Some of you may know that Cryptic and NCsoft parted ways about a year back now.  After this happened, NCsoft started saying things like, "now we can take this game to a whole new level."  Tbh, lol, this sounded a bit like SOE's comments around the time of the NGE.  I wasn't too worried though, CoH has always been a quality product with an emphasis on customer satisfaction.

Well, sadly, that's changed.  After the departure of Cryptic, we got Issue 12.  For the first time ever, this introduced a game-wide, game-breaking bug.  Thousands of players on various servers and systems were completely out of sync with the map server for a month's time.  These player's couldn't move, engage in combat or interact with the world.  Shades of NGE I'm afraid.

Oh well, maybe that was just a one time glitch, and there's still nothing to worry about.  I wish that was true, but then NCsoft advertised a much requested mission creator for Issue 13.  It's fair to say that everyone was very excited about this promised content.  I went out and bought a new 60 day time card so that I could play it.

Then we got two announcements.  Number 1: MIssion architect will be delayed and will not come out for Issue 13 as originally advertised.  Number 2: The game is going to undergo a complete revamp with the hope of making it more appealing to new players.

NCsoft couldn't really be going in this direction after SOE set such a shining example of what not to do with an MMO could they?

Well earlier this week, both Matt Miller and the community rep (Lighthouse) said that the game changes are not designed for current players.  They expect that current players will be unhappy, but that's okay because of all the new players that the unwanted revamps will bring in.

Lighthouse since retracted those statements, and apologized for them, saying that he was mistaken, but Matt Miller's announcement is still up on the main website.  It's very clear that the pvp game especially is being completely dismantled, slowed down, and dumbed down, with the hope that it will appeal to a new playerbase.

It doesn't matter that character building and outfiting your hero with costly and hard to find enhancements is the main draw of the game.  All of this work and effort put into questing, crafting and character building is considered expendable by NCsoft's current leadership. 

I also read about a year ago that a former VP at SOE was going over to [one of the parent companies of CoH--edited for accuracy].  Is that just a scary coincidence?  Really I'm not sure. [Now I am sure, this move has nothing to do with recent events, as far as I know].

And, now the forum wars have begun...of course.  People that are losing everything they enjoy and spent the last 2 or 3 years building are being insulted and shouted down by people who don't want their game to get negative press, even if it's honest.  Again, following the pattern set by SOE, the pattern of what not to do to an MMO, and what not to do to an online community.

So, I've said many glowing things about CoH and NCsoft over the past few years, but this is not the same company and not the same game any longer.  I can no longer say positive things about them in good conscience.  In fact, I feel compelled to tell fellow gamers about what's going on, with the hope that you can avoid the disaster and spare yourself some misery as well as your hard earned cash.

Wow that is horrible. Trust me as a former swg player when I say I feel your pain.

It still amazes me that these companies continue to dumb down their games in the hope of attracting new people, completely unaware that the mentally challenged target audience is already saturated with MMOs, yet there is a complete lack of intelligent, thought provoking MMOs.

First, CoH is a great game, had a relatively smooth release, and the innovative chracter creator is the standard to beat, IMO.

But, it's been around for a while now, so if it's headed into oblivion, se la vie, it had a good run.

If what the OP says is true, seems like a very bad idea.

Why not just release a new game? That's what I thought about NGE. Why not just make it Galaxies Part Deux or something, and leave the original alone till it runs out of gas?

New players will perceive that this is an old game cause it was released a while back, and old players will be pissed because you changed their game. That seems like a lose lose situation.

How much woujld it cost to make a SWG pre-NGE clone, how many people played SWG pre-NGE and would pay to play such a game, and does that equal a profit? I can't imagine why no one is doing this. Sure, it won't compete with WoW, and you won't make a Billion dollars, but seems like it would be profitable.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Some of you may know that Cryptic and NCsoft parted ways about a year back now.  After this happened, NCsoft started saying things like, "now we can take this game to a whole new level."  Tbh, lol, this sounded a bit like SOE's comments around the time of the NGE.  I wasn't too worried though, CoH has always been a quality product with an emphasis on customer satisfaction.

