Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by markoraos

Yet another clueless troll post. Nothing to see here folks move along...

 

ROFL

Yet another "fanboi" post response.  Nothing to see here folks move along...

(I use the word "fanboi" to make a point here...)

 

 

So he's a troll because he doesn't agree with you?  When will you people grow up and just accept that not everyone is going to love your precious game?  The OP did not just post "WAR SUCKS" and call that a post.  He gave very specific and detailed reasons why it doesn't appeal to SOME people.  And crazy as it may SEEM to you....there are quite a few of us who played that agree with his assessment.  Just because YOU don't, does not make him a "troll."

I sure wish the forumites on MMORPG.com would learn the meaning of the words "troll" and "fanboi" because they've been entirely re-defined on this site from their original forum posting meaning. 

 

Nope, he is a troll because his post is a) uninformed and b) biased.

The very premise of the post is faulty. It has nothing to do with opinions. He is stating that WAR sucks because it doesn't have the "grinds" (his words, not mine - I suppose he meant gameplay modes and player motivators) that WOW has. He then proceeds to list what WoW has and WAR doesn't.... without listing what WAR has that is missing from WOW.

So the very basic premise of the OP's post is logically faulty and obviously biased. Therefore he is a troll.

I'll do a partial deconstruction of some of his obviously crappy arguments:

2. Money (no need for money really)

Patently false. Money is very important on guild level in order to claim keeps. Ignorance on the OP's part who pretends knowledge. Troll.

5. Arena

Thank god there are no arenas. Why would lack of arenas be a bad thing per-se is anyone's guess.

6. Badges

I don't see what's the difference between rep farming and badge farming - putting it as a separate category is just artificial inflation to prove his point.
 

7. Loots Not real dungeons to farm, and loots from inf and Rr would be farming that.

Ignorance again. 1/2 the PvE trolls claim that you have to farm those awful huge WAR dungeons for gear and the 1/2 is adamant there are no "real" dungeons in WAR. Please make up your mind.

8. Titles: You can go look for Tome unlocks.

This is dismissed so lightly it makes me want to scream. Anyone who knows anything about WAR's tome unlocks - titles, trophy items, tactics, pocket items knows that there is no comparison here whatsoever with WoW.

That's just a few. However OP completely fails to mention motivators that WAR has bit wow simply hasn't

1) Renown: No, renown and honor are not the same thing at all. WoW honor is a parallel game currency, WAR renown is a complete second leveling system that goes on waaaay beyond the max xp level. 

2) Customization / fluff items: WAR has: 2-color dyeing, trophies, pocket items (giving you exclusive emotes and char effects), titles - decking out your character just the way you want it is a game on its own

3) Guild Levels - on the social plane, guild leveling is a game in itself. You can devote yourself to guild politics and realm-strategy if you wish. Guild trophies and new enhancements and customizations are coming soon.

4) Exploration and high rank adventures in lowbie zones. The world is full of hidden lairs and stuff to discover. Once I get to 40 I plan to unlock the entire game map and search out those rare/epic mobs and PQs for those awesome unlocks and rewards.

5) The RvR campaign. Even if there were no other "grinds" in the game, it would be worth playing only for the strategic gameplay in the endgame. In fact the idea of getting a rank 40 character and playing the game in T4 only isn't bad at all... It would definitely be enough content there alone to justify WAR as a mmo.

Godliest, go and play WAR and you will see what im saying, the numbers are real, what i see is you don't know how it looks WAR or / and WoW, play both games for few weeks and you will see the difference, and if you need to play a real PvP game, then play Lineage2.

