Originally posted by originalegg

This is a fun game though...making up facts to make your argument sound better in your head.  Im going to be the president in 2012...that not opinion...its a FACT!

That's what you do all the time. And what 90% of the people who have followed this have been doing for the last 7 years.

Until this launches and makes a PROFIT it's a failure. This is a fact.

and YES -- this is still 100% Vaporware. Until it launches commercially and you can login to it after paying for your account ---  it remains vaporware.

Ah well, when I don't agree with the haters apparently I am making up numbers yet I got these numbers out of interviews, reports and Wiki, not from my arse like some of the Nay-sayers lol.

In the end deny as much as you want there is a community out there for DF as long as it does a decent job. Decent meaning better than AoC, Vanguard and others. It's the same sized community that has followed any of these style of games that did a decent job. With out the massive advertising you see with many of the MMO's today DarkFall has managed to get 160k on the official forums that know about the game but it doesn't stop there, DF is talked about on many forums and in many places. Those that aren't fans tend to say either the game is pure fail or that they would try it out if it ever launched.  I mean many in the gamming community know about it, it's kind of hard to deny that. It's been talked about on the AoC forums, War forums, WoW forums, UO Forums, EQ2 Forums, DnL forums, General forums and many other places.

Some of you want to keep doing a few things that just isn't logical.

1) You seem to want people to believe that no ones heard of DarkFall. Oddly enough it's being discussed everywhere, the more info that comes out the more discussions that pop up. The more likely it is to launch the more that come and sign up on the official forums.

2) You seem to want to convience people there just isn't a community out there for this type of MMO, and if there is one it will only be a hand full of players. Granted it is a niche, but that community is out there guys sorry and it's not the hand full of people you try to make it out to be.

Call the numbers I posted regarding different games made up if you want, I mean what your saying is those interviews, reports and the info on the Wiki are made up. Which is fine thats your opinion, but quit trying to make it sound like I am pulling numbers out of my arse, I did my research as you might want to try.

Someone I think said L2 doesn't count cause it's Korean..... I just wanted to point out that gamers are gamers man, hell Asians were a large part of the UO community atleast towards the end. You really and truely think EA would keep UO up and running and still make expantions for it if it only had a handful of NA and EU players.

Bottom line is as long as the game is Decent there is a community waiting for it. Some have already jumped on bored some are waiting to see how things go because they fell once bitten, twice shy.

And to the comment Lichking has PvP comming......... your kidding right? Omg I am going to quit following DarkFall and go order Lichking right now, omg omg omg, why didn't someone tell me sooner..... ah wait.... I don't like WoW in the first place so never mind. I mean what you are calling PvP looks more like Carebears with Nerf Bats to me. But that is just me, I am actually glad WoW is doing more PvP wise. Might get more people interested in PvP then they may be willing to look for a real game with real PvP.

Sorry WoW just seems to easy to me, I mean if William Shatner can play WoW then there just isn't much challenge lol.

bro wiki is not a credible source but ok. Anyways this game will be a failure in my eyes untill its at least released if it ever gets to that point ill be impressed mainly because its been in developement for over 7 years with little to no word on whats going on. Get used to it.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Sorry WoW just seems to easy to me, I mean if William Shatner can play WoW then there just isn't much challenge lol.

Easy sells and makes money.

Hard and challenging doesn't.

People want to have fun when they play games. Not be griefed and lose all their stuff.

So in reality -- they basically built this game to NOT make any money.  They designed it around old ideas like AC1 Darktide which had the lowest population of all the servers with only a few hundred people on at peak times..

They basically built a game to attract the least amount of people to it. lol

They have the business sense of goats. Which is one more reasion why it's going to fail.

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Sorry WoW just seems to easy to me, I mean if William Shatner can play WoW then there just isn't much challenge lol.

Easy sells and makes money.

Hard and challenging doesn't.

People want to have fun when they play games. Not be griefed and lose all their stuff.

So in reality -- they basically built this game to NOT make any money.  They designed it around old ideas like AC1 Darktide which had the lowest population of all the servers with only a few hundred people on at peak times..

