yes this is a rant im sorry, but looking at WaR its clear that Mythic didnt even try....at first i thought they were trying to innovate but its clear they didnt try to be above average....they were fine with being average and even below average. I know alot of you arent going to agree with me but thats fine and i understand. i payed my $50 bucks and its my right to either praise or critisize the game. this is the latter.

This is not a troll post i just find it sad that Mythic didnt try to go above and beyond any other MMO. they were totally fine with being on par or below in every aspect of their game.

Any feature in WaR has been done before and done better in the *past*. a new current MMO should try to at least be better than whats has been out for years right? if not what is the point of progress?

with WaR there has been zero progress in the MMO genre. PQ's are about the closest thing but even Mythic didnt do a good job. Are you telling me that 2nd gen devs best idea they could come up with is the flawed and repeative PQ system? really? thats it? come on guys!

Graphics: yeah yeah Gameplay over graphics but games such as Call of Duty 4 prove that you can have great graphics that can run on a wide range of systems if your engine is up to snuff. Mythic didnt even bother and were fine with creating a MMO with lack luster visuals. if you played a MMO, no area in WaR will make you go wow thats cool and different ! its all pretty ho hum with the exception of the greenskin area. Many will agree that the graphics in WaR are enough to get the job done...and thats it...they are right on par with getting the job done they didnt try to push that bar any higher at all.

Sound: just enough to get by, no music, not even music for captial cites. Mythic didnt try to at all in this area. they were fine with below average. does it have a sound? ok check next !

animations: walk up and attack Mythic felt that was good enough once again. None of your moves make you go *wow cool !* just throw some sparkles on the weapons when they strike and it was good enough. Mythic was just fine with making MMO combat look exactly like it did in 2004. 

RvR. seriously just a keep in the middle of nowhere? why not allow destro/order players to command a huge dragon like in the CG movie to break down the doors of the keep? seriously the best you could come up with is a generic keep and a random keep lord?  why not let players acutally create the keep so people acutally cared when they were taken? so little was done in this area. Hey give players a big plot of land and flag them ! thats all you could come up with? No Air strikes? no creatures to command? no NPC rushes? no sieges vehicles? i just dont get why they didnt try harder.

weapons/armor: 19 gear sets per class sounds like alot but its not when you get every single one of them in a linear line in a linear order, every single time no matter who you are.  are you telling me you could only come up with 2 sytles of 2 hand axe for my black orc up to level 30? thats it? mythic dropped it huge on this one.

PQ: i like the idea but, the luster wears off fast when all of them are set up the same exact way. a reivewer summed it up perfectly. these are basically a poor mans dungeon. take a plot of land throw waves of mobs and repeat it 4-5 times in a tier....next?

PvE mobs: sure trolls and wyverns are nice but you spend a huge part of your game life fighting dull models of humans and humoid type monster. all of which have horrible horrible AI. tank and spank fit every single mob you fight.

charater creation: once again below average was fine for mythic. recent games have tried to give you more and more choice on how you make your charater. Mythic didnt mind making a huge step backwards in this aspect. Not one once of effort was put into this to make it different.

Polish? you know i say its very easy to have the title" most polished MMO" when its clear mythic took so many shortcuts. 

alright im done

and, what?

So you pointed out a bunch of stuff you don't like about Warhammer, it's not WaR by the way.

What made you feel that by buying Warhammer online, that it would revolutionize your mmo gaming experience? the only game with actual claims to be "revolutionary" was AoC.

Sounds like you set yourself up for failure and set yourself up to have your expectations killed.

So please, take your pathetic complaining to a shrink.

You're right in the fact that the game needs more of everything when it comes to variety of mobs, gear, quests etc.  That I hope will come with time.

I cannot however agree with the idea of more NPC's in RvR zones.  There's nothing I hate more than NPC's deciding a pvp battle. 

The keeps need longer timers so conquering armies don't see their conquest retaken 15 minutes later when they've moved on to take something else and I think it would be great if each faction could do things to make the keeps stronger (more hitpoints on doors, keep lords etc)

There are in fact siege weapons, they're not terribly exciting, but again, the game needs more and hopefully that comes with time.

