I am an SWG vet myself, and first of all let me explain what really attracted me to SWG;

- the sheer number of possibilities there were, i.a. 10000000 things to do.. it sounds strange because people complained about end game content but i never ever was bored..

- the possibility to play a jedi, but, it has to be VERY hard to acomplish this imho.

- the lore offc.. Im a huge SW fan.

Now, i honestly thing that BW and LA can make this happen, those 3 points are no problem for them at all. The only thing what really would make a setback for me personally is that Jedi would be a starting class.. that would really suck tbh.

For the rest i know biowares games and i have no doubt in my mind that this game will be superfuntime.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Roin

I just got one question for you OP.   How many triple A titles have you developed?  Bioware has been doing it for a while.   So I would like to hear how many you have made, that makes you so sure you know better then them.

 

You don't have to have developed any AAA titles to know what you as an individual think is good or bad. You just have to have the ability to not be a sheep and think for yourself.

A degree doesn't make you somehow omnipotent on a given subject. Just means you know how to regurgitate information. A parrot can do that. Neither does experience. Look at George W. Bush. Many years in politics and still screwed up a presidency. Look at various MMO created lately. Launched with severe lacking in multiple areas even with teams of people with "degrees and experience".

No, sorry. College is not a requirement to look at a company's idea, compare it at its basic level to recent relevant products and come to the conclusion that it really isn't so much different than the others. And those others aren't really fairing so well.

And I'm a Bioware fan from the first Baldur's Gate. I know what they do well, very well in fact. Telling stories. I've also played enough hours in MMOs to know that while a good story is nice, and has been few and far between in MMOs since 1997, story isn't enough by itself enough to keep subscriptions. If Bioware so focuses on telling story and neglects heavily, heavily definging/detailing other facets of gameplay that make a MMO go from "game" to a "world", well, many players, SWG Vets and other MMO players, will be greatly disappointed.

I pre-order almost all Bioware single player games at first opportunity. I won't be with this title. At first glance it looks like a linear follow-the-story offering and I prefer my MMOs to be worlds. If I want to fish, I can fish. If I want to build a manufacturing business, I can. If I want to smuggle elicit goods, I can. Just hopping from quest to quest can be done in a single player, without paying the monthly fee. The fee, to me, is in part due to the game offering more options of highly defined/detailed things to do.

I agree, I dont want to be led around doing quest after quest...despite most others, I enjoy just fighting somedays...somedays I just wanna sit around and chat, and some days i wanna craft or harvest goods.   As much as I play, if you lead me through quests non stop and don't let me play the game the way I want to I will be done with it in a about a month... I'm not going to want to start a new character over just to try "different" content.

No matter what any other player says, the templates used in SWG were the best thing any MMO has ever done...I could be a master rifleman then switch it up and be a master brawler/Teras Kasi in the next few days if I wanted to....

Then later being done with all the professions I wanted to be, I still had to work on becoming a Jedi...

If they had not changed things, they would still be getting money from my 6 SWG accounts.

First a comment on SWG, I was a beta tester and loved the pre CU SWG, but the problem was that Sony was not getting the player base they wanted after the release of WoW in 2004, and made a mistake that caused a lot of old timer cancellations, and even thou it did increase the overal pop within the first few months of release, in evitably was their downfall. So while the pre-CU was fun, it was not enticing enough people to the game, so if Bioware mimicked SWG theyd just end up with the same old SWG vets, but once again have a problem attracting the millions that are already hooked on WoW, WAR, etc... So while any SWG vet will tell you the original system was the best that there has ever been, the player population told us otherwise.

But the real thing i wanted to comment on was I read alot of posts about soloing and grouping and whether either should be mandated.  Im always a fan of why not both, If someone wants to solo, let them solo, if someone wants to group, let them group. Why have any barriers in the way of attracting more population? People forget that this is a game first and foremost, so when people make the comment that nothing should be spoon fed, they are forgetting that games are supposed to be fun, not nerve racking. But on the flip side, as some people want to play games to be challenged they should have that kind of content too. Wow did a good job with that, where there was plenty of easy solo content for days you just wanted to relax, and some real nice party encounters for when you wanted to be on your game and knew you had a chance to wipe. IMO, a developer should do everything in their power to cater to the needs of as many as possible. Thus providing a larger, more full world.