They basically built a game to attract the least amount of people to it. lol

They have the business sense of goats. Which is one more reasion why it's going to fail.

I can agree with your "Easy" and "Hard" remarks. Those are an unfortunate truth because the "gaming age" audience companies believe is their target audience is Generation Instant Gratification/Short Attention Span(X). That's just the way it is.

As for the "old ideas" comment, I agree with your specific comment, in so much that Darktide was a bad example to mold a game, but I disagree in that AC (regular servers) would be a great pattern to build upon for a new MMO. AC did quite well in its day and a game taking its principles would do well today as well I think.

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Sorry WoW just seems to easy to me, I mean if William Shatner can play WoW then there just isn't much challenge lol.

Easy sells and makes money.

Hard and challenging doesn't.

So in reality -- they basically built this game to NOT make any money.  They designed it around old ideas like AC1 Darktide which had the lowest population of all the servers with only a few hundred people on at peak times..

They basically built a game to attract the least amount of people to it. lol

Actually darktide is the highest pop server now. Which means there is demand for a FFA PvP game.. just not to the tune of 250k-300k  Asheron's Call, at it's peak, had 120k people.  Now it sits at 20k subs (although I doubht 4/5ths of those people log in..)

Oh.. and the Asian market comment is more than just a "gamer is a gamer".  Asians are MORE than the typical gamer.  While america upwards of 3Million MMORPG gamers,  the asian contenents have upwards of 10million.  As a matter of fact, I'd say europe+america is 2/3rds of the the asian MMORPG player base.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

bro wiki is not a credible source but ok. Anyways this game will be a failure in my eyes untill its at least released if it ever gets to that point ill be impressed mainly because its been in developement for over 7 years with little to no word on whats going on. Get used to it.

lol honestly it doesn't matter to me what you guys believe. As ive stated before the trolls not only make easily counterd points but just add to the possible exposure of the game. Each unique hit, each fresh post and ect ect ect . The more a subject is debated the more they post and the more the inadvertantly increase exposure to DF atleast on this site lol. Other sites I don't really care what haters or trolls say and even agree with them on a lot of points. On this site however it is merely fun to debate and the mechanics behind the site allow for those debates to add more exposure to the game lol. 

I am also glad you just said the Wiki and ignored the interviews and the reports. With Wiki what I tend to do is when I see something on there I go down to the bottom and look at the source links, I follow them and actually research which many fail to do and then conclude my findings. I don't simply go well Wiki said the sky was green cause I own a ford so thats how it is. 

So don't take things so personal lol, in the end it's just a game. Fail or succeed it's just a game, not some heart transplant your waiting on XD.  

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Sorry WoW just seems to easy to me, I mean if William Shatner can play WoW then there just isn't much challenge lol.

Easy sells and makes money.

Hard and challenging doesn't.

Then please explain to me why there are levels of difficulty in something like an FPS, or many of the RTS games that are out their. There are people that measure their improvement and success by shinies, but there are also many people that measure success by skill and what they are capable of overcoming. DF appeals to this second catagory. It does sell.

Easy has been done to death, those who want a challenge (which is much more interesting and fun imo, you should try it sometime) will be flocking to DF. Why, because themepark MMOs have actually begun to force the easy solution on anyone who wants advancement. If you fight enemies that are stronger than you, you lose more than you win. In many level-based MMOs, this means a loss of the all-important Exp pts. In DF, your skill-points are unaffected by death.

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by originalegg

This is a fun game though...making up facts to make your argument sound better in your head.  Im going to be the president in 2012...that not opinion...its a FACT!

Until this launches and makes a PROFIT it's a failure. This is a fact.

 

Wrong.  If it launches and has a bad release and doesnt turn a profit, THEN it fails.

You obviously hate the idea of this game and are here to troll.

No one is actually going to agree with you, except other trolls, that a game can actually "fail" before it even is put out on the market.

And by the normal definitions of vaporware, while it may have been in the past, due to recent events, Darkfall is clearly not vaporware.

