Originally posted by xxvicexx

I'm also sick and tired of people claiming its discrimination or in somehow violating a persons "Rights".

So you don't like hearing the truth?

Not allowing gays to marry is no different then not allowing blacks, asians, whites, or any other ethnic group to marry.  Why?  Becuase none of this is a choice, being gay is something that a person is born with, and whether you like it or not they should have just as many rights as anyone else.

Not allowing someone to marry and adopt children *is* a violation of rights.

I was surprised to see this forum come back to life after 2 months.

But I want to put in my two words. I am not against gays or gay rights or anything that has to do with being gay. I am also not a religious man what so ever.

But the act of being gay, or born gay, what ever the case may be.... Its an act against god. Its a sin, and therefore the homosexual person will not inherit the kingdom of god.  Theres quiet a few passages about this in the bible. 
 

I'm done.

It takes a long time for Human civilizations to adopt changes in their grass roots "traditions."  As western civilation adopted modernity as it's philosophical model for it's various socialogical, societal enclaves, whether they are large cities, small towns, or countries in-and-of-itself, one socialogical phenomenon can be observed by any discerning mind, that with any advent of change, or introduction to change of a current "traditional" societal rule/edict, will come some modicom of resistence at first.  This of course is almost akin to nature and and the struggle for life.  It would appear that in the U.S.A. alone this seems to be a prodominant reisistance towards homosexual lifestyles as an acceptable part of the agreed upon ethic of that society in general, but take that resistance as a good sign.  For that resistence is an obseverable proof that the forces of change are at work.  Nothing comes easy in life, progress and change with us knuckle dragging straight people, so please forgive our inabitity to rapidly change with the times.  However this change is inevitable as more and more christians like myself are seeing the obvious pain and suffering that our hatred in denying your rights as equals in a society that is based on the foundations of such a spirit of equality.

My best wishes in your struggle, and keep up the faith that change will happen, and is currently happening as a force to better us all in the long run.

I don't even see why this is an issue. They're people like you and me, who just have different partners.

As for the christians posting here. Isn't your entire religion centered on acceptance, compassion, loving thy neighbour? Then why the hangups on whether someone is or isn't a bloody homosexual? Instead of desperately looking for and interpreting any passage of the bible that might validate your fears, why not just follow the obvious message Jesus seemed to preach. You know, the big flashing neon one about not being dicks, about if someone is a good loving person then maybe they can be forgiven. Jesus seemed to be able to let that shit slide.

Keep fighting for your rights, and for acceptance in society. Each step you take makes us all better for it.

Originally posted by AsprnBtl

I don't even see why this is an issue. They're people like you and me, who just have different partners.

 

As for the christians posting here. Isn't your entire religion centered on acceptance, compassion, loving thy neighbour? Then why the hangups on whether someone is or isn't a bloody homosexual? Instead of desperately looking for and interpreting any passage of the bible that might validate your fears, why not just follow the obvious message Jesus seemed to preach. You know, the big flashing neon one about not being dicks, about if someone is a good loving person then maybe they can be forgiven. Jesus seemed to be able to let that shit slide.

 

Keep fighting for your rights, and for acceptance in society. Each step you take makes us all better for it.

I agree with you, well said.

As a Christian myself I've been taught to love our neighbors and enemies.  What that means to me is that love is all emcompassing and hence unconditional.  With that said, then why do we Christians continue w/ the rhetoric of hatred and preaching inequality and bigotry is right?  I must say I am very much ashamed to call myself Christian when I see to be a VERY small minority of Chrisitian who see's the obvious hypocracy of Love that we teach through indoctrinating our children, as well as the Hate that we create by saying it's okay to deny anyone else equal rights.  The bottom line is the obvious hypocracy that most of my fellow Christian refuse to see in themselves!  It almost angers me, as Jesus was angered at the Scribes and the Pharases of their Roman Empire's times for a very similar hypocracy.  Did not Jesus befriend all save the hypocritical scribes and pharases, and dogmatics of their age and time? 
 

Let me state here and now, I am a straight, Christian, and am proud to see my own teachings conflict w/ the hypocracy of hate taught by my fellow Christians, and I voted in favor of Gay Marriage.  Why, equal love for equal rights... because it's the right, and civilized way to respect ourselves as not just "gay" or "straight" but as human beings.

this is a tough topic to discuss, so i wont.

Originally posted by AsprnBtl

I don't even see why this is an issue. They're people like you and me, who just have different partners.

 

As for the christians posting here. Isn't your entire religion centered on acceptance, compassion, loving thy neighbour? Then why the hangups on whether someone is or isn't a bloody homosexual? Instead of desperately looking for and interpreting any passage of the bible that might validate your fears, why not just follow the obvious message Jesus seemed to preach. You know, the big flashing neon one about not being dicks, about if someone is a good loving person then maybe they can be forgiven. Jesus seemed to be able to let that shit slide.