LucasArts is the one that said all those goals, not Bioware, however Bioware probably has to follow it if they want to keep the IP going. LucasArt's idea of pursuing WoW numbers is a mistake right off the bat, the mistake about 10 other companies and their MMORPGs tried to do the past 4 years and all turned out to be a sad disappointment. I don't mind story driven gameplay, Tabula Rasa was sort of that way and it always kept you occupied, it didn't mean that was all there was to do, you take a break, pvp/duel a little, shop around, explore- these will definitely be in SWTOR.

City of Heroes/Villains is heavily team based, now you gain xp and level up faster in a team than you do solo though you CAN solo if you have to or want to, I hope SWTOR will have a way to strongly encourage teaming.

I haven't seen any screenshots of "oversized" weapons, I only saw the pre-alpha screenshot and things looked normal in that picture except a tad cartoony

Originally posted by Holice

But the real thing i wanted to comment on was I read alot of posts about soloing and grouping and whether either should be mandated.  Im always a fan of why not both, If someone wants to solo, let them solo, if someone wants to group, let them group. Why have any barriers in the way of attracting more population? People forget that this is a game first and foremost, so when people make the comment that nothing should be spoon fed, they are forgetting that games are supposed to be fun, not nerve racking. But on the flip side, as some people want to play games to be challenged they should have that kind of content too. Wow did a good job with that, where there was plenty of easy solo content for days you just wanted to relax, and some real nice party encounters for when you wanted to be on your game and knew you had a chance to wipe. IMO, a developer should do everything in their power to cater to the needs of as many as possible. Thus providing a larger, more full world.

The problem is the people that want to solo the entire time want the exact same gear as someone who takes the time to get a group of people together to kill the harder stuff.

I am not looking for my EQ raiding days back..god knows I loved them though.  If someone is willing to work together and accomplish something that is not possible to solo they should get better stuff...otherwise whats the point of even putting it in there?  If I can get just as good of gear as the guy taking on a npc 200x tougher than the solo one why should I even bother?  Only an idiot would do something like that.  Unless its very end game content and at the top tier of equipment for the game currently your just going to replace it anyway once you level past it.  Much easier to get that gear through the solo quests and move on.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

Originally posted by Elikal 

1) Aiming for a much younger audience with the cartoon graphics and oversized weapons and stuff is a mistake. A FAR greater part of the SW fandom and of MMOs today are older guys. Its just a fact, the MMO genre changed. Many people today are rather dads and moms of kids instead of kids.

 

I agree on this one, if it looks more like a game based on that SW cartoon on Cartoon Netowrk than SW itself no thanks, I won't even take a look at it in that case.

Same here, first impressions are that this game is being aimed at 8-12 yr olds(or ppl whose IQ is there abouts) maybe they are wrong but i doubt it more and more

hopefully STO will do better

Originally posted by ventje

I am an SWG vet myself, and first of all let me explain what really attracted me to SWG;

- the sheer number of possibilities there were, i.a. 10000000 things to do.. it sounds strange because people complained about end game content but i never ever was bored..

- the possibility to play a jedi, but, it has to be VERY hard to acomplish this imho.

- the lore offc.. Im a huge SW fan.

Now, i honestly thing that BW and LA can make this happen, those 3 points are no problem for them at all. The only thing what really would make a setback for me personally is that Jedi would be a starting class.. that would really suck tbh.

For the rest i know biowares games and i have no doubt in my mind that this game will be superfuntime.

I just got done posting this some place else, but I will post it here as well.  This was to someone who had obvious ties to SWG , which i do as well. But with that said, I believe people need to let go of this, cause you could be very disappointed. Below was a response to the same point of jedi not being a starting class. here ya go...