As of right now, my only problem with the game is that it focuses too much on scenarios and not ORvR.  Bigger RvR lakes with more keeps and longer timers coupled with bonuses for holding an area would help with this.

Originally posted by kazson

yes this is a rant im sorry, but looking at WaR its clear that Mythic didnt even try....at first i thought they were trying to innovate but its clear they didnt try to be above average....they were fine with being average and even below average. I know alot of you arent going to agree with me but thats fine and i understand. i payed my $50 bucks and its my right to either praise or critisize the game. this is the latter.

Dunno what articles you ever read but the devs were pretty clear it wasn't some super innovative game they were going from an evolution standpoint and in many places they succeeded.

This is not a troll post i just find it sad that Mythic didnt try to go above and beyond any other MMO. they were totally fine with being on par or below in every aspect of their game.

Their game is RvR centered...and were pretty clear their PvE aspects were not a major focus.

Any feature in WaR has been done before and done better in the *past*. a new current MMO should try to at least be better than whats has been out for years right? if not what is the point of progress?

Really someone else did Public Quests?  Sorry Daily's from Wow do not count as public quests as they are 'daily' and not constant public events.   I dont know of any other game that has Public Dungeons in the style that WAR has either.  I guess you didnt' reach Gunbad??  Their public Dungeon system is definitly unique.

with WaR there has been zero progress in the MMO genre. PQ's are about the closest thing but even Mythic didnt do a good job. Are you telling me that 2nd gen devs best idea they could come up with is the flawed and repeative PQ system? really? thats it? come on guys!

 how can you say they didn't do a good job on PQ's they're awsome...sure if you only do the ones on the beaten path and there's no one around they're kinda meh but if you find the Red Con'd hard ones .. geezus they're awsome especially the loot drops.  PQ's are meant for you to do them once or twice and move on to the next one there's upwards to 3 pq's per chapter usually by the time you do all 3 atleast once you ahve a full influence bar and plenty of loot of course you have to finish them.

Graphics: yeah yeah Gameplay over graphics but games such as Call of Duty 4 prove that you can have great graphics that can run on a wide range of systems if your engine is up to snuff. Mythic didnt even bother and were fine with creating a MMO with lack luster visuals. if you played a MMO, no area in WaR will make you go wow thats cool and different ! its all pretty ho hum with the exception of the greenskin area. Many will agree that the graphics in WaR are enough to get the job done...and thats it...they are right on par with getting the job done they didnt try to push that bar any higher at all.

 So can you play CoD4 with 60+ players on screen duking it out with each other over a keep with siege weapons?  No..Didn't think so please try again.  WAR graphics are perfectly stylized to look like the Warhammer World and uses some rather nice up to date features without going Over Board or making it look like a ocmpletely different game world.

Sound: just enough to get by, no music, not even music for captial cites. Mythic didnt try to at all in this area. they were fine with below average. does it have a sound? ok check next !

 There is music in the game its actually really gorgeous orchestra music...I think the system is borked though the music doesn't always repeat properly.

animations: walk up and attack Mythic felt that was good enough once again. None of your moves make you go *wow cool !* just throw some sparkles on the weapons when they strike and it was good enough. Mythic was just fine with making MMO combat look exactly like it did in 2004. 

 personal preference..to be honest i'm to busy fighting to worry about if I look cool with animations.  honestly you graphics obsessed people have no idea about how much fancy animations clog up the works when large scale battles are going on.

RvR. seriously just a keep in the middle of nowhere? why not allow destro/order players to command a huge dragon like in the CG movie to break down the doors of the keep? seriously the best you could come up with is a generic keep and a random keep lord?  why not let players acutally create the keep so people acutally cared when they were taken? so little was done in this area. Hey give players a big plot of land and flag them ! thats all you could come up with? No Air strikes? no creatures to command? no NPC rushes? no sieges vehicles? i just dont get why they didnt try harder.

