Fallout 3.

i can't stop playing. Typing this after finally taking a break.

try persona 3 ,  its part of the megaten series ... and ya fallout 3 if ur into the open ended world :)

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by Obliviuze

 Oblivion, and it's expansion Shivering Isles

 

 

He wanted to know a good cRPG. Oblivion is not a cRPG.

 

Um if your talking about Computer Role Playing Game then yes it is.  I have it on my computer and its a RPG.

 

Your other post why don't you see Mass Effect as a RPG? I consider  it a RPG its just not a Turn Based RPG.  Anything that has Character progression in it and Levels I consider an RPG of some sord. Be it Turned base, Action or FPS or TPS. There is all kinds of sub categories. 

If you dismiss all the RPG elements of a game just because it uses player skill to aim then im sorry I think that is crazy.

 

RPG is a way to roleplay your character, it doesn't mean just playing a different role in a game. Character advancement and levels are not signs of a RPG. The Sims is more a roleplaying game than oblivion or mass effect. They are both a hack'n slash action games.

Oblivion you have a choice how you want to play your character, it may not be as open ended as say playing tabletop DnD but still you have the basic alignments you can choose to play as. You can choose to play a Paladin that has kinda been questioning his morals and starts going on a killing rampage and turns evil. Or a thief that will screw anyone over they can just to get loot, but then something in the game might make you change your ways.  Its up to you how you want to play your character  hell I could think of so many more ways to play a character in that game.

 

I ve been playing roleplaying video games for 17years and Ive been playing tabletop games for 12, I don't see Mass Effect or Oblivion any less of a RPG compared to FF or BG1.  The sims is more of a  simulator, hence the name sims.  But it does have ways you can play your character.  

 

If you go back to RPG tabletop games which started the whole genre you still have Levels and character development and that is very much a core property of RPG's. RPG isn't just a way to roleplay a character.

 

 

 

Oblivion is FPS. Mass Effect is FPS. Kotor is FPS. These are not RPG's. Add a side quest or two to Far Cry and a few skills from which a player can choose, and it would still be FPS not RPG. The main gameplay in Oblivion, Mass Effect, Kotor is combat. In these games you spend most of the time fightning, or jumping or running from the first or third person view. The combat is action-based, the games are filled with action. You swing your weapon, you aim your bow, you target your spell... This is why it is FPS and not RPG.

Just because you can control where you shoot your arrow and sword dosen't make it any less of  a RPG. They may have added FPS elements to it but its core is still RPG.   In table top RPGs you can choose where you wan't to shoot people and swing a sword so that why I like the FPS elements put into an RPG.

The  RPG genre is changing, I like real time combat but still having the ability  to pause the game and use some strategy.  You don't have to fight all the time in Oblivion and Mass Effect. Yes there is a lot but what RPG dosen't have a lot of encounters.   I got sick of playing FF games because I would run into an encounter every 5 seconds,  Talk about focusing on combat, lol.  Does that make it an action game?

Combat will always be a part of RPG's you can't always talk your way out of a battle, sometimes you have to let your sword or bullets do the talking for you.

 

 

 

This is definition of FPS: 

Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.

Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.

The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

My definition of FPS:

A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

My definition of an RPG in a video game.

Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

RPG as in tabletop:

Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.

Originally posted by PezDSpencer

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by Umbral

Steelrose

Yes, the engine is not exacly good and the amount of loading is annoying.

The Witcher is a story-driven game but much less linear than Bioware last games and it can be a pretty hard game if you set the game in that way.

Im pretty sure you didnt experienced the game as what you said about good and evil has absolute nothing to do with the Witcher.

Some negative aspects (like loadings) are an issue easy to forget when you get into the game. Games like BG and Planescape are not perfect in the technical side aswell, but we know they are great RPGs, tha same happens with The Witcher.

 ..

 

No I was saying Witcher has a couple of obvious choices usually 2 in a form of partying with one side or another. And it's a joke. It's the same as good vs evil. In a linear game like Witcher there's not possible to add realistic consequences.

For some reason, every women in Witcher is a whore or a witch. That doesn't make the world dark or mature. There're extremly long loading screens. The engine is horrible, it has invisible walls everywhere. You can't run around a small stone, because the collision is too large around it. Game is divided into chapters, and each chapter is linear. There's a quest marker that keeps you saying where to go all the time. Witcher is no RPG either. 90% of the game you spend in loading screens, 9% in FPS-style combat and 1% running around asking people how you can help them.

 

Maybe you should try the new version, you can get a free patch if you already bought the game. 