I cannot agree with your above statement. I am going to quote one of your sources wookiepedia, "[edit] Training Main article: Jedi training
Padawans would typically go on missions with their Jedi Masters to learn from experience; here Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi on a mission to Naboo.Almost all youthful Jedi were initially called Younglings and instructed in "clans" by a venerable, experienced Jedi Master, learning the ways of the Jedi and the powers of the Force. After Ruusan it had become normal that the [Jedi trainees were always children]. Once Yavin 4 had been established as Jedi headquarters, the Jedi initiates, which were no longer children, were trained first under the direction of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, and, in time, under another Master's direction in groups. When the New Jedi Order began, the Younglings were again trained in clans from childhood.When an individual student achieved satisfactory understanding of the Jedi way, they were usually taken under the wing of another Jedi member and instructed individually to complete their training. Masters typically brought their Padawans along on missions, and later sent them on missions of their own, to allow them to gain experience and learn from practice."
 

With that said, The class of Jedi should not be an unlockable job. If becoming a Jedi was purely based on training from a young age, then why would anyone suggest that it would be a unlockable job? Based on the portion that was quoted, it would suggest that a Jedi should be a starting class. Not one that you could work into. I would say that Kyle Katarn would be an exception to the rule but again it is an EXCEPTION versus the rule. In this case if we were to suggest that Bioware would have to make it a unlockable job then we are definitely making the job an EXCEPTION and not the rule. If this is to curb the amount of people of playing Jedi then have to be other ways.

Such as nerfing the class until you get to level 30, Simple abilities can not be unlocked at low levels. Jedi have been known to have a low armor class, that could be an area to expose. There is other ways to do this and the ones that I have stated were examples not the solution.....Making parity will be a creative task for Bioware & a must! But simply making it something that you have to unlock is attempting to not only work harder at trying to obtain the job, but it seems that if you put more time in than the other guy/gal, then you should be rewarded....... That sounds LAME!

If you are going to play the game to be a Jedi you should start that way. This isnt SWG where they are going to make it an obtainable job after you have Mastered 4 professions. That is what caused its demise in the first place. When SOE learned of how many people were leaving the game cause the impossiblity to be able to devote that much time into game was simply ridiculous. People do have lives outside of Video games! This should be an escape from the real world, when you can escape you should be able to enjoy your Jedi, not loath the idea that you have to Master 4 professions then you can be a Jedi.

My point..... This is why I am excited about Bioware making this game. They are well aware of SWG's issues and what has been a dismal game since that change. People were dissappointed that they worked so hard to get to Jedi, while others either could not simply put that much time into get to Jedi or the latter..... Simply put and maybe harder to do, creating this parity for the Jedi class to allow other Characters/Classes to be able to inter mingle will be a big task for Bioware and will have to be pursued with a lot of diligence and objective thinking. Something that I believe Bioware has the ability to do and implement.

Originally posted by Proximo521

Originally posted by ventje

I am an SWG vet myself, and first of all let me explain what really attracted me to SWG;

- the sheer number of possibilities there were, i.a. 10000000 things to do.. it sounds strange because people complained about end game content but i never ever was bored..

- the possibility to play a jedi, but, it has to be VERY hard to acomplish this imho.

- the lore offc.. Im a huge SW fan.

Now, i honestly thing that BW and LA can make this happen, those 3 points are no problem for them at all. The only thing what really would make a setback for me personally is that Jedi would be a starting class.. that would really suck tbh.

For the rest i know biowares games and i have no doubt in my mind that this game will be superfuntime.

 

I just got done posting this some place else, but I will post it here as well.  This was to someone who had obvious ties to SWG , which i do as well. But with that said, I believe people need to let go of this, cause you could be very disappointed. Below was a response to the same point of jedi not being a starting class.

here ya go...

I cannot agree with your above statement. I am going to quote one of your sources wookiepedia, "[edit] Training Main article: Jedi training
Padawans would typically go on missions with their Jedi Masters to learn from experience; here Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi on a mission to Naboo.Almost all youthful Jedi were initially called Younglings and instructed in "clans" by a venerable, experienced Jedi Master, learning the ways of the Jedi and the powers of the Force. After Ruusan it had become normal that the [Jedi trainees were always children]. Once Yavin 4 had been established as Jedi headquarters, the Jedi initiates, which were no longer children, were trained first under the direction of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, and, in time, under another Master's direction in groups. When the New Jedi Order began, the Younglings were again trained in clans from childhood.When an individual student achieved satisfactory understanding of the Jedi way, they were usually taken under the wing of another Jedi member and instructed individually to complete their training. Masters typically brought their Padawans along on missions, and later sent them on missions of their own, to allow them to gain experience and learn from practice."
 