Because this an RvR large scale combat game..are you familiar with Shadowbane and its ultimate lagness and serious issues that enused for years by allowing player made combat?  Sorry a game that has THAT much player created content would have to be void of any other content to work properly or be completely instanced ... AoC and Shadow bane are perfect examples.   Mythic chose the right path that allows everyone to be able to participate and enjoy the game something AoC and Shadowbane fail to do.  Their systems pretty much keep you from enjoying the more touted aspects of the game if your not apart of a guild or a massive association from the moment you log into the game.   You've also never seen the T3/4 Fortresses they're not a simple keep ... and they're not in the middle of no where.

weapons/armor: 19 gear sets per class sounds like alot but its not when you get every single one of them in a linear line in a linear order, every single time no matter who you are.  are you telling me you could only come up with 2 sytles of 2 hand axe for my black orc up to level 30? thats it? mythic dropped it huge on this one.

 You must only be going after the PvE gear sets then because I've never completed any gear sets other than the Mercenary sets you get for mixing pve / pvp.  This is just a Waaah boo hoo gripe in my opinion.

PQ: i like the idea but, the luster wears off fast when all of them are set up the same exact way. a reivewer summed it up perfectly. these are basically a poor mans dungeon. take a plot of land throw waves of mobs and repeat it 4-5 times in a tier....next?

 Its obvious you ilke the reviewer have only done the easest find on the road PQ's otherwise you wouldn't be griping over PQ's.  Maybe you should go to Chapter 2 Chaos and try the PQ out by the water where in stage 2 you have to burn down 12 buildings..the only problem is as you set them on fire and walk off to light another a brigade of champion mobs come by and put out the fire and YES it deincriments  the number of builds you burn.   I was with a group of five people and we were not able to complete because of this. 

PvE mobs: sure trolls and wyverns are nice but you spend a huge part of your game life fighting dull models of humans and humoid type monster. all of which have horrible horrible AI. tank and spank fit every single mob you fight.

 This is not a PVE centric game what did you honestly expect? Trash mobs to know when to bend over and tie their shoes?

charater creation: once again below average was fine for mythic. recent games have tried to give you more and more choice on how you make your charater. Mythic didnt mind making a huge step backwards in this aspect. Not one once of effort was put into this to make it different.

 Many of those games also Suffered heavily due to the limitations then caused by the over custumization of games.  Look at Vanguard their toons were so heavily customizable that the game was unplayable for most and finally they removed the customization.  DDO is heavily instance and so is AOC adn even City of Heros due to the heavy customization issues.   You can either have heavy customization and lots of instancing or low customization and few to no instances you can't do both atleast not easily.

Polish? you know i say its very easy to have the title" most polished MMO" when its clear mythic took so many shortcuts. 

alright im done

 

Ok im worn out its obvious you understand nothing about GAme Design, Programming, Network code, etc or half your complaints like so many others wouldnt' be an issue.   Mythic did not take short cuts they gave us everything they said they would anyone that has gripes that things werent' doen right obviously weren't paying attention.

OP....I can't wait till your game comes out!!! It's gonna be friggin awesome!!!!!

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

and, what?

So you pointed out a bunch of stuff you don't like about Warhammer, it's not WaR by the way.

What made you feel that by buying Warhammer online, that it would revolutionize your mmo gaming experience? the only game with actual claims to be "revolutionary" was AoC.

Sounds like you set yourself up for failure and set yourself up to have your expectations killed.

So please, take your pathetic complaining to a shrink.

never said i needed a Next gen MMO. just a MMO from a devopler that has a passion of trying to do something great...not doing something exactly how many dev team before them have done.

only 4 dev teams are on the 2nd generations of MMO. Turbine, SoE, Funcom and Mythic.  Is it wrong to assume these veteran MMO deveoplers would try to push innovation?  they are supposed to SET the standard...not follow everyone esle

I'll be honest, when I read you comparing the graphics of a MMO to a game like Call of Duty, I stopped reading, the amount of processing power from both your CPU and GPU aren't anywhere near what they would have to be to have a MMO on par with top notch graphical non MMO games.  If you don't understand that then I do expect you to understand much else of MMO's.

