Yep Paragus I had the samething last night when I was trying to do it,I cant put the blame all on mythic though for this not working,Yes the pq area is very small but so is all the pq's in the game and sometimes players are there own worst enemies,last night when the desto guys did show up as soon as 1 or 2 of them were seen a group of about 10 order guys would chase them all over the map and started to camp the warcamp,We kept telling them to allow them to come to the pq area but it fell on deaf ears.

Yes mythic could have made it zone wide but they never and kept to the formula that every pq has and if player's had just stuck to that it could have been alot more fun last night.

Originally posted by Jantis

Here are my comments, and several echo others mentioned.

First the bad -

1.  PQ has no downtime notification.  It should include normal PQ timer, even if we're talking an hour timer rather than just a few minutes.  At least then everyone would know they were in the right place.  If you don't want to give too much away, then suggest at least displaying "Restarting Soon" instead of an exact time.  Just give the user a notification that they are indeed in the correct location, but the PQ is not currently active.
2. PQ exemption boundaries appear to be around normal BO/Keeps.  Remove those exemptions.  Current system allows for exploitation, where players can stand within the exempted zones and kill others that are in the PQ area but still get credit, while those within the PQ cannot get credit for killing players in the exempt areas.  Make the entire RVR lake part of the PQ.
3. PQ Rewards are far too few.  When there are three warbands worth of players rolling against eight bags... you've got to be kidding.  It was nice to see a gold bag and a purple bag in the mix, but the total number of bags should reflect a legitimate portion of the number of participants, evne if it is just green bags.

Now the good -

1. I had a lot of fun.  This is what has been missing in Warhammer.  I expected WAR mechanics to entice mass battles, even at the lower tiers and I unquestionably support making this a permanent fixture.
2. I don't really have a #2, because my first item is really the whole point in playing any MMORPG.

I suggest not only making this a permanent fixture, but rotate the PQ to different lakes.  Each week or even each month, swap up the location of the PQ so that it keeps things a little more exciting and also encourages a greater experience.  This worked for WoW with it's rotational battleground reward system and should work for the RvR lakes as well.

I am looking forward to more innovative ideas to encourage RvR Lake interaction.

I think Jantis hit it on the head.

Originally posted by streea

Both my husband (T4) and I (T2) went to try and take part of these PQs.

Both were failures.

Destruction had managed to camp the entire T4 area and with not enough Order high into T4, they held it all night.

In T2, wandered through the entire area and had a lot of trouble finding where the PQ area was supposed to be. Once I found the PQ area, I wandered some more, all while RvR flagged, for about 30 minutes... and there was not a single player anywhere. This was because that PQ had finished and was going through its invisible X hours cooldown period. The thing was, there was no way to know where the PQ was, when it would start again, or even why I was there.

Now this isn't to discredit Jon or his experiences in the least. What I'm saying though is that, in my experience, this event seems too rushed and lacking. I think events like these need to be more spread out, or at least have "major" locations as well as "minor" ones where people can choose between clashing in huge armies or simply sticking to smaller groups to get things done.

Wow just the opposite on the RvR server Order had Destructiuon camped  for last 3  days in Troll country many more order of the lv 16 to 30  range it seems and this wasnt just random  times  was most of the day and into the early a.m. hrs.

Originally posted by AranStormah

We just finished the T3 Event in Black Fire Pass and it had problems too.

The PQ area seemed to extend approx 75% of the lake, which is acceptable, but the main action was focused between the relativly close Warcamps, and resulted in a dozen Order farming a full warband of Destruction on the Order Guards. It was impossible to organize Destruction. Every time an Order BW baited, the melee went for him and we got 2 kills while their guards slaughtered entire groups.

I understand that the point is to play smarter than allowing them to farm us like that, but it does leave a bitter taste in the mouth when you're supposed to have fun regardless of win/loss. Easiest fix would be to exclude guard killing blows as counting towards the PQ. More complicated fix would be to center the PQ around some sort of focal point away from the warcamps.