With that said, The class of Jedi should not be an unlockable job. If becoming a Jedi was purely based on training from a young age, then why would anyone suggest that it would be a unlockable job? Based on the portion that was quoted, it would suggest that a Jedi should be a starting class. Not one that you could work into. I would say that Kyle Katarn would be an exception to the rule but again it is an EXCEPTION versus the rule. In this case if we were to suggest that Bioware would have to make it a unlockable job then we are definitely making the job an EXCEPTION and not the rule. If this is to curb the amount of people of playing Jedi then have to be other ways.

Such as nerfing the class until you get to level 30, Simple abilities can not be unlocked at low levels. Jedi have been known to have a low armor class, that could be an area to expose. There is other ways to do this and the ones that I have stated were examples not the solution.....Making parity will be a creative task for Bioware & a must! But simply making it something that you have to unlock is attempting to not only work harder at trying to obtain the job, but it seems that if you put more time in than the other guy/gal, then you should be rewarded....... That sounds LAME!

If you are going to play the game to be a Jedi you should start that way. This isnt SWG where they are going to make it an obtainable job after you have Mastered 4 professions. That is what caused its demise in the first place. When SOE learned of how many people were leaving the game cause the impossiblity to be able to devote that much time into game was simply ridiculous. People do have lives outside of Video games! This should be an escape from the real world, when you can escape you should be able to enjoy your Jedi, not loath the idea that you have to Master 4 professions then you can be a Jedi.

My point..... This is why I am excited about Bioware making this game. They are well aware of SWG's issues and what has been a dismal game since that change. People were dissappointed that they worked so hard to get to Jedi, while others either could not simply put that much time into get to Jedi or the latter..... Simply put and maybe harder to do, creating this parity for the Jedi class to allow other Characters/Classes to be able to inter mingle will be a big task for Bioware and will have to be pursued with a lot of diligence and objective thinking. Something that I believe Bioware has the ability to do and implement.

I was merely trying to assess Jedi as a starting class. Which I believe that Bioware can do. But after thinking about it. There are other ways than I suggested and one that I thought of came from Final Fantasy online.

I played FF for 4 years and ended up loving this game obviously. It had its own problems... Grouping and the particular grind was outrageous.

But for example, Samurai was an unlockable job. You could only get the advance jobs if you reached level 30 (did not matter what job it was, as long as it was level 30) and did the Samurai quest in order to achieve the status of Samurai. You would need assistance to do the Quest but it was an experience that I was able to share with some of my friends that played FF and were willing to help.

I believe this would work for what you are looking for. Although, since Jedi  is a integral part of the story of Star Wars it would be hard to suggest that it cannot be a "starting class". Although, i think it should be, the method I stated above would work for me. But I do believe if there is no other way for Bioware to apply this to there MMO, then this method should work.....

For me as a SWG vet I really want to move past SWG. I know SWTOR will not be a sandpit and I can live with that even though I do not trust Lucas Arts as a management team for any MMORPG they are involved in. 

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Originally posted by Karahandras

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Originally posted by AgtSmith

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Originally posted by Elikal 

1) Aiming for a much younger audience with the cartoon graphics and oversized weapons and stuff is a mistake. A FAR greater part of the SW fandom and of MMOs today are older guys. Its just a fact, the MMO genre changed. Many people today are rather dads and moms of kids instead of kids.

---

 
I agree on this one, if it looks more like a game based on that SW cartoon on Cartoon Netowrk than SW itself no thanks, I won't even take a look at it in that case.

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Same here, first impressions are that this game is being aimed at 8-12 yr olds(or ppl whose IQ is there abouts) maybe they are wrong but i doubt it more and more
hopefully STO will do better

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Could someone please clear something up for me. Whats STO? I understand this game is TOR, which stands for, "The Old Republic" so what exactly is STO?  Thanks :)

Now, I tried SWG the first day it was released. I played it for a week and couldn't get into the game due to all the problems it had. But, a couple years passed and many SWG fans referred to the game as the holy grail of MMO's,, before the dreadful NGE of course. Which was basically the same way I think about the Ooooold Everquest before PoP was introduced...  Anyway, ever since those nightmarish changes to SWG, the true hardcore fans of the game they came to love pleaded for either a pre NGE server, or a completely new SWG game with new tweaks and improvements.