 

Keep fighting for your rights, and for acceptance in society. Each step you take makes us all better for it.

Church seems more concerned with homosexuals than the ever increasing number of pedophile priests who abuse children.
The church don't seems to make a big fuss about them, which is worrying.
I think the pope should fix his own house before preaching against homosexuals.

I am all in favour for gay marriage and all, except for adoption.
I don't believe that it will be fair on the child, I am not doubting that gay people can be good parents, but I don't believe is fair to the child who will be bullied at school because he/she has gay parents.
Well at least for the moment society is not ready for this.
When the time will come where gay relationships will be considered normal, then it will be ok for gays to adopt kids as well.
But not now IMO.

 

Dragging religion into this will go nowhere. The bible quite clearly got an anti-gay message. You have to be a bleeding idiot not to be able to see and read that.

I think gays and lesbians should be able to marry whoever/whenever it's just the adoption issue I got a few problems with. I really don't give a damn in their rights to adopt as it's not about them at all. It's about the children. How would a child fostered by gays/lesbians grow up and what will it experience during that time? I think the experience will be more negative than positive, conserning bullying at school, gender issues and so on.

Originally posted by slask777

Dragging religion into this will go nowhere. The bible quite clearly got an anti-gay message. You have to be a bleeding idiot not to be able to see and read that.

I think gays and lesbians should be able to marry whoever/whenever it's just the adoption issue I got a few problems with. I really don't give a damn in their rights to adopt as it's not about them at all. It's about the children. How would a child fostered by gays/lesbians grow up and what will it experience during that time? I think the experience will be more negative than positive, conserning bullying at school, gender issues and so on.

Research shows that gay parents are just as capable parents as straigth parents

I quote:
"The American Academy of Pediatrics has confirmed that "[a] growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with 1 or 2 gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual." American Academy of Pediatrics, Technical Report: Coparent or Second-Parent Adoption by Same-Sex Parents, 109 Pediatrics 341 (Feb. 2002). "Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents."

I'm sorry, but bullying at school? What kind of argument is that? I worked as a volunteer at an elementry school (or primary scool, depending on where you live) and kids will find any excuse to bully and tease each other. Heck, we can take this a step beyond just gay adoption if we start taking bullying into consideration? "Sorry miss, but we found out your husband happens to be a janitor and we don't want to risk that the child might possibly be teased at school"

Originally posted by Man1ac

If some people wanna be gay let em, but I know genes influence ones sexuality but there are other factors too.

Pretty sure thats still never been proven.

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Man1ac

If some people wanna be gay let em, but I know genes influence ones sexuality but there are other factors too.

 

Pretty sure thats still never been proven.

It is still the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community.

I'm pretty sure they have done a little bit more research on this subject than you have.

Originally posted by AsprnBtl

I don't even see why this is an issue. They're people like you and me, who just have different partners.

 

As for the christians posting here. Isn't your entire religion centered on acceptance, compassion, loving thy neighbour? Then why the hangups on whether someone is or isn't a bloody homosexual? Instead of desperately looking for and interpreting any passage of the bible that might validate your fears, why not just follow the obvious message Jesus seemed to preach. You know, the big flashing neon one about not being dicks, about if someone is a good loving person then maybe they can be forgiven. Jesus seemed to be able to let that shit slide.

 

Keep fighting for your rights, and for acceptance in society. Each step you take makes us all better for it.

*sigh* you know out of 1.2 billion Christans in the world I don't think as many as you think take that stance. I have never been to a church that is so worried about who is homosexual or not and that is in Texas. This is like when people say all Muslims are crazy running around with bombs on....but on wait........its bad to call them all that, but we can lump all Christans together.
 

 Im all for letting them have civil unions and having equal rights of heterosexual couples. But Im am not for having the gov't force religions to perform a religious marriage when it is clearly aganist that religions laws. That would be over stepping what the govt can do and so shouldn't happen anyways.

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by AsprnBtl

I don't even see why this is an issue. They're people like you and me, who just have different partners.

 

As for the christians posting here. Isn't your entire religion centered on acceptance, compassion, loving thy neighbour? Then why the hangups on whether someone is or isn't a bloody homosexual? Instead of desperately looking for and interpreting any passage of the bible that might validate your fears, why not just follow the obvious message Jesus seemed to preach. You know, the big flashing neon one about not being dicks, about if someone is a good loving person then maybe they can be forgiven. Jesus seemed to be able to let that shit slide.

 

Keep fighting for your rights, and for acceptance in society. Each step you take makes us all better for it.