Well, sadly, that's changed.  After the departure of Cryptic, we got Issue 12.  For the first time ever, this introduced a game-wide, game-breaking bug.  Thousands of players on various servers and systems were completely out of sync with the map server for a month's time.  These player's couldn't move, engage in combat or interact with the world.  Shades of NGE I'm afraid.

Oh well, maybe that was just a one time glitch, and there's still nothing to worry about.  I wish that was true, but then NCsoft advertised a much requested mission creator for Issue 13.  It's fair to say that everyone was very excited about this promised content.  I went out and bought a new 60 day time card so that I could play it.

Then we got two announcements.  Number 1: MIssion architect will be delayed and will not come out for Issue 13 as originally advertised.  Number 2: The game is going to undergo a complete revamp with the hope of making it more appealing to new players.

NCsoft couldn't really be going in this direction after SOE set such a shining example of what not to do with an MMO could they?

Well earlier this week, both Matt Miller and the community rep (Lighthouse) said that the game changes are not designed for current players.  They expect that current players will be unhappy, but that's okay because of all the new players that the unwanted revamps will bring in.

Lighthouse since retracted those statements, and apologized for them, saying that he was mistaken, but Matt Miller's announcement is still up on the main website.  It's very clear that the pvp game especially is being completely dismantled, slowed down, and dumbed down, with the hope that it will appeal to a new playerbase.

It doesn't matter that character building and outfiting your hero with costly and hard to find enhancements is the main draw of the game.  All of this work and effort put into questing, crafting and character building is considered expendable by NCsoft's current leadership. 

I also read about a year ago that a former VP at SOE was going over to NCsoft.  Is that just a scary coincidence?  Really I'm not sure.

And, now the forum wars have begun...of course.  People that are losing everything they enjoy and spent the last 2 or 3 years building are being insulted and shouted down by people who don't want their game to get negative press, even if it's honest.  Again, following the pattern set by SOE, the pattern of what not to do to an MMO, and what not to do to an online community.

So, I've said many glowing things about CoH and NCsoft over the past few years, but this is not the same company and not the same game any longer.  I can no longer say positive things about them in good conscience.  In fact, I feel compelled to tell fellow gamers about what's going on, with the hope that you can avoid the disaster and spare yourself some misery as well as your hard earned cash.

I am sorry to say but this whole post is a bunch of hot air with little substance behind it.  

But I will still addressed it.

*Issue 12 other than the bug (which was fixed) was a success.  Most MMORPG's have multiple bugs in an expansion that could be considered game breaking.  This by the way for those that do not know was a free expansion to CoX universe.

*Mission architect is one of the most ambitious ideas they have EVER tried and possible one of the more innovative things attempted in the MMORPG genre in recent memory.  It is not something that can be done so easily over night.  It is better they launch this feature when it is ready, not with a bunch of bugs you supposedly care about (you have already contradicted yourself).

*The revamp of the game is necessary to add in the new features in the near future just like when they swung the nerf bat years ago which lead to having room for the invention system to be put in place.

*PVP game was poor overall compared to other PVP systems in other MMORPG's IMVHO.  The only highlight of the existing PVP system in CoX is that it involves combat that is fast paced due to travel powers.  But that in way devalues the PVP from reaching its pinnacle.  I am not a proponent of the other extreme which castle is suggesting (statue fighting).  A middle ground does need to be found though because the current PVP system is very lackluster.

*There isn't a single MMORPG where your work isn't considered expendable (You know what you are doing by agreeing to a loose binding EULA).  An example?  WoW is erasing all the arena points this Tuesday accumulated by the players participating in the arena.

To be honest if they make the changes I have been craving for (mission variety and a revamped PVP system) it would motivate me to return to the game.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Some of you may know that Cryptic and NCsoft parted ways about a year back now.  After this happened, NCsoft started saying things like, "now we can take this game to a whole new level."  Tbh, lol, this sounded a bit like SOE's comments around the time of the NGE.  I wasn't too worried though, CoH has always been a quality product with an emphasis on customer satisfaction.