When I first read Bioware was making a, "new and improved Stars Wars MMO" I immediately went to check it out. After reading the overview, my excitement quickly faded and i let out a very loooong sigh.. :(  Personally, as an avid 10 year MMORPG fan, I don't want to see a new Star wars MMO be turned into some single player structured platform game with the "option" of playing with a few friends if they want. I'M SORRY, BUT THATS NOT A TRUE MMORPG. This game will only appeal to young kids, and give it a couple months before they get bored doing the same old stuff and this game will fail because it's not a true MMORPG.  Why did AoC fail?? Well because the game claims to be an MMORPG, BUT what i played was a single player rpg with a chat box. Thats not immersive. It's boring playing a game designed to be a MMORPG by yourself. If I wanted to play a structured rpg, i'd do so on my PS3, and not on my pc.

Originally posted by oakthornn

Could someone please clear something up for me. Whats STO? I understand this game is TOR, which stands for, "The Old Republic" so what exactly is STO?  Thanks :) Star Trek Online

 

Now, I tried SWG the first day it was released. I played it for a week and couldn't get into the game due to all the problems it had. But, a couple years passed and many SWG fans referred to the game as the holy grail of MMO's,, before the dreadful NGE of course. Which was basically the same way I think about the Ooooold Everquest before PoP was introduced...  Anyway, ever since those nightmarish changes to SWG, the true hardcore fans of the game they came to love pleaded for either a pre NGE server, or a completely new SWG game with new tweaks and improvements.

When I first read Bioware was making a, "new and improved Stars Wars MMO" I immediately went to check it out. After reading the overview, my excitement quickly faded and i let out a very loooong sigh.. :( Same here  Personally, as an avid 10 year MMORPG fan, I don't want to see a new Star wars MMO be turned into some single player structured platform game with the "option" of playing with a few friends if they want. I'M SORRY, BUT THATS NOT A TRUE MMORPG. This game will only appeal to young kids, and give it a couple months before they get bored doing the same old stuff and this game will fail because it's not a true MMORPG.  Why did AoC fail?? Well because the game claims to be an MMORPG, BUT what i played was a single player rpg with a chat box. Thats not immersive. It's boring playing a game designed to be a MMORPG by yourself. If I wanted to play a structured rpg, i'd do so on my PS3, and not on my pc. I'm guessing they have the console kiddie  market firmly in their crosshairs which is why we are getting what we are getting

 

personnaly i was hoping for a decent, at least semi mature star wars MMORPG something like KOTOR+, more open and more depth

my first impressions,however, are that it's more KOTOR-, basically a kids version of KOTOR with some pvp tacked on the end

it may change it may not(i'm leaning towards not), i'll have to wait and see with fingers crossed

Now before there is more SWG vet bashing, which seems to incredible fashionable, lets make one thing clear: so far I have seen NONE of us who said TOR should be like SWG,and neither did I say that.

I am just a bloke with a long list of games I played and I have played games with possibilities which other games have not. I have seen freedom in MMOs, visions, real fantastic things, and many people who played SWG dream of those FEATURES, which they lack. We are kinda like advocates of "cuisine", the art of cooking real meals in a land where most people never ate anything but Fast Food. You grew up with burgers and dont know better, so I understand some of you are sceptical. Sure, making a real meal takes more time and need more work, but trust me: once you make it right, its worth it. And so with a better vision of TOR.

NEVER did I say I want TOR to be like SWG. That would be terrible. BUT: learning from good features in existing MMOs is nothing to be ashamed of, and some of those features only existed in SWG. Bioware, TOR and every new MMO gamer would only profit from those features, we know how they worked and how good they were. The only folly is totally casting aside any advice and report of experienced gamers. As the history of the MMOs published in the last 2 years, NOT listening to those with experience ALWAYS meant that those companies shot themselves in the knee. The list of failed MMOs is long enough to BE concerned.