Originally posted by Godliest

 

---

Originally posted by expertphp
WAR is nothing ! Is a down grade version of WoW !
This is a comparation in my opinion because i play both games:
Graphic: WAR 4/10  |  WoW 7/10
Classes: WAR 4/10  |  WoW 10/10
Combat: 3/10  |  WoW 8/10
Lore: 3/10  |  WoW 8/10
Quests: 2/10  |  WoW 9/10
 

---

 

wow. You just gave WoW's quest a 9/10 and the difference between the WoW and WAR quests are that the WAR greenskins ones are funny while all WoW quests are boring. Classes 10/10 in WoW when they're also pretty much the same as in WAR? Although the WAR classes are more creative and different. I usually don't go around screaming troll at everyone but just, wow, you get the title for proving that your knowledge of either WoW or WAR is not just zero but actually a negative number. Apart from that I agree with the OPs "major point": WAR is too much of a grind. And while the PvP is decently fun it's still very much too dead on my server at the moment for me to be able to organize any form of open PvP party larger than 3 people and scenarios rarely start.

he has a few points though... Do you know many underwater quests in War? Or any flying mount quests? Air Bombardments quests? Daily BG quests? Daily profession quests? Daily Heroic dungeons quests?

Classes? Name one War class that can be a tank, a group healer and a DPS in one class? Like a Druid or paladin in that other game? You reset the 61 talent points of the one class and have 3 classes in one. No need to level 3 characters...

I would rate the PvP combat itself more like War=4 and Wow=9.5. That killed the game for me btw. Full and fluid control of your avatar should have been priority number one for War. if you want to make the best PvP/RvR game, you better have the best PvP combat controls in the industry. Person versus combat, not person versus control. I was mostly struggling more with the unresponsive controls than with a player.

GW and Wow have better controls for PvP fights.

I miss the RvR in those games, but Mythic should have developped the basics of PvP combat and I would have played it 6 hours a day.

It is pretty clear what went wrong with WAR :

Scenarios gave the most XP and RP, so people played Scenarios, again and again and again. But not all of the Scenarios, no, cause if you stayed in 1 place and took the quests then do the same scenario over and over again ( Tor Anroc in T3 ) then you leveled faster and got more cash ...

Plus the whole campain thing is way to orchestrated, give me DAOC Old Frontiers over this any day, THAT was RvR. This is just not IT.

Many other mistakes were made, but these are the most important. They can fix it in US, but it is too late for Europe, cause by the time transfers are in here, there will be no more people left ( 48 Order players online at 23:15 CET on Finuval plain on a saturday ... )

I thinkthe combat and the PVE are ok, those are not the real issue.

Greetz

Originally posted by markoraos

 

5. Arena

Thank god there are no arenas. Why would lack of arenas be a bad thing per-se is anyone's guess.

6. Badges

I don't see what's the difference between rep farming and badge farming - putting it as a separate category is just artificial inflation to prove his point.
 

I am not in the mood to answer everything in your post.

But we play a lot arena and we like it a lot. With various classes btw. It's just another option in the end game and it's there for those hardcore PvP players that like it. It's not because you see posters complain about their losses in arena that players don't like to play it. On the contrary.

As for badges, it's a good added option for those doing PvP (or PVE even). In the latest additions you can choose PvE OR PvP gear with it, without the need for running certain dungeons or raids like you did in old TBC.

Badges in the daily heroics and smaller raids allow  far more freedom and choice in play. But perhaps you don't know this playing option, since it's rather a new concept (together with the 3 class token drops) All these techniques have the advantage that you can concentrate on the things you like to do most.

You only play that part of the game what you like most. Like a rotating daily BG, two or three daily world PvP quests, a daily profession quest and a rotating heroic dungeon quest. Raids is just for a weekend for most and not even needed with the rotating badges system. But I certainly play about 80 or 100 arenas a week and that's my main focus.

Originally posted by Pangaea

I am giving a reason why peopel are getting bored with War alot sooner than lets say.. other competing MMOS.

it goes with more than just WoW.. LOTRO, EQ2, EQ, FFXI, all those kept thier players MUCH longer enthralled cause of thier multiple layers of things to do.

War seems to have 4 things to really do.

Scenarios (wich is what everyone is doing)

Open RVR lakes (on high hours you can catch a keep being attacked otherwise get a group and look for trouble)

Questing (same ole same ole)

Lore searching can be fun if you dont' want ot PVP. or scenarios aren't popping)

 

Well as you mentioned previously WAR has to compete with WoW as it is now. And I'll tell you this. After a few years WoW has me bored to tears. It can't compete with WAR as new. And the expack won't change that. Same boring crap just different mobs. And if it's not the same boring crap it's crap they stole from elsewhere that's being trashed now but in 12 months will be touted out as epic wow play.

