http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3570-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-25-Philosophy

Darkfall Dev Journal: Philosophy
Article by Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer, Darkfall)

In this journal we'll talk a little about our beta testing process, about playtesting, our philosophy on announcing a release date, and I also have some comments on the reactions to the last journal.

Darkfall is feature complete and we're doing beta testing using professional testers as we've said before. Our policy on testing has always been that it's to aid the developers in making Darkfall as stable as possible, and not to aid some artificial goal like investor relations, or public relations. We don't care about that and the effectiveness of testing based on these goals is very questionable judging by the beta leaks everyone is accustomed to and which have been hurting the games in question. It's also not good for the players because they usually don't enjoy the experience. We don't expect playtesting to sort out major problems, other than getting reports on hardware configurations and further testing out some gameplay features.

We prefer to do our testing this way so by the time we get to the playtesting, we'll have as close to the actual game as possible. We would like to let the playtesting carry on for a while uninterrupted just like the actual game would be instead of allowing access for a few days here and there. That's the best way to decide if the game is fun, something you really can't have an opinion on when it's not near-complete. In the playtesting phase, we're not looking for testers, we're looking for players, the same way most people enter a beta: to try out and play the game rather than help the developer with quality assurance.

Darkfall testing put simply consists of testing each and every feature of the game and all associated features in a pyramid structure. It's not the same as testing a railroad, linear game. There's no path to follow, Darkfall is a sandbox game and we have to make allowances for numerous combinations of occurrences. Take the closest Darkfall comes to anything scripted: even in quests there is no instancing and there are more than one ways to complete it including PvP ways. There is no single set of actions and the end justifies the means.

Something that Darkfall has that other games may lack during testing is help from the AI. In Darkfall the game doesn't really distinguish between a player and the AI. The AI are bots actually living their life and skilling up within the game. The AI has been helping us test a large part of the game almost as if players were in it.

Our tools allow us to test features locally, we can run servers on any operating system and we run multiple clients per machine to which anyone in the office can connect to, in order to assist with what's being tested. At the moment we're testing clans and conquest and we're continuing the terrain testing which has been a long process.

Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall.

continued on page 2

continued from page 1

In the last update, several people took exception having recognized a game they're playing, or a game they're waiting for in what I wrote. Different people identified different games and felt they had to defend them. The truth is that I wasn't referring to a single game and that definitely wasn't the point of that journal.

The point of the previous journal was that Darkfall is completely different, that we're putting so much into delivering gameplay and to giving players all the freedom to make the world anything they want without guiding them one way or another. We're not known for our graphics, because as with everything else we've been honest with them showing you the game's progression (who does that?), and yet today they're as good as anything out there. The bottom line is that, even if the feeling isn't mutual, we don't feel competitive towards other games because Darkfall is indeed a totally different game.

We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.

Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.

Thank you for reading.
 

Decided this deserved a thread since many are under the assumption closed beta hasn't started. This should clear a few misconceptions up atleast.

Nice, thanks for the effort. It would be even better if  you could highlight the important bits. Most people wouldn't bother reading all that.

Originally posted by Drukstylz

Nice, thanks for the effort. It would be even better if  you could highlight the important bits. Most people wouldn't bother reading all that.

I tried to highlight some thanks for the advice. It was hard because the majority of page one is an interesting read and pretty much explains it really well and answers many of the questions I have seen.

Funny how tasos writes: "Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. "

Weird because according to other statements, they went into "internal beta" back in 2006 and is now doing "beta testing" with proff. internal testers.

They cant even themselves figure out what beta is, so why dont we just go by the standards everyone else use:

Alpha is when only they are testing it internally.

Beta is when the public is testing the software.

By this definition they are still in alpha.

Originally posted by KhaelSan

Funny how tasos writes: "Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. "

Weird because according to other statements, they went into "internal beta" back in 2006 and is now doing "beta testing" with proff. internal testers.