Its not like we wanna cut something from TOR which is precious to you, but add what we know from experience is fun. We want to see the design expanded, extended and made richer, more complex, because as a Star Wars fan I am convinced the IP deserves more than a lackluster, mediocre standard fare. I think all real Star Wars fans should unite in that interest and not work against it. Unless you WANT delibaretely TOR to fail, of course.

i'm sorry but you are all so far off base it's not even funny. You are basing judgement off a game that noone knows anything about but some alpha artwork, title, and its level based, dev acknowledgement that players enjoy an open world, and with story driven parts.

Thats it. Level based is NOT bad, look at oblivion, kotor and a multitude of other games where these level based systems provide more customization and depth than any non level system. How do you know they arent going this route? How do you know with stylized graphics, that when shaders and lighting/shadows are added its not going to look gritty? How do you know the game wont be open with only a linear main story line?

Guess what you don't. I am tired of reading people constantly typing on a forum, where they act like armchair developers, that "this is game is not for me" or " this game is going to fail" or "stop copying wow". Seriously, NOONE knows what this game is like.

And SWG vets, get over, i played longer than any one of you, from early closed beta till a year and a half ago. Do i miss it, yes, do i wish it would come back, of course. But i dont cry doom and gloom on every game because it was a great game and noone has tried to remake it. Guess what, you are NOT the gods of the mmorpg industry, in fact, being a vet, you make us all look like whiney brats. You wanna play the classic swg...go ahead, there's a group of people bringing your game back. But stop the whining and trying to preach your word to every one else. I got over the fact that the game is long and gone, but even when i was still pissed about it, i  never forced my views at every one else.

Bioware will make a game they envision, and that's all that matters. You want it back so bad, support the other project, or learn to make games yourself. Just because you a disgruntled ex swg player does not give you any intrinsic weight over how developement of a new star wars game should be.

Originally posted by miagisan

Bioware will make a game they envision, and that's all that matters.

I'm not going to agree with you on that at all..

Bioware will make the game Lucas Arts tells them to... or they wouldn't have access to the license... and that is .. all.

It will be Biowares vision of what Lucas Arts dictates.. but it will be.. what LA wants.

As to the OP talking about the graphics and what they percieve the game being aimed for...   

My personal view is that they are doing what they feel they need to... In order to obtain a subscription base that is proper for an IP like Star Wars.  More or less once upon a time a lot of LEC and SOE people kept talking about not having the subscription level that they felt an IP like Star Wars should have.

So they are going to create a game from the start.. to try and capture that market.  I'm not saying its good or bad.. its just easy to see what they are trying to do and why.

The only thing that bothers me about the entire project...

Is that people think BioWare is some "holy" development house that will make the perfect product because its "BioWare".

Yet they seem to have no concept that the problem in the equation is Lucas Arts.. if you have ever actually worked with them on a project... you would know...

i dont think bioware is the holy grail of gaming, but like i said, we know nothing about the game, hence, we have no idea what the game is going to play like nor do we have enough info to cry doom yet

Originally posted by miagisan

i dont think bioware is the holy grail of gaming, but like i said, we know nothing about the game, hence, we have no idea what the game is going to play like nor do we have enough info to cry doom yet

Based on the FAQ, it states that most of the game can be completed by yourself, but there are some aspects of the game that will require a group to complete. This alone definitely does not sound appealing to me. But i guess i'll still keep an eye on it just in case..

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Originally posted by Antarious

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Originally posted by miagisan

Bioware will make a game they envision, and that's all that matters.

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I'm not going to agree with you on that at all..
Bioware will make the game Lucas Arts tells them to... or they wouldn't have access to the license... and that is .. all.
It will be Biowares vision of what Lucas Arts dictates.. but it will be.. what LA wants.
As to the OP talking about the graphics and what they percieve the game being aimed for...

The only thing that bothers me about the entire project...
Is that people think BioWare is some "holy" development house that will make the perfect product because its "BioWare".
Yet they seem to have no concept that the problem in the equation is Lucas Arts.. if you have ever actually worked with them on a project... you would know...

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I am going to disagree with you. Firstly - Star Wars was a failing license for games until Bioware released KOTOR and showed it was possible to make a blockbuster Star Wars title. I cant see Lucas Arts doing another SWG.

Secondly - a lot of WOW's initial success in terms of numbers was due to Blizzard's name in the gaming industry for releasing great games. A reputation that Bioware has for RPG's.