Also, apparently Order spawned some sort of Epic Nurgling which they had to kill, but Destruction killed it instead. I dunno what happened from there, but I never saw any chest for Order. 

Yea you killed the last stage mob so they couldnt win the quest.

Nice write up, Jon.

I play Order on Sylvania (currently in T2) and had a blast!  At times, there were so many people on each side, it was mass confusion, but it was FUN.  All during the PQ, a bunch of us would run and defend the keep or cap the BO's, so it was almost two objectives in one.  I spent the entire evening in the RvR lakes because it was so active.  We had to travel in groups to avoid being overtaken by wandering Destros.

The only problem we had was the PQ boundaries.  We had to make kills in Troll Country for them to count, so it meant that we couldn't rush Destro too far out of the zone.  Lots of people either didn't want to worry about it or didn't understand, so the PQ took much longer than it should have.  Kinda funny seeing some not-so-bright Wizards trying to tank on the front lines.

All and all, it was a great success for me.  With that many people in the RvR lakes, it made battles seem epic and there was lots of fun for all.  Met some great people and had a ton of laughs.

I think overall, it was a great idea from Mythic to pull people into the RvR areas.  I know I'll be hanging out there much more often.

I play on Chaos Waste a med/med server and here is my opinion. I think if they added some sort of in game voice system it would go a long way to helping overall communications. There were a lot of people that wanted to get into the fight and could not find out where the fight was. I could not tell you how many people were wanting invites and getting no reponse. When I finally got there it reminded me much of those old days of  WOW and the huge fights at Tarren Mill before battlegrounds came out. I will say it was not clear where the line was between order and chaos where you got experience I think that needs to be more defined. But here is the most dragging feature that comes up in any PVP group situatuions is  the players themselves. I have no idea how to fix that problem is you have one or two or three people all trying to tell everyone else how to play. They do this by yelling and screaming and berating other players telling them how stupid they are for not listening to them.  It sure would be great if our side actually used army tactics line up tanks in front and casters in back and everyone move together. Is that ever going to happen? no. People need to remember that this is a game, entertainment it is no like real life where if I screw up I might get someone else really hurt or killed. But if I want to rush the caster and get myself killed that is my entertainment.

Originally posted by tkobo

Strange....... Why does no one find it odd, that the devs of a game supposedly built for and around RvR,have to hold live events to get their players to partake in RvR ?

Personally i think rvr will begin to take off when more casual players reach end game.  When there are enough bored level 40s to actually compete with one another we will see more action.  Right now there are still a lot of people attempting to level and scenarios are far more appealing and convenient than rvr in that regard.  I believe the reason so many people are harsh on warhammer for rvr is because it is the only mmo that comes to mind, my mind atleast, that actively encourages lower leveled players to participate in pvp.  This is ussually reserved for end game players.

I would love to see them test different variations on xp gains through pvp.  Perhaps test making scenarios give double renown but little to no xp while orvr and questing gives double, or even triple the current xp. 

Not to compare everything to WoW but when its players first reached 60, on my server atleast, everyone starting with exploring the current end game instances, scholo etc. and then when we got bored their was constant random raids on tauren mill crossroads etc.  BGs didnt even really kill it until they implimented dishonor kills which was the final nail in the coffin for WoWs world pvp.  Atleast War seems to encourage orvr compared to its competition.

Originally posted by Suraknar

Well, the question of Open RvR is a difficult and the reasons for the Lakes being empty are Multifold.

Permit me to share a couple, the major ones, that I got from people and I have observed in my time since Open Beta to now and as a Guild Leader.

