MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood writes this analysis of the new PQs introduced as a part of Warhammer Online's first Live Event, The Witching Night.

The new PQs aren’t your standard three stage wonders, scattered across the realm. These PQs pit realm against realm and are located in four RvR lakes (one for each Tier) spread across the racial pairings. These new quests would seem to be serving a double purpose for Mythic. First, and probably most obviously, they provide players with something new and exciting to do within the Live Event.

The second purpose of the new PQs would seem to address an issue that many players have been bringing up since launch: empty RvR lakes. For whatever reason, RvR lakes simply haven’t taken off (at least from my experience in the first two tiers of play) the way that they were intended as a focal point for players. We could spend an entire article discussing the hows and whys of the problem, and so for now let us simply say that a problem existed. It is a problem that Mythic has addressed recently by increasing the amount of experience earned for kills within the zone, a move specifically designed to entice more people to participate in the game’s open RvR.

Check out the PQ Analysis.

Both my husband (T4) and I (T2) went to try and take part of these PQs.

Both were failures.

Destruction had managed to camp the entire T4 area and with not enough Order high into T4, they held it all night.

In T2, wandered through the entire area and had a lot of trouble finding where the PQ area was supposed to be. Once I found the PQ area, I wandered some more, all while RvR flagged, for about 30 minutes... and there was not a single player anywhere. This was because that PQ had finished and was going through its invisible X hours cooldown period. The thing was, there was no way to know where the PQ was, when it would start again, or even why I was there.

Now this isn't to discredit Jon or his experiences in the least. What I'm saying though is that, in my experience, this event seems too rushed and lacking. I think events like these need to be more spread out, or at least have "major" locations as well as "minor" ones where people can choose between clashing in huge armies or simply sticking to smaller groups to get things done.

Originally posted by streea

Both my husband (T4) and I (T2) went to try and take part of these PQs.

Both were failures.

Destruction had managed to camp the entire T4 area and with not enough Order high into T4, they held it all night.

In T2, wandered through the entire area and had a lot of trouble finding where the PQ area was supposed to be. Once I found the PQ area, I wandered some more, all while RvR flagged, for about 30 minutes... and there was not a single player anywhere. This was because that PQ had finished and was going through its invisible X hours cooldown period. The thing was, there was no way to know where the PQ was, when it would start again, or even why I was there.

Now this isn't to discredit Jon or his experiences in the least. What I'm saying though is that, in my experience, this event seems too rushed and lacking. I think events like these need to be more spread out, or at least have "major" locations as well as "minor" ones where people can choose between clashing in huge armies or simply sticking to smaller groups to get things done.

Hmm. I'm sorry you had trouble finding the place... I wonder are you on a low pop server? Not trying to be snarky, genuinely interested.

As for the side stuff... The live event itself actually has that. You can hunt down these specialty creatures :) Since it wasn't part of the PQ, I didn't really mention it here, but it's out there.

Originally posted by Stradden

Hmm. I'm sorry you had trouble finding the place... I wonder are you on a low pop server? Not trying to be snarky, genuinely interested.

As for the side stuff... The live event itself actually has that. You can hunt down these specialty creatures :) Since it wasn't part of the PQ, I didn't really mention it here, but it's out there.

Nope, it's a high pop server (still gives the warning every time I switch back to the server from my destro server).

I actually did do a little side stuff... I found a spawnpoint for four ghosts and killed about 20 of them, and even got a mask (I now look like a tengu). But I... wanted to kill destro players

Yep i also went to have a look at this today but was quickly stopped in my tracks,the desto guys had the roads out of the order warcamp set up with ambush groups,we finally managed to get some sort of order warband going but man alot of desto guys must have had the day off.

Not whinning too much about it as it is a rvr zone but I am pretty sure this is not what mythic had in mind for this event.

