Originally posted by Thunderous

Did anyone notice when reading or listening to the Bioware developers interviews the numerous uses of the phrase "heroic encounter" over and over again?

That is straight from LucasArts and LucasFilm.  That's all we heard when the NGE came out.  This game is simply going to be the game that Lucas always wanted in the first place.  Bioware was a good choice of a company to make it.

Yeah, I picked up on that too. I mean, the train wreck syndrome is in play for me right now in that I'm gonna watch this title develope. The rational side of me says though that anyone capable of understanding the written / spoken english language that isn't just blinded by joy at the announcement of the game itself, anyone that actually pays attention and reads and processes word by word can see alot of the same catch phrases and talking points. The rest (majority) of people only hang on the Paul Barnett catch words and phrases (i.e., "Awesome", "Cool", etc.).

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by wolfmann

I'm a Star Wars fan, who loved old SWG because it gave the freedom that Star Wars is about.

 

SWG-NGE done "right" is exactly what SWTOR sounds like to me, and since I'm a STAR WARS fan, not a GLOWBAT fan, I'm really not looking forward to SWTOR at all.

I have no intentions of  "heroics" or glowbattery'ing around.... Star Wars is more than Glowbats... Sadly, most people who claim themselves to be Star wars fans...are not, they are glowbatters nothing more, nothing less.

 

If you are a SW fan, how can you say the saga doesn't revolve around the big tug of war between the light side and dark side? There are heroes, both force users and non force users in the saga, but all non force users are really secondary characters. For example, while the Rebellion was fighting the Empire, the real fight was between the forces of light and dark through its champions, Luke and Vader/Palpetine respectively.

Using the term glowbats to describe fans who like being the central part of the story is insulting and just shows the lack of knowledge you have on the "entire" SW story.

Sure they are part of the story. The problem is these game companies only ever focus on that one part of the story. They don't give any serious focus on the Wattos and the Jabbas. If there were no, as you call them, "secondary" characters making all the "stuff" then ships, weapons, clothes, food, The Death Star, none of that gets made. In that vein they are equally important characters. Just because you may not want to explore the SW universe from that perspective doesn't mean there isn't a whole ton of folks out there who do what that experience. A good game would offer as much of the spectrum of life in the universe in equal parts depth. You may want to go charging off killing Storm Troopers as a Jedi where I may want to become a successful imperial defense forces sub-contractor making E-11s to help keep the imperial army armed. Both are fun for their respective players and neither interferes with the other's gameplay and that's 2 subscription fees instead of 1. win(you)/win(me)/win(game company pocketbook).

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by wolfmann

I'm a Star Wars fan, who loved old SWG because it gave the freedom that Star Wars is about.

 

SWG-NGE done "right" is exactly what SWTOR sounds like to me, and since I'm a STAR WARS fan, not a GLOWBAT fan, I'm really not looking forward to SWTOR at all.

I have no intentions of  "heroics" or glowbattery'ing around.... Star Wars is more than Glowbats... Sadly, most people who claim themselves to be Star wars fans...are not, they are glowbatters nothing more, nothing less.

 

If you are a SW fan, how can you say the saga doesn't revolve around the big tug of war between the light side and dark side? There are heroes, both force users and non force users in the saga, but all non force users are really secondary characters. For example, while the Rebellion was fighting the Empire, the real fight was between the forces of light and dark through its champions, Luke and Vader/Palpetine respectively.

Using the term glowbats to describe fans who like being the central part of the story is insulting and just shows the lack of knowledge you have on the "entire" SW story.

 

Sure they are part of the story. The problem is these game companies only ever focus on that one part of the story. They don't give any serious focus on the Wattos and the Jabbas. If there were no, as you call them, "secondary" characters making all the "stuff" then ships, weapons, clothes, food, The Death Star, none of that gets made. In that vein they are equally important characters. Just because you may not want to explore the SW universe from that perspective doesn't mean there isn't a whole ton of folks out there who do what that experience. A good game would offer as much of the spectrum of life in the universe in equal parts depth. You may want to go charging off killing Storm Troopers as a Jedi where I may want to become a successful imperial defense forces sub-contractor making E-11s to help keep the imperial army armed. Both are fun for their respective players and neither interferes with the other's gameplay and that's 2 subscription fees instead of 1. win(you)/win(me)/win(game company pocketbook).