Innovation is over rated the few games recently that tried to be heavily innovative fell flat on their ass.  There's such a thing as thinking big and then thinking too big.  I think Mythic took the right path for the type game they built if you can't see that then you obviously don't know much or understand much about design and limitations at all.

Seriously, why do we need innovation when the devs haven't even polished mmo v1 technology?

They've all been shying away from the UO way of thinking and using the EQ 1 model of MMO gaming. UO is the way to go, you wanna know what your wow killer will be? It will be a game with the right funding leaning towards an open world with no levels. We don't level up in real life, you only level up on a piece of paper if you're playing D&D because that was the only way to track it. Levels are lame, in real life we learn through practical use and gain strength in whatever it is by doing it more, this is how skill evolution should work, this is how your character should advance.

So until UO 2 comes out, everyone is just EQ 1 with different gimicks.

Originally posted by Stridar

I'll be honest, when I read you comparing the graphics of a MMO to a game like Call of Duty, I stopped reading, the amount of processing power from both your CPU and GPU aren't anywhere near what they would have to be to have a MMO on par with top notch graphical non MMO games.  If you don't understand that then I do expect you to understand much else of MMO's.

acutally you dont understand ill better explain my point....Crysis and Fear are 2 games that will bring even the most powerul PC to their knees. even years after with Fear.

however games such as Call of Duty 4 and UT3 prove you can have games that look great and run 60-150fps on med and high end hardware and run 30fps on low-med specs.

its shortsighted to think that you have to have below average graphics to run anything with alot of players....Resitiance 2 has 60 player maps and it runs on a console with much less ablity than a average PC with a much higher graphic demand.

even AoC has proved once they got their bugs worked out you can have high graphics a 40+ players on the screen adn still have a playable framerate....

im not asking for Crysis graphics just a middle ground. what we were given was not a middle ground but a low road.

once again this is just my opinion and i of course respect yours ive been playing MMO's since UO so no need to call in to question what i know about MMO's

"never said i needed a Next gen MMO. just a MMO from a devopler that has a passion of trying to do something great...not doing something exactly how many dev team before them have done.

only 4 dev teams are on the 2nd generations of MMO. Turbine, SoE, Funcom and Mythic. Is it wrong to assume these veteran MMO deveoplers would try to push innovation?

I believe thier passion was in trying to make a game based on Warhammer and making the RvR work right, on both counts i feel they suceeded.  If you felt the game was suppose to something other than that, such as the next evolutionary step in MMO's, that was your mistake. 

"they are supposed to SET the standard...not follow everyone esle"
 

Says who...you?  I certainly don't buy into the hype that a game has to push innovation to be good.  I've played many a game that pushed innovation but feel short of playablity or fun factor.  I would rather have the graphics as they are than superior graphics with lock down when characters appear in RvR battles. Most games doing RvR have limits on how many characters can be in a certain instance to prevent the garphic lock downs, in hugh battle orientated RvR games the graphics can't be state of the art period!

I pretty much agree with the OP, this game as a whole package feels like a HUGE step backwards for MMO's, even AoC let us customize our characters but in war you dont even get that, half a dozen faces and a couple of hairstyles is poor.

Don't get me wrong, upto T4 I was having fun, my guild was having fun, but then T4 and its boredom set in, i spent days at rank 40 waiting for something to do and that pretty much decided what i was gonna do with my account, at least until the dec patch comes in.

Lets not kid ourselves though, Mythic has been very lazy, the game world is split into so many zones and tiers it feels very much like guild wars or AoC with its instanced crap. To top that off the server population limits (1k or 5k depending on who you ask) is rediculously low for a MMO, where have the days gone where we got seamless worlds with tens of thousands of players on a single server cluster.

