I've heard none of this type of stuff happening.

Sorry Arc.

Thanks for the thoughts.  I can at least say I had a good 2 and a half years there.  Ironically I bet many of the people that leave CoH over this will end up with Cryptic's new Champion's online--probably the very thing NCsoft hoped to prevent.  Right now I'm going to play a console game and try not to delete my own progress lol.

P.S. The unwanted revamp (one of the concerns I'm highlighting, not the sum of them all) is still in open beta.  There is still time for them to recognize what they're doing and the impact it is having on their game community.  This is kind of like when the CU was in beta testing.  Remember how many of the unwanted changes were universally hated?  Well SOE assumed that the feedback was so negative that it couldn't be true.  Just imagine what would have happened in either game revamp for SWG if someone would have said, "jeez I think we're going in the wrong direction with this revamp, let's actually listen to the players and make them an important part of improving our game."  NCsoft still has the opportunity to do this.  It's not too late, but it soon will be if they don't change their track.  This won't of course undo things like the sync bug, or likely bring the mission architect back to Issue 13, but it will prevent them from adding an unwanted revamp to their list of recent problems.

Another fine read, many thanks Arch. Played CoH at launch, left around the time when capes were put in the game as a level reward. Came back and started over about a year or so later only to have the character class I chose practically nullified by a nerf. Stopped after that and haven't been back.

I can see them fearing the upcoming superhero titles but instead of punishing their existing playerbase for their loyalty in the twilight of the game's existence - they should keep things stable and add content and reward them for their support. As the subs ebb, they go out with respect and no cancellation crisis. In this way, they could exist longer than they will with an overhaul.

Simply put, everyone in the mmo world knows CoH and if they haven't played it yet - chances are they won't even when given an NGE level change. Those that have played  and stayed are who they should be taking care of. They stayed and know full out whats to come but again - they keep renewing. Sure their number is dwindling but its still a sight better than the bloodfest that an NGE causes.

Here's to looking forward to Champions Online. Their devs have demonstrated an incredible knack for listening to the playerbase even before they have subscribed.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I posted a while back that things were starting to smell like NGE over in City of Heroes, and said that I'd give you guys an update when things developed further.

I'm doing this because a lot of SWG vets often come here asking about good games to play.  In my experience, these folks (myself included) are especially looking for games that:

A) work

B) are fun

C) give you what they advertise

D) don't revamp the entire game after it goes live.

I'm sad to say that since Cryptic has left City of Heroes in the hands of NCsoft alone, the game has begun failing these quality tests.

If you want the details, you can find them here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/211054/page/1

In a nutshell, since Cryptic left, they've released an issue with a game-breaking bug of NGE proportions, advertised an expansion then failed to deliver, forced an unwanted complete game revamp on players instead of the promised expansion (mission architect), and told the current players outright that they won't like the changes, but they're doing them anyways because they will bring in more newer players.  Sound familiar?

So this is a heads up to all my SWG vet friends, if you're thinking of CoH as an alternate online funland, you may want to read the thread linked above for details.  Happy gaming, in a game where they remember that customer satisfaction is still a priority.

 

Ive tried CoH on 3 different occasions. It never makes me want to stay very long.

The missions are the same...enter a building and clear, enter a cave and clear. rinse and repeat

The grind takes waaaaaay too long. I dont think I got any toons beyond lvl 24 and I was forcing myself to play after lvl 14. I left the account active for a few months and let my son play. He never got past the low 30's, the gameplay is just to boring.

They did add some crafting but its an afterthought and very tedious.

There really isnt much to do besides run mission after boring mission.

What CoH does it did very well. character creation remains the ultimate standard for MMO's to emulate. But in the end, CoH is just too simplistic for me.

Make sure to thank the NGE players for any major CoH revamp. Had SWG totally dropped to zero population and shut down you can bet NCSoft wouldnt be doing any revamp to CoH

You are categorically incorrect.  Amazingly incorrect, in fact.

PvP is being redone in CoX because PvP in that game is epic fail.  PvE is the same as ever.

Advertised expansion?  What expansion?  There hasn't been a CoX expansion on the radar since CoV.  NC, as a rule, doesn't normally do paid expansions at all.

Yes, Mission Architect was delayed because it was missing a crucial, critical feature:  customizable bosses.  The wisely pushed MA back until they can do it right, and when it does come out, it's going to be fantastic.

NGE?  You don't know the meaning of the word!

That's a right bummer, I know a few people who play CoH and they wont be happy as they left SWG due to the NGE (as did I) and now they get another one.

Sometimes games companies amaze me....I understand the need for new customers but not at the expense of current ones.

I gotta say, those of you who make the claim about "the NCsoft devs" and how they are not as good as the cryptic team; you do realize that pretty much the entire cryptic team was brought over to NcSoft and stayed on CoH save maybe one person.

And not many people liked the way Jack handled the game anyway.

They're revamping pvp and how many people in CoX actually pvp? Yeah, like 10% of the game's population, and their idea of auto snaring upon being attacked is going to kill pvp rather than attract more. They're hardly touching pve except revamping the patrons which was needed, I don't know if I like having to regrind 1-50 for a second build on the multi-builds feature.

They've already revamped the archtypes drastically back in issue 4 for balance, before that you were able to pwn even the hardest mob with your eyes closed and arena fights would always end up in a stalemate after 2 hours, but after issue 5, especially scrappers lost their uberness and you needed to actually think to kill things, but the introduction of craftable enhancements (purples most importantly) is making the game a little too easy again.