I appreciate all aspects of the Star Wars universe, however, the focus of the story has always been on the war between the dark side and the light side. The focus of the overall story has never been about the merchants and underworld charcters. Sure, they played a role in the story, but not a major role in comparison to the Sith and Jedi.

What you're asking for requires more money, resources, development time where the end reward for doing this in a certain untold amount of extra subscribers that probably won't equal the time and money put into it. Whereas, if they focus on the story that the majority care about, they can save a lot more money and make the masses happy.

It sucks to not be one of the masses, believe me, because I've been on the outside of the masses that a game has catered to. I am glad to see a game that will cater to a player like me and will be disappointed if complainers ruin the game for me. So are you going to be one of those gamers that erode the ToR forum because the game doesn't cater to you or will you be one of those gamers that understand that not every game will cater to you?

SWG wasn't 'bout heros. it was 'bout livin' in SW universe not livin' in SW movies!

it was for ppl who liked SW sci-fi settin'  and could become anybody from a farmer to an ace pilot in good ol' SWG...

 iconic/starwarsy my shiny buttom! ppl who wanted to be like the main characters in the movies just had to either role play that with what they had(32+ proffesions should be enough choice) or just go play any of SW SP games where ya can have all the insta action and heroic all day!

Originally posted by redriver

SWG wasn't 'bout heros. it was 'bout livin' in SW universe not livin' in SW movies!

it was for ppl who liked SW sci-fi settin'  and could become anybody from a farmer to an ace pilot in good ol' SWG...

 iconic/starwarsy my shiny buttom! ppl who wanted to be like the main characters in the movies just had to either role play that with what they had(32+ proffesions should be enough choice) or just go play any of SW SP games where ya can have all the insta action and heroic all day!

thats it in a nut shell.  i want the SW life not the moive life. thats what i loved about  swg. just give us back swg pre-nge

Those who state that Star Wars is only linear, and only about Jedi character stories have obviously not engrossed themselves in Star Wars as it truly is, as many great authors, storyboarders, concept artists, animators, costume designers, character creators, and George Lucas himself, all understand and experience Star Wars.

Any who have actually read the books, who have played and experienced the entire series of Star Wars movies and video games, the card game, the "Encyclopedia" books, the WookiePedia, can tell you that every PIECE of the star wars universe has a name and a backstory, each of which are extremely interesting. Many stories' main characters are non-Jedi characters (e.g. - Lando Calrissian, Wedge Antilles, Han Solo, Dash Rendar, Kyle Katarn (in his original incarnation), etc.). Even the movies themselves give insane amount of detail to the rest of the universe that was Star Wars. To those who wish to base their idea of this future game on KOTOR 1 & 2 alone, both games dedicated enormous time and detail to each NPC's background. Case-in-point: Recall the little story of the band, with the multiple singers who came in and out (the correct answers and sequence unlocked a chest)?

This being undeniable, any MMO with the Star Wars name which desires to truly embrace and capture the essence of the universe should naturally consist of these types of characters.

As a supplement, community, economy, and politics have been staple to the success of each and every  storyline - The Rebel Alliance built each other up & encouraged each other, the Mos Eisley cantina was a "hive" of activity, Han was always after credits, the Rebel Alliance had to be funded before it could become a viable resistance, and the galactic senate was the means by which the emperor began his ascension to power. If any MMO is to accurately represent and emulate the star wars experience, they necessarily must have these social functions be player-based. Indeed these should be prodded & directed by those talented in story-telling, the design team. However, if they wish to involve and arrest the attention of the player, the player must feel ownership of the story. Take KOTOR 1 & 2 as an example: Each an every choice made had consequences, and gave the player a sense of ownership. Really, what better story than one which has not yet been told, yet which already has its foundations, and its future, set in stone!?

As a secondary argument, one rested more on personal opinion than fact (as the previous arguments), from the point of view of the Star Wars person (creature, human - what have you), throughout known history, Force-Sensitivity was very rare; Force-Attunement was even more rare; Force-Mastery, nearly non-existent statistically. Sure in the story of KOTOR there are a lot of Jedi, but the ratio of "Jedi:Person" is still statistically very low. That is why a battle between two force masters would be so insanely EPIC in the stories, and in the movies even more-so. By that argument, Jedi should NOT be a starting profession, but should be unlockable by a) effort, and b) a very small chanced randomness. That will make it valuable. All Jedi should be INCREDIBLY valuable, and as current economic issues (and the current state of SWG) are giving testament to, any item that is over saturated is no longer valuable.

