Seriously?

Either MMO subscription statistics is either a new MMO that nobody told me about or hating on every single title out there is the new cool thing to do.

Does anybody here play any game... at all..? Pacman? Anything?

I'm 2 seconds away from taking a loan outta the bank and making a MMO that all you do is bash on all other MMOs and point out their highs and lows in subscription numbers. I'm going to be a millionaire over night cause thats clearly where it's at this days.

Would that be Un-WoW clone/ sandbox enough for you all?

LOL couldn't agree more, but its obvious that most here seem to make a living bashing MMO's into the ground.  Funny part is they can't agree on anything that would make a game good, but only that the said game is the worse game to ever see the light of day.If a game doesn't meet their unrealistic goals, the developers are trolls who personally made the game to torment them.

LOL, as of late?

No, MMO's have been the stomping ground for money machine's! They have less fun than  an mere console game. If you dispute that then, I say look at all the ASIA games and there Item shop's! They take too long to develop and cost way to much, that is why people are pissed!

Lol, sometimes you have to wonder don't you.  I'm really surprised for example when people start talking about how much a game sucks, and it isn't even ready for beta testing yet.  I suppose they might not like some of the advertised content or the business model, but some of the criticism years in advance of release in some cases just seems silly.

On the other hand, a lot of MMO companies have really done this genre a disservice.  Broken releases, unwanted revamps, massive deletion of ingame accomplishments, outright deceptive marketting.  I have to tell you, a lot of that has definitely tarnished what could be a really fun and innovative market.

One of the big issues in this regard is simply corporate greed in a new technological field that has some loose ends regarding regulation.  Some companies really push the enevlope in terms of their business ethics and people simply get burned.  This feeling easily carries over into other games unfortunately where a nerf reminds them of a massive rip off, and opens up old wounds.

SOE is rather infamous for this, but they're not alone.  I'm thinking of taking a break from the genre until there's a little less corporate bullsh*t, more quality, and more protection for customers.

Having said that, I'll probably try Bioware's upcoming StarWars MMO because they've always put quality and customer service high on their list of priorities.  I also don't think they'd let LucasArts push them around.  I'll also give Emmert's upcoming StarTrek MMO a try.  Same reasons really, Cryptic has always put quality, customers and fun high in their list of priorities.  That's what makes for good gaming.  There are some people who seem to get this right, too many others however seem to busy themselves pouring flies into the soup.

Originally posted by buegur

LOL couldn't agree more, but its obvious that most here seem to make a living bashing MMO's into the ground.  Funny part is they can't agree on anything that would make a game good, but only that the said game is the worse game to ever see the light of day.If a game doesn't meet their unrealistic goals, the developers are trolls who personally made the game to torment them.

Well,lets see.ummmm can you show me a good MMO?? Can you show me a bad MMO?? Then  what makes your statement any better??
 

Answer......NONE of the current ones.NONE.

These games are so big and have so many players with diverse playstyles that every game, no matter how good, will have a subset of critics who do not like the game.  For example, I like non-linear sandbox type games with lots of freedom, heavy emphasis on player crafting, city-building, in-game housing, and lots of focus on itemization and treasure hunting.  My goals are at odds with lots of other people who like linear games, or who like games not based on gear/itemization, or like games with strict economic controls (e.g. bind on pickup) and limited if any player crafting.  These are only a few examples out of so many varying concepts in mmos that they don't even touch the surface of other concepts such as player-generated content, pvp, etc.  In the end it is simply inevitable that we will disagree on every game that comes out, thus making it look like everyone here hates mmos.

I enjoy MMOs

I'm both a sandbox fan and themepark fan.

Themepark: Playing WAR full time and LotRO on and off, both are fun.

Sandbox: Playing EvE Online and Ryzom for my sandbox fix, Eve is just pimp as hell and Ryzom is a decent little game that I hope to replace with either Darkfall or Earthrise.

WHile I'm a fan of both MMO types I am a little pissed that todays devs havent given me a new fantasy sandbox in ten plus years.

Yes, I love MMOs.  That's why I'm so willing to criticize them.  The truth is, if I didn't care about MMOs I wouldn't say anything about them.  I just don't like bad ones.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of those.

