Ok.. lets make one thing clear. Every MMO is goign to have a grind at some point.

UO had skills you had to grind, Everquest had levels, EQ2, FFXI, Asherons call,  WOW, everything has a grind in it to some degree cause its the simplest way to reward work and progression.

The thing with War is.. I noticed is .. it not only becomes GRINDY it doen'st have a wide selection of Grind.

And its already stated that the masses dont' mind grinding, as long as when they get tired of it they can do something different.

Lets take the most populat Game for instance. how many things can you grind.

1. Experience/Levels (quest grinding)
2. Money (mote farming)
3. Rep Farming: you can farm up to 10 different reps with 10 different things to collect (dailys, necklaces, beads, marks, ect)
4. Honor: you can farm those BGS
5. Arena: You can farm those Arenas
6. Badges: HEROICS ALL DAY LONG.
7. LOOTS: lets start raiding 10 man +
8. Titles: Lets finish those attunement quests anyways I want that TITLE
9. Proffesion materials: SOO much crafting in this game, enchants, ore, mining, mmmm, need more hebs, potions, lets get it all....

You get the point.

WoW is a major grind.. BUT it gives players soo many different grinds they never get bored of it as quick.. and when they do .. a new ilse is released, a new dungeon comes out, a new profession or expansion hits. They are keeping that Carrot on the end of the stick at all times. and NO killing Gahzrilla will not get you that carrot.

Warhammer has the following grinds

1. Experience/Levels (quest grinding)
2. Money (no need for money really)
3. Rep Farming Influence Farming:  same as rep, to get better gear.
4. Honor Renown: for the RR gearz
5. Arena
6. Badges
7. Loots Not real dungeons to farm, and loots from inf and Rr would be farming that.
8. Titles: You can go look for Tome unlocks.
9. Proffesion materials proffessions aren't hammered out enough in this game to warrant farming of the mats unless you are utterly bored.

Wow has 9 ways to grind

War has 4 : And only 2 in war are actually 1/2 way fun.

When people are done with BGs in wow they can go get mats, honor, rep, any keep thier little grinding minds busy.

in warhammer when you are done with scenarios, and its 1 am and nothing is going on in the server you feel like you just want ot log off.

NO desire to stay.

This doens't apply to all of you .. but to most of you I am sure I got it right.

PS: Darkfall will be a grind too. I garantee I will see most of you standin by a practive dummy or a node, or something.. Dinging away at it to up your skill . For hours. just as they did in UO. Nothing the the last 10 years made that mechanic any better.

Bah.  WAR is PvP.  Arguably the BEST PvP of any MMO to date.

The rest really doesn't matter.  Get to max level ASAP (every MMO player understands that!) then is PvP, baby!  

It's ALL about PvP! :)

Originally posted by Lizante

Bah.  WAR is PvP.  Arguably the BEST PvP of any MMO to date.

The rest really doesn't matter.  Get to max level ASAP (every MMO player understands that!) then is PvP, baby!  

It's ALL about PvP! :)

I'm afraid I can't completely agree with you. Just like you I feel the game is all about PVP. Sadly though I find it to be zero consequence, zero reward, and zero long term playability PVP. Add to the fact it is so very "paper, rock, scissors" PVP where gaming skill is far less important then what opponent you happen to be facing, and I find myself very quickly becoming one sad and bored panda.

PVP centered game is just for the niche crowd who like that sort of thing.

1. Pve lacks big time. Too easy and PQs are nothing more than killing a mass of mobs for a chance at loot. No depth to the pve, the lore of the game is poorly told and the loot is nothing to brag about.

2. Faction imbalance is a major problem especially when your game is centered around RVR. Open RVR  is almost non-existant now because of this. Destruction is clearly the dominate faction which steamrolls over Order almost all the time.

When I played I wasn't expecting a WOW type game but clearly there is no creativity, the classes are done poorly as well as the combat. This game has clearly been way overhyped. Perhaps someday I will return but they really need to do alot of fixing before I even consider coming back to try it.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

PVP centered game is just for the niche crowd who like that sort of thing.

1. Pve lacks big time. Too easy and PQs are nothing more than killing a mass of mobs for a chance at loot. No depth to the pve, the lore of the game is poorly told and the loot is nothing to brag about.

2. Faction imbalance is a major problem especially when your game is centered around RVR. Open RVR  is almost non-existant now because of this. Destruction is clearly the dominate faction which steamrolls over Order almost all the time.

When I played I wasn't expecting a WOW type game but clearly there is no creativity, the classes are done poorly as well as the combat. This game has clearly been way overhyped. Perhaps someday I will return but they really need to do alot of fixing before I even consider coming back to try it.