Well, sadly, that's changed.  After the departure of Cryptic, we got Issue 12.  For the first time ever, this introduced a game-wide, game-breaking bug.  Thousands of players on various servers and systems were completely out of sync with the map server for a month's time.  These player's couldn't move, engage in combat or interact with the world.  Shades of NGE I'm afraid.

Oh well, maybe that was just a one time glitch, and there's still nothing to worry about.  I wish that was true, but then NCsoft advertised a much requested mission creator for Issue 13.  It's fair to say that everyone was very excited about this promised content.  I went out and bought a new 60 day time card so that I could play it.

Then we got two announcements.  Number 1: MIssion architect will be delayed and will not come out for Issue 13 as originally advertised.  Number 2: The game is going to undergo a complete revamp with the hope of making it more appealing to new players.

NCsoft couldn't really be going in this direction after SOE set such a shining example of what not to do with an MMO could they?

Well earlier this week, both Matt Miller and the community rep (Lighthouse) said that the game changes are not designed for current players.  They expect that current players will be unhappy, but that's okay because of all the new players that the unwanted revamps will bring in.

Lighthouse since retracted those statements, and apologized for them, saying that he was mistaken, but Matt Miller's announcement is still up on the main website.  It's very clear that the pvp game especially is being completely dismantled, slowed down, and dumbed down, with the hope that it will appeal to a new playerbase.

It doesn't matter that character building and outfiting your hero with costly and hard to find enhancements is the main draw of the game.  All of this work and effort put into questing, crafting and character building is considered expendable by NCsoft's current leadership. 

I also read about a year ago that a former VP at SOE was going over to NCsoft.  Is that just a scary coincidence?  Really I'm not sure.

And, now the forum wars have begun...of course.  People that are losing everything they enjoy and spent the last 2 or 3 years building are being insulted and shouted down by people who don't want their game to get negative press, even if it's honest.  Again, following the pattern set by SOE, the pattern of what not to do to an MMO, and what not to do to an online community.

So, I've said many glowing things about CoH and NCsoft over the past few years, but this is not the same company and not the same game any longer.  I can no longer say positive things about them in good conscience.  In fact, I feel compelled to tell fellow gamers about what's going on, with the hope that you can avoid the disaster and spare yourself some misery as well as your hard earned cash.

This sounds to me like a lot of tin-foil hat hyperbole.

---

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I also read about a year ago that a former VP at SOE was going over to NCsoft.  Is that just a scary coincidence?  Really I'm not sure.

---

I don't really see NCSoft following in SOEs footsteps.  1st is how they deal with development.  They dropped all thier small titles and are now exclusively working on major titles.  On the other hand SOE is picking up failing developments.

2nd is how they deal with customers.  SOEs GMs treat thier player base like shit, respond extremely late to support tickets, and don't follow up claims.  NCSoft GMs trear thier player base like shit, respond extremely late to support tickets, and follow up claims then saying they cannot do anything.

3rd is how many games NCSoft has reaching over 1 million subscriptions.  SOE has 1, Everquest.  NCSoft has Lineage, Lineage II, and Guild Wars.

4th is how much money NCSoft invests into thier games.  SOE invests in many interns to do thier work and onnly have to pay 15k salaries to them, giving thier games a budget of $10 million or less.  NCSoft has 3 games in development all with budgets over $100 million.  AION sets a new budget record for a game at $300 million.  In a comment ArenaNet responds, "We can outdo that."

Also there are a few larger mmo companies that are redesigning thier old games.  In alot of cases its for the better.  Such as the Korean Grinders, its always better when they redesign.

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

 

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3

 

I also read about a year ago that a former VP at SOE was going over to NCsoft.  Is that just a scary coincidence?  Really I'm not sure.

---

Prove it.

 

 

I believe this is what he was talking about. However, thats cryptic not NCsoft.

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

 

---

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

 

I also read about a year ago that a former VP at SOE was going over to NCsoft.  Is that just a scary coincidence?  Really I'm not sure.

---

Prove it.

