So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO.  Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach.  The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG.

LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot.  They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi.

If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling.

Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea?

Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea?

Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted?

Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea?

If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list.  If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.

I agree, backoff some untill you have some information that directly reflects the game as it will be released!

Stop the the crappy pr-alpha promises and pics!

Their statements so far are Joe Bidenesque in their gaffetasticness.

Originally posted by salvaje

Their statements so far are Joe Bidenesque in their gaffetasticness.

 

Heh, well you know, you'd think that after some major newspapers and news websites listed these problems in the history of SWG, LucasArts would at the very least acknowledge them at this point.  Everyone else seems to know what happened.

By failing to mention them, while talking about lessons learned, they're not hiding reality from anyone.  They only appear to be remarkably dense.  This doesn't inspire confidence in a potential playerbase that has a "once-bitten, twice-shy" mindset to begin with.

I'd really like to see what Bioware has to offer, even if it isn't what I liked in SWG.  I think they're going to introduce some innovative concepts into the MMO genre.  I'd like to give this a fair chance, but I gotta say, LA isn't helping.

I am not sure if you are referring to this, but I am particularly concern at the excessive use of the word "heroic" and the like during their interviews...

It just sounds so NGEish...

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Originally posted by Balkin31
I agree, backoff some untill you have some information that directly reflects the game as it will be released!
Stop the the crappy pr-alpha promises and pics!
 
 

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If you liked the NGE, you'll love TOR.

-rejected Bioware sales pitch....

Originally posted by sookster54

 

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Originally posted by Balkin31
I agree, backoff some untill you have some information that directly reflects the game as it will be released!
Stop the the crappy pr-alpha promises and pics!
 
 

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Did you not read what the guy from LA said though? He said "we learned that players want to be an instant hero character", as far as I know that's exactly what the NGE brought. Isn't MMORPGs about character progress?

 

Well, I'm sure some people do want to be the hero in their video game.  Tbh, that doesn't bother me.  Others want to play supporting roles in a virtual world.  In my mind both options are nice.  Also, I know a lot of players that were excited to unlock a jedi, but they didn't necessarily enjoy the whole journey.  Some of the killing, and killing, and killing to convert xp to force xp really was tiresome for some of my ingame friends.  One friend asked me, "since when did killing a million wookies make you a jedi?"  Tbh, I didn't really have a good answer for that lol.
 

Also, I don't think Bioware is capable of making a game as technically bad as the NGE.  Well maybe if you only gave them 3 months to do it (like the NGE), but I bet Bioware would simply refuse.  Kind of like when LucasArts wanted them to make the KOTOR sequel in a year.  Bioware said no thanks, and let the job pass to Obsidian.  A year wasn't nearly long enough for a project like that, and KOTOR 2 had huge technical issues, and some missing pieces.

Honestly, I think Bioware is going to put out a quality video game, with never before seen features and gameplay.  I don't think it will be like pre-cu, but I think it will probably be unique and entertaining.

What gets me is LucasArts' current p.r. campaign.  They try to reach out to people burned by SWG by saying they've learned from their mistakes, but then when they tell us what they learned, they don't mention some of the things that upset their players most.

So yeah, they get that some people want to play the hero.  Fine, no problem.  But, do they get that people don't like bugs, broken promises and having their game progress completely deleted?  From their current ads, it would be easy to conclude that no, they don't get that.  This isn't doing Bioware or the new MMO any favours.

We're talking about LucasArts here.  This isn't the same company from the 90s.

Replace "Star Wars-Y" with "heroic" and you basically have the same lame ass positioning from LEC that we heard during the NGE.

Fact of the matter is, SWTOR cannot be the NGE, or else it will fail for the same reason it did.  Even putting aside the betrayal, backstab, and fraud that was involved with how the NGE was inflicted upon us, it failed just as much because it was a shitty concept and not a fun game.  In the end, that is why the NGE today still sees less people log in each day than they had the day before, excpet when they give it away with the frequent "puhLEEEAZE come back!" trials, it's a crap game.

If it were good on it's own merits, it would have captured it's own audience instead of only holding on to a tiny remnant of the Pre-NGE player base who stay because they would eat a turd sandwich if it had a Star Wars logo toasted onto it.

Even the mythical "target audience" demanded an actual working game that was fun.

The bottom line:  If LEC is paying their marketing people minimum wage, they are being overcharged.  Whomever replaced Nancy McIntyre is clearly continuing her marketing style.

Originally posted by Warmaker

We're talking about LucasArts here.  This isn't the same company from the 90s.

Amen to that. Now they are led by all the assholes who know nothing about making games. 

Originally posted by Lateris

Originally posted by Warmaker

We're talking about LucasArts here.  This isn't the same company from the 90s.

Amen to that. Now they are led by all the assholes who know nothing about making games. 

After watching the prequels, they know nothing about making Star Wars films as well.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO.  Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach.  The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG.

LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot.  They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi.

If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling.

Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea?

Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea?

Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted?

Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea?

If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list.  If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.