If Bioware is a "wise" company, which I believe they have proven, in addition to creative and intelligent, they will obviously give much credence, thought, and respect to those with experience, i.e. - SWG veterans. This is not to say that non-SWG-vets may not have better ideas, but life itself dictates that experience outweighs loudness.

I thoroughly enjoyed pre-NGE/CU SWG, however, despite my plethora of opinions thereof, I eagerly await this game, and hope nothing else than that Bioware creates a better experience than SWG, with even more possibilities, more sandbox style, a better MMO than any yet created. To that end, I will offer my own effort. Bioware has the time, the talent, the background & foundation, the examples (bad & good), the fan-base & support, the funding, the corroborative forum from which infinite GREAT ideas come, and the DRIVE to do it. Let us all hope they just take advantage of and understand their resources, and fulfill each of our hopes for this great game. May The Force Be With Them.

The stories have generally revolved around Jedi/Sith.  Yes there are minor characters who help out.  Yes the Star Wars world is very detailed due to the fanatic Star Wars fans who spend all their time going over every little fact in the Star Wars movies and Star Wars universe.  None the less the stories remain about the epics characters and not about the little guy.  They definately don't revolve around the entertainers in the cantina's, the farmers, or the crafters.  One of the big reason's Star Wars Galaxies failed was because it didn't feel like a Star Wars movie.  On the otherhand KOTOR you almost felt like you were playing through the Original Trilogy.

Once again, I'll reiterate that obviously the majority of epic stories were centered on Jedi, but not all of them. There is a HUGE mandalorian following for instance that could care less about jedi, and would even like to do away with them (as any true mandalorian would).

I disagree that Jedi should be rare also.  It's another part of what made Star Wars Galaxies not as popular as it could have been.  Many people wish to play as a Jedi or Sith.  Much more so then any other class.  As you said Jedi are rare compared to other classes and have more epic stories.  To maximisee fun for the playerbase you have to allow people to live their dream of being a Jedi or Sith in the Star Wars universe since thats what the majoirty of players with want to do.  To force people to play as other classes that they don't really care much about dimishes the fun factor a great deal.

I have no trust in Lucas Arts when it comes to an MMORPG. I do believe Bioware will make a great game but it will always be threatened by the BS at Lucas Arts game division. And this rubbish spweing from Lucas Arts that they can beat World of Warcraft from the gate. Dumb. 

Lucas Arts needs to sit back and allow Bioware to make a great game and not screw this one up like they did with SWG.  

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by wolfmann

I'm a Star Wars fan, who loved old SWG because it gave the freedom that Star Wars is about.

 

SWG-NGE done "right" is exactly what SWTOR sounds like to me, and since I'm a STAR WARS fan, not a GLOWBAT fan, I'm really not looking forward to SWTOR at all.

I have no intentions of  "heroics" or glowbattery'ing around.... Star Wars is more than Glowbats... Sadly, most people who claim themselves to be Star wars fans...are not, they are glowbatters nothing more, nothing less.

 

If you are a SW fan, how can you say the saga doesn't revolve around the big tug of war between the light side and dark side? There are heroes, both force users and non force users in the saga, but all non force users are really secondary characters. For example, while the Rebellion was fighting the Empire, the real fight was between the forces of light and dark through its champions, Luke and Vader/Palpetine respectively.

Using the term glowbats to describe fans who like being the central part of the story is insulting and just shows the lack of knowledge you have on the "entire" SW story.

 

Sure they are part of the story. The problem is these game companies only ever focus on that one part of the story. They don't give any serious focus on the Wattos and the Jabbas. If there were no, as you call them, "secondary" characters making all the "stuff" then ships, weapons, clothes, food, The Death Star, none of that gets made. In that vein they are equally important characters. Just because you may not want to explore the SW universe from that perspective doesn't mean there isn't a whole ton of folks out there who do what that experience. A good game would offer as much of the spectrum of life in the universe in equal parts depth. You may want to go charging off killing Storm Troopers as a Jedi where I may want to become a successful imperial defense forces sub-contractor making E-11s to help keep the imperial army armed. Both are fun for their respective players and neither interferes with the other's gameplay and that's 2 subscription fees instead of 1. win(you)/win(me)/win(game company pocketbook).

 

I appreciate all aspects of the Star Wars universe, however, the focus of the story has always been on the war between the dark side and the light side. The focus of the overall story has never been about the merchants and underworld charcters. Sure, they played a role in the story, but not a major role in comparison to the Sith and Jedi.