 

Btw, load times were never a problem for me.  Don't know why people complained about them.

there were some really great things about the witcher. However, there is something awkard about it, even with the new version (which does shorten loading times quite a bit).

I found that movement was a pain in the neck with point and click. And there are odd walls.

In one of the first places I couldn't cross the water (before you get into the city) so I thought you couldn't go in the water.

Then later I go in a swamp, there's water but I don't bother to go in because I thought you couldn't wade through the water. But you can in the swamp.

There are other annoyances though, as I find myself clicking a lot because the movement seems rather odd. There is a slowing down when the character  comes to a stop but if I want him to move quickly from that spot I find that I'm fighting with that slowing down feature.

And lastly, I don't have a problem with every woman being a whore or a witch because that is the story that the dev's are telling. I may not agree with the point of view but in the case of a  game, like a movie or book, I allow for differing points of view. If it bothered me I would just "not play the game".

Now, I don't think women are whores or witches (well there are some who are but no doubt they have their male counterparts) but if the story is like that then so be it. It's like complaining how women are treated in Conan. The story is the story.

 Oblivion ,Mass Effect, Kotor, The Witcher.. Etc. are just as much an RPG as any other out there , end of story.

Fable 2 is great!

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

 

This is definition of FPS: 

Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.

Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.

The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

 

I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

My definition of FPS:

A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

 

My definition of an RPG in a video game.

Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

RPG as in tabletop:

Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

 

Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

 

Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.

 

 

 

No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.

Fallout 3 and Fable 2

Originally posted by Steelrose

I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.

I don't see why that is a problem. So what  if you have to aim with a cursor?

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Steelrose

I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.

 

I don't see why that is a problem. So what  if you have to aim with a cursor?

Because, it means its FPS and I HATE FPS. Im not playing FPS because I have to aim with my cursor. It's stressful to aim, it's too much based on reflexes and my own dexterity and I don't want that. I like to play a slow preferably turn-based isometric game with a lot of time to think. And there's no RPG like that anymore. Everything that's getting released lately are FPS-style games so it pleases the majority of gamers (console-gamers), because that's what sells.

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

 

This is definition of FPS: 

Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.

Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.

The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

 

I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

My definition of FPS:

A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

 

My definition of an RPG in a video game.

Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

RPG as in tabletop:

Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

 

Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

 

Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.

 

 

 

 

No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

Well if that is the case then most games are no rpg's. So what you are asking is to play a game where you can be a grocer in a fantasy world?

Look, these games stem from players wanting to be either a hero or some sort of side kick to a hero. Oblivioin is a rpg. It might require you to use a cursor to aim but so what? (as I said to the other gentleman).

That's just a game mechanic. Are you asking for an "i win" button so that you don't put forth any effort?

It seems to me that you are too caught up in game mechanics.

I play Oblivion as an RPG. I add and discard things as I wish. So, invisibility in Oblivion seemed like a game breaker though it has its advantages. I then made a rule only to use it under certain circumstances. I then adopted a certain personality for the character and played that character appropriately.

Now, I don't want to be a grocer in Oblvion so of course I went out there to smite evil (or good). I can agree with you in that the main quest does force you into a bit of a role, but you can easily role play this if you had the imagination to do so.

For my evil characters it was simple. Though my character was evil, Mehrunes Dagon (sp?) was a threat to what my character wanted and it was important to side with whoever I needed to in order to bring him down.

Is it total freedom where I can join Mehrunes Dagon? No, it's not. Quite frankly it would be better if you had that option. But that does not make it a "non rpg". It does make it an rpg where the choices are limited. But it still does not discount that you can roleplay a character in it.

And in the end, no one is forcing you to play the main story anyway. My apartment mate never really got far in the story. He got as far as escorting Martin to Cloud Ruler Temple and that was it. He was finished with the main story and set about to do the quests in the game as well as explore.

That's the beauty of it.

I applaud them making the combat exciting where you can actually die if you aren't good enough.

But what's that you say? in your game you are the best swordmaster and there should never be a chance that you die? No worries, put the game on easy and you can blaze through everything.

I'm sorry but you come across as a bit of a bean counter. Someone who loves rules and really needs them to define things.

Why can't a rpg utilize fps mechanics? Why can't a FPS incorporate rpg elements? Is it really that important to keep these things separate?

Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.

About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.

Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

Originally posted by Steelrose

Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.

About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.

Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

Ok so first you say combat doesn't matter then you say if it was turn based it would be good?
 