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Companies should listen to their core audience, not imaginary shores which may or may not be interested and the core audience just IS the former SWG audience, like it or not

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Originally posted by happilpie

Originally posted by Holice

But the real thing i wanted to comment on was I read alot of posts about soloing and grouping and whether either should be mandated.  Im always a fan of why not both, If someone wants to solo, let them solo, if someone wants to group, let them group. Why have any barriers in the way of attracting more population? People forget that this is a game first and foremost, so when people make the comment that nothing should be spoon fed, they are forgetting that games are supposed to be fun, not nerve racking. But on the flip side, as some people want to play games to be challenged they should have that kind of content too. Wow did a good job with that, where there was plenty of easy solo content for days you just wanted to relax, and some real nice party encounters for when you wanted to be on your game and knew you had a chance to wipe. IMO, a developer should do everything in their power to cater to the needs of as many as possible. Thus providing a larger, more full world.

 

The problem is the people that want to solo the entire time want the exact same gear as someone who takes the time to get a group of people together to kill the harder stuff.

I am not looking for my EQ raiding days back..god knows I loved them though.  If someone is willing to work together and accomplish something that is not possible to solo they should get better stuff...otherwise whats the point of even putting it in there?  If I can get just as good of gear as the guy taking on a npc 200x tougher than the solo one why should I even bother?  Only an idiot would do something like that.  Unless its very end game content and at the top tier of equipment for the game currently your just going to replace it anyway once you level past it.  Much easier to get that gear through the solo quests and move on.

Ive considered your point before as well, about how people would rather take the easy road to get the same gear offered at the end of the hard gear. But that just goes to show that people who say they want groups and teamwork really dont want it. Because if you did want to "earn" the gear you would take the time to do the hard raid encounters. But instead 99% of people would just take the easy road, and get the gear quicker. So you asked why would someone bother taking on an npc 200x tougher, well you would bother because you are looking for a challenge, and that should be reason enough.

Anyone can solo, plain and simple, just play by yourself and you are soloing. But not everyone can play on a team for a number of reasons such as time of day, time actually playing, no friends in game, most other people have outleveled them, etc. There are numerous reasons why group oriented games dont succeed, so its a death sentence any time a dev says its a party oriented game. So you need solo content for people to have fun during down times and when they want to relax, but also you can make solo pointless and only allow the good gear to go to those who have countless hours to invest in raids(ala WoW). So its a fine to promote group activity but dont hurt solo'ers in the process.

Originally posted by Elikal

Ok, I am sorry it rings like doomsaying, but its now or never. That Lucasarts guy in the IGN interview said you (Bioware) and Lucasarts now want to listen more than in SWG.

Now here is what I have to say:

You are making a BIG mistake. Sorry to say, but if you follow down that road as I see it, you are going to screw BIG time. Yeah, I am leaning out of the window way long saying this, but its my firm believe.

1) Aiming for a much younger audience with the cartoon graphics and oversized weapons and stuff is a mistake. A FAR greater part of the SW fandom and of MMOs today are older guys. Its just a fact, the MMO genre changed. Many people today are rather dads and moms of kids instead of kids. I know you think to catch the kids, but sorry to say many of them dont care a crap about Star Wars. They play faster paced games, and MOSTLY: those kids by and large have ZERO patience for stories. IF those kids play MMOs, they want MMOs where they dont need to think, like WOW. Moral dilemmas, story-driven characters and ethical choices are just not what a vast, vast number of kids will ever want. The entire story-driven idea of lasting moral choices is asking for a much more mature audience, an audience which by and large asks for a much more realistic graphics. So essentially you mix two things which dont belong together: serious story and cartoony design.

The graphics are not aimed at the younger audience. The graphics are for the gamer that likes to enjoy games where the graphics never get out dated.  This is why you don't use realistic graphics for a game that you want a 5 year+ shelf life on. Also the art direction allows for fluid animations and organic world elements ala...wow. Game economics 101 or at least in my opinon if I was running the show. Your character feels as though he is part of the world and not separate if they makes any sense.  Great for emersion and a slew of other things. 