I participated in this event last night and there was more RVR than I could have imagined.  I play on the side of Order on my server and all I can say is it was intense throughout.  I am currently in T3 and playing on the Vortex server.  I do agree that there were no clear boundaries and so it was hard to tell when I was in the PQ zone or whether the kills counted towards the PQ.  Also, I found it hard to know if we were ahead or whatever.  Most of  the time I was trying to kill or be killed.  Literally a sea of red in terms of enemy players.  With that, we managed to win the PQ twice though I did not get any loot.  Even with a Silver medal once I placed 36th on the rolls grr... in between we took BO's, attempted to take the Keep (close but no cigar) and fought destro constantly.  After 12am I had to log since RL and work in the morning was calling.  I logged in this morning to see that at some point I received the RvR lootable armor piece for the Devastator's Kit.  That was a nice bonus.  In all the mayhem last night I had not even noticed.  Overall, I'd say I was pleased with the amount of player participation and the attempt by Mythic to get something like this done.  I would hope that they learn and incorporate more incentive besides xp gains to encourage this kind of carnage from time to time.

Cheers!

I am on Gorfang and T4, medium server.  It was he same players of order vs destruction.  This is majorly BORING!  Low Rvr through the night I was on for 5 hours.   Closed my account and taking a break from mmos

Here are my comments, and several echo others mentioned.

First the bad -

1.  PQ has no downtime notification.  It should include normal PQ timer, even if we're talking an hour timer rather than just a few minutes.  At least then everyone would know they were in the right place.  If you don't want to give too much away, then suggest at least displaying "Restarting Soon" instead of an exact time.  Just give the user a notification that they are indeed in the correct location, but the PQ is not currently active.
2. PQ exemption boundaries appear to be around normal BO/Keeps.  Remove those exemptions.  Current system allows for exploitation, where players can stand within the exempted zones and kill others that are in the PQ area but still get credit, while those within the PQ cannot get credit for killing players in the exempt areas.  Make the entire RVR lake part of the PQ.
3. PQ Rewards are far too few.  When there are three warbands worth of players rolling against eight bags... you've got to be kidding.  It was nice to see a gold bag and a purple bag in the mix, but the total number of bags should reflect a legitimate portion of the number of participants, evne if it is just green bags.

Now the good -

1. I had a lot of fun.  This is what has been missing in Warhammer.  I expected WAR mechanics to entice mass battles, even at the lower tiers and I unquestionably support making this a permanent fixture.
2. I don't really have a #2, because my first item is really the whole point in playing any MMORPG.

I suggest not only making this a permanent fixture, but rotate the PQ to different lakes.  Each week or even each month, swap up the location of the PQ so that it keeps things a little more exciting and also encourages a greater experience.  This worked for WoW with it's rotational battleground reward system and should work for the RvR lakes as well.

I am looking forward to more innovative ideas to encourage RvR Lake interaction.

Seems to be fairly hit or miss then from the comments... I'll be trying again tonight, so maybe I'll have better luck.

Strange....... Why does no one find it odd, that the devs of a game supposedly built for and around RvR,have to hold live events to get their players to partake in RvR ?

Originally posted by tkobo

Strange....... Why does no one find it odd, that the devs of a game supposedly built for and around RvR,have to hold live events to get their players to partake in RvR ?

Um, I think that everyone here finds it a little bit odd. I think that's the point and actually a pretty major point in the article. That's what happens though, sometimes when a game launches, crtain things don't resonate like the devs expected.

We just finished the T3 Event in Black Fire Pass and it had problems too.

The PQ area seemed to extend approx 75% of the lake, which is acceptable, but the main action was focused between the relativly close Warcamps, and resulted in a dozen Order farming a full warband of Destruction on the Order Guards. It was impossible to organize Destruction. Every time an Order BW baited, the melee went for him and we got 2 kills while their guards slaughtered entire groups.