What you're asking for requires more money, resources, development time where the end reward for doing this in a certain untold amount of extra subscribers that probably won't equal the time and money put into it. Whereas, if they focus on the story that the majority care about, they can save a lot more money and make the masses happy.

It sucks to not be one of the masses, believe me, because I've been on the outside of the masses that a game has catered to. I am glad to see a game that will cater to a player like me and will be disappointed if complainers ruin the game for me. So are you going to be one of those gamers that erode the ToR forum because the game doesn't cater to you or will you be one of those gamers that understand that not every game will cater to you?

Any game require money, resources and development time. You're entitled to your opinion but I'd just like to point out that to the unknowing that everything you wrote in your second paragragh is just that, an opinion. It isn't fact. You have only to look at the most recent games launched who chose to focus on 1-2 aspects like that and see where it got them. There were plenty of people claiming as you do for those games as well. Then you look to the so called first generation games where they did spread equal development to those various areas and see that they all did well, with regard to the AAA games.
 

But hey, if you can't understand that a more well-rounded game draws more folks to play (because more people have a chance of having something of interest to do), I certainly am not going to try to convince you. In the same way you would be disappointed if "complainers ruin the game for" you I'm disappointed in folks "settling" for these narrow-focused donkey-and-carrot MMOs that companies are putting out. But I guess having the freedom of choice and having an active role is creating some of your own entertainment is too much for some folks. They prefer to be led around from point to point. Que sera.

I understand that every game isn't made for me. I also understand that I have the priviledge of expressing my disappointment in a company's direction for a game in a constructive manner. You don't have to necessarily read such posts which will help you maintain the opinion of everything being great and perfect for you. I certainly won't hijack any of those type of threads trying to pour salt in your rose garden. On the other hand I'm just as much a fan of the star wars universe as you are and have just as much "right" to express my concerns.

Just a matter of doing it in a respectful manner and not having a vocabulary and opinion that revolves around "This sucks! The end." or "This is awesome! The end.". 

Day 1 SWG vet here, quit not long after Nov 2005 and checked out free vet trials here and there after that. I don't expect SWTOR to be a sandbox, infact I think "sandbox" is ancient history in the MMO industry, almost no one seems to want to make an MMO game with that type of environment anymore. There's too much speculation on this game right now such as "there's no crafting" or "crafting will suck" and "it's a WoW clone" and whatever else people like to make up since Bioware/LA really hasn't given enough detail about the game yet.

The things I hope for in this game is a community you can socialize with, apartments you can rent like in the KOTOR 1/2 game, vendor and operate stores and medical centers, and classes besides Jedi/Sith. I'm sure there'll be crafting, I'm also pretty confident there'll be slicing or item upgrading like upgrading a rifle for more damage in KOTOR 2.

Like I said, too early without much information on the game.

Originally posted by surfsk8snow

By that argument, Jedi should NOT be a starting profession, but should be unlockable by a) effort, and b) a very small chanced randomness. That will make it valuable. All Jedi should be INCREDIBLY valuable, and as current economic issues (and the current state of SWG) are giving testament to, any item that is over saturated is no longer valuable.

I cannot agree with your above statement. I am going to quote one of your sources wookiepedia, "[edit] Training Main article: Jedi training
Padawans would typically go on missions with their Jedi Masters to learn from experience; here Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi on a mission to Naboo.Almost all youthful Jedi were initially called Younglings and instructed in "clans" by a venerable, experienced Jedi Master, learning the ways of the Jedi and the powers of the Force. After Ruusan it had become normal that the [Jedi trainees were always children]. Once Yavin 4 had been established as Jedi headquarters, the Jedi initiates, which were no longer children, were trained first under the direction of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, and, in time, under another Master's direction in groups. When the New Jedi Order began, the Younglings were again trained in clans from childhood.When an individual student achieved satisfactory understanding of the Jedi way, they were usually taken under the wing of another Jedi member and instructed individually to complete their training. Masters typically brought their Padawans along on missions, and later sent them on missions of their own, to allow them to gain experience and learn from practice."
 

With that said, The class of Jedi should not be an unlockable job. If becoming a Jedi was purely based on training from a young age, then why would anyone suggest that it would be a unlockable job? Based on the portion that was quoted, it would suggest that a Jedi should be a starting class. Not one that you could work into. I would say that Kyle Katarn would be an exception to the rule but again it is an EXCEPTION versus the rule. In this case if we were to suggest that Bioware would have to make it a unlockable job then we are definitely making the job an EXCEPTION and not the rule. If this is to curb the amount of people of playing Jedi then have to be other ways.