I unlike some here enjoy WAR. Not for what it is now but for what it will build into.

I played WoW at beta and while people can post bulltish about what WoW is I remember what it was like. I also played DAOC and that kept me playing for longer then WoW. Simply put I enjoy RvR. And so what if I raid the same old keeps in the same old zones every weekend day in and day out. Because you know what... I (and to be frank I don't give a rats arse about you, go play something you enjoy) will be having fun with my mates and the 'enemy' players I have also built a community with.

<shrug> WoW won't see another penny of my coin. Been there done that and much like EQ1 to go back after more then a year and a half break puts you so far behind the curve in levels and gear it's pointless... When I finally tire of  WAR which as it curently stands will be a while off I'll most likely move on to look at some of the new games coming.

let's face it. WoW fanbois and WAR fanbois will never convince each other to change. Those of us who play what we enjoy just want them to go away quietly and play whatever they want. Maybe WoW fanbase see the writing on the wall with the new games on the horizon. Reason Bliz is taking a few ideas from WAR to put into WoW...maybe they don't suck as much as fanbois like to think loosing a few players from each game will add up over time and I think Bliz know that.

As far as this whole thread goes. I only find things a grind when I HAVE to do them. And the fact I can play solo for 30 mins if I choose and still have fun in WAR appeals to me more then the crap WoW dish out as entertainment.

WoW have lost me for good. But being a games workshop fan it never really had a chance once Warhammer was on the horizon.

Originally posted by Coir

Been there done that and much like EQ1 to go back after more then a year and a half break puts you so far behind the curve in levels and gear it's pointless...

Not true at all and probably the worst of times to even say it. People can complain about WOW's expansions with 10 extra levels all they want but it does have one good thing at least and that's that it gives new players and returning players alike the opportuinity to be at equal footing with the rest of the players again.

In a few days when Wotlk starts those players will have very little on a new player that runs into Wotlk.

Originally posted by Lizante

Bah.  WAR is PvP.  Arguably the BEST PvP of any MMO to date.

The rest really doesn't matter.  Get to max level ASAP (every MMO player understands that!) then is PvP, baby!  

It's ALL about PvP! :)

WAR is designed so that you start RvR! (PvP+PVE, PQ are part of RvR) in the first tier. Getting to max lvl ASAP, simply makes you ignore loads of content and turn WAR into every other MMO where the so called fun starts at max lvl.

Scenarios should never have been in WAR. For me it has been an obvious mistake to include them. And open RvR areas should be more rewarding.

Thanks to those players who are rushing to max lvl and the fact that scenarios are the most efficient way to get there (for PvPers), takes too many players out of the WAR world. Making PQ's and open RvR almost impossible in the first tiers.

Add to that way too many servers to chose from and you get a stale game.

Yes WAR is all about PvP. Problem is its PvP isn't really any good...

No risk vs reward. Shady mechanics.

I mean. If I wanted to play an BG-centered themepark game, why would I play WAR if I can for example play Guild Wars instead?
There's no comparison in the quality of PvP here.

Hmm, maybe some people think being able to play an Elf or an Orc is more important than well-done mechanics...

Originally posted by Pangaea

Ok.. lets make one thing clear. Every MMO is goign to have a grind at some point.

UO had skills you had to grind, Everquest had levels, EQ2, FFXI, Asherons call,  WOW, everything has a grind in it to some degree cause its the simplest way to reward work and progression.

The thing with War is.. I noticed is .. it not only becomes GRINDY it doen'st have a wide selection of Grind.

And its already stated that the masses dont' mind grinding, as long as when they get tired of it they can do something different.

Lets take the most populat Game for instance. how many things can you grind.