#1 Reason, is Performance, many people are having performance issues with this game, Open RvR for them is simply unplayable and we are talking about people with 64bit single core computers Gforce 7000-8000 series video cards and DDR 400 Mghz memory, 1-2 gigs. It is disheartening to many that want to participate and just can't. The game is not optimised for fluidity yet, it just overloads PC's, and even higher end computers have issues, I myself am on a Triple Core (AMD) with 1066 Mgz Memory and Gf9600, and I still, since beta play with Lowest Settings (Albeit I can put on all effects and have maximum viewing distance) yet that is it, no lighting no Specular not even Grass. And in a protracted RvR battle my framerate slowly drops to 6 or a CtD insues, I still have to restart the game every 1.5h of play.

So performance is a big issue for many, and it keep them off the RvR lakes.

#2 Reason, is Scenarios. Scenarios trump Open RvR, it is a faster way, and a more accessible way for people to have fun PvPing and Devellop their Characters. Given the choice between queuing for a Scenario or trying to Coordinate with 100 people of different guilds from the Same realm, people just choose the Scenario.

#3 Reason, is RvR Perception. It seems that many people just don't associate RvR with PvP. And the way that the Game rewards Open RvR participation is more conductive to PVE activities rather than PvP activities.

Every single night there is guilds and warbands that form, on both Realms, and just avoid a direct clash with eachother taking turns Assaulting Empty fortresses and Keeps and "Raiding" Boss NPC's for a chance to roll on Purple Gear.

The PvP fun comes from Scenarios anyways, the Drops from Killing Keep Lords, which help one to be better...in the Scenarios for a better ranking in the damage meter.

These are the three major reasons why Lake RvR is not more busy than it is or is not taking Off.

---

Possible solutions? There are many actually.

Personally I think, first of all that Renown should come from Open RvR only. Second Gear Rewards should be made considerably better, with set bonuses as well, and these should either be obtainable from Renown vendors or Drop from slain players at much higher frequency that it is now inside the RvR lakes only.

No more Rolls for Gear from Keep Lords. Instead what Keep Lords or Successfully assaulting a Keep or a Fortress should do is give Trophies and Brag Rights. That guilds and Individuals can display for their acheivement, and these can also be better depending on if the Keep/Fortress was defended by players or not. If it was an empty Keep it should not reward anything other than permitting to complete the quest from the Capitals and the Tome Unlocks as well as Realm Contribution.

It could even be rewarding Bestial tokens. But no gear in the fashion it does right now.

Scenarios on the other hand, should reward Influence and experience rather than Renown and Experience. They could become the PvP way to obtain Influence which gives access to Influence Gear, as an alternative to Renown gear, and in the same spirit that WAR was built upon catering to both styles of play under the RvR premise, and common goal.

Puting all that together, it would mean that Renown only comes from open Conflict between the Realms, coincidently those that participate are also going to be those that get rewarded with the  better gear.

Armaggedon, will result, and maybe, just maybe, tales of 3 days long Sieges will spill over the Internet calling upon all avalable warriors to aid in the effort, and Fun.

Right now as it is, most people would laugh at the thoght of a Siege lasting 3 days, and it really has to do with the prevailing mentality result of the trends and habits of most players today.

To be just, the game is still in its infancy, and hasn't been around for much either, so hope is far from being lost. Much can change for the best, and 1.1 is just around teh corner.

I agree.  The way the rewards work now for keep lords is lame.  The fact that you have to defeat the keep lord on the chance that there may be a gold bag and on the chance that you happen to win it in order to complete your tier set is ridiculous.  Most people I know have out leveled the armor set by the time they actually win the thing.

I  also have to agree - this event is a bust and another clear example that Warhammer just isnt that fun until you hit max level. From what I heard from guildies, T4 was hopping. But where I was at in T3 - completely dead. A handful of destruction fighting a handful of order until everyone gets bored and quits.

Oh, and the event also completely brought out the jackass in a lot of people. Ok, I got lured too close to a hero and died. Yes, it was a dumb mistake and I shouldn't have followed the guy  into the bushes where I couldn't see. But I was cursed at for 5 min over it. Why? Because I had gotten in the way of people getting their precious little goblin masks or witch cloaks.