Such as nerfing the class until you get to level 30, Simple abilities can not be unlocked at low levels. There is other ways to do this and the ones that I have stated were examples not the solution.....Making parity  will be a creative task for Bioware & a must! But simply making it something that you have to unlock is attempting to not only work harder at trying to obtain the job, but it seems that if you put more time in than the other guy/gal, then you should be rewarded....... That sounds LAME!

If you are going to play the game to be a Jedi you should start that way. This isnt SWG where they are going to make it an obtainable job after you have Mastered 4 professions. That is what caused its demise in the first place. When SOE learned of how many people were leaving the game cause the impossiblity to be able to devote that much time into game was simply ridiculous. People do have lives outside of Video games! This should be an escape from the real world, when you can escape you should be able to enjoy your Jedi, not loath the idea that you have to Master 4 professions then you can be a Jedi.

My point..... This is why I am excited about Bioware making this game. They are well aware of SWG's issues and what has been a dismal game since that change. People were dissappointed that they worked so hard to get to Jedi, while others either could not simply put that much time into get to Jedi or the latter..... Simply put and maybe harder to do, creating this parity for the Jedi class to allow other Characters/Classes to be able to inter mingle will be a big task for Bioware and will have to be pursued with a lot of diligence and objective thinking. Something that I believe Bioware has the ability to do and implement.  And May the force be with you!!!!! 

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by wolfmann

I'm a Star Wars fan, who loved old SWG because it gave the freedom that Star Wars is about.

 

SWG-NGE done "right" is exactly what SWTOR sounds like to me, and since I'm a STAR WARS fan, not a GLOWBAT fan, I'm really not looking forward to SWTOR at all.

I have no intentions of  "heroics" or glowbattery'ing around.... Star Wars is more than Glowbats... Sadly, most people who claim themselves to be Star wars fans...are not, they are glowbatters nothing more, nothing less.

 

If you are a SW fan, how can you say the saga doesn't revolve around the big tug of war between the light side and dark side? There are heroes, both force users and non force users in the saga, but all non force users are really secondary characters. For example, while the Rebellion was fighting the Empire, the real fight was between the forces of light and dark through its champions, Luke and Vader/Palpetine respectively.

Using the term glowbats to describe fans who like being the central part of the story is insulting and just shows the lack of knowledge you have on the "entire" SW story.

 

Sure they are part of the story. The problem is these game companies only ever focus on that one part of the story. They don't give any serious focus on the Wattos and the Jabbas. If there were no, as you call them, "secondary" characters making all the "stuff" then ships, weapons, clothes, food, The Death Star, none of that gets made. In that vein they are equally important characters. Just because you may not want to explore the SW universe from that perspective doesn't mean there isn't a whole ton of folks out there who do what that experience. A good game would offer as much of the spectrum of life in the universe in equal parts depth. You may want to go charging off killing Storm Troopers as a Jedi where I may want to become a successful imperial defense forces sub-contractor making E-11s to help keep the imperial army armed. Both are fun for their respective players and neither interferes with the other's gameplay and that's 2 subscription fees instead of 1. win(you)/win(me)/win(game company pocketbook).

 

I appreciate all aspects of the Star Wars universe, however, the focus of the story has always been on the war between the dark side and the light side. The focus of the overall story has never been about the merchants and underworld charcters. Sure, they played a role in the story, but not a major role in comparison to the Sith and Jedi.

What you're asking for requires more money, resources, development time where the end reward for doing this in a certain untold amount of extra subscribers that probably won't equal the time and money put into it. Whereas, if they focus on the story that the majority care about, they can save a lot more money and make the masses happy.

It sucks to not be one of the masses, believe me, because I've been on the outside of the masses that a game has catered to. I am glad to see a game that will cater to a player like me and will be disappointed if complainers ruin the game for me. So are you going to be one of those gamers that erode the ToR forum because the game doesn't cater to you or will you be one of those gamers that understand that not every game will cater to you?

Any game require money, resources and development time. You're entitled to your opinion but I'd just like to point out that to the unknowing that everything you wrote in your second paragragh is just that, an opinion. It isn't fact. You have only to look at the most recent games launched who chose to focus on 1-2 aspects like that and see where it got them. There were plenty of people claiming as you do for those games as well. Then you look to the so called first generation games where they did spread equal development to those various areas and see that they all did well, with regard to the AAA games.
 