Originally posted by Random_mage

How much stuff are you going to make up to prove your point?

Lineage 2.. Asian based game.  Broke 2Mil.. Then dropped to 1.5 around the time WoW came out.  Lineage 2.. an established name.  It has promotion.   People knew what it was.

UO NEVER BROKE 250K.  ONLY FFA GAME AT THE TIME, aside from AC.  But. .keep making up numbers.

 

AoC was NOT ffa PvP.  There were safe areas and no guards. 

VG had ffa PvP.. that game hit 120k  With maybe 1/10 on the PvP servers..

 

Also.. all of the games you mentioned are either developed in america, or had a shit ton of press.  UO.. EA, AoC Funcom with promotion..

 

I'll bring Knight Online back up.  It's a medievil FFA game..  And it's an obsure title.. but again.. you'll ignore that.  Epic fail.

 

 

And WoW is popluar because it's an EASY game.  It had a following LONG before it became an MMO.  Hell, StarCraft II is a nation sport in korea... But.. of course..you folks will live in the dillusion that darkfall will be a HUGE success..

LOL.. yeah.. right.. It'll pull in numbers.. and it'll pay for itself... but it won't come out having 300k subs.. Hell.. maybe after a few years. it'll have 200k.. but.. it will be awhile.. and they'll actually have to promote it.

Nah.. take that back.. 30-40k sounds right..

 

So Starcraft 2 released early in Korea?
Cause y'know, it'd have had to to back up WoW before it's release.

EDIT: I just realized the delicious irony within your post there.

Yeah.. forgot Starcraft II hasn't been released.. but Starcraft I is a national sport.

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Darkfall at this pount IS a total failure. This is not an opinion -- it's a FACT.

Until it launches commercially and makes back every penny that was invested into it, it will always be a failure.

No.. it will never have 250k subs. EVER.

It will be VERY lucky to have even 30k subs and be able to keep them PAYING for 1 full year.

The game is obscure and unknown. It's not marketed or promoted outside of GREECE. Go take a look at what the general gaming public thinks of it's last video over at gametrailers.com. They all laughed their asses off because it was so amateurish looking.

It has a miserable amount of people following it for a MMORPG that has been around for the last 7 YEARS.  Even Dark and Light had triple the amount.

Lich King has lots of PvP in it. It's a game focused on PvP.  Who the hell is going to be left playing Darkfall after Lich King is out?

And no -- Full Loot on death is NOT going to make people want to play Darkfall. If anything, it will make even more people run away from it.  Also -- skill based is nice yes.. but it isn't anything so new and great that it will attract or pull tons of people away from other games.

Darkfall is nothing special. It's an older looking PvP sandbox game. I can go play an older looking PvP sandbox style game right now called Asheron's Call on Darktide.

Mate...

You are talking so much giving value in marketing and advertising in a game.  When you are a small developing company its kinda hard to build on this due to financial reasons. The counter attack on this though is that they focused much on gameplay mechanics, networking code that will hopefully be lagg free in reasonably   terms,  they devoted them selfs  more  in trying to make the game better  than advertising ..  What did AOC and WAR managed focusing more in advertising and less in the game they made? Apart making seriously thinking players ,with high standards of  gaming products excpectations,laugh with the meaningless and void products? AOC had seriously lack of promised and they lied about pvp system on launch full of instanced world,and WAR SEEMS more like unreal tournament and less like a solid mmo role playing world......Nothing..They got themselfs embarassed.. nothing more...

So DF has not much things to offer?

How about a huge cruel and realistic world to  A D V E N T U R E on it? ships and naval battles.. building vilages and houses .. A taste of what Ultima online have offered in 3d grafs with Oblivion like combat style system nothing new uh? What better can a player imagine  that fighting with a combat system similar to oblivion.