2) Theme Park: Some Bioware guy said it in the recent Ten Ton Hammer interview and that word freaked the living hell out of me. One of the recently most criticized facts about Warhammer is the Theme Park design. In Warhammer I never felt like in a living, breathing world, but in a Disney Land Theme Park, hook nosed from event to event. Sure, it appeals some people, but it also creates a very sterile and confined experience, and in the long run such a game design can only loose. Why? Because NO one can make so many themes in a theme park as to entertain people such a long time. People need space to breath, to realize their OWN dreams and not be led through event tunnels with only left or right to chose in some conversation tree. I am all for stories which shape the character, but people NEED to have ordinary lives, only in that contrast the heroic things can stand out! If everything is a heroic story, NOTHING in the end matters anymore. People need an open world, they need to have choices and not an all guided theme park! They need the freedom to create their own lives, their own worlds, their own cities!

If theme parks are done in a certain way they can be cool.  However, if they make it linear then there could be some serious issues.  In SWG themeparks were out of the way and you could either stumble upon them or find an oddball quest that lead you there.  It was not forced down your throat and I agree that could be disastress. I also believe that Bioware makes great games and believe that this will turn out fine as it is in capable hands.

3) Dont make this game a soloing heaving. I never understood the drive to support the all-soloing thing. Why do people subscribe to MMOs, when they want to solo all the time? Now the problem is, once you allow all to be soloed, most people DO solo most of the time. You NEED to make obstacles only to be overcome by groups, by social organization, by working together, or people will not form groups. Its just reality, and the last thing Star Wars deserves is a story-soloing world, where everyone is alone in his story and the only thing people do together is a public chat channel. That would be no MMO! I hear a lot of things people can do alone, their lone stories, their solo experience, their companions to replace the REAL human players. I hear zero about working together, about forming teams. Wasnt that the thing to go to MMOs? Where is the "we" in all of this? People need social bonds to stay in a MMO, and social bonds are formed when a game demands it. Many people who ask for all soloing in reality dont stay in MMOs long. They quick solo their way up in 2-3 months and skip to the next big thing. It has little value for both the company or the gamers to make a game too solo friendly.

 Another point I agree on, social interaction is a great thing in a MMO and something many lack as of late.

4) Dont try to make a better WOW. Really, dont. EVERY other approach to make WOW 2 failed capital. Dont peek at those astronomic subscriber numbers of WOW, because thats the surest road NOT to reach them. Innovate, dont imitate. It just doesnt pay, there is ONE WOW, and there can be no 2nd. Its just that simple. Many games tried to make the WOW-recipe just better, but so far all of them failed. Have the courage to make your own thing, to stay true to the artistic style you invented with KOTOR and LISTEN to the experience of us SWG vets. We have a few years of experience with how a good Star Wars MMO can run and what capital mistakes to avoid. LISTEN to our experience! SOE didnt, and they paid the price for it. A wise person listens to the experience of others, even if you want to make a different approach, dont just brush us off.

Once again this is not SoE it is Bioware/EA/Lucasarts all of whome produce/publish titles far superior than anything SoE could ever muster up. I don't believe they will make a game like WoW but I do believe they will use many of the great elements it brought to the MMO table.  One was making the world seemless as possible. Two, was making sure the world was rich with content. Three, player interaction/solo availability is great and 50/50. There is so much here I could go on and on.  I would not listen to the SWG vets or very few of them, most are so jaded and disrespectful in the way they demand and QQ about stuff 5 years later is distasteful. 

I say let the developers make the game they have visioned and not let you or anyone else skew there direction.  I hope they make the game they wanna make and not the SWG vets, I being one included.  I want something new and refreshing, bonus is... it is set in the Starwars Universe and being made by my favorite developers. Im sure they will have lots of innovative ideas to add to the mmo marketplace.  Time will tell.

Sure, you can say, we are expert Devs, we know better, go ahead. So many game Devs DIDNT listen to their player base, and if you take a look at your forum you will see where it burns! You will see a huge trend what people want. Ignore it at your own risk. We told you, and I say to you, you are about to take the wrong road, Bioware.

Blizzard didn't listen to thier fanbase in the begining and produce a bombshell of a game.  It also reached 11 million subscribers. I believe taking some input from the community is great but only once the finish product is complete.  EA/Bioware/Lucasarts have so much talent it is sick, I leave it to the pros and let us joes critique thier masterpiece.