But hey, if you can't understand that a more well-rounded game draws more folks to play (because more people have a chance of having something of interest to do), I certainly am not going to try to convince you. In the same way you would be disappointed if "complainers ruin the game for" you I'm disappointed in folks "settling" for these narrow-focused donkey-and-carrot MMOs that companies are putting out. But I guess having the freedom of choice and having an active role is creating some of your own entertainment is too much for some folks. They prefer to be led around from point to point. Que sera.

I understand that every game isn't made for me. I also understand that I have the priviledge of expressing my disappointment in a company's direction for a game in a constructive manner. You don't have to necessarily read such posts which will help you maintain the opinion of everything being great and perfect for you. I certainly won't hijack any of those type of threads trying to pour salt in your rose garden. On the other hand I'm just as much a fan of the star wars universe as you are and have just as much "right" to express my concerns.

Just a matter of doing it in a respectful manner and not having a vocabulary and opinion that revolves around "This sucks! The end." or "This is awesome! The end.". 

Man, that was a great way to put it to the point. I cant agree anymore or maybe I can. But for me, if you didnt see the Crafting Engine in SWG then you are missing something. Quality of ingredients was a factor, to have wars with other merchants was a factor. That crafting engine in SWG was excellent to say the least.
 

Unfortuneatly, we have to deal with some of the folks that can only see the outside of this game and have the opaque view that they have. We in turn can only bring up valid information and apply it when needed. In this case, I can appreciate this post.

Originally posted by Proximo521

Originally posted by surfsk8snow

By that argument, Jedi should NOT be a starting profession, but should be unlockable by a) effort, and b) a very small chanced randomness. That will make it valuable. All Jedi should be INCREDIBLY valuable, and as current economic issues (and the current state of SWG) are giving testament to, any item that is over saturated is no longer valuable.

I cannot agree with your above statement. I am going to quote one of your sources wookiepedia, "[edit] Training Main article: Jedi training
Padawans would typically go on missions with their Jedi Masters to learn from experience; here Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi on a mission to Naboo.Almost all youthful Jedi were initially called Younglings and instructed in "clans" by a venerable, experienced Jedi Master, learning the ways of the Jedi and the powers of the Force. After Ruusan it had become normal that the [Jedi trainees were always children]. Once Yavin 4 had been established as Jedi headquarters, the Jedi initiates, which were no longer children, were trained first under the direction of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, and, in time, under another Master's direction in groups. When the New Jedi Order began, the Younglings were again trained in clans from childhood.When an individual student achieved satisfactory understanding of the Jedi way, they were usually taken under the wing of another Jedi member and instructed individually to complete their training. Masters typically brought their Padawans along on missions, and later sent them on missions of their own, to allow them to gain experience and learn from practice."
 

With that said, The class of Jedi should not be an unlockable job. If becoming a Jedi was purely based on training from a young age, then why would anyone suggest that it would be a unlockable job? Based on the portion that was quoted, it would suggest that a Jedi should be a starting class. Not one that you could work into. I would say that Kyle Katarn would be an exception to the rule but again it is an EXCEPTION versus the rule. In this case if we were to suggest that Bioware would have to make it a unlockable job then we are definitely making the job an EXCEPTION and not the rule. If this is to curb the amount of people of playing Jedi then have to be other ways.

Such as nerfing the class until you get to level 30, Simple abilities can not be unlocked at low levels. There is other ways to do this and the ones that I have stated were examples not the solution.....Making parity  will be a creative task for Bioware & a must! But simply making it something that you have to unlock is attempting to not only work harder at trying to obtain the job, but it seems that if you put more time in than the other guy/gal, then you should be rewarded....... That sounds LAME!

If you are going to play the game to be a Jedi you should start that way. This isnt SWG where they are going to make it an obtainable job after you have Mastered 4 professions. That is what caused its demise in the first place. When SOE learned of how many people were leaving the game cause the impossiblity to be able to devote that much time into game was simply ridiculous. People do have lives outside of Video games! This should be an escape from the real world, when you can escape you should be able to enjoy your Jedi, not loath the idea that you have to Master 4 professions then you can be a Jedi.