Holiday events should offer plenty of PVE and mini-game content - not simply content that requires players on both sides to show up. Also, give out at least a few goodies relatively easily - I feel like most of the stuff for this event is an epic raid grind, only with PVP content.

Last night, it was so boring I logged off and went over to Guild Wars for the Mad King Thorn event. Yes, it's totally cheesy, but at least I got some cool stuff and had fun.

I have to say the event was a blast for me.  I ran the rvr PQ 5 times, tier 2.  It would have been nice to know where the boundaries were, but the action was fairly constant.  I think it needed comparable numbers on both sides to work right, one of the times we ran it, order outnumbered destruction by a fg+.  This one ended up an order win, but we had them pushed back against their warcamp the whole time.

I don't really care about the masks and things, although they're funny.  Some nice loot did drop from the pq though, saw purple and gold bags a couple times.  Closest I got was placing 7th, and then rolling 21st hehe.

Anyway, good hunting and I hope everyone has fun somewhere, I'm really enjoying this game.

I spent some time in the T3 RvR PQ, and it was pretty active on Azazel server. I think that over all it was a good idea, but it had some flaws in execution. The only really solid complaint I had during the whole thing was that having two fairly even sized armies facing off in RvR, once you had a winning side there was no way to keep the other army off your backs long enough to loot the reward chest. My Squigherder came in 3rd in one of the events and I never got my reward bag for it. I am just hoping that I can run a PvE PQ and have the bag pop there. If I can actually find a PQ with enought people who are not just farming up enough renown to move on to the next chapter, but the discussion of empty PQ's could fil a topic on its own. All I am saying here is, you give people an inch to be petty and mean and they will push it as far as they can. Makes me sad, but I actually had to walk away from the event when I started feeling genuine animosity toward the Order players. What makes me even more sad is I found out my own side was doing the same screwed up thing earlier that same day, which makes it hard for me to take a moral high ground.

Nice review of the event and nice suggestions.

I just sent Mythic feedback based on your suggestion (PQ on all the ORvR lake).  In the feedback I put too that they should consider some perma PQ too so that will be another incentive for people to go into ORvR.

I sent them feeedback again requesting them to consider to put an in game voice in the game.  I think MJ said in VN that is not a minor thing to do and they will consider in the future... he didnt make any promise, of course.  But more feedback about a subject, more Mythic's attention get focused on that subject.

I think other people should sent Mythic feedback too, if they have suggestions or like other people's ideas.

Originally posted by tkobo

So your telling me the people who bought this game didnt want to RvR ?

Isnt it more likely ,they wanted to and hence BOUGHT the game ,but the game itself ,made them NOT want to ?

That the design was so incredibly screwed up, that it made people who bought the game with the purpose OF RvRing, not want to in this game ?

Call me silly, but that seems alot more likely to me.

 

Yes they did and do want to rvr ...but ...BUT..scenarios are not rvr.   But again...EVERYONE is doing that.  So if everyone is doing that...rvr isn't happening.  Empty rvr lakes = full scenarios....scenarios that keep popping soon as the last one finishes.

Mythic did too good a job with scenarios, they are very attractive,  they resemble the pvp in a box battlegrounds of Wow "fame".....and they feel like home to people who come from that game.  The renown and exps rewards for scenarios, cannot be beat by what you get in rvr.

Its a danged shame...

So Mythic cut their nose off to spite their face when they made scenarios so rewarding..so easy to jump into.

Rvr is trademarked...did you know that?  hehe  Realm vs Realm (tm) belongs to EAMythic.....and here we have Warhammer: Age of Scenarios.

I too hope Mythic implements something like the Witching Night setup for the rvr lakes, to encourage more folks to get out in the rvr lakes and have fun.

There's still time Mythic..get your thinking caps on..and get that rvr looking MORE attractive than the scenarios.....please :D

Cend