Yes your right, WAR is a PvP game for a PvP crowd.

1) The lore is presented very well through the PvE quests and the style in which they built it.  If you have honestly read every block of text for every quest, you wouldn't be saying this.  Playing my DoK... I picked up so much on the dynamics of the dark elf society, their Houses and hatred.  Read... thats where the lore is.

2) ORvR is not "non-existant" and if you feel that way your not looking to trying hard enough.  Its not hard to pull together a band of people to go out and start something.  Soon enough people come to fight back.  Just this night I was in a massive battle (one of many) in T2 mind you.  Minimum of a full warband one both sides.  It was fun, though I had my ass handed to me.

The classes are not poorly done, but they would feel that way if you were used to your sterotypical classes.  They made classes interesting and unique, they function differently and have a different feel.  The game was not overhyped, at least not by the company itself.  They made no references to it being the "steak" of MMO's.  Everything on the box was delivered.

They have alot yet to tweak and adjust, but sometimes I get a feeling people just like to bitch because they can, not because they need to.

Originally posted by Lizante

Bah.  WAR is PvP.  Arguably the BEST PvP of any MMO to date.

The rest really doesn't matter.  Get to max level ASAP (every MMO player understands that!) then is PvP, baby!  

It's ALL about PvP! :)

Both Guildwars and DAOC have better PvP. Guildwars in the 1v1 PvP (or any smaller group PvP), it is fast paced, fun, well balanced, and skill is the only important thing to win.

DAOC in the massive area, it really matters there if you take something. 3 factions also get's a lot more intresting balance.

Left is the scenarios but to be honest an FPS is as fun in the long run.

WAR isn't a bad game but it isn't currently even at half it's potential, the RvR must really be better. Also Mythic needs more balancing and "flow" in the battles. And they need to cut out the sceanrios or at least make so they are a lot less easy to grind your way to the top with.

WAR is all about PvP but they really need to get the battles going a lot more, it is the games strongest point. More things like keeps around that really will give a big bonus to the players holding them,

I agree with the Op but from a  slightly different perspective, only because im getting burned out by fantasy mmo's in general.

Yes scenario grinding and influnce grinding is getting repetative and boring.

I dont grind for crafting because to me it isnt worth the time. The crafting is horrible in this game.

this is just my opinion only.

Warhammer has the following grinds

1. Experience/Levels (quest grinding)

WAR definetly has this with not only 40 rank lvls but also renown ranks to grind.

2. Money (no need for money really).

Man are you ever wrong here.  Everything in WAR costs money, crafting ingredients, gear ( renown or vendor - both cost money ), mounts but it's all not too bad.  The first money sink that has been here since the start is the cost of owning a keep.  The cost of owning a keep is gigantic !  and the benefits of having one are too many to count.  Infact it's so expensive that our entire guild only has enough money now to hold one for two days.

3. Rep Farming Influence Farming: same as rep, to get better gear.

What do you think renown farming and influence is ?  If you are going to spend all this time typing these things think them thru before you type them.  "Rep & Influence"  or "Renown & Influence"  same thing different name.  The big difference is that WAR offers fantastic public quests to do it in.  Give me a public quest over endless mob killing any day.

4. Honor Renown: for the RR gearz

This is no different then #3, I think you started to run out of ideas right about here.

5. Arena

Scenarios.  Check the official page for guild / player rankings and results.  Jesus did you play this game at all ?

6. Badges

You don't think there are badges in WAR ?  You could not be more wrong.  The difference is that in WAR you get things that you can actually wear on your armor, things that you can show to everyone and everyone knows that they mean something.  Skulls on your armor, enemy heads hanging from your shoulder pads, medals, etc.. etc.. there is 100's.  After this one I was SURE that you never ever played WAR even in beta. 

7. Loots Not real dungeons to farm, and loots from inf and Rr would be farming that.

You are clueless and reading what you write causes me physical pain.  Unlike WOW , Warhammer already has two big dungeons ( by big I mean HUGE ).  Unlike in WOW where I had to wait ages for the Molten Core to even come out WAR has these things allready in the game.  Gundam is great fun and Bastion is amazing.

8. Titles: You can go look for Tome unlocks.

OK, at least we agree on something ;)

9. Proffesion materials proffessions aren't hammered out enough in this game to warrant farming of the mats unless you are utterly bored.
 

I had to think about this one allot but sure, I agree with you.  I get alot of godo crafting drops all the time and with scavanging there is even more.

in warhammer when you are done with scenarios, and its 1 am and nothing is going on in the server you feel like you just want ot log off.

In Warhammer when there is no scenarios ( battlegrounds ) you have tons of public quests where you can work on a common goal with other people without even having to ask for groups.  There is more but let's stay with this one.