My point..... This is why I am excited about Bioware making this game. They are well aware of SWG's issues and what has been a dismal game since that change. People were dissappointed that they worked so hard to get to Jedi, while others either could not simply put that much time into get to Jedi or the latter..... Simply put and maybe harder to do, creating this parity for the Jedi class to allow other Characters/Classes to be able to inter mingle will be a big task for Bioware and will have to be pursued with a lot of diligence and objective thinking. Something that I believe Bioware has the ability to do and implement.  And May the force be with you!!!!! 

 

You have a very twisted view of the SW lore. A 4 year old child didn't just wake up one morning and say, "Mom, Dad, I'm going to be a Jedi when I grow up. Can you send me to the academy ASAP?"

Your logic in this subject is laughable to me. 

You are correct that Jedi should not be an unlockable job, it should be random and by chance.

In the first paragraph you show the dedication and difficulty it took to become a Jedi, then in the last paragraph you shoot yourself in the foot.

Jedi was and still is a great achievement with many years of hard work. Not handed to you cuz you wanted it. It is important to know ones limitations and embrace it to become successful. True pre-CU'rs knew this and became successful. Something most MMORPG players know nothing about sadly.  They feel that being the best is the only true path in the game. Star Wars is not about being the best, it was about making a difference, and you could without being a jedi. They complain that everyone needs to be the Jedi. You sound like those who complain because you just don't have what it takes to be a true Jedi, you just feel like you are entitled.

I played SWG and I'm a vet. I had no drive to become Jedi because I realized early on that it would take too much dedication to the game to become one. Did I complain? NO! I became a force sensitive MBH/MCarb instead and had Jedi for dinner. 

SWG was fully about the lore and the story of Star Wars. My story. Not a dev's. The NGE destroyed that. Each and every SWG player in pre-CU had a great SW novel that they wrote themselves.

I have no bad will toward this game, and I know it will be nothing like SWG. I do hope for one thing though. I hope that LA and Bioware use their heads to make a great experience for everyone. CHEERS! to Bioware and good luck.

I believe the majority of true fans believe the Jedi Profession, if you want to call it that, should not be available upon character creation.  It cannot be random though because it will only result in ticking off a lot of people and create grinding.  This is on thing that Pre-CU did extremely well because in order to be force-sensitive it was partially random but could also be achievable by all.

Additionally, once force-sensitive there was still a progression.  Getting a light-saber wasn't the pinnacle of the game.  You could still go on and further change you character with different traits and abilities.

Have faith in Bioware, THEY WILL DO THIS RIGHT.  It may not be considered right by all, but it will work well.

Originally posted by Maiksu

I believe the majority of true fans believe the Jedi Profession, if you want to call it that, should not be available upon character creation.  It cannot be random though because it will only result in ticking off a lot of people and create grinding.  This is on thing that Pre-CU did extremely well because in order to be force-sensitive it was partially random but could also be achievable by all.

Additionally, once force-sensitive there was still a progression.  Getting a light-saber wasn't the pinnacle of the game.  You could still go on and further change you character with different traits and abilities.

Have faith in Bioware, THEY WILL DO THIS RIGHT.  It may not be considered right by all, but it will work well.

You may believe it, that doesn't make it so.  I won't play the game if jedi are handled at all like SWG.  I didn't play SWG for just that reason and will happily pass this game as well.

Originally posted by FreddyNoNose

Originally posted by Maiksu

I believe the majority of true fans believe the Jedi Profession, if you want to call it that, should not be available upon character creation.  It cannot be random though because it will only result in ticking off a lot of people and create grinding.  This is on thing that Pre-CU did extremely well because in order to be force-sensitive it was partially random but could also be achievable by all.

Additionally, once force-sensitive there was still a progression.  Getting a light-saber wasn't the pinnacle of the game.  You could still go on and further change you character with different traits and abilities.

Have faith in Bioware, THEY WILL DO THIS RIGHT.  It may not be considered right by all, but it will work well.

 

You may believe it, that doesn't make it so.  I won't play the game if jedi are handled at all like SWG.  I didn't play SWG for just that reason and will happily pass this game as well.

aren't jedi meant to be trained from childhood

 personally I think I prefer the idea of starting from beginning as jedi as long as it's done properly, i.e. very hard to master with strong abilities once you do, the opposite of the SWG way

Originally posted by Proximo521

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by wolfmann

I'm a Star Wars fan, who loved old SWG because it gave the freedom that Star Wars is about.

 

SWG-NGE done "right" is exactly what SWTOR sounds like to me, and since I'm a STAR WARS fan, not a GLOWBAT fan, I'm really not looking forward to SWTOR at all.