Skill based combat u said its nothing so new? What world of warcraft has to offer to me after i played it

3+ 1/2 y in a row?  Havent u noticed they made WOW ' s pvp easy even for the worst noobs? All an arcane  mage has to do is spam the instanst spells and deal great dmg despice the fact he's unskilled . Retris?  I used to play piano in my keyboard and do a lot of melee tricks with my hunter in order to get a 10 yards distance  to be able to use my bow ,now u can shoot with bow from 3 yards...They made the game easy to fight for the noobs ,and destroyed  the skilled fights .. That was ofc  before burning crusade .

How about RP? most other games has no rp at all simply because of the meaningless world its based on. In a world u have noting to loose  roleplay seems more like theatrical . in a cruel medieval realistic world where your life -and your gear- can be held in the hands of your companions leaves place for a stronger rp enviroment cause rp is greately enchansed by the situations you can be on ,creating stronger relations with your mates ,brother alike situations fight back to back with your guildmates against the enemies. That cant happen in wow or in the other mmo's cause simply by dying in an instance or in pvp fights u just respawn ,or loosing few fer arena rating , without having to loosing anything.. safe free hug place with happy gnomes and undead mages jumping like retards and throwing instance spells ..not for me matie.. not anymore...

IN DF u earn combats with your sword ,blood and tears and not with the clicking of a single button.. wake up.. Wow's combat system maybe fun for 12-17 y old kid but for 25+ y old players skills are the a-z tome of value.

The only thing i agree with u is that the full loting will throw away after a period some players maybe. I  can imagine that even a hardcore player may get tired after fully looted ,run to bank get gear and go back to his last location. Considering looting i ve posted in past my ideas on this with a partial looting example 1 item drops from your inventory randomly+ some money... But i guess its up to devs to consider this and i beg them to reconsider upon this for  the game's shake.

Originally posted by tazarconan

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Darkfall at this pount IS a total failure. This is not an opinion -- it's a FACT.

Until it launches commercially and makes back every penny that was invested into it, it will always be a failure.

No.. it will never have 250k subs. EVER.

It will be VERY lucky to have even 30k subs and be able to keep them PAYING for 1 full year.

The game is obscure and unknown. It's not marketed or promoted outside of GREECE. Go take a look at what the general gaming public thinks of it's last video over at gametrailers.com. They all laughed their asses off because it was so amateurish looking.

It has a miserable amount of people following it for a MMORPG that has been around for the last 7 YEARS.  Even Dark and Light had triple the amount.

Lich King has lots of PvP in it. It's a game focused on PvP.  Who the hell is going to be left playing Darkfall after Lich King is out?

And no -- Full Loot on death is NOT going to make people want to play Darkfall. If anything, it will make even more people run away from it.  Also -- skill based is nice yes.. but it isn't anything so new and great that it will attract or pull tons of people away from other games.

Darkfall is nothing special. It's an older looking PvP sandbox game. I can go play an older looking PvP sandbox style game right now called Asheron's Call on Darktide.

 

Mate...

You are talking so much giving value in marketing and advertising in a game.  When you are a small developing company its kinda hard to build on this due to financial reasons. The counter attack on this though is that they focused much on gameplay mechanics, networking code that will hopefully be lagg free in reasonably   terms,  they devoted them selfs  more  in trying to make the game better  than advertising ..  What did AOC and WAR managed focusing more in advertising and less in the game they made? Apart making seriously thinking players ,with high standards of  gaming products excpectations,laugh with the meaningless and void products? AOC had seriously lack of promised and they lied about pvp system on launch full of instanced world,and WAR SEEMS more like unreal tournament and less like a solid mmo role playing world......Nothing..They got themselfs embarassed.. nothing more...

So DF has not much things to offer?

How about a huge cruel and realistic world to  A D V E N T U R E on it? ships and naval battles.. building vilages and houses .. A taste of what Ultima online have offered in 3d grafs with Oblivion like combat style system nothing new uh? What better can a player imagine  that fighting with a combat system similar to oblivion.