 

Yes love the sinner hate the sin. Im all for letting them have civil unions and having equal rights of heterosexual couples. But Im am not for having the gov't force religions to perform a religious marriage when it is clearly aganist that religions laws. That would be over stepping what the govt can do and so shouldn't happen anyways.

A homsexual couple should be able to have a religious wedding if the particular church is in agreement with this.

Originally posted by eagles12555

this is a tough topic to discuss, so i wont.

 

 

I hear that! If you don't agree with gay marriage you are a bigot. doesn't matter that you disagree with polygamy and such also. I do know Muslims in Spain and Europe have no conflicts about gay marriage, and they are the growing demographic there. You will miss your Christians there.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Man1ac

If some people wanna be gay let em, but I know genes influence ones sexuality but there are other factors too.

 

Pretty sure thats still never been proven.

 

It is still the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community.

I'm pretty sure they have done a little bit more research on this subject than you have.

Research doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by AsprnBtl

I don't even see why this is an issue. They're people like you and me, who just have different partners.

 

As for the christians posting here. Isn't your entire religion centered on acceptance, compassion, loving thy neighbour? Then why the hangups on whether someone is or isn't a bloody homosexual? Instead of desperately looking for and interpreting any passage of the bible that might validate your fears, why not just follow the obvious message Jesus seemed to preach. You know, the big flashing neon one about not being dicks, about if someone is a good loving person then maybe they can be forgiven. Jesus seemed to be able to let that shit slide.

 

Keep fighting for your rights, and for acceptance in society. Each step you take makes us all better for it.

 

Yes love the sinner hate the sin. Im all for letting them have civil unions and having equal rights of heterosexual couples. But Im am not for having the gov't force religions to perform a religious marriage when it is clearly aganist that religions laws. That would be over stepping what the govt can do and so shouldn't happen anyways.

 

A homsexual couple should be able to have a religious wedding if the particular church is in agreement with this.

Well yeah....but a church saying ok is different then the gov't saying you have no choice.

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Man1ac

If some people wanna be gay let em, but I know genes influence ones sexuality but there are other factors too.

 

Pretty sure thats still never been proven.

 

It is still the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community.

I'm pretty sure they have done a little bit more research on this subject than you have.

 

Research doesn't make it true.

When  the vast majority of the scientific community thinks this is the way it happened, it's safe to say that is how it happened. It's clearly a much more reliable source than religious faith, that's for sure.
 

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Man1ac

If some people wanna be gay let em, but I know genes influence ones sexuality but there are other factors too.

 

Pretty sure thats still never been proven.

 

It is still the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community.

I'm pretty sure they have done a little bit more research on this subject than you have.

 

Research doesn't make it true.

When  the vast majority of the scientific community thinks this is the way it happened, it's safe to say that is how it happened. It's clearly a much more reliable source than religious faith, that's for sure.
 

World use to think the world was flat, that the Earth was the center of the universe, and other misconeptions that were later proved false with science. Untill they can prove there is a gene then it doesn't matter that they "think" there is one. And how is it a religious faith? Doesn't say in the bible that there is no gay gene.

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by AsprnBtl

I don't even see why this is an issue. They're people like you and me, who just have different partners.

 

As for the christians posting here. Isn't your entire religion centered on acceptance, compassion, loving thy neighbour? Then why the hangups on whether someone is or isn't a bloody homosexual? Instead of desperately looking for and interpreting any passage of the bible that might validate your fears, why not just follow the obvious message Jesus seemed to preach. You know, the big flashing neon one about not being dicks, about if someone is a good loving person then maybe they can be forgiven. Jesus seemed to be able to let that shit slide.

 

Keep fighting for your rights, and for acceptance in society. Each step you take makes us all better for it.

 

*sigh* you know out of 1.2 billion Christans in the world I don't think as many as you think take that stance. I have never been to a church that is so worried about who is homosexual or not and that is in Texas. This is like when people say all Muslims are crazy running around with bombs on....but on wait........its bad to call them all that, but we can lump all Christans together.
 

 Im all for letting them have civil unions and having equal rights of heterosexual couples. But Im am not for having the gov't force religions to perform a religious marriage when it is clearly aganist that religions laws. That would be over stepping what the govt can do and so shouldn't happen anyways.

Not to be rude, but I didn't lump all Christians together, or even close to that. I was addressing those in the thread, who were using religious beliefs to justify discrimination.

Originally posted by slask777

Dragging religion into this will go nowhere. The bible quite clearly got an anti-gay message. You have to be a bleeding idiot not to be able to see and read that.

...

It also has an even louder, clearer message about tolerance, acceptance, and forgiveness. My question is why some choose to ignore that?