Graphics, the graphics at times can look ok, but in general are so far beyond poor that its unforgivable, only high res textures and shadows for your own character? very simple cartoonish textures and models for pretty much everything in the game world, no physics simulation at all, flat water effects that have no interaction effects...its all very 1998, it looks as bad as WoW and when WoW came out it looked so poor i couldnt even be bothered to play it then. They say sieges are a reason for this but the gfx still chug in respect to what is being drawn, sure outside keeps its nice and smooth but get 20 people taking a keep lord with effects maxed and it can bring any system to its knees. The real reason the gfx are so bad is due to inept programmers and lazy artists, nothing else.

Diversity in armour and crafting just isnt there, it's all very moreish, everyone looks the same after a while and without some serious time and effort devoted to developing this very quick the game will continue its bland existance. I want a game to offer ways to customise your existance, whether its owning and renting houses, building structures, creating armour, creating vehicles the likes of what swg pre-cu offered but instead this portion of the game has been reduced and theres no land to do these things anyway. The features that made good healthy communities are gone to leave shells of what MMO's used to be.

RvR, ok heres where the real meat should be, unfortunately its all broken, ive seen zones in T4 lock for destro when order still had a keep, ive seen a week when order couldnt gain any victory points so destro kept claiming and locking zones, ive seen a week when neither side could gain victory points from anything other than keeps and objs so no zones could be locked. Experience and renown rewards are poor for the time involved, chances to win bags are poor again and the fact theres only maybe 8 bags per keep reduces those odds even further. You want people in RvR lakes then give them renown and a better chance to earn gear, make it more profitable to be in RvR lakes than anywhere else, people seek the quickest and easiest way to progress and right now scens are that, change that fact QUICK.

Tbh, right now to me the game feels like a glorified multiplayer portion of an otherwise singleplayer game, its this years hellgate, it should be free to play because its quite obvious that those in charge have cut every corner to save money. More tiers and zones to thin the population out means they can use dozens of very cheap servers rather than the more expensive equivalents that the likes of older MMO's use.

Daoc of camelot is a better game than war, mythic made both these games. Why would they make a shallower version of their last game. they should of built upon what daoc was,  not subtract from it. In my opinion war was a bigger disappointment than age of conan.

a quote from Paul Said it best....Warhammer is 80% of what you are used to in other games....

he couldnt be more right....that 20%...the only thing is different is the fact the game is new and shiny and PQ's.

not all games are for everyone, but after playing so much DOAC i thought for sure this game would be for me.

The feeling i get from this is Mythic wasnt *hungry* enough...not like when they made their first game, they played the well beaten path on every part of the game

Originally posted by kazson

a quote from Paul Said it best....Warhammer is 80% of what you are used to in other games....

he couldnt be more right....that 20%...the only thing is different is the fact the game is new and shiny and PQ's.

not all games are for everyone, but after playing so much DOAC i thought for sure this game would be for me.

The feeling i get from this is Mythic wasnt *hungry* enough...not like when they made their first game, they played the well beaten path on every part of the game

 

Um.... you play AOC you really have no right discussing problems with other games with the praise you give AOC.

If you were playing any other game but AOC you would have credability but coming to any other forum and saying the game "could have done more" when you love AOC is laughable at best.

Good Luck in AOC I hear they have PVP XP in the game now awesome you wouldnt happen to be Protus-AOC would ya?

Originally posted by kazson

Originally posted by Stridar

I'll be honest, when I read you comparing the graphics of a MMO to a game like Call of Duty, I stopped reading, the amount of processing power from both your CPU and GPU aren't anywhere near what they would have to be to have a MMO on par with top notch graphical non MMO games.  If you don't understand that then I do expect you to understand much else of MMO's.

acutally you dont understand ill better explain my point....Crysis and Fear are 2 games that will bring even the most powerul PC to their knees. even years after with Fear.

however games such as Call of Duty 4 and UT3 prove you can have games that look great and run 60-150fps on med and high end hardware and run 30fps on low-med specs.

its shortsighted to think that you have to have below average graphics to run anything with alot of players....Resitiance 2 has 60 player maps and it runs on a console with much less ablity than a average PC with a much higher graphic demand.

even AoC has proved once they got their bugs worked out you can have high graphics a 40+ players on the screen adn still have a playable framerate....

im not asking for Crysis graphics just a middle ground. what we were given was not a middle ground but a low road.

once again this is just my opinion and i of course respect yours ive been playing MMO's since UO so no need to call in to question what i know about MMO's

You've been here for 4 years!

