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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Population Imbalance Issues

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68 posts found


Joined: 5/28/07
Posts: 868

"If men were created equal, then what happened to game developers?"

10/27/08 6:01:36 PM#21

I think alot of the population decline and or imbalance is because people are placed into these scenarios that give basically free goodies. My day in WAR is mostly spent sitting at a random war camp waiting for a scenario que. It's getting to the point of boredom in some cases. Mythic needs to solve this problem head on. They need to provide a reason for Open RVR. Create a large based dungeon similar to Darkness Falls and use it in the same manner. It's what kept people wanting to do keep sieges. All these scenarios due is force people into instancing. I'm not going to say it truly forces you, but what reason is there to claiming a t2 keep? Besides some random loot bags, decent xp and trivial bonuses, what else is there? Darkness Falls, a huge dungeon with alot of reasons to keep it is what made me love RvRing in DaoC. But besides city sieging in t4, keep taking is really lackluster pre-t4. Give people a good reason to take these keeps. Make a huge DF dungeon with control advantages for claiming a certain amount of keeps. Do something besides increasing the bonuses. It's not the bonuses people want, it's the feeling we got from DF is what we really want.

It's either that are atleast replace these scenarios with keep scenarios so people learn how to take keeps. And not just random mini-game fun. I hated BG's in WOW because of this, and now WAR is doing it. And to me the only reason they did it is to take people away from WOW bg's. But why would people want to come to WAR to play another WOWish BG? Make this a Warhammer game without the WOWish neccesites. I re-subed to WAR and love it. But it really is becoming boring. The level grind after 20 and these dam scenarios must be getting to me so I will end it here. But seriously Mark, quit giving bonuses and fix the dam problem. Remeber ToA, enough said.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 585

10/27/08 6:04:23 PM#22
Originally posted by TheMaelstrom

I"m gonna post this simply because I cannot believe no one else pointed it out....


The writer says that Order suffers from an imbalance in healing classes.

I'm gonna repeat that because it bears repeating.

The writer says that Order suffers from an imbalance in healing classes.


As a dedicated and smart Destruction player, I've gotta call this one out. Are you serious?! FFS man... try killing a runepriest. Try killing an Iron-breaker with a runepriest healing him. It's simply not gonna happen. The runepriest has insta-cast heals, absorbs, etc. They're easily the best healer in the game as a result. I'm not knocking Destruction healers, but the runepriest is seriously badass.


As a dedicated and smart Destruction player

this part made realize this post was bogus.

When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 16

10/27/08 6:13:29 PM#23
Originally posted by mackdawg19

I think alot of the population decline and or imbalance is because people are placed into these scenarios that give basically free goodies. My day in WAR is mostly spent sitting at a random war camp waiting for a scenario que. It's getting to the point of boredom in some cases. Mythic needs to solve this problem head on. They need to provide a reason for Open RVR. Create a large based dungeon similar to Darkness Falls and use it in the same manner. It's what kept people wanting to do keep sieges. All these scenarios due is force people into instancing. I'm not going to say it truly forces you, but what reason is there to claiming a t2 keep? Besides some random loot bags, decent xp and trivial bonuses, what else is there? Darkness Falls, a huge dungeon with alot of reasons to keep it is what made me love RvRing in DaoC. But besides city sieging in t4, keep taking is really lackluster pre-t4. Give people a good reason to take these keeps. Make a huge DF dungeon with control advantages for claiming a certain amount of keeps. Do something besides increasing the bonuses. It's not the bonuses people want, it's the feeling we got from DF is what we really want.


I was just talking to someone about this on vent yesterday! You're right on the money. Though I think it doesn't NEED to be a dungeon or even a physical location. Just make more quests available if you are in control of an area, and make the PQs harder if you're not. Then make the PQ keep sieges worth influence like the pve ones. These bonuses and penalties could also change depending on wether the zone was your's to begin with... like some of the higher level zones.


a dungeon like DF would be cool too, but we've seen it before.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 236

We have nothing to fear but fear itself - and Chuck Norris.