But yes, it is about style of playing and as I said, you can adopt a persona or role in Oblviion. As far as "thinking" when you are playing, you discount that there is actual thought that goes on during combat in Oblviion. Heck, spell casting is like that. Have you ever had a battle which was predominantly spell casting? It's practically turn based.

I don't know Wizardry 7 or 8 and will look into them. However, I maintain that because you can adopt a role and even choose how you play the game, that Oblivion is a role play game. And as I said, if you have slow reflexes, you can put the combat on easy and the problem is solved.

Originally posted by Steelrose

Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.

About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.

Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

You are very ignorant and no one on these forums agrees with you. Stop posting.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Steelrose

Why are you talking about something completely different in all your 20 lines? Combat doesn't mean anything. Combat is in RTS, RPG, FPS, Turn-based whatever. It's about the style of playing. If there would be turn-based combat in Oblivion like it is in Wizardry series, then it would be definetly a great RPG. But with the FPS aiming combat its just FPS.

About what skill are you talking about for christ's sake? I don't give a shit about some illusionary skill you're talking about. I want to have fun and not get stressed by my slow reflexes and bad aiming at the monsters.

Did you play Wizardry 7 or 8? That's my favourite RPG series. The combat is not stressful, you have to THINK when you play and not just aim with your cursor. That's a skill in my vocabulary.

Ok so first you say combat doesn't matter then you say if it was turn based it would be good?
 

But yes, it is about style of playing and as I said, you can adopt a persona or role in Oblviion. As far as "thinking" when you are playing, you discount that there is actual thought that goes on during combat in Oblviion. Heck, spell casting is like that. Have you ever had a battle which was predominantly spell casting? It's practically turn based.

I don't know Wizardry 7 or 8 and will look into them. However, I maintain that because you can adopt a role and even choose how you play the game, that Oblivion is a role play game. And as I said, if you have slow reflexes, you can put the combat on easy and the problem is solved.

You are trying to give me a lecture of what is RPG and you don't know Wizardry series? 

Spellcasting turned? What are you talking about. It's like a regular FPS where both shooters have a gun with just one bullet and have to reload after every shot. You still need to aim with your cursor if you cast a spell just like you do when you shoot in first person shooters.

You can't play any way you want in Oblivion! You can't avoid the FPS combat whether it is ranged shooting, melee fighting or spellcasting. You can avoid roleplaying aspects (customization is minimal and basically automated, dialogues can be clicked over ...). Therefore the main feature of the game is FPS-que combat which is unavoidable and that makes the gameplay most of the time.

To the poster above me: I don't mind fightning the herd that was fooled by reviewers.

Wizardry was the first game ever made that used WSAD key movement. It had 8 series and it's the most fame RPG's of all time. Play it someday, and maybe you find out a difference between RPG and FPS.

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

 

This is definition of FPS: 

Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.

Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.

The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

 

I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

My definition of FPS:

A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

 

My definition of an RPG in a video game.

Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

RPG as in tabletop:

Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

 

Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

 

Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.

 

 

 

 

No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

So what I read from that RPG = being in dialog?  

I give up on debating  what an RPG is, you just stick to what your idea of what one is and I'll stick to mine.

Well I'm going to skip the debate...

Personally I'm playing Fallout 3.. glad I bought it and having fun.

I even bought the collectors edition and don't regret it.

/shrug

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

 

This is definition of FPS: 

Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.

Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.

The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

 

I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

My definition of FPS:

A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

 

My definition of an RPG in a video game.

Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

RPG as in tabletop:

Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

 

Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

 

Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.

 

 

 

 

No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

 

So what I read from that RPG = being in dialog?  

 

I give up on debating  what an RPG is, you just stick to what your idea of what one is and I'll stick to mine.

It is the gamestyle. Indeed, Oblivion would be a tremendous RPG with turn-based combat and without level scaling and with an actual character customization. But the way it is now, it's a bit more complex FPS.

There is no exact definition for RPG but there is exact definition for FPS. Any game with first person perspective and with live-action aiming with your cursor is FPS. Oblivion is FPS. Most of its content IS FPS therefore it is FPS. What's so hard to understand?

I repeat my example of a regular 30 minute gameplay in Oblivion: 5 minutes running around in town getting rumours and quests. 10 minute running towards a site (using a compass) and fightning monsters on the road. And then 15 minutes fightning quest mobs on site (usually multilayered dungeon)

There is constant on-going action in Oblivion from first person perspective that requires you to aim with your cursor -> THEREFORE ITS FPS. First person shooter involves shooting or otherwise killing enemies in first person perspective. What information in this definition is hard to understand?