 

 

 Hey someone did find it.  I can't connect this mess in CoH to that particular VP, and that's fine.  I was just wondering out loud if he had a role to play, given his employ at SOE when SWG went to hell.   It would seem not, and that's cool.  Hopefully the guy will have a better run with Cryptic than he did under Smed.  Honestly, I'm happy for him.

As for this being hot air.

Well, the sync bug did exist for a month, it did affect thousands of players, and it did render them unable to move, engage in combat, or interact with the world.  No hot air there I'm afraid, and believe me I wish there was.  The game lost some good people over that fiasco, and it's only minimized by those responsible for it, or by those who weren't affected by it, in my experience.  To those who were affected it was a wasted month of complete frustration.  AND the issue was highlighted in beta, and allowed to go live anyways.

As for the promised architect.  I'm afraid that's not hot air either.  It was highly anticipated, and held back allegedly because they didn't have time to allow people to customize bosses.  However, it would seem that they do have time to completely revamp the game instead.   They could have put in the architect as advertised, and added custom bosses in Issue 14, but nope, gave us an uwanted revamp instead.

Regarding the revamp, also not hot air, and I really wish it was.  In fact, I was being kind.  What happened was that current PvPer's were asked to work together to troubleshoot PvP and provide input to the dev team.  So we did this for months.  People tried all the zones, numerous builds, arena combat, the works.  People compiled a list of all known issues that interfere with PvP or make it a really steep learning curve.  All of this input was supplied to the dev team, and the current revamp scraps almost all of it.

Instead of keeping the current game that people enjoy, and addressing the issues we spent months finding and highlighting, someone up high in the NCsoft foodchain decided to scrap all the work, scrap the game, and start from scratch.  Hot air?  No, cold hard, and very unfortunate facts.

When it soon goes live it will be slow, boring and broken, and people will pay to beta test it in live for months to come.  How do I know this?  Because we were just told that only the foundation of a new PvP game will be released in Issue 13.  People have been beta testing it (open and closed) now for more than a month, and it is a god-awful mess.

As for NCsoft not being like SOE, a few months ago, I would have strongly agreed with you.  However, since the sync bug, architect and unwanted revamp issues have come up all in a row, I'm forced to come to a different conclusion.  It's a real shame too, I had over two and a half good years in that game, before Cryptic left, and before NCsoft decided that current players are expendable.

Well, you got hit by a bug, shit happens and it's already fixed.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Well, you got hit by a bug, shit happens and it's already fixed.

Lol I didn't get hit by it.  Many of my friends did, and some of them left.  Why?  Because they couldn't play the game, at all, for a month, AND because it was reported in Beta and ignored.
 

If you think this is what I'm talking about though, you didn't read my thread.  This is about a game-breaking bug, advertising something and then not delivering, AND most importantly an unwanted game revamp that has the Exec saying they don't care if the current players don't like it.

Seems to me everyone's getting hit by more than "a bug."  I've played that game with costume bugs, for example, for the entire 2 plus years.  Not a problem.  Unable to interact with the map, at all, and having this go live despite being flagged in beta?  Totally different story.  Unwanted game revamp and current players expendable?  Totally different story.

If you keep saying stuff like that, people are going to think you can't read.

Oh by the way, NCsoft is on a big marketting campaign to coincide with the revamp.  Need to get the word out to all the replacement players after all.  So, you can expect all kinds of marketting posts popping up saying that the veteran CoH players who are leaving due to the revamp are full of it.  I've never seen that before tho lol.  Back to following in SOE's footsteps, even with that.

"There's no problem here, we're actually responding to player feedback (oh you mean we said this revamp isn't for current players...crap).  Well anyways, the changes are awesome, and it's sure to be a hit now that we're making the game available to Mac users.  Don't listen to disgruntled players who are leaving, they obviously just can't accept change."  Nope, never heard that before -_^.

Fasten your seatbelts, here we go again...