I think the problem is that many of the games are similar.  What will eventually happen is that with the advance of technology and the lack of consumer demand for the current decade of MMO's, brighter minds will break through with a game that actually raises the bar to a new level. 

Since Everquest, there has not been much that has really improved upon in these types of games.  Eve on-line is the only exception in my mind,  and it is not for everyone. 

What will come in the next ten years?  For one thing, I believe the heavy client model is a problem.   Two much emphasis is placed on the performance of the client hardware and the purchase and installation of client software in a precise hardware configuration.  That should become outdated in the future.  A well designed game should be accessible from multiple locations and many different types of thin client devices, yet still deliver an engrossing game experience.

Secondly, the games themselves.  Right now, two types of MMO's hold the field.  Type 1 is level based and pretty much provides a linear road from level 1 to the highest level.  Developers throw in skill trees to try and make it different.  Type 2 is skill based.  You train a skill and then train another skill, and another one, and another one.....  In both type 1 and type 2 games you acquire items, usually for the purpose of becoming more powerful.

Permadeath does not exist in MMO games today (yeah, someone will point out some left field exception - forget it).  Sex does not exist.  Child bearing does not exist.  No one creates a world where you can become a lesser god and create a world within that world.  Real disease does not exist (the kind that will kill you in 2 real life months resulting in permadeath).  Perhaps you could then leave a will for your other characters....  Eve is one of the only games to exist on a single server (China server excluded). 

There is so much left to be done in these games.  Step 1 however, is to pull yourself out of the structure that Gary Gygax (spelling?) and company (TSR) made famous.  Step 2 is realize that EQ was a point in time concept and implementation.  WOW improved upon that same formula.  The other games pretty much tailor that formula in many different ways, but it is still pretty similar.

The next game that rocks everyone's world will be nothing like these games.  Look at the examples I list above (sex, permadeath, disease, child bearing, creating pieces of the world, even rule modification e.g. Magic The Gathering concepts). 

So, I don't think people hate MMO's.  We've simply seen alot of them and we need to move on.

Originally posted by jp4lyfe

I'm 2 seconds away from taking a loan outta the bank and making a MMO that all you do is bash on all other MMOs and point out their highs and lows in subcription numbers.

Any plans to add the PvP feature sooner or later?

You will get my subscription for sure though.

I like some mmos I hate most free 2 play mmorpgs that I have personally played. Most of those I gave a really good shot. Take sword of the new world for example I got to level 100/120 on there, Took me a good 3 months, Still hate it, Did raids, pvp, pve, still hate it. I think I gave it a fair enough shot.  My reason to hate it is quite simple, All the quests are identical all about killing X number of Y mob, It never gets out of that context (If it does it is talk to an npc).

The entire game is based on grind, little exploration and anything outside the grind. There is really very little real content in sword of the new world, I consider everything where you just sit in one spot and kill stuff not content, so take all that out and SoTNW is really only a 2 hour worth of game play game.

Basically as I see it there are two classes of posters around here.

First class is people who discuss mmo's.  They praise them.  They bash them.  They offer constructive criticism, wish lists, etc.  This in my view is what the forums are really for here.

Second class is people who discuss those who discuss mmo's.  These gamers offer little to no input on how to improve games.  They just sit around grumbling about the community and often times with this air of superiority that is really not deserved.   It's like going to a football game and instead of watching and commenting on the game, they are grumbling about how they don't like the fan two rows down.  Sorry, but with that kind of distraction and cynicism they are really missing the whole point.

why do people keep counting eve as a mmorpg? interesting online game yes, but we dont count every online game as a mmorpg (a tale in the desert III for example).

the whole acronym mmorpg is completely stupid when you think about it. i play all sorts of games and if they would put out a DEEP innovative online rpg (sci-fi all the better) i will play it, if for no other reason than to talk crap about it. that doesnt happen though...oh yay more elf hunters...how very original. the fact is the mmorpg's cant keep up with their semi-online or offline contemporaries as far as immersion, gameplay, PLOT, or character development. they are just kind of floundering, minimal progress is being made to the genre (where is a mmo Crysis though i hate that game too, shit where is a mmo Portal).

i think people post here under the misconception that devs read the posts and gives a rats ass. personally i do it to try and promote logic and reasoning in making decisions as to how large amounts of free time will be spent, and if you let the fanboys do all the talking the world becomes an all too agreeable place.

