I just cancelled World of Warcraft.

The expansion got me thinking about how pointless the game really is. Its just a treadmill and I was the mouse being led around. I dont want to be forced to do another 500 quests, grind another 10 factions for rep, raid another 5 dungeons for 6 months, etc because I know in another 6 months they'll add another dungeon that makes all previous work obsolete.

Do people honestly find this enjoyable ? I guess they must if 10+ million play the game. They did manage to get 2 years from me as well. Not because the game is so good but because there simply isnt any other options available.

Why cant Blizz add some features that arent 100% focused on combat ? Why not make the game more appealing to the sandbox fans ? It wouldnt take much, just add a crafter class, housing, personal vendors, and crafter item buffs (maybe give food cooking to crafters only)

I remember my last day in WoW. I was watching players running around doing daily quests on sunwell isle. I kept thinking this is so stupid. This isnt content, its just cheese for the mice to chase around and find. I even asked in general chat if players were actually enjoying doing these mindless tasks (for some reason they do like it)

I hope Fallout 3 can keep me occupied until STO, Fallen Earth, or something else similiar launches. I dont want back into the theme park. Ive done all the rides, theyre boring

Mhh I understand what you are saying.

But by nature MMMORPGs are time sinks.
They are games which last longer...............

Of course ultimately there is no point in playing MMORPG, as there is no point playing games or watching TV or listening to the music or playing football.
They are all hobbies, and they are made to enjoy the moment.

Originally posted by admriker4

I just cancelled World of Warcraft.

The expansion got me thinking about how pointless the game really is. Its just a treadmill and I was the mouse being led around. I dont want to be forced to do another 500 quests, grind another 10 factions for rep, raid another 5 dungeons for 6 months, etc because I know in another 6 months they'll add another dungeon that makes all previous work obsolete.

Do people honestly find this enjoyable ? I guess they must if 10+ million play the game. They did manage to get 2 years from me as well. Not because the game is so good but because there simply isnt any other options available.

Why cant Blizz add some features that arent 100% focused on combat ? Why not make the game more appealing to the sandbox fans ? It wouldnt take much, just add a crafter class, housing, personal vendors, and crafter item buffs (maybe give food cooking to crafters only)

I remember my last day in WoW. I was watching players running around doing daily quests on sunwell isle. I kept thinking this is so stupid. This isnt content, its just cheese for the mice to chase around and find. I even asked in general chat if players were actually enjoying doing these mindless tasks (for some reason they do like it)

I hope Fallout 3 can keep me occupied until STO, Fallen Earth, or something else similiar launches. I dont want back into the theme park. Ive done all the rides, theyre boring

same here. i'm done with mmos untill devs can think outside the box.

p.s. fallout 3 rules.

I guess dumpster diving would be fun ya? 

Themeparks are meant to take the player through a story, while adding some elements of character development.  I'm sorry it takes folks like the OP so long to discover this and somehow feel dissappointed or misled.  Most games are like this though; whether it's an MMO or a single player game. 

And ... what's with people playing games for years they dislike? 

Originally posted by admriker4

I just cancelled World of Warcraft.

The expansion got me thinking about how pointless the game really is. Its just a treadmill and I was the mouse being led around. I dont want to be forced to do another 500 quests, grind another 10 factions for rep, raid another 5 dungeons for 6 months, etc because I know in another 6 months they'll add another dungeon that makes all previous work obsolete.

Do people honestly find this enjoyable ? I guess they must if 10+ million play the game. They did manage to get 2 years from me as well. Not because the game is so good but because there simply isnt any other options available.

Why cant Blizz add some features that arent 100% focused on combat ? Why not make the game more appealing to the sandbox fans ? It wouldnt take much, just add a crafter class, housing, personal vendors, and crafter item buffs (maybe give food cooking to crafters only)

I remember my last day in WoW. I was watching players running around doing daily quests on sunwell isle. I kept thinking this is so stupid. This isnt content, its just cheese for the mice to chase around and find. I even asked in general chat if players were actually enjoying doing these mindless tasks (for some reason they do like it)

I hope Fallout 3 can keep me occupied until STO, Fallen Earth, or something else similiar launches. I dont want back into the theme park. Ive done all the rides, theyre boring

It's very hard for a game to mix 'sandbox' with 'theme park'...   You basically have to stick with your poison.   WOW is exactly as you described and they are fine with it, along with most players.  People playing wow are mostly comfortable with the fact tht the great drop they got last night from a raid will be replaced in a few months.  That's how themepark games work.

The problem is that there really aren't any really good sandbox games on the market.  UO was a great sandbox back in the day.   Eve is a very good game.   But that is basically it.   Developers had to decide early on if they were going to follow the EQ model, or the UO model.   They all seemed to follow EQ.