1. Experience/Levels (quest grinding)
2. Money (mote farming)
3. Rep Farming: you can farm up to 10 different reps with 10 different things to collect (dailys, necklaces, beads, marks, ect)
4. Honor: you can farm those BGS
5. Arena: You can farm those Arenas
6. Badges: HEROICS ALL DAY LONG.
7. LOOTS: lets start raiding 10 man +
8. Titles: Lets finish those attunement quests anyways I want that TITLE
9. Proffesion materials: SOO much crafting in this game, enchants, ore, mining, mmmm, need more hebs, potions, lets get it all....

You get the point.

WoW is a major grind.. BUT it gives players soo many different grinds they never get bored of it as quick.. and when they do .. a new ilse is released, a new dungeon comes out, a new profession or expansion hits. They are keeping that Carrot on the end of the stick at all times. and NO killing Gahzrilla will not get you that carrot.

 

Warhammer has the following grinds

1. Experience/Levels (quest grinding)
2. Money (no need for money really)
3. Rep Farming Influence Farming:  same as rep, to get better gear.
4. Honor Renown: for the RR gearz
5. Arena
6. Badges
7. Loots Not real dungeons to farm, and loots from inf and Rr would be farming that.
8. Titles: You can go look for Tome unlocks.
9. Proffesion materials proffessions aren't hammered out enough in this game to warrant farming of the mats unless you are utterly bored.

Wow has 9 ways to grind

War has 4 : And only 2 in war are actually 1/2 way fun.

 

When people are done with BGs in wow they can go get mats, honor, rep, any keep thier little grinding minds busy.

in warhammer when you are done with scenarios, and its 1 am and nothing is going on in the server you feel like you just want ot log off.

NO desire to stay.

 

This doens't apply to all of you .. but to most of you I am sure I got it right.

PS: Darkfall will be a grind too. I garantee I will see most of you standin by a practive dummy or a node, or something.. Dinging away at it to up your skill . For hours. just as they did in UO. Nothing the the last 10 years made that mechanic any better.

 

WoW's evergrind is exactly a reason I would not play it. That and it's cartoony graphics, along with it's themepark gameplay. I don't play War because it has too many elements of WoW.

Themepark games make me feel like a rat in a maze. If I want to be told what to do I would call my mother. Give me the freedom of a sandbox please.

Infact I think all these new MMOs are failing because they are all WoW formulas. I wish devs would just realize if we want a WoW style game, we will play WoW.

Will some devs grow some nads and give us the Next Gen Sandbox persistant world? or just keep taking the easy safe way and follow WoWs formula only to realize that you will not outperform WoW at what it has become so popular for.

I can tell you the simple of it.I have no real knock on the game,heck for people who like the way it is done,it may very well be a good game.

The reason it loses out on subs like me for example is because of 4 things.

I enjoy crafting,WAR is not about crafting.

I enjoy PVE and hate PVP WAR is mainly about PVP

WAR is about RVR ,something  i have no interest in.

Last of all it was there early pre game videos and i watched lots of them.I found the devs themselves in the videos acted extremely immature,and the fans seemed to applaud them for it.This told me that the player base would be immature like the WOW player base was.I simply cannot handle childish chat in a game and should not have to turn it off to fix the problem.

So you can see that if a game wants to have lots of subs it needs to meet the demands of many people not a select few.No matter what gripes i have about Blizzard and the way they operate ,you and i have to  admit they meet most every criteria to appease a much wider audience.

Originally posted by Shohadaku

  

 

WoW's evergrind is exactly a reason I would not play it. That and it's cartoony graphics, along with it's themepark gameplay. I don't play War because it has too many elements of WoW.

Themepark games make me feel like a rat in a maze. If I want to be told what to do I would call my mother. Give me the freedom of a sandbox please.

Infact I think all these new MMOs are failing because they are all WoW formulas. I wish devs would just realize if we want a WoW style game, we will play WoW.

Will some devs grow some nads and give us the Next Gen Sandbox persistant world? or just keep taking the easy safe way and follow WoWs formula only to realize that you will not outperform WoW at what it has become so popular for.

A BIG Amen to that bro

It may seem like you can do a lot in this game without a guild, but to be honest, you really really need a good active guild to see all the content inthis game and experience it for what it is worth.