Skill based combat u said its nothing so new? What world of warcraft has to offer to me after i played it

3+ 1/2 y in a row?  Havent u noticed they made WOW ' s pvp easy even for the worst noobs? All an arcane  mage has to do is spam the instanst spells and deal great dmg despice the fact he's unskilled . Retris?  I used to play piano in my keyboard and do a lot of melee tricks with my hunter in order to get a 10 yards distance  to be able to use my bow ,now u can shoot with bow from 3 yards...They made the game easy to fight for the noobs ,and destroyed  the skilled fights .. That was ofc  before burning crusade .

How about RP? most other games has no rp at all simply because of the meaningless world its based on. In a world u have noting to loose  roleplay seems more like theatrical . in a cruel medieval realistic world where your life -and your gear- can be held in the hands of your companions leaves place for a stronger rp enviroment cause rp is greately enchansed by the situations you can be on ,creating stronger relations with your mates ,brother alike situations fight back to back with your guildmates against the enemies. That cant happen in wow or in the other mmo's cause simply by dying in an instance or in pvp fights u just respawn ,or loosing few fer arena rating , without having to loosing anything.. safe free hug place with happy gnomes and undead mages jumping like retards and throwing instance spells ..not for me matie.. not anymore...

IN DF u earn combats with your sword ,blood and tears and not with the clicking of a single button.. wake up.. Wow's combat system maybe fun for 12-17 y old kid but for 25+ y old players skills are the a-z tome of value.

The only thing i agree with u is that the full loting will throw away after a period some players maybe. I  can imagine that even a hardcore player may get tired after fully looted ,run to bank get gear and go back to his last location. Considering looting i ve posted in past my ideas on this with a partial looting example 1 item drops from your inventory randomly+ some money... But i guess its up to devs to consider this and i beg them to reconsider upon this for  the game's shake.

Wow you spent way too much time responding to an Evilgargamel post.  The guy is a known troll who isnt here for a discussion.  He just bashes the game and will not read and respond to your well thought out post with any kind of objective response. 

Has the "shit storm" not already been raging for ages ? I mean I found out about darkfall through the other forums where its mere name was whipsered like a dark bringer of death.

Hmm anyways... at least darkfall seems a different appraoch than lots of current MMO's ... and it is not a company which has pissed me off before so it most likely get a look in. So yeah go Darkfall.. even if you do suck for me eventually. ... That sounded wrong... 

Darkfall = Dark and Light.

Originally posted by Locklain

Yet another post of "If the game does not get 1mil+ subs it fails!"  Its a good thing everyone on this bloody forum has a crystal ball.

Umm you should have done this thing called read his post.  In no way did he say the game would fail.  He just said there is going to be massive flaming because of the type of game its going to be.

Sandbox:  Sapposive no holding hands = majority does not like

FFA PvP with Looting:  BIG BIG BIG turn off.  Most played "class" will be any stealth class that can just run around and gank people.  And just jack look from you.  Noobs will be turned off of this game so fast its not even funny.  After the game peeks the game will never ever get a rise in player base.   Top players gank Low players = new player leaves.

So hes just stating complete facts about the game.  FFA PvP with player Looting is a big turn off.  Harsh "Hey your in the game now do something." type of begining gets next to no players.

Now if the games good its good, but it will be flamed and it will be hated on, by what I would say is the majority of mmo players.

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79 

After 11 years playing MMO's it is in my experience that if a sandbox MMO does a decent job it generaly gets 200-300k subs at it's peak.

so let me get this straight -- you're basically saying that you believe that this game will have the same number of active subscribers that Star Wars Galaxies had when it first came out?

You're living in a dream world. You are a very naive, ignorant person if you honestly believe that this game is going to have anywhere remotely close to 200-300k subscribers. 

I would be shocked if it was able to keep 30,000 subs for a full year. In fact, the 30,000 subs number would even shock me.

It's not as easy as you think to get people to pay to play.

This game has no marketing. This product is vague and obscure. It has no face other than in Greece and among the few thousand hardcore followers.

And then throw into the mix the largest, most feature rich, most costly expansion ever created for a MMO coming out in days ---- Lich King

This game is doomed to either bankruptcy or a tiny subscriber base. The latter being the probable outcome.