Well, there you go, some comments from someone who is actually playing the game and knows something about it.  Playing for couple of times during your free 30 days and being bored 'couse all your friends from school are playing wow hardly makes for an interesting read.  Let me mention few more things that I think are worth talking about when you are talking about WAR :

1. Public Quests are awensome, even if you are doing them alone and all you can do is part 1 it;s still far superior to just grinding mobs in WOW.

2. WAR is by far more stable game then WOW, it took WOW over a year of patching to get to where WAR was at launch.  Even if the few issues it has for some select people.

3. Clasess in WAR are so much cooler then most in WOW.  This is something really big that many people don't talk about - each class in WAR has a very different mechanic and you really feel different when playing each one.  It's a HUGE difference in how they approached differences in clasess.

There is so much more to this game that I just can't mention now 'couse I have to go to work in 5 hours.  But this is a good start I think.

Originally posted by Pangaea

Ok.. lets make one thing clear. Every MMO is goign to have a grind at some point.

UO had skills you had to grind, Everquest had levels, EQ2, FFXI, Asherons call,  WOW, everything has a grind in it to some degree cause its the simplest way to reward work and progression.

The thing with War is.. I noticed is .. it not only becomes GRINDY it doen'st have a wide selection of Grind.

And its already stated that the masses dont' mind grinding, as long as when they get tired of it they can do something different.

Lets take the most populat Game for instance. how many things can you grind.

1. Experience/Levels (quest grinding)
2. Money (mote farming)
3. Rep Farming: you can farm up to 10 different reps with 10 different things to collect (dailys, necklaces, beads, marks, ect)
4. Honor: you can farm those BGS
5. Arena: You can farm those Arenas
6. Badges: HEROICS ALL DAY LONG.
7. LOOTS: lets start raiding 10 man +
8. Titles: Lets finish those attunement quests anyways I want that TITLE
9. Proffesion materials: SOO much crafting in this game, enchants, ore, mining, mmmm, need more hebs, potions, lets get it all....

You get the point.

WoW is a major grind.. BUT it gives players soo many different grinds they never get bored of it as quick.. and when they do .. a new ilse is released, a new dungeon comes out, a new profession or expansion hits. They are keeping that Carrot on the end of the stick at all times. and NO killing Gahzrilla will not get you that carrot.

 

Warhammer has the following grinds

1. Experience/Levels (quest grinding)
2. Money (no need for money really)
3. Rep Farming Influence Farming:  same as rep, to get better gear.
4. Honor Renown: for the RR gearz
5. Arena
6. Badges
7. Loots Not real dungeons to farm, and loots from inf and Rr would be farming that.
8. Titles: You can go look for Tome unlocks.
9. Proffesion materials proffessions aren't hammered out enough in this game to warrant farming of the mats unless you are utterly bored.

Wow has 9 ways to grind

War has 4 : And only 2 in war are actually 1/2 way fun.

 

When people are done with BGs in wow they can go get mats, honor, rep, any keep thier little grinding minds busy.

in warhammer when you are done with scenarios, and its 1 am and nothing is going on in the server you feel like you just want ot log off.

NO desire to stay.

 

This doens't apply to all of you .. but to most of you I am sure I got it right.

PS: Darkfall will be a grind too. I garantee I will see most of you standin by a practive dummy or a node, or something.. Dinging away at it to up your skill . For hours. just as they did in UO. Nothing the the last 10 years made that mechanic any better.

 

While I agree with many things the OP says, I think the game just needs to add more content and polish to keep attracting players.  Also the list of grinds isn't 100% accurate.

2. Money is extremely important simple because of keep cost.  It cost a lot of money to hold onto keeps, and keeps give you a ton of guild experience.

6. There are no "badges" per say, but there are random dropped items which contribute to the creation of unique items.  These are random drops in scenarios.  Its similar to completing dark moon faire decks in wow.

7. People are done with bastion stairs and are raiding lost vale where the epic loot is dropping.  Read the pve forum on warhammeralliance and you'll see the raiders discussing strats and loot drops.  Raiding is there.

8. While crafting in this game is nothing to brag about, having maxed out your profession is definitely a huge bonus. Take talisman crafting for instance, you are able to get +15 gems.  That's HUGE.

While I recently quit the game for my own reasons, I understand that the game isn't as terribad as people make it out to be.

I didn't care much for GW's pvp tbh. WARs pvp is fast paced and easily accessible and the fact that you can level all the way to 40 (and many people do) by pvp/rvr alone means they must be doing something right.