I have a Destruction player on Avelorn trying to find the perfect guild.  Most of the guilds are just dead or focus on one thing (because they don't konw what else there is).  I wander about, and about every other time I log in I hear about a keep seige taking place that I can join.  I get a little bit of aciton then I go to scenerios.

Now on Chaos Waste I have an Order characte in a an awesome, all dwarven, guild.  These guys are doing all sorts of stuff, from running instances, PQs, keep sieges, scenerios, and objective runs.  They do stuff in all the tiers, and everytime I log in, there is something outside of scenerios I can do.

Just like in AoC, the guild really makes this game.  If you're not in a good guild, you're going to miss out on a lot of the ORvR going on.

WAR's big mistakes were making scnerios too important and making Tier 2 & 3 keeps too hard to take.  A PuG group has no chance in hell to take a keep in this game.  A guild group in tier 2 and 3 have a hard time if there are any defenders at all.

Originally posted by Shohadaku

WoW's evergrind is exactly a reason I would not play it. That and it's cartoony graphics, along with it's themepark gameplay. I don't play War because it has too many elements of WoW.

Themepark games make me feel like a rat in a maze. If I want to be told what to do I would call my mother. Give me the freedom of a sandbox please.

Infact I think all these new MMOs are failing because they are all WoW formulas. I wish devs would just realize if we want a WoW style game, we will play WoW.

Will some devs grow some nads and give us the Next Gen Sandbox persistant world? or just keep taking the easy safe way and follow WoWs formula only to realize that you will not outperform WoW at what it has become so popular for.

QFT. The red highlights are for emphasis. We need more sandboxes... not wow / eq copies. Don't they know if we wanted that we could just go to wow?

Originally posted by expertphp

WAR is nothing ! Is a down grade version of WoW !

This is a comparation in my opinion because i play both games:

Graphic: WAR 4/10  |  WoW 7/10

WAR is still using low-quality textures. WoW looks like a cartoon.

Classes: WAR 4/10  |  WoW 10/10

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

Combat: 3/10  |  WoW 8/10

THEY'RE THE GOD DAMN SAME FUCK YOU.

Lore: 3/10  |  WoW 8/10

GAMES WORKSHOP HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 1975. DON'T YOU KNOW SHIT?!

Quests: 2/10  |  WoW 9/10

MATTER OF YOUR OWN OPINION

This has to be a troll post. It just has to be.

I can't believe I'm actually feeling rage towards text and the person behind the text, but dear god.

Originally posted by Drcube

Originally posted by expertphp

WAR is nothing ! Is a down grade version of WoW !

This is a comparation in my opinion because i play both games:

Graphic: WAR 4/10  |  WoW 7/10

WAR is still using low-quality textures. WoW looks like a cartoon.

Classes: WAR 4/10  |  WoW 10/10

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

Combat: 3/10  |  WoW 8/10

THEY'RE THE GOD DAMN SAME FUCK YOU.

Lore: 3/10  |  WoW 8/10

GAMES WORKSHOP HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 1975. DON'T YOU KNOW SHIT?!

Quests: 2/10  |  WoW 9/10

MATTER OF YOUR OWN OPINION

 

This has to be a troll post. It just has to be.

 

I can't believe I'm actually feeling rage towards text and the person behind the text, but dear god.

Actually my ratings of War would be even less:
 

graphics in WAR lack the art of Wow: so 3/10 for War against 9/10 of Wow. Art beats pixels every time.

classes in War lack the open ended choices of Wow classes (tank/dps/healer all rolled up in one class like a druid): so War 4/10, Wow 9/10 as 51 talent points are huge in Wow.

combat in War is stiff and far too slow, Wow has about the best tactical fighting combat in the MMORPG world, so that would be 3/10 for War and 9.5/10 for Wow

Warhammer miniature Lore is complete absent in War: Not even a decent Empire class present and one (!) Orc for a game where standard Army identities are the most important thing in Warhammer TT?