10/27/08 6:37:07 PM#24

I have played a several servers to get a feel how the populaiton affects the game.

Starting at Skull Throne it is essentially collector's edition server. People got in early head start and having rolling since. Good times until official launch.  Log in cue were horrible.  Then the server was cloned to Throne of Doom.

I went there because of my peak playing times were eastern time and evening meant i couldn't get in for 30-60min. Unacceptable.  Unfortunately the major guilds stayed and the cloned server was an alt server/ and very quiet. Scenarios after T2 would not pop at all.

My guild moved to Ironfist which seemed good,  T4 scenarios are popping with greater frequency.

A made a character on one of the imbalanced servers. Order. It seems less organized obviously and scenario win /loss ratio is poor namely because there are few healers. So we shall see how things pan out.

Interesting though all servers at this point have Rank 5 cities.  I do not know of a city capture yet. I'd figure by now Skull Throne would have one,

Would a larger server be able to work? Mythic seems to think not. I am concerned though that 5k pop might not be enough. 

Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris


Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 141

10/27/08 6:42:04 PM#25

They're already working on making open rvr more desirable. Some they already did, some will come soon.


Moreover people that think that scenarios are always better than open RvR simply didn't play all the way yet. At level 40 scenarios contribute very little to carachter growth (an average of 400 rp in a won scenario).


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/29/06
Posts: 635

10/27/08 6:53:51 PM#26

The OP vastly overstates the population problem, and fails to give Mythic credit for the actions they are taking to correct the problem.

I play destruction and I never wait more than 10-15 minutes to get into a scenario, and in the evenings it is more like 2-3 minutes.  I do agree that RvR at least in the first two tiers is pretty barren, but they are taking steps to fix this as well.

Besides while destruction may have more players, order seems to have better players.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 40

10/27/08 7:47:10 PM#27

I think the low tier RvR is nobody's land today; I only found some battles in New Emskrank in Tier 1... I don't think the Order has any problems with the healers - there isn't much healer, but there isn't much Destruction healer too, so it isn't problem. It's worse that in a scenario there isn't an automatic warband, so many times I simply can't see who needs healing because my groupmates were spreading across the map... (no, I'm not in a guild, I'm running pug matches) The PQs are deserted too, so I'm gathering influence in the first grinding stage almost every times...

Signatures are boring things.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3618

10/27/08 7:55:49 PM#28

The OP raises some good points. Hopefully the class/faction imbalances can be corrected.


I see a lot of speculation about mostly children play Order, or only experienced players play Destruction, bla bla bla.  Lot of assumptions based on what?  From the posts I've read it looks like their assumptions are heavily weighted toward what faction they play.


I am playing Empire right now.  Destro on the forums say it's Or'ders fault for losing because they don't use strategy and tactics.  Well it's easy to use strategy and tactics if you have the numbers and/or classes to support it.  Otherwise there tends to be chaos which is what we seem to have at the moment.  Empire very much needs a tank.


This game needs pvp to be successful for the game to be successful.  In spite of the baseless assumptions about Order players made by the other faction, there is hopefully someone within Mythic crunching the numbers to see that things are indeed imbalanced in favor of Destruction.  Otherwise you would not see Mythic adding classes, adding bonuses to improve factional balances, etc. 


Infact, the OP's observations are legitimized by Mythics recent actions and announcements to correct the problems which the OP details.  So how people can then come here and dispute which even Mythic admits is puzzling. 


But some people like to argue for the sake of argument I guess.





Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 100

10/27/08 8:00:41 PM#29

Class balance restored – It's a long shot, but the Knight of the Blazing Sun is something the Empire needs badly. I believe it will have a bigger effect on drawing people to Order then it's Dark-elven counterpart.


Believe all you like. I for one will be hanging up an IB and rolling it's destruction counterpart.