I don't believe you are attempting to compare a game like CoD4 to an MMO.

A game like CoD4 where the server has all it's resources devoted to an area half the size (at best) of one of WAR's RvR lakes.

Do you realise the scope of collision detection, view distance, npc-player interaction, siege event handling, PQ event handling... along with all the Tome of Knowledge information that has to be tracked and updated?

And graphics? you are concerned with Graphics?

You even suggested Resistance 2 with 60 player maps?!

The only reason I believe you even see a correlation between an MMO and a FPS in terms of multiplayer capacity and graphics... and how you can claim they didn't try......

is that you don't fully comprehend what you are talking about.

With that statement, i'm no longer pissed because it wouldn't do any good... you just don't know any better.

If WAR sieges took place in an instanced scenario, then yes... I imagine they could up all the graphics and even shove the player limit up way higher.

AoC exists with that feature and does look amazing...

But because it is heavily instanced. Much like CoD4 and Resistance 2 Multiplayer.

I recommend looking at it.

The OP is absolutely spot-on with his description. Mythic had a brilliant IP to work with and could have produced a fantastic RvR game but instead they churned out WoW 2 with the "option" to go into some very sparse and simplistic RvR areas if the players can be bothered. They actually managed to create an RvR game where the players can actually avoid the war (and many of them do) by grinding their way through mind-numbing PvE quests or stupid mini-games.

The only thing WAR offers that WoW doesnt are PQs (oh big deal so players can grind through large numbers of boring mobs with no AI) and Keep battles. Unfortunately the Keep battles are totally meaningless and no-one cares about them because losing one has no consequence. Otherwise WoW is actually a better game than WAR and has loads more variety with regards to items, customisation, classes, quests and monsters and its 4 years older.

Yeah what a winner! LMAO!

Originally posted by ronan32

Daoc of camelot is a better game than war, mythic made both these games. Why would they make a shallower version of their last game. they should of built upon what daoc was,  not subtract from it. In my opinion war was a bigger disappointment than age of conan.

exactly man!...they had the template and years of feedback. They could have taken that idea and expanded on it big time.

instead WaR feels like the groundwork for DAOC, when it should have been the other way around.

what did we get? the skeleton of WoW PvE and the early builds of DAOC RvR.

i just dont get it

Originally posted by jblah

Originally posted by kazson

a quote from Paul Said it best....Warhammer is 80% of what you are used to in other games....

he couldnt be more right....that 20%...the only thing is different is the fact the game is new and shiny and PQ's.

not all games are for everyone, but after playing so much DOAC i thought for sure this game would be for me.

The feeling i get from this is Mythic wasnt *hungry* enough...not like when they made their first game, they played the well beaten path on every part of the game

 

 

Um.... you play AOC you really have no right discussing problems with other games with the praise you give AOC.

If you were playing any other game but AOC you would have credability but coming to any other forum and saying the game "could have done more" when you love AOC is laughable at best.

Good Luck in AOC I hear they have PVP XP in the game now awesome you wouldnt happen to be Protus-AOC would ya?

dont derail my thread into something personal...how about going through my post and find how i said i MIGHT come back to AoC in Dec. i dont have a active sub AOC but i do lurk the forums for new info.

unlike you im a fan of all MMO's if a MMO makes improvments i give it a shot, i have 5 MMO ICons on my desktop that i dont have a sub for but i keep track of all them.

try to stay on topic and discuss the points.

Thread summary so far:

Emoquitter emoquits.

WOW fanboi trolls swoop in to back him up.

There... saved you guys all that pointless reading.