Originally posted by Spamalot345

Originally posted by Pappy13

I have no comment on what you just said, I just love the oxymoronic title.

 

I'm not going to reply to your comment. I'm just glad to see that you're finally trying to make use of your word-of-the-day calendar.

Also, the OP has many valid points regarding the game.

WoW offers the most to people who have the most time to waste playing it. WoW validates the time sink via gear improvements which the players come to recognize as necessary for progress/success. In WoW moreso than in most other games, gear>skill. That is why children who play can still be successful. They may not have much skill, but they have plenty of time to spend getting that gear.

Time sink? i think what makes wow so good is the fact i can log on for an hr and get so much done. i can log on 2 days a week for 3-4hrs and work on sunwell. maybe you ment the pvp is a time sink? and Skill>gear in wow no matter what, iv killed countless full s4 players with pve gear. For wow to be fun and enjoyable it is all based on how good the player is think about it if your bad at something and someones better then you its 1 of 2 thing

1)the game isn't fair

2) This game is stupid beacuse they are better then me.

Most wow hatters are 1 or 2 or both.

Originally posted by Mentat

The talent system is lame...  It's not so much the system as the balance. If you want to play end game pve - you HAVE to spec a certain cookie cutter way. If you want to pvp - a different cookie cutter spec is required to succeed. They give you 3 potential talent trees but, you can't choose fun stuff unless you just don't care to be in an end game raiding guild or a group that won't diss you because you aren't specc'd right etc.

I'm tired of not playing charactors the way I want to, that's kinda lame. Worst off is end game elitism. WoW is so damn ridiculously easy that my buddies 8 yr old lvls charactors like it's nothing, every charactor class can easily solo and there is virtually no penalty for death. Being "elite" in WoW's end game is totally lame due to the fact that you're "bragging rights" are based on simply listening to the raid leader and clicking a couple buttons repeatedly.

Another gripe - the community. Sense the game is so so insanely easy, you get a mass of young people who (if you pay attention to the chat channels) make the game alot less fun that it could be with an awesome community. I've been playing Eve Online for about 3 weeks now and the community is frikkin awesome - except when the occasional WoW player signs up for the free trial and complains about the learning curve. It's awesome to be playing a mmo that's fun and weeds out stupid people at the same time.

Apologies for the gripe but, I paid tons of money into this game, I think I'm entitled.

I played since launch too and I think the title may be more appropriate as why I am sick of wow as you obviously liked it for years before deciding to quit, now this may be my idea that all mmo's in general have some "sandbox" elements the truth is you don't have to do most of the stuff you named in wow and still enjoy yourself I partook in pvp a bit while playing but don't see why you have to spec a certain way just to pvp maybe you will lose some but to me it's better than spending the rest of my in game time gimped for a few hours of pvp. Likewise with end game raiding I never did end game raids mostly because it is very difficult for me to sit down and commit to playing any one game for countless hours especially when you know that other people are counting on you to do that (who needs rl pressure in a video game?) but with some 11 million people to play with how can you fit so many people into these little boxes that you put them into.

    Ive nver looked at anyone elses build....I make my characters the way I like and thats that........If a guild has a problem with it thats too damn bad or Ill find another guild.......Too many players in this game let their guilds dictate their life.........

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Originally posted by Mentat
The talent system is lame...  It's not so much the system as the balance. If you want to play end game pve - you HAVE to spec a certain cookie cutter way. If you want to pvp - a different cookie cutter spec is required to succeed. They give you 3 potential talent trees but, you can't choose fun stuff unless you just don't care to be in an end game raiding guild or a group that won't diss you because you aren't specc'd right etc.
I'm tired of not playing charactors the way I want to, that's kinda lame. Worst off is end game elitism. WoW is so damn ridiculously easy that my buddies 8 yr old lvls charactors like it's nothing, every charactor class can easily solo and there is virtually no penalty for death. Being "elite" in WoW's end game is totally lame due to the fact that you're "bragging rights" are based on simply listening to the raid leader and clicking a couple buttons repeatedly.
Another gripe - the community. Sense the game is so so insanely easy, you get a mass of young people who (if you pay attention to the chat channels) make the game alot less fun that it could be with an awesome community. I've been playing Eve Online for about 3 weeks now and the community is frikkin awesome - except when the occasional WoW player signs up for the free trial and complains about the learning curve. It's awesome to be playing a mmo that's fun and weeds out stupid people at the same time.
Apologies for the gripe but, I paid tons of money into this game, I think I'm entitled.