Um...Because Eve IS an mmorpg? It's massive multiplayer. It's online. You develop a character through getting equipment, armor (ships), skills, and you go out and kill things. Not only that, there are a lot of people in the game who ROLE PLAY. So, if Eve isn't an mmorpg, what is it? 

not any of the new ones no ... its sad that the best MMO is still EQ1 and that was developed so many years ago . if you say otherwise you haven't played it or couldn't "hack it" in EQ1.

Second best was SWG but for different reasons to me that was a true MMORPG a living world . thats what MMOs should aspire to be a living world genre not some bullsh!t single player RPG. its crazy that single player RPGs are going more of the Sandbox route and MMORPGs are trying to become Single player RPGs.

most MMOs are dumbed down wanna be singleplayer game with little to no innovation ... aka "Mainstream".

Originally posted by Ravanos

not any of the new ones no ... its sad that the best MMO is still EQ1 and that was developed so many years ago . if you say otherwise you haven't played it or couldn't "hack it" in EQ1.

I agree on that... I mean it may had the downsides of terrible naked corpse runs, times of sitting around forever LFG and times when you litterally LOSE your corpse cause you have no clue exactly where you died.

/ooc Has anyone seen my corpse?

Oddly enough it was those same things that made me love EQ1 so much. You really felt in the world and eveything was scary. In a lot  situations for many classes an even con mob would kick your face in 1v1. Back in the old days that is, no twink, no maps etc.. It was great.

I remember when I first started with some friends and we were grouping in crushbone, pure noobs. If we pulled 1 extra mob or pulled a Legionaire we all would take off running to the zone lines screaming for our lives.. Good times.. <3

What about you? do you like them? what are you doing here? do you play any game at all? Then go play it.

Originally posted by jp4lyfe

Seriously?

 

Either MMO subscription statistics is either a new MMO that nobody told me about or hating on every single title out there is the new cool thing to do.

 

Does anybody here play any game... at all..? Pacman? Anything?

 

I'm 2 seconds away from taking a loan outta the bank and making a MMO that all you do is bash on all other MMOs and point out their highs and lows in subscription numbers. I'm going to be a millionaire over night cause thats clearly where it's at this days.

 

Would that be Un-WoW clone/ sandbox enough for you all?

No no one likes mmos here im 89% sure of it.

No game is good enough etc etc.

Originally posted by jp4lyfe

Originally posted by Ravanos

not any of the new ones no ... its sad that the best MMO is still EQ1 and that was developed so many years ago . if you say otherwise you haven't played it or couldn't "hack it" in EQ1.

 

I agree on that... I mean it may had the downsides of terrible naked corpse runs, times of sitting around forever LFG and times when you litterally LOSE your corpse cause you have no clue exactly where you died.

 

/ooc Has anyone seen my corpse?

Oddly enough it was those same things that made me love EQ1 so much. You really felt in the world and eveything was scary. In a lot  situations for many classes an even con mob would kick your face in 1v1. Back in the old days that is, no twink, no maps etc.. It was great.

 

I remember when I first started with some friends and we were grouping in crushbone, pure noobs. If we pulled 1 extra mob or pulled a Legionaire we all would take off running to the zone lines screaming for our lives.. Good times.. <3

LOL yes good times indeed and people were much friendlier in those games ... now in games like WoW if you said /ooc has anyone seen my corpse (if they had corpse runs mind you). you would get "LOL noob L2p".

I remember getting random tells from people saying "hey im standing near your corpse ... let me drag it to you".

To me thats the problem with the solo oriented games now a days is it doesn't build community. when i played EQ1 at the end game I could tell you about MANY on the server because I spent so much time grouped up with them. You knew ... "oh hes a good tank, shes a good healers" "oh that guys a jerk".