I understand that the point is to play smarter than allowing them to farm us like that, but it does leave a bitter taste in the mouth when you're supposed to have fun regardless of win/loss. Easiest fix would be to exclude guard killing blows as counting towards the PQ. More complicated fix would be to center the PQ around some sort of focal point away from the warcamps.

Also, apparently Order spawned some sort of Epic Nurgling which they had to kill, but Destruction killed it instead. I dunno what happened from there, but I never saw any chest for Order. 

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Originally posted by Stradden

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Originally posted by tkobo

Strange....... Why does no one find it odd, that the devs of a game supposedly built for and around RvR,have to hold live events to get their players to partake in RvR ?

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Um, I think that everyone here finds it a little bit odd. I think that's the point and actually a pretty major point in the article. That's what happens though, sometimes when a game launches, crtain things don't resonate like the devs expected.
 

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I think the operative idea here is that the open world RvR is lacking, because the scenario RvR is rocking pretty much 24/7. It's easier to "find" an enemy in the scenario RvR so that's where players go. That, and the rewards for scenario play are so much higher.

Originally posted by tkobo

Strange....... Why does no one find it odd, that the devs of a game supposedly built for and around RvR,have to hold live events to get their players to partake in RvR ?

My server has no problem with RvR.  Pretty close to every night we duke it out in the RvR Lakes.  :)

T3 on Iron Rock last night was incredible.  it was at least 50vs50 for almost 3 hours straight. 

Like another had mentioned, the action was centered between the two warcamps and was a constant tidal shift pushing each other back and forth their respective guards.  Bugman's Brewery changed hands a couple times during the event and we also had a keep defense in that time.

My biggest issue with the actual PQ portion was the length of time in between them.  Just how long is it supposed to be?  I got there right after the last one had ended and it didn't start up again while I was there.  About 45 mins of my 3 hours was spent  defending the keep so perhaps I just happened to miss it while in the zone? 

Originally posted by tkobo

Strange....... Why does no one find it odd, that the devs of a game supposedly built for and around RvR,have to hold live events to get their players to partake in RvR ?

Its not strange.  You have to remember, since Ultima Online's PVP (circa 1997-1998), MMO's after that have focused more on PVE, questing and raids. 

People have to get used to PVP being an integral part of the game again.  Even in War, you see alot of people sticking to PVE, PQ's and soloing. 

This will change over time once people start feeling the rush of excitement PVP offers.  Now they realize they have to offer more incentive to PVP other than killing real players.  Though for me thats all I need :).  The rewards and PQ in the RVR are bonus.

I havent had this much fun in an MMO since early UO and early SWG.  Best game out there right now, hands down. 

The IRON ROCK server was on fire last night, like a poster above noted.  I bascially fell asleep at the keyboard last night from fighting all night.  Heck , even after the PQ ended, the war went on to the objective and defending the keep.  Even when I logged off at 1am, battles were still going on. 

How is this only a "little" odd ?

Thats like saying the titanic took on a little water...

OR

The sun might be a little hot.....

The game was BUILT around and for RvR....And yet the design doesnt make people WANT TO RvR .....

Originally posted by tkobo

The game was BUILT around and for RvR....And yet the design doesnt make people WANT TO RvR .....

 

People need to WANT to RvR before the game can make them. If the game FORCES RvR, expect a lot fewer people to be playing.

I've been into 2 or 3 RvR lakes to do PVE stuff and except for New Emskrank ( Nordland ), the others are too big and I rarely see anyone there. Nordland is always contested and there is always PVP going on there. Some days it's very difficult to get any PVE done there, so I help with the defenses.

Compare that to the Plain of Bone. I have seen 1 person each, on 2 of the times, I've been there. Been through there on about 5 chars. Once I was on my DE DoK and the other guy ran away. The other time I was on my HE Swordmaster and the other guy was trying to kill NPC's at the Order held Altar of Khaine, so I killed him. ( His lvl 8 Sorc vs my lvl 6 SM. ) He had started his attacks while I was already there.