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rofl learn to farm gold to respecc twice a week to pvp and pve
and i think u got unlucky on the guilds u played..
my guild is disciplined but we have good laughs and we have fun raiding we have swp3/9..
i think ur tired of playing because u spend so many time and money playing and u get nowhere and u see tons of sometimes younger ppl than you succeding in the game, but hey just my opinion i mean no offense :)

Originally posted by Spamalot345

Why is it absurd to think that some people might want to see the end game content prior to it being nerved into easy mode before an expansion? You do realize that instances/raiding IS what most of the end-game content is developed around, don't you?

And how many of those guilds exploring end game content are going to be as laissez-faire as what you describe? The fact is, he makes a valid point, despite some deliberate efforts to obscure/derail it.

There is a difference between being in a cutting edge raid guild that expects min/maxing to complete content before anyone else and just being in a raiding guild.  Those types of people take their gaming serious.

I've been in several guilds on several servers at various times, seen every end game zone before it was "nerfed" and never once had or seen anyone told how to spend their talent points, let alone done so to the point they can't play their character in the role they saw fit.  The point is the vast majority of players do not enforce this kind on mentality on their guild members.  To cry foul that he isn't allowed to play the way he wants and then act as if the entire game is denying him enjoyment is ABSURD.  See the difference? 

If you want to be in a cutting edge guild, but want to "play how you want to" of course there is going to be problems, because those types of people taking their gaming serious.  Find some people who play like you do and you will eventually get there.   There are tons of easy going people out there, I've played with them, they exist.  

He makes his point as if everyone is a talent nazi and there just is no room in the game for him to have fun as a result of it.  Sorry, but I can't buy that as valid. 

after years of  playing it still doenst change the fact that you are a NOOB.

-.-

Originally posted by leozap

after years of  playing it still doenst change the fact that you are a NOOB.

-.-

leozpa-kid, calling people noob is just lame. I guess you see yourself as UBER-l337-kid as you would say... Your just as bad as the OP.

And for the OP my answer is here.

Originally posted by antaras

 

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Originally posted by Mentat
The talent system is lame...  It's not so much the system as the balance. If you want to play end game pve - you HAVE to spec a certain cookie cutter way. If you want to pvp - a different cookie cutter spec is required to succeed. They give you 3 potential talent trees but, you can't choose fun stuff unless you just don't care to be in an end game raiding guild or a group that won't diss you because you aren't specc'd right etc.
I'm tired of not playing charactors the way I want to, that's kinda lame. Worst off is end game elitism. WoW is so damn ridiculously easy that my buddies 8 yr old lvls charactors like it's nothing, every charactor class can easily solo and there is virtually no penalty for death. Being "elite" in WoW's end game is totally lame due to the fact that you're "bragging rights" are based on simply listening to the raid leader and clicking a couple buttons repeatedly.
Another gripe - the community. Sense the game is so so insanely easy, you get a mass of young people who (if you pay attention to the chat channels) make the game alot less fun that it could be with an awesome community. I've been playing Eve Online for about 3 weeks now and the community is frikkin awesome - except when the occasional WoW player signs up for the free trial and complains about the learning curve. It's awesome to be playing a mmo that's fun and weeds out stupid people at the same time.
Apologies for the gripe but, I paid tons of money into this game, I think I'm entitled.