I have no intentions of  "heroics" or glowbattery'ing around.... Star Wars is more than Glowbats... Sadly, most people who claim themselves to be Star wars fans...are not, they are glowbatters nothing more, nothing less.

 

If you are a SW fan, how can you say the saga doesn't revolve around the big tug of war between the light side and dark side? There are heroes, both force users and non force users in the saga, but all non force users are really secondary characters. For example, while the Rebellion was fighting the Empire, the real fight was between the forces of light and dark through its champions, Luke and Vader/Palpetine respectively.

Using the term glowbats to describe fans who like being the central part of the story is insulting and just shows the lack of knowledge you have on the "entire" SW story.

 

Sure they are part of the story. The problem is these game companies only ever focus on that one part of the story. They don't give any serious focus on the Wattos and the Jabbas. If there were no, as you call them, "secondary" characters making all the "stuff" then ships, weapons, clothes, food, The Death Star, none of that gets made. In that vein they are equally important characters. Just because you may not want to explore the SW universe from that perspective doesn't mean there isn't a whole ton of folks out there who do what that experience. A good game would offer as much of the spectrum of life in the universe in equal parts depth. You may want to go charging off killing Storm Troopers as a Jedi where I may want to become a successful imperial defense forces sub-contractor making E-11s to help keep the imperial army armed. Both are fun for their respective players and neither interferes with the other's gameplay and that's 2 subscription fees instead of 1. win(you)/win(me)/win(game company pocketbook).

 

I appreciate all aspects of the Star Wars universe, however, the focus of the story has always been on the war between the dark side and the light side. The focus of the overall story has never been about the merchants and underworld charcters. Sure, they played a role in the story, but not a major role in comparison to the Sith and Jedi.

What you're asking for requires more money, resources, development time where the end reward for doing this in a certain untold amount of extra subscribers that probably won't equal the time and money put into it. Whereas, if they focus on the story that the majority care about, they can save a lot more money and make the masses happy.

It sucks to not be one of the masses, believe me, because I've been on the outside of the masses that a game has catered to. I am glad to see a game that will cater to a player like me and will be disappointed if complainers ruin the game for me. So are you going to be one of those gamers that erode the ToR forum because the game doesn't cater to you or will you be one of those gamers that understand that not every game will cater to you?

Any game require money, resources and development time. You're entitled to your opinion but I'd just like to point out that to the unknowing that everything you wrote in your second paragragh is just that, an opinion. It isn't fact. You have only to look at the most recent games launched who chose to focus on 1-2 aspects like that and see where it got them. There were plenty of people claiming as you do for those games as well. Then you look to the so called first generation games where they did spread equal development to those various areas and see that they all did well, with regard to the AAA games.
 

But hey, if you can't understand that a more well-rounded game draws more folks to play (because more people have a chance of having something of interest to do), I certainly am not going to try to convince you. In the same way you would be disappointed if "complainers ruin the game for" you I'm disappointed in folks "settling" for these narrow-focused donkey-and-carrot MMOs that companies are putting out. But I guess having the freedom of choice and having an active role is creating some of your own entertainment is too much for some folks. They prefer to be led around from point to point. Que sera.

I understand that every game isn't made for me. I also understand that I have the priviledge of expressing my disappointment in a company's direction for a game in a constructive manner. You don't have to necessarily read such posts which will help you maintain the opinion of everything being great and perfect for you. I certainly won't hijack any of those type of threads trying to pour salt in your rose garden. On the other hand I'm just as much a fan of the star wars universe as you are and have just as much "right" to express my concerns.

Just a matter of doing it in a respectful manner and not having a vocabulary and opinion that revolves around "This sucks! The end." or "This is awesome! The end.". 

Man, that was a great way to put it to the point. I cant agree anymore or maybe I can. But for me, if you didnt see the Crafting Engine in SWG then you are missing something. Quality of ingredients was a factor, to have wars with other merchants was a factor. That crafting engine in SWG was excellent to say the least.
 

Unfortuneatly, we have to deal with some of the folks that can only see the outside of this game and have the opaque view that they have. We in turn can only bring up valid information and apply it when needed. In this case, I can appreciate this post.

Aren't all of us on the outside of this game right now?  Or do you reserve special privileges for yourself?  The game will be whatever it is going to be.  If it ends up as SWG2, I won't buy it. 

No other mmo can compete agains pre-cu swg nuff said..let us just try this 1 out..and if not satisfied..go play the pre-cu emulator wich iI hope will go live soon :)