The problem now is there probably isn't a huge market for a sandbox game.  Most players have never played one, and wouldn't know HOW to play it.  They'd call it boring, and complain that there isn't anything to do.  What happens when you find a village and there are no quest givers with ! above their heads?  As time goes on, less and less players will remember how to play UO.

Also from a business standpoint, it is a huge gamble.   EQ had triple the players of UO.. which is why games like WOW went with the EQ model.  Now you have WOW with 20 times the players as most other games.. it's very hard to ignore that and gamble on an unproven style (sand box).

I think a mix is doable, but you have to see it the right way.  Do  you see it as sandbox with a theme or a theme park each ride is it's own sandbox.  For example, there was a sci-story/movie long ago call Westworld.  It was a there park with different areas, there was the old west, a future setting (future world), a roman setting, and maybe more, I forget.

Why couldn't a game approach  as a bunch of sandboxes with different themes.  It doesn't have to fit the roman/old west/future themes, you could make it based on pve/pvp/crafting.  As an alternative, it could be like Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion with different realities to enter.

the reason i quit was that i couldnt take the community anymore. everyone was just so immature and annoying that i couldnt go into big cities anymore.  i know that this isnt a big deal for most ppl but i would like to play a game where the average maturity age was above 14 years

Originally posted by admriker4

I just cancelled World of Warcraft.

The expansion got me thinking about how pointless the game really is. Its just a treadmill and I was the mouse being led around. I dont want to be forced to do another 500 quests, grind another 10 factions for rep, raid another 5 dungeons for 6 months, etc because I know in another 6 months they'll add another dungeon that makes all previous work obsolete.

Do people honestly find this enjoyable ? I guess they must if 10+ million play the game. They did manage to get 2 years from me as well. Not because the game is so good but because there simply isnt any other options available.

Why cant Blizz add some features that arent 100% focused on combat ? Why not make the game more appealing to the sandbox fans ? It wouldnt take much, just add a crafter class, housing, personal vendors, and crafter item buffs (maybe give food cooking to crafters only)

I remember my last day in WoW. I was watching players running around doing daily quests on sunwell isle. I kept thinking this is so stupid. This isnt content, its just cheese for the mice to chase around and find. I even asked in general chat if players were actually enjoying doing these mindless tasks (for some reason they do like it)

I hope Fallout 3 can keep me occupied until STO, Fallen Earth, or something else similiar launches. I dont want back into the theme park. Ive done all the rides, theyre boring

lol, you are so dismissive and high and mighty aren't you?

So let's see, you actually played WoW for more than a few hours. And after I presume, enjoying it you suddenly have this epiphany that it is only light hearted fun and assume that you are now enlightened above the plebes who are scurrying around?

I don't know, looking over your post history (libertarian?) It seems that you never really liked linear games. Yet there you were playing one.

I especially like your statement that you really want swg to shut down but don't want the NGE players playing along side you in other games (or was that the other star wars game which I don't think you are going to like anyway?)

You sir are a gem.

Your point of view sure seems to be shared by a lot of posters.    I think know what you mean when you  use phrases like "have to..." and "forced..."  and "[no] other options available"...

...but I don't understand where you're coming from. You played for two years and your post makes it sound like  you never had fun at all.  The truth is that you didn't have to, you weren't forced into doing anything and there were other options.   I guess I don't see where your choice whether to participate or not was taken away.

I'm not trying to put yo down at all.  To me, if something isn't fun, I don't do it.  WoW is fun- I've played for years, but I only play a few times a week - Is that the secret?

In any case, I agree with your sentiments.   I would like more sand-boxy content in all the games I play.  I too am looking forward to Fallout 3.

Main reason I see why so many accept WoW's non content type of gameplay, is simply this is thier first MMO and they dont know any better, also, all thier friends are trapped in a vicious circle. I cant quit cuz my friends need me. The last seems the be the excuse I hear the most from my guild mates.

Originally posted by lugal

Main reason I see why so many accept WoW's non content type of gameplay, is simply this is thier first MMO and they dont know any better, also, all thier friends are trapped in a vicious circle. I cant quit cuz my friends need me. The last seems the be the excuse I hear the most from my guild mates.

Please don't fool yourself with this as you can take it too far.  People left UO long before WoW existed as an example.  The reason your thinking sounds good to you is that you don't have to challenge yourself to believe it.  This can lead you into thinking it can't be wrong.

Originally posted by FreddyNoNose

Originally posted by lugal

Main reason I see why so many accept WoW's non content type of gameplay, is simply this is thier first MMO and they dont know any better, also, all thier friends are trapped in a vicious circle. I cant quit cuz my friends need me. The last seems the be the excuse I hear the most from my guild mates.

 

Please don't fool yourself with this as you can take it too far.  People left UO long before WoW existed as an example.  The reason your thinking sounds good to you is that you don't have to challenge yourself to believe it.  This can lead you into thinking it can't be wrong.