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rofl learn to farm gold to respecc twice a week to pvp and pve
and i think u got unlucky on the guilds u played..
my guild is disciplined but we have good laughs and we have fun raiding we have swp3/9..
i think ur tired of playing because u spend so many time and money playing and u get nowhere and u see tons of sometimes younger ppl than you succeding in the game, but hey just my opinion i mean no offense :)
 

yeah my title is a little off. It probably should read "why I've grown tired of WoW" or something. Regardless - yes you have fun in guilds but, if you want to see the very end game content - the guilds require that you spec a certain way for max dps, or max healing or max tanking etc. It's understandable BUT, blizzard should make all the spec balanced so that it's more fun and there is more diversity. Anyway this is just my reason and opinion.

Well, World of Warcraft have good and bad things like all game, so If you don't like just don't play it. It's Simple.

Originally posted by Mentat

The talent system is lame...  It's not so much the system as the balance. If you want to play end game pve - you HAVE to spec a certain cookie cutter way. If you want to pvp - a different cookie cutter spec is required to succeed. They give you 3 potential talent trees but, you can't choose fun stuff unless you just don't care to be in an end game raiding guild or a group that won't diss you because you aren't specc'd right etc.

I'm tired of not playing charactors the way I want to, that's kinda lame. Worst off is end game elitism. WoW is so damn ridiculously easy that my buddies 8 yr old lvls charactors like it's nothing, every charactor class can easily solo and there is virtually no penalty for death. Being "elite" in WoW's end game is totally lame due to the fact that you're "bragging rights" are based on simply listening to the raid leader and clicking a couple buttons repeatedly.

Another gripe - the community. Sense the game is so so insanely easy, you get a mass of young people who (if you pay attention to the chat channels) make the game alot less fun that it could be with an awesome community. I've been playing Eve Online for about 3 weeks now and the community is frikkin awesome - except when the occasional WoW player signs up for the free trial and complains about the learning curve. It's awesome to be playing a mmo that's fun and weeds out stupid people at the same time.

Apologies for the gripe but, I paid tons of money into this game, I think I'm entitled.

All of your points are correct, and the only apology that's needed is from Blizzard from ruining the MMO genre.  Will take years to repair the field of MMO's and get some decent games going again.

Originally posted by pencilrick

All of your points are correct, and the only apology that's needed is from Blizzard from ruining the MMO genre.  Will take years to repair the field of MMO's and get some decent games going again.

People like you need to stop deluding yourselves in believing Blizzard 'ruined' the MMO genre.   I'm sure Blizzard will apologize for delivering one of the few polished MMOs on the market.  There have been numerous releases in the previous four years, unfortunately most have been stinking piles of garbiage. 

How is that Blizzard's fault? It isn't; had Sigil, SOE, Funcom, and now to some extent EA, delivered comparable games WoW most likely would've deminshed.  You'd think that studios would've learned by now that pushing out semi-finished fantasy themeparks are doomed to failure.  Why play a sub-par version of WoW when well .... you can just play WoW? 

If anything we should thank Blizzard for showing how an MMO can be successful if you deliver a good product. 

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Originally posted by Mentat

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Originally posted by antaras

 

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Originally posted by Mentat
The talent system is lame...  It's not so much the system as the balance. If you want to play end game pve - you HAVE to spec a certain cookie cutter way. If you want to pvp - a different cookie cutter spec is required to succeed. They give you 3 potential talent trees but, you can't choose fun stuff unless you just don't care to be in an end game raiding guild or a group that won't diss you because you aren't specc'd right etc.
I'm tired of not playing charactors the way I want to, that's kinda lame. Worst off is end game elitism. WoW is so damn ridiculously easy that my buddies 8 yr old lvls charactors like it's nothing, every charactor class can easily solo and there is virtually no penalty for death. Being "elite" in WoW's end game is totally lame due to the fact that you're "bragging rights" are based on simply listening to the raid leader and clicking a couple buttons repeatedly.
Another gripe - the community. Sense the game is so so insanely easy, you get a mass of young people who (if you pay attention to the chat channels) make the game alot less fun that it could be with an awesome community. I've been playing Eve Online for about 3 weeks now and the community is frikkin awesome - except when the occasional WoW player signs up for the free trial and complains about the learning curve. It's awesome to be playing a mmo that's fun and weeds out stupid people at the same time.
Apologies for the gripe but, I paid tons of money into this game, I think I'm entitled.