And in regards to the above poster who mentioned the Knight was treated as the 'mirror' I read it as tank released at the same time.


As for pop imbalance there's one on my server. Destruction outnumber Order in open field and yes it'll need to be fixed. Or you'll see Order farming renown dings in scenarios only with the odd zzerg or late night/morning keep takes.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/07
Posts: 80

A heart of darkness and a soul of the light can never truly coexist.

10/27/08 8:25:22 PM#30

Yeah, have to agree with a few other people who have responded. Order has weaker healers eh? Bogus.  Archmages and Rune Priests rock, if people know how to play them. On Red Eye Mountain I can honestly say scenarios go 50/50, I never know who is going to win any given one. Also on keep sieges, order can really put up a good fight if they are defending, and if they are attacking they seem to make quick work of a destro keep. Yes I play destruction.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 132

10/27/08 8:46:14 PM#31

The most important class in WAR are the healers. The side with the most healers often wins most long as they don't have TOO many healers.

High Elves are damn ugly. There's no way I am going to roll a fruity looking elf that is also damn ugly. That leaves Order with the Rune Priest who has his own visual shortcomings. Order needs a human pure-healer (not WP) and a human tank (KotBS).

Anyone who thinks Order is OP is clueless.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/28/05
Posts: 14

10/27/08 9:10:32 PM#32

I had talked with some of the members of Mythic at Gencon when Warhammer was still going into open beta and they had said they expected Destruction to outnumber Order about 60% to 40% and they were ok with that. In a game like WAR the "bad" guys were expected to outnumber "good" because of the nature of the game.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/04
Posts: 12

10/27/08 9:15:34 PM#33

Yeah there is no problems with the game at all, everything is OK. Like the SC I was just in where Des had 4 tanks, 5 DPS, Order we had  3 DPS, and rest where healers, and NO tanks, but everything is fine.


Also I have played a Zealot and RP both to level 15, the zealot is a lot easier and better to play then the RP. I am playing to RP cause I have friends that want to stay on the order side, if not for them I would be on the Des side in no time.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1532

10/27/08 9:42:07 PM#34
Originally posted by Stradden Warhammer online Correspondent Asaf Younsian writes this quick opinion piece throwing in his two cents about the population imbalances in Mythic Entertainment's Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning.

After a smooth launch and a lot of buzz, we're starting to see dents in Mythic Entertainment’s Warhammer Online world.

As it's not my intent to go on and list them, I wanted to narrow it down on one specific problem that might cause a series of problems that might very well drop the entire game a notch – Population imbalance between the different factions.

First, let's take a look at what this imbalance means and how it affects the world:

Most (if not all) servers seem to have a population of around 60% Destruction oriented characters and only 40% Order. While those numbers may change slightly, the majority remains on the destruction side.

Read more here.


Well, another person that claims that it's Mythic's fault for the choice of server that they made.  Been playing since head start and most likely very lucky in that the population balance, on badlands, is pretty darn good.  The community isn't so hot,  but hey, if I want to queue for serpent's passage im in in a matter of minutes, usually not long enough to turn in the kill players and scenario participation quests.

You seem to forget that orcs and dark elves are also missing their classes, choppa and blackguard to be specific.  Explain to me how its such a bad thing for order to be missing their two classes while it's ok for destruction to be missing theirs?  Tell me, is it just convenience that you stress how hard it is on order to be missing a melee dps and a tank while failing to mention that the exact same disparity lies with destruction as well, or are you just incapable of rational thought?

Rune priests and Archmages underpowered? Have you played one?  Did you ever think that the ones you have played with just suck?  Not enough tanks?  Role one!  Instead of whining and crying and putting the blame on everyone else man up, take some responsibility and be proactive., I think your selection of a "correspondant" is SERIOUSLY lacking in both reasoning ability, and in onjectivity.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 577

10/28/08 1:17:41 AM#35

The OP is both right and wrong.