First, your quote regarding SWG is hysterical. Second, I have long hated the dev bastards of coh and their seemingly endless nerfing of toons that people work so hard on. Floyd "ASStle" Grubb, a more appropriately named man I have never seen, seems little more than a slovenly postule of a man bent on swinging his e-peen around to make him feel like he's doing something. Worse than him is probably the forum fanbois who seem to enjoy basting it. Approving every nerf as if handed down from on high. Emmert had nerfed the 2004 Game of the Year into a shell of its former self to the loss of more than 60% of its previous subscriberbase and still they are not satisfied.  How do you nerf a feature 4 years after its introduced? Even if you weren't in charge before to do so, whats done is done and the game works fine. Yet the idea of introducing new villain groups eludes them. The playerbase has to raise a stink about it before they even conceive of it. Dev asshats.

I never understand arguments like these. SOE is light years ahead of NCSoft. Sony has, and will continue to, rebrand and develop SOE into a much more lucrative extention. It just took them a little while to reaffirm that there is a very lucrative and emerging market worth investing in with SOE. I can honestly say SOE's customer service is spectacularly better than it ever was, even a year ago. NCsoft simply doesn't have the financial backing to compete with companies like SOE, Blizzard, or Bioware. I would argue Sony will continue to refine it's entertainment segment while NCSoft will slowly fade into the backdrop of medicore gaming companies.

Watch them get crushed as companies like zenimaxonline.com/ and MMO companies with simply better development teams and backing, produce better quality games.

That's about it, I just hate NCSoft.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but NCsoft has more financial backing than all of the companies you've just mentioned, excepting Blizzard. Mainly because they keep selling their games at a higher rate than the rest.

Check out their Q3 financial report and tell me which SoE game has better sales.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Sorry to burst your bubble, but NCsoft has more financial backing than all of the companies you've just mentioned, excepting Blizzard. Mainly because they keep selling their games at a higher rate than the rest.

Check out their Q3 financial report and tell me which SoE game has better sales.

SoE is backed by Sony, which is a huge multinational conglemerate.

Bioware is backed by EA the #2 gaming software company in the world

Actiblizz (Vivendi) is the  #1 gaming software company in the world.

Frankly SOE never has to sell another game to have more financial backing than NCsoft.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Ephimero

Sorry to burst your bubble, but NCsoft has more financial backing than all of the companies you've just mentioned, excepting Blizzard. Mainly because they keep selling their games at a higher rate than the rest.

Check out their Q3 financial report and tell me which SoE game has better sales.

 

SoE is backed by Sony, which is a huge multinational conglemerate.

Bioware is backed by EA the #2 gaming software company in the world

Actiblizz (Vivendi) is the  #1 gaming software company in the world.

Frankly SOE never has to sell another game to have more financial backing than NCsoft.

True, those companies behind them are huge, but their MMORPG budgets are limited by the publishers, something NCsoft doesnt have to worry about.

Can Sony outbudget NCsoft, most likely yes, will they? With their actual income from MMO's, I doubt it.

so um what are they doing to the game thats in the footsteps of the NGE( I assume thats what your alluding to).

all i see is a rant about PVP, no offense but PVP in that game sucked so i could care less about that change ... anything else? or are you just one of those chicken littles that with any change cries about how the world is going to end.

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

True, those companies behind them are huge, but their MMORPG budgets are limited by the publishers, something NCsoft doesnt have to worry about.

Can Sony outbudget NCsoft, most likely yes, will they? With their actual income from MMO's, I doubt it.

Doesn't matter where the money comes from. If SOE can develop a game they can sell corporate on, stranger things have happened, the money will flow. NCSoft can't do that, hence they're closing down less profitable properties. If CoH/CoV can't develop enough of a new following to bring in the bucks it's going to get the axe. The current player base isn't lage enogh to justify  the overhead, so the game will be changed for better or worse.  If they lose some players in the process so be it.

That's almost the same as saying that NCsoft investors could invest a bit more and then NCsoft would have a higher budget.

It all comes down to profit, if the invesors/Publishers don't see a huge income out of their past investions, they are most likely going to reduce risks. And it's undeniable that NCsoft has more profit than any of those gaming companies in the MMORPG market, excepting Blizzard.