You make a valid point. But you have to concede that people will be less tempted to quit thier "first" like you or I can quit due to playing many MMO's. Our loyalty is not to a game anymore, its to ourselves and friends. If you understand the point I'm making.

How about people settle for the game they have the most -FUN- in?

You know that#s what a game is supposed to be right? Fun?

Be that because of friends you play with, because of game mechanics, because of story elements, freedom in the world or whatever reason you have, it doesn't really matter. If a game causes you to enjoy yourself, the game does its job and does it well.

I wish people would stop putting down other people#s enjoyment as "blind", "inexperienced" or even "without good taste" (I'm not referring specifically to OP, but to everyone who feels it's their duty to point out to other gamers what they should be enjoying).

i'm sorry, but there is no such thing as a sandbox mmo, people who think so are blind.  eve is considered to be the best sandbox game out there, no matter how boring warping for the entire game is.

the fact is, even in a game like eve where you can create everything you use in the game, build giant space ships, build entire galactic cities, and even defend/destroy them, it's a wheel that you have to keep turning, you go mine ore or do missions until you have enough money to make said items, and then you blow them up just to start over again.

mmo's are just like life on a smaller scale, you do what you have to do (work) and then you do what you can to have fun.  there is no such thing as a sandbox world, or a sandbox game. it doesn't exist

I don't think people think things through when they make posts and comments like the OP.  Everyone says that "sandbox" games are so much better, and that they let you do "whatever you want".  The fact is, that's a huge load of crap.  Let's take the two so-called "sandbox" games of EVE Online and Ryzom.  Ryzom has no story line to speak of, and only generic "missions" (which are nothing more than quests with less effort) to participate in.  Otherwise, you can craft or fight.  You are limited by levels, and the only different thing about the game is that you can combine properties to make your own skills.  WoW also has crafting, combat, dungeons, grouping, PvP (both organized and random world encounters), and a variety of other game/RPG features that make it fun for many who play it.

EVE Online is similar in the fact that there is no real storyline to "follow", but there are ongoing episodes and stories to follow.  Again, PvE combat is accomplished by repetitive mission-quests.  A difference in EVE mostly lies with the facts that it is space-based and skill points are gained over time and not through in-game accomplishments.  It has its fun, but in terms of "content" (unique items/ships/locations/enemies/etc.) there is little in comparison to some of the "treadmill" games people bitch about like WoW, LotRO, and EQ2.

Some people think that there are single-player RPGs that are better in some way and should be the foundation for what an MMO should be.  As examples, Oblivion and the recent Fallout 3.  These are vast games with a lot of things to do, but they are still SCRIPTED and the story is ultimately LINEAR and has an end.  Just because you can kill the shop-keeper to get some goods doesn't make it great and doesn't mean it's a good mechanic for online games.  You're still running around doing tasks for NPCs you meet and killing things for experience points/items.

Ultimately it comes down to the simple plan of, "If it's fun, play it.  If it's not, don't"  Oh, and if you play(ed) it even though it wasn't fun, you need to rethink your follower mentality.

Originally posted by admriker4

I just cancelled World of Warcraft.

The expansion got me thinking about how pointless the game really is. Its just a treadmill and I was the mouse being led around. I dont want to be forced to do another 500 quests, grind another 10 factions for rep, raid another 5 dungeons for 6 months, etc because I know in another 6 months they'll add another dungeon that makes all previous work obsolete.

Do people honestly find this enjoyable ? I guess they must if 10+ million play the game. They did manage to get 2 years from me as well. Not because the game is so good but because there simply isnt any other options available.

Why cant Blizz add some features that arent 100% focused on combat ? Why not make the game more appealing to the sandbox fans ? It wouldnt take much, just add a crafter class, housing, personal vendors, and crafter item buffs (maybe give food cooking to crafters only)

I remember my last day in WoW. I was watching players running around doing daily quests on sunwell isle. I kept thinking this is so stupid. This isnt content, its just cheese for the mice to chase around and find. I even asked in general chat if players were actually enjoying doing these mindless tasks (for some reason they do like it)

I hope Fallout 3 can keep me occupied until STO, Fallen Earth, or something else similiar launches. I dont want back into the theme park. Ive done all the rides, theyre boring

How is there no other options available I dont get it?? How about not playing an MMO? Going out? meeting girls?? Having a drink? Watching a movie? Visiting a historical site? Exercising? There are millions of other options.
 

I dont get why people feel they have to play an mmo even fi the mmo sucks???

Originally posted by singsofdeath

How about people settle for the game they have the most -FUN- in?

 

You know that#s what a game is supposed to be right? Fun?