The class composition imbalance is correcting itself atm simply because the player population is not stupid and can see what works and what dont work. I gave up on my SW in T4 and rerolled a WP instead so I had to go up through the tiers a second time and I can see some great differences from the first days of the game.

Order has far more tanks and healers and less dps (practically no SWs anymore), and dest side field far more ranged dps and fewer tanks, all in all you see similar group composition on both sides now as the 2nd generation of chars are lvling up. So that is being fixed as we speak.

The overall population imbalane OTOH is a more severe problem. On my homeserver of Karak Orrud we are always outnumbered 1 to 1.5 towards 1 to 2 any time we venture out into open RvR no matter what tier we move into. The only time we take keeps is a nighttime and then we get a lot of experience in keep defenses (but game give no rewards for defending keeps, only taking them).

 So far the only thing that have prevented dest from taking Altdorf is the severe server lag when more than 150 people fight in a zone. So the fortress lords kills entire raids in between the lag spikes.

"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."


Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 225

10/28/08 1:58:48 AM#36

Very good read, I think you covered the game pretty honestly. I am sure things will change though they always do, MMO's seem to change monthly  these days.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1731

10/28/08 2:11:35 AM#37

 This is bad. If anything, it's the exact opposite on the server I'm on, scenarios pop every 2 seconds because its all people freaking play, you would never know what the population balance was considering nobody is ever NOT in a scenario, and Order usually steamrolls Destruction, not the other way around as he claims, because Destruction can't our shit together half the time. Population troubles being the biggest issue in WAR? Don't make me freaking laugh. How about a combat system thats practically exacly the same as WoW, watered down RvR that doesn't even meet DAoC standards let alone feel like the game was designed around it, and NOBODY playing in freaking ORvR because people are too busy grinding out scenarios either because they want EZ experience or because they're from WoW and "Hey! these are like BGS 8D YAY familiarity!" How about we concern ourselves with WAR actually having an idenity of its own and fixing its RvR before we complain that the other side has two tanks and we only have one QQ. 

Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.



Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/06
Posts: 272

10/28/08 2:45:07 AM#38

I, for one, feel like he is incorrect in saying that the Destruction classes completely overpower the Order classes. A warriorpriest is every bit as good as a disciple of khain they are just direct opposites in respect to buffs (one buffs one debuffs but they both fight melee and heal the same)

Real as Reality Television!!!


Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 5072

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

10/28/08 4:00:23 AM#39

If population imbalance is not enough , topped by generally just better more efficient classes on Destro side,

but to make things even worse:

Destruction side are just better players


Face it. Powerplayers , pwners , organized PVP guilds - they are playing Destruction.

Order is populated by casual players , girls and carebears and roleplayers.


I was in many RVR battles , and was simply impressed how organized Destro was.



Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/05
Posts: 181

10/28/08 4:10:32 AM#40

Well all you people can try to defend WAR all you like here, but the fact of the matter is, this game is 110% dependent on Population Balance. If there is an imbalance, the game is screwed...there's no "uhm and aah" about this, this is reality.

We can go on about why there's population imbalance , whether it's the fact that Order is simply visually unappealing or whether the late upsurge of Horde players in WoW resulted in a more "comfortable" feeling with playing Destruction is also irrelevant.


I am playing Order, and if there's a 40+ sized Destruction  warband in any given area and only 20 Order, you can smoke any kind of crap you like, Destruction WILL NOT GET A FIGHT.  Order WILL resort to "guerilla" or "avoid the zerg" tactics and simply well, avoid the fight.

The part that the Author did not touch on , which is surprising to me is another Population Imbalance which Mythic imposed on the game. That is of course TIER based populations.

Has no one ever thought what T1 is gonna look like in 3 months time? Heck what about T2/3 ? How will any new player or "alt-aholic" play WAR in 3 months? If you leveled too fast you probably hit T4 with nothing to do, if you leve too slow you will sit in T1 with nothing but quests to do....



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