Sorry there is nothing new in that expansion.  Its all been done before in other games or in its current form. WoW WotLK is the same game as WoW is now.  Nothing will change.  The grind will be huge untill 4 months before their next expansion and then the scrubby noob that leveld to 80 and quit right after can get that Teir Over 9000 gear faster than you did.

Originally posted by onlinenow225

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79 

After 11 years playing MMO's it is in my experience that if a sandbox MMO does a decent job it generaly gets 200-300k subs at it's peak.

so let me get this straight -- you're basically saying that you believe that this game will have the same number of active subscribers that Star Wars Galaxies had when it first came out?

You're living in a dream world. You are a very naive, ignorant person if you honestly believe that this game is going to have anywhere remotely close to 200-300k subscribers. 

I would be shocked if it was able to keep 30,000 subs for a full year. In fact, the 30,000 subs number would even shock me.

It's not as easy as you think to get people to pay to play.

This game has no marketing. This product is vague and obscure. It has no face other than in Greece and among the few thousand hardcore followers.

And then throw into the mix the largest, most feature rich, most costly expansion ever created for a MMO coming out in days ---- Lich King

This game is doomed to either bankruptcy or a tiny subscriber base. The latter being the probable outcome.

 

Sorry there is nothing new in that expansion.  Its all been done before in other games or in its current form. WoW WotLK is the same game as WoW is now.  Nothing will change.  The grind will be huge untill 4 months before their next expansion and then the scrubby noob that leveld to 80 and quit right after can get that Teir Over 9000 gear faster than you did.

Yeah but to your average WoW player WOTLK is huge, it brings lore + new content.

I don't get why people hate Blizzard so much, yeah WoW is a total carebear PvE game with PvP thrown into the mix that any idiot can play... but blizzard works their asses off to make sure the game stays exploit free, they ban hackers and punish cheaters, they try to deal with gold farming(hard), and still adds in new shit... If Blizzard made their next MMO have FFA pvp with looting you know you'd be excited, because you know the game would most likely kick some ass and be huge because blizzard-activision is stamped on it.

all that said, i think wow is boring and i don't play it, i just don't like to see people bash a good game just because it's not their play style.

that is why we have darkfall, so we can own it up

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Sorry WoW just seems to easy to me, I mean if William Shatner can play WoW then there just isn't much challenge lol.

Easy sells and makes money.

Hard and challenging doesn't.

People want to have fun when they play games. Not be griefed and lose all their stuff.

So in reality -- they basically built this game to NOT make any money.  They designed it around old ideas like AC1 Darktide which had the lowest population of all the servers with only a few hundred people on at peak times..

They basically built a game to attract the least amount of people to it. lol

They have the business sense of goats. Which is one more reasion why it's going to fail.

 

I can agree with your "Easy" and "Hard" remarks. Those are an unfortunate truth because the "gaming age" audience companies believe is their target audience is Generation Instant Gratification/Short Attention Span(X). That's just the way it is.

As for the "old ideas" comment, I agree with your specific comment, in so much that Darktide was a bad example to mold a game, but I disagree in that AC (regular servers) would be a great pattern to build upon for a new MMO. AC did quite well in its day and a game taking its principles would do well today as well I think.

Lol I love this view of how games require Instant Gratification.  No games do not even remotly require it.

What they do require is to be fun WHILE working for something.  Grinding BG's in WoW for a month is not fun. 

Playing unbalanced and complete class/gear based glorified group duels for better gear is not fun.  (yet it is for so many... i dont know why)

Look back to old school console and computer games.  They were on different levels of difficulty in comparison to the games of new.  But did people buy them?  Well they must have because games are a big money maker now.

So no the problem with games now is devs are trying to make a quick buck instead of making a game they them selfs would love to play. 

Easy and Hard are subjective as well, one might find that korean grinding game cake yet find WoW hard.  But like I said, its not the difficulty really, its the fun factor.  If the game has no fun factor while trying to earn the fun factor, you will see poeple quickly leaving/not buying your game.

AS this game had trouble even convincing someone to publish it.. good luck with its "success"

Business people are even less finicky than gamers ...