Really? Wait, you're serious. Why are you TRYING to find negative things to post about? You're picking this crap out of thin air, because you had to deduce to come to this conclusion. LA never said they didn't learn those lessons, but because they don't specifically say so, you assume they didn't, which is a very negative attitude to have.

Let's not forget that LA/Bioware has worked together twice before and both times were awesome. I can't help but be positive about this. Why can't you?

LA/Bioware only worked once together. Kotor2 was obsidian, although they did get some help from bioware.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO.  Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach.  The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG.

LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot.  They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi.

If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling.

Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea?

Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea?

Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted?

Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea?

If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list.  If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.

 

Really? Wait, you're serious. Why are you TRYING to find negative things to post about? You're picking this crap out of thin air, because you had to deduce to come to this conclusion. LA never said they didn't learn those lessons, but because they don't specifically say so, you assume they didn't, which is a very negative attitude to have.

Let's not forget that LA/Bioware has worked together twice before and both times were awesome. I can't help but be positive about this. Why can't you?

ArcAngel is one of the most stand-up posters here, and when he speaks I tend to listen to what he has to say because his opinions and observations are quite interesting and valid IMO.

I think Arc is simply looking for some reassurances that the BW/LA partnership will be conducive to us as gamers, and not a continuation of the poor ethics as experienced with the SoE/LA partnership.

Arc's post sounds more cautiously optimistic then it sounds negative IMO, and I share that same feeling as well.

Zoooweee...another WoW-clone then...Yeeey

(if LA and EA gets their way)

Seriously though, LA is ran by retard rejects full of downs syndrome who eats their own poo(star wars flavoured and all) and EA is out with the dollar sign getting drunk, snorting shit and being a predictable annoyance..pfft. Both used to be clever, smart and funny. Nowadays they both are a prime example of 'milking the cow' kind of thinking.

This statement just goes to prove how utterly stupid they really are. WoW's success is growing all the time. It's a damn fairytale come true for Blizzard now ffs. To top that is practically impossible. What WoW did was a one-time event never to be repeated again I'm almost sure of. When you go into developing a game thinking you can topple WoW off the throne you need a realitycheck or two, and check all the other failures that tried the same.

As long as George Lucas himself has nothing to do with these games they have a chance. I'm sorry, but he blew his proverbial load with the first trilogy (of which he only directed Star Wars). I don't even consider the new trilogy canon. The people behind the original KOTR did an amazing job. KOTR II lost me somewhere near the end as they never really finished the game.

Originally posted by sookster54

 

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Originally posted by Balkin31
I agree, backoff some untill you have some information that directly reflects the game as it will be released!
Stop the the crappy pr-alpha promises and pics!
 
 

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Did you not read what the guy from LA said though? He said "we learned that players want to be an instant hero character", as far as I know that's exactly what the NGE brought. Isn't MMORPGs about character progress?

 

People with brain (and Blizzard) kinda agree with it.
Others still have to wake the fuck up, I am thinking about the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Lucasarts, and SoE which as lately are releasing (or nerfing in the case of SoE), games that goes for the instant gratification, rather than the journey.

Let's see how many games are going to fail, before developers understand this simple concept.
MMORPGs are not JUST games, for that there are the Multiplayer games which offer instant fun without the need to waste time developing your character.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO.  Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach.  The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG.

LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot.  They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi.

If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling.

Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea?

Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea?

Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted?

Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea?

If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list.  If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.

To be honest I don't think it matters at all.

Oh sure, gamers and especially Star Wars gamers are going to find all of this of interest. But the average person who does like Star Wars and who did like the second trilogy is only going to see the release of a new Star Wars game. And it's online! They might go and look at some reviews but chances are they will just purchase it.

I don't think that the average player game player is very involved with all the SWG drama.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

So we've read some LA press releases about the upcoming Bioware, StarWars MMO.  Bioware has a fantastic reputation, but LA is not helping with their current marketting approach.  The strategy focuses on lessons they claim to have learned from SWG.

LA may be right that some people didn't like logging into StarWars Galaxies with a pistol, a melon and a desert full of womprats to shoot.  They also may be right that people didn't enjoy the whole process of killiing a trillion bols, wookies, etc. to try to unlock a jedi.

If, however, these are the only clear examples of what they've learned from StarWars Galaxies, this is going to leave people with a bad feeling.

Did they not learn that releasing a game with broken professions and quests is a bad idea?

Did they not learn that revamping the game (twice) after it went live was a bad idea?

Did they not learn that people strongly dislike having all of their ingame progress and professions deleted?

Did they not learn that surprising people with a complete revamp the day after an expansion release is a bad idea?

If they're going to talk about "lessons learned from SWG," I think they had better start including these in their list.  If they don't, people are going to assume LA didn't learn these lessons; and potential players may avoid the new StarWars MMO because LucasArts, the IP holder, it still out to lunch and capable of ruining yet another StarWars online experience.

To be honest I don't think it matters at all.

Oh sure, gamers and especially Star Wars gamers are going to find all of this of interest. But the average person who does like Star Wars and who did like the second trilogy is only going to see the release of a new Star Wars game. And it's online! They might go and look at some reviews but chances are they will just purchase it.

I don't think that the average game player is very involved with all the SWG drama.