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rofl learn to farm gold to respecc twice a week to pvp and pve
and i think u got unlucky on the guilds u played..
my guild is disciplined but we have good laughs and we have fun raiding we have swp3/9..
i think ur tired of playing because u spend so many time and money playing and u get nowhere and u see tons of sometimes younger ppl than you succeding in the game, but hey just my opinion i mean no offense :)
 

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yeah my title is a little off. It probably should read "why I've grown tired of WoW" or something. Regardless - yes you have fun in guilds but, if you want to see the very end game content - the guilds require that you spec a certain way for max dps, or max healing or max tanking etc. It's understandable BUT, blizzard should make all the spec balanced so that it's more fun and there is more diversity. Anyway this is just my reason and opinion.

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they will introduce dual speccs soon ;)

EVE is so easy now a days - back in the start of the game it was a challenge. And the EVE community is terrible, unless they ban the kids in Goons, pre-goons the EVE community (and game) was the best gaming experience of my life - somethingawful.com/goonswarm ruined the game.

Originally posted by IcoGames

Originally posted by pencilrick

All of your points are correct, and the only apology that's needed is from Blizzard from ruining the MMO genre.  Will take years to repair the field of MMO's and get some decent games going again.

 

People like you need to stop deluding yourselves in believing Blizzard 'ruined' the MMO genre.   I'm sure Blizzard will apologize for delivering one of the few polished MMOs on the market.  There have been numerous releases in the previous four years, unfortunately most have been stinking piles of garbiage. 

How is that Blizzard's fault? It isn't; had Sigil, SOE, Funcom, and now to some extent EA, delivered comparable games WoW most likely would've deminshed.  You'd think that studios would've learned by now that pushing out semi-finished fantasy themeparks are doomed to failure.  Why play a sub-par version of WoW when well .... you can just play WoW? 

If anything we should thank Blizzard for showing how an MMO can be successful if you deliver a good product. 

Agreed. It's mighty convenient to lay the blame of all of the genres problems at Blizzard's feet.

Notice that there's not a hint of criticism at the companies who all put out crap and expect us to enjoy them. It's a strange way to look at things.

Yeah... I don't really see the problem in the OP's statement... obviously you're gonna have to spec somewhat intelligently.  Spending ten talent points on damage mitigation is stupid if you're planning to do raid dps as your main role, and passing over +spell crit or healing power is dumb if you're resto specced... most of the time there's a few different viable ways to build optimally and even occasionally a couple points left over for your discretion.  Obviously this won't be the case so much with classes that do multiple roles, ie paladins druids shammies priests but even then as long as you can do your job well most guilds won't give a rats ass that your heal does 10 points less than optimal per tick.  Hell my old rogue used to be mostly subtlety specced and in a guild that raided kara... I had a stupid build and usually was near the bottom of the DPS chart but nobody cared, we were just there to have a good time, then I respecced on a whim and moved to top DPS with the same gear.  I guess I'm rambling... my point is, if your guild is getting pissed off over a couple talent points that make like 1% difference, maybe you need to look for a new guild.

Originally posted by Mentat

The talent system is lame...  It's not so much the system as the balance. If you want to play end game pve - you HAVE to spec a certain cookie cutter way. If you want to pvp - a different cookie cutter spec is required to succeed. They give you 3 potential talent trees but, you can't choose fun stuff unless you just don't care to be in an end game raiding guild or a group that won't diss you because you aren't specc'd right etc.

I'm tired of not playing charactors the way I want to, that's kinda lame. Worst off is end game elitism. WoW is so damn ridiculously easy that my buddies 8 yr old lvls charactors like it's nothing, every charactor class can easily solo and there is virtually no penalty for death. Being "elite" in WoW's end game is totally lame due to the fact that you're "bragging rights" are based on simply listening to the raid leader and clicking a couple buttons repeatedly.