War could be renamed anything EXCEPT Warhammer , because it is a laugh as Warhammer TT Lore. So Warhammer TT Lore 2/10 and Wow 8/10.

Quests? War 3/10 (just for the effort of the not well implemented PQ but otherwise the lack of PVE mobs intelligence, the boring quests wouldn't be worth a 3. Wow has more options because it is full 3D (Air, land, sea, professions, daily quests, etc) so 9/10 while not even talking of the exellent Raid content in Wow.

So compare and now ask why Wow has 11 million subs and War will have 150 K subs in 3 months time ?

The aswer is right above....

Oh btw if you don't believe it'll fall that low. Just watch the Xfire stats in the next 3 weeks.... It will fall under LOTRO by a wide margin in the next 3 months.

The thing is there is no reason to play WAR over WOW.  WOW pretty much has everything WAR has, and the small amount of things it doesn't are being added in the expansion next week.  WAR also has dreadful, grindy and dull PVE.

Also animations are buggy (e.g. you still swing your weapon while knocked down, even though it has no effect, people appearing mounted when they arn't etc.) which means it's hard to see whats going on when theres lots of fighting on screen, you don't get this problem in wow.

I really don't think warhammer works as an MMO, they should have made it purely a pvp combat game with no PVE grinding, just one huge battlefield with places to raid/capture which gain you ranks etc (similar to planetside)

Makes me lol so hard when someone compares WoW's graphics to WAR's. One of my pet hates in WoW was the visual style, ugly graphics aimed at attracting the teeangers/children (bright colours/ bouncy models) made me feel like I was playing a disney game. The graphics were ugly when the game first launched and if you've played any of todays games, they're even more hideous now.

War has a visual style aimed more towards adults, still a little cartoony but much more gritty and sinister. Much higher polygon count and classes that you can distinguish endgame. Character models may move a little choppy at times but you get used to it and it keeps the framerate stable in keep seiges.

Originally posted by Mampi

Makes me lol so hard when someone compares WoW's graphics to WAR's. One of my pet hates in WoW was the visual style, ugly graphics aimed at attracting the teeangers/children (bright colours/ bouncy models) made me feel like I was playing a disney game. The graphics were ugly when the game first launched and if you've played any of todays games, they're even more hideous now.

War has a visual style aimed more towards adults, still a little cartoony but much more gritty and sinister. Much higher polygon count and classes that you can distinguish endgame. Character models may move a little choppy at times but you get used to it and it keeps the framerate stable in keep seiges.

Well visual style is visual style, but you can't ignore the fact Wow has a better consistent art form. Which of course has nothing to do with pixels.

The red in your text shows why most Wow players are glad to return to their game, because once you compare - in game - you can see which game has the the fluid combat and which game has the choppy one. Your own words...

And video games are still being played as video games not "as choppy (you will be used to eventually) slide shows".

Before I start, I want to point out that these are personal statements and I'm not attempting to say what Mythic have done wrong. Whats right or wrong for me differes for others.

I don't dislike WAR but I feel there is something missing. As WoW is used liberally in this thread I may as well use it as a comparison. When I started WoW nearly 4 years ago, if I wasn't working or sleeping I was playing WoW. With WAR, it's a case of play for an hour and then go watch tv, or read a book, yes... I actually read a book since I started palying WAR!! I haven't had time to do that for years...

It took me a while to find a class in WAR, I tried most, got an Eng and WH to 18 before I switched to a DoK and found a class that I liked, although I'm not happy with the healing mechanic, HoTs just don't do it when you got a tank being beaten on by 3 or 4 dps. The classes are not quite right, don't know whats wrong and as I'm not a game designer I'm not going to speculate what needs to be done.

Scenarios are just a zerg fest of run in, die, rinse, repeat... no tactics at all. oRvR is non-existent or just PvE capturing of a keep. Where's no mass open field battles thats are war (not WAR)...

No point bringing crafting into the discussion...

As an MMO. it lacks, I'm pretty sure it will get better and I'll probably come back but for the moment it's not holding my attention enough for me to stay... maybe I need somethign thats not fantasy in my MMO.