So your telling me the people who bought this game didnt want to RvR ?

Isnt it more likely ,they wanted to and hence BOUGHT the game ,but the game itself ,made them NOT want to ?

That the design was so incredibly screwed up, that it made people who bought the game with the purpose OF RvRing, not want to in this game ?

Call me silly, but that seems alot more likely to me.

Originally posted by tkobo

So your telling me the people who bought this game didnt want to RvR ?

Isnt it more likely ,they wanted to and hence BOUGHT the game ,but the game itself ,made them NOT want to ?

That the design was so incredibly screwed up, that it made people who bought the game with the purpose OF RvRing, not want to in this game ?

Call me silly, but that seems alot more likely to me.

 

I think more accurately, people wanted pvp. However, when they saw how easy it was to get more epic battles in scenarios, they all went there.

It's not fun wandering around a rvr lake and not seeing anyone. It is more fun to immediately be put into queues and get immediate (and for the most part balanced) battles.

I've loved the scenarios because they are a blast. If I'm going to pay money it better be worth it. If there aren't people doing rvr (and I've only done a little as there isn't a lot) then I'm going where the action is.

I think others have had the same thought as well.

guess i personaly didn't understand RVR and I wanted world PVP (Tarren Mill/Southshore battles)which as i have found out are 2 different beast

ran 1/2 dozen scenarios and remembered why I left WOW 2 years ago after dishonor kills finished off what was left of any world pvp in the game

pve in this game i would rather not think  about

1. It depends on your server. They are going to consolidate the lower population servers with a free character transfer to a higher population server.
2. Scenarios are fun, RvR is fun, PQ is good and fun with a good group. Then you have other quest, so that means that there are a lot of people doing different things.
3. Land masses are big.
4. Being in a guild does more RvR than PUGs. If you not in a guild, your fault.
5. It’s a new game. People are still checking each side and each class.
6. It’s a new game. Again people are learning tactics now. In several more months there will be Epic battle of which you have ever seen.

I was in the T2 area last night with my lower leveled Sorcerer, and had a blast

People do want to do RvR, but there are other things. This games isn’t going to die tomorrow, we have lots of time. And from my experience last night, its only going to get better.
 

Originally posted by tkobo

Strange....... Why does no one find it odd, that the devs of a game supposedly built for and around RvR,have to hold live events to get their players to partake in RvR ?

It's probably difficult to anticipate exactly what your player base is going to gravitate too, and they miscalculated. During beta testing, people RvR'd more because, since they had no incentive to invest in progressing a temporary character, they concentrated on having fun. Once they purchased an account, they became more concerned with character progression, which is currently NOT sufficiently rewarded from RvR. Yes, I know, these forums are full of geniuses that can tell us in perfect hindsight how predictable that was, but unfortunately for all of us, none of them are designing and publishing games. Mythic has publically stated that they are aware of the lack of RvR and have plans to make it "the place to be," and hopefully that will happen soon. IMO, putting live events, PvE content and other rewards into the RvR lakes will do the trick. Once you manage to get into a big battle, it's insanely fun!

My comment is somewhat off topic but was touched upon in the article.  Scenarios are killing rvr areas.  That is why some rvr areas seem empty most of the time. 

With scenarios you're quickly thrust into a group, no need to find one and there are always lots of enemies to fight.  With rvr areas you're left on your own to search for groups and hopefully find someone to fight.  There is more "work" involved with rvr areas.

How mythic managed to overlook a potential problem between people choosing scenarios over rvr areas is suprising to me.  They couldn't foresee this problem coming?

I tried the PQs last night. I had no fun. I went back to scenarioes. That's were I have fun. I used to cry about scenarioes being too rewarding, also. Well, it sure beats RvR, imo. I'd rather grind scenarioes, than killing the same orc in a different custome 1000 times. I just wish Mythic would wake up and do battlegroup servers like WoW.