Another gripe - the community. Sense the game is so so insanely easy, you get a mass of young people who (if you pay attention to the chat channels) make the game alot less fun that it could be with an awesome community. I've been playing Eve Online for about 3 weeks now and the community is frikkin awesome - except when the occasional WoW player signs up for the free trial and complains about the learning curve. It's awesome to be playing a mmo that's fun and weeds out stupid people at the same time.

Apologies for the gripe but, I paid tons of money into this game, I think I'm entitled.

it took you years of playing to figure out you don't like the game anymore? newsflash, after years of playing maybe your just....bored with the game? i couldnt play any game for years without getting bored eventually. you finally got bored with WOW and now your saying the game has flaws...whatever. if you truly hated the talent system you would have stopped playing long ago.

Originally posted by medafor

Originally posted by Mentat

The talent system is lame...  It's not so much the system as the balance. If you want to play end game pve - you HAVE to spec a certain cookie cutter way. If you want to pvp - a different cookie cutter spec is required to succeed. They give you 3 potential talent trees but, you can't choose fun stuff unless you just don't care to be in an end game raiding guild or a group that won't diss you because you aren't specc'd right etc.

I'm tired of not playing charactors the way I want to, that's kinda lame. Worst off is end game elitism. WoW is so damn ridiculously easy that my buddies 8 yr old lvls charactors like it's nothing, every charactor class can easily solo and there is virtually no penalty for death. Being "elite" in WoW's end game is totally lame due to the fact that you're "bragging rights" are based on simply listening to the raid leader and clicking a couple buttons repeatedly.

Another gripe - the community. Sense the game is so so insanely easy, you get a mass of young people who (if you pay attention to the chat channels) make the game alot less fun that it could be with an awesome community. I've been playing Eve Online for about 3 weeks now and the community is frikkin awesome - except when the occasional WoW player signs up for the free trial and complains about the learning curve. It's awesome to be playing a mmo that's fun and weeds out stupid people at the same time.

Apologies for the gripe but, I paid tons of money into this game, I think I'm entitled.

 

it took you years of playing to figure out you don't like the game anymore? newsflash, after years of playing maybe your just....bored with the game? i couldnt play any game for years without getting bored eventually. you finally got bored with WOW and now your saying the game has flaws...whatever. if you truly hated the talent system you would have stopped playing long ago.

Wrong. YOU would have stop playing long ago.

Blizzard didn't ruin the genre, they just made it easier to get into.  They opened it up to the masses..

But, if you don't think the game has flaws, you are kidding yourself.

Originally posted by Random_mage

Blizzard didn't ruin the genre, they just made it easier to get into.  They opened it up to the masses..

But, if you don't think the game has flaws, you are kidding yourself.

Well that's part of why it's so accessible: sure the game has flaws, but generally speaking WoW works and isn't the typically borked MMO.  Had SOE, Sigil, and Funcom delivered I'm sure Blizzard wouldn't be announcing another subscription milestone. 

I'll leave EA  off that list, because frankly WAR is a decent game.  The issue though is that WAR and WoW really aren't that incrementally different.  You could make the same argument with LoTR.

Blizz's success brought tons of companies to make MMOGs of their own, which diluted the playerbase to some degree, spreading the playerbase out so that the genre is actually less lucrative for game companies than it was 5-6 years ago.

Back when it was just UO, EQ, DAOC, AC and a few others, the playerbase that was there was loyal to whatever game they played.  Now a game like WAR or LOTRO can be released, and have a lot of players at launch, to find a few months later that their playerbase is much reduced.  There are so many games that players don't stick with games as much anymore.

It looked to me when the game companies all started making MMOGs and little else around the time after WoW was released as though the industry was going down a bad road, but it's amazing now to see all of the new games in entirely new genres, and indie games, and flash games that are actually good now, and everything that's happening with the industry.  Everything is absolutely blowing wide open as far as what is out there and what's being made.  The gaming hobby is definitely not in decline right now, the growth is actually pretty staggering.