 

Be that because of friends you play with, because of game mechanics, because of story elements, freedom in the world or whatever reason you have, it doesn't really matter. If a game causes you to enjoy yourself, the game does its job and does it well.

 

I wish people would stop putting down other people#s enjoyment as "blind", "inexperienced" or even "without good taste" (I'm not referring specifically to OP, but to everyone who feels it's their duty to point out to other gamers what they should be enjoying).

its true what they say, slaves can actually learn to love their chains.

Im sorry but what possible fun is there in doing daily mindnumbing low-brow quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ???

These players just dont know any better and have learned to accept and even cherish utter garbage

Originally posted by brihtwulf

I don't think people think things through when they make posts and comments like the OP.  Everyone says that "sandbox" games are so much better, and that they let you do "whatever you want".  The fact is, that's a huge load of crap.  Let's take the two so-called "sandbox" games of EVE Online and Ryzom.  Ryzom has no story line to speak of, and only generic "missions" (which are nothing more than quests with less effort) to participate in.  Otherwise, you can craft or fight.  You are limited by levels, and the only different thing about the game is that you can combine properties to make your own skills.  WoW also has crafting, combat, dungeons, grouping, PvP (both organized and random world encounters), and a variety of other game/RPG features that make it fun for many who play it.

EVE Online is similar in the fact that there is no real storyline to "follow", but there are ongoing episodes and stories to follow.  Again, PvE combat is accomplished by repetitive mission-quests.  A difference in EVE mostly lies with the facts that it is space-based and skill points are gained over time and not through in-game accomplishments.  It has its fun, but in terms of "content" (unique items/ships/locations/enemies/etc.) there is little in comparison to some of the "treadmill" games people bitch about like WoW, LotRO, and EQ2.

Some people think that there are single-player RPGs that are better in some way and should be the foundation for what an MMO should be.  As examples, Oblivion and the recent Fallout 3.  These are vast games with a lot of things to do, but they are still SCRIPTED and the story is ultimately LINEAR and has an end.  Just because you can kill the shop-keeper to get some goods doesn't make it great and doesn't mean it's a good mechanic for online games.  You're still running around doing tasks for NPCs you meet and killing things for experience points/items.

Ultimately it comes down to the simple plan of, "If it's fun, play it.  If it's not, don't"  Oh, and if you play(ed) it even though it wasn't fun, you need to rethink your follower mentality.

just plain wrong...

and your example of Fallout 3 is also incorrect. Yes there are scripted quests but guess what, I dont have to do them. I have the OPTION to do some, skip them, etc. total freedom.

In EVE I can go forever without ever entering combat. I can run my own business literally in EVE. In WoW I can do nothing but combat and quests. the game's sole focus is repetitive killing. non-combat is a dirty term in WoW.

In SWG I  can decorate a house and label it a museum. Can I do that in WoW or other linear games ? Even the linear games that do eventually give in and add housing still manage to make it a controlled lame mess (see LOTR and its no label, no free placement housing)

There is no comparison. sandbox games are virtual worlds where I can live and build anything I desire. Linear games like WoW are for people who want to be entertained and have short attention spans.

Originally posted by admriker4

Originally posted by singsofdeath

How about people settle for the game they have the most -FUN- in?

 

You know that#s what a game is supposed to be right? Fun?

 

Be that because of friends you play with, because of game mechanics, because of story elements, freedom in the world or whatever reason you have, it doesn't really matter. If a game causes you to enjoy yourself, the game does its job and does it well.

 

I wish people would stop putting down other people#s enjoyment as "blind", "inexperienced" or even "without good taste" (I'm not referring specifically to OP, but to everyone who feels it's their duty to point out to other gamers what they should be enjoying).

 

its true what they say, slaves can actually learn to love their chains.

Im sorry but what possible fun is there in doing daily mindnumbing low-brow quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ???

These players just dont know any better and have learned to accept and even cherish utter garbage

The answer is simple: Don't do them.

For some WoW is all about being the best - the best gear, the best raider, the best PvP'er. This is fine if you are willing to endure the grind and massive time investment.

Personally, I have never engaged in a high-end raid, nor have I had to grind reputation or battlegrounds. Yeah my gear sucks, my arena team has a terrible rating and I suck in PvP. But you know what? I don't care 'cos I'm having FUN. The fact that I'm in a great guild that is up for having some awesome adventures is a huge part of that.

Just because there's a carrot on the end of the stick, doesn't mean you have to chase it.

Originally posted by admriker4 

its true what they say, slaves can actually learn to love their chains.

Im sorry but what possible fun is there in doing daily mindnumbing low-brow quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ???

These players just dont know any better and have learned to accept and even cherish utter garbage

That last part is fun given your history with dumpster diving. 

Anyway ... by your own admission you spent two years playing.  So were you forced into playing or are you some self-loathing idiot?