Naturally its not going to attract as many people as some other mmo's mainly because of the system requirements (I have quite a pimped rig that still grinds to a halt with 100 people on screen) and the fact that it's pretty much a pvp exclusive game. Myself and alot of others enjoy for the fact that you can logon and achieve something in an hour rather than being forced to play everynight to get anywhere.

OP: This was an original post. I never analysed it that way.

I reckognized the reason(s) I still play "the game" after all these years. Gtz to you. I would like to add that if you love something to do, you can hardly speak of 'grind" (arena's and BG's for me).

Good analysis. Now add the fact I didn't like the PvP pace and animations in WAR and I now understand there were several other things indeed missing...

But it also shows Wow has been polished for 4 more years and all these things weren't in the game at release.  Proof again that every new MMO is doing an impossible uphill battle now.

I think the only solution is to launch a complete different MMO and certainly NO Fantasy lores anymore! We have one already and everything (except RvR and some more open options). But knowing Blizzard, an overall  RvR strategy layer is already being developped right now for the next expansions.

War will have its player base of some 250/300K subs for some time, but indeed it is missing "long term" playing value, making the growth of the game very difficult.

I would love a post apocalyptic MMO (fallout!) but the problem with most non fantasy MMO's is the ranged weaponry.... which .. while typing it sounds like flawed logic since we have plenty of ranged dps in fantasy mmo's ... Hmmmmmmm

Problem with WAR is that it became game of scenarios.

Everything else is or empty or boring or not worth the wait and effort.

Than if you think.

Scenarios are 12 vs 12 instanced games - with handful of different maps.

Sounds like : Guild Wars ? Or perhaps Team Fortress ?

Both which have far better gameplay and are non subscription games....

So whats keeping me in WAR ?

My Dear OP, You are very wrong.

While there are many who enjoy the PVE grind (you can grind 100 kind of mushrooms in MapleStory, no need to pay for WOW).

There are many more who are interested in an RPG PVP game.

WOW, due to the fact that you need to PVE grind, does not fit our need, and we are waiting for a good new one. WAR can fit those needs once they polish it abit more.

Originally posted by redOrc

My Dear OP, You are very wrong.

While there are many who enjoy the PVE grind (you can grind 100 kind of mushrooms in MapleStory, no need to pay for WOW).

There are many more who are interested in an RPG PVP game.

WOW, due to the fact that you need to PVE grind, does not fit our need, and we are waiting for a good new one. WAR can fit those needs once they polish it abit more.

 

 

Yep, but I think the OP mentioned you need to have choices, even in PvP games. I am a 100% PvP player, but still once in a while having a distraction in a complete other field of the game is rather relaxing. Having to search for a certain profession plan for example to make a profit on the auction house was really a cool experiece after doing hundreds of arena's.

And yes I was enjoying that needed dozen of Kara Raid runs also, but that PVE raid sure couldn't get me playing Wow for years, the Arena, BG's and (limited) world PvP did.

So having choices is great. Any new MMO will not have that kind of choices, making the battle for marketshare indeed very difficult in this fantasy setting. And it will be even more difficult in the future, because having played LW in Beta, I even think the PvP circle is filled now (only waiting for RvR, but knowing Blizzard they already are developping that layer).
 

To my knoweledge WoW didnt have BG rewards till several months AFTER release..also WoW didnt have but 3-4 dungeons till several months AFTER release.

Arenas etc didnt come out till AFTER second expansion.

WAR has been out only for a month.

Maybe when you look superficially to War, there seems not much to do outside scenario's, but find yourself a good guild and explore the game. There is way more to do and to gain than your eye meets at the first sight.

Originally posted by Lizante

Bah.  WAR is PvP.  Arguably the BEST PvP of any MMO to date.

The rest really doesn't matter.  Get to max level ASAP (every MMO player understands that!) then is PvP, baby!  

It's ALL about PvP! :)

or lack there of, wheres the rvr again ?  its that away ------------------------->  oh okay , thanks !!

Originally posted by lorndarken

Originally posted by Lizante

Bah.  WAR is PvP.  Arguably the BEST PvP of any MMO to date.

The rest really doesn't matter.  Get to max level ASAP (every MMO player understands that!) then is PvP, baby!  

It's ALL about PvP! :)

 

or lack there of, wheres the rvr again ?  its that away ------------------------->  oh okay , thanks !!

Just wait till enough people reach T4 and deside they want a keep for their guild.

Originally posted by kishe

To my knoweledge WoW didnt have BG rewards till several months AFTER release..also WoW didnt have but 3-4 dungeons till several months AFTER release.

 

Arenas etc didnt come out till AFTER second expansion.

 

 

WAR has been out only for a month.

 

 

Omg! How'd I miss an entire expansion?