They cant even themselves figure out what beta is, so why dont we just go by the standards everyone else use:

Alpha is when only they are testing it internally.

Beta is when the public is testing the software.

By this definition they are still in alpha.
 

Professional testers aren't brought in durring Alpha, first they internal test and make sure it is relatively functional. This is only people completely trusted by the company. It's far to early to let information leak out to potential competition. Close friends and Family may also participate. After that comes closed Beta which can either be done by professional testers which of course is the most reliable and generaly most expensive method or invite select members of the public which is far cheaper but far less reliable.

Now as far as there wording, please do realise that English is not there primary language. My french is very poor sometimes because I use a word similar to what I mean but not exactly what I mean leading to some strange faces at times lol.

All in all take it for what you will, there plan sounds solid on paper we have to wait for the end results now.

And by the way, Alpha's/internal testing are never considerd feature complete by there developers lol. This is a part where anything and everything can still change. Closed Beta is mainly fixes and such some things may change but are far less likely. Being feature complete puts it much closer to open beta than Alpha. But then again this is only comming from someone with about 10 years closed beta experience and 2 Alpha's. I was also only paid for very few of those Beta's.  

Originally posted by KhaelSan

Funny how tasos writes: "Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. "

Weird because according to other statements, they went into "internal beta" back in 2006 and is now doing "beta testing" with proff. internal testers.

They cant even themselves figure out what beta is, so why dont we just go by the standards everyone else use:

Alpha is when only they are testing it internally.

Beta is when the public is testing the software.

By this definition they are still in alpha.

This is not the right definition to development cycle phases ...

If you asking what it is here : the key indication for changing to Beta is the moment the piece of software is feature complete (almost feature complete  is good enough..because during Beta are still changes allowed)....public testing has nothing to do with when software is in beta phase..Alpha is if software is still in design phase...

Involving the public is just a step if PRIMARY criterion applies and that is the developers declare their piece of software as feature complete...

To when and if developer invite testers to test their software is up to them ...

Yes, Tasos says a lot of things. The problem is that most of what he says are lies. Like when he said in August of 2003 that beta will begin in a month. And he has been lying about beta ever since.

So I really don't understand how you can believe a word Tasos says.

Originally posted by ghoul31

Yes, Tasos says a lot of things. The problem is that most of what he says are lies. Like when he said in August of 2003 that beta will begin in a month. And he has been lying about beta ever since.

So I really don't understand how you can believe a word Tasos says.

 

 

Are you reffering to the closed Technical beta that started late 2003?

Anyways yes 2002* a beta was announced for 2003 and signups began, sadly this is at the same point in time when Razorwax was assemlated into Aventurine and they finalized there move to Greece. So they closed signups and pretty much canceld the beta.  In Spetember of 2005 signups for Clan closed beta began.  They also I believe said they planned one for 2007.  Now the problem with all of this is the fact that in each instance this was stated as the plan and never officialy stated as what was going to happen. When it did not happen many became angry and upset and felt lied to. Sad part is they weren't lied to. That was the actual plan for DarkFall, it didn't happen but it was never point blank said it would.

I honestly hate reminding people that in every case they bring up about how Aventurine has lied the players have taken what they said may happen or what they would like to happen as gospil. I mean if someone told me I might get a car if I jump off a cliff and I don't get one after I do...... who's fault is that? Mine lol.

So why believe them after so many percieved lies? Well because frankly they haven't said we hope or we're trying they have said it will release 2008, they also have things they have never had before. Server host, Publisher that kind of thing. Why do some believe? Simple there's supporting evidence to back it up and unlike previous times they have said it will happen lol sorry you are a bit jaded but honestly I have been following it a bit longer than you and haven't jumped on bored until recently when things were actualy in motion. I don't fool myself like some others apparently have then blame others for what I did to myself lol.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by ghoul31

Yes, Tasos says a lot of things. The problem is that most of what he says are lies. Like when he said in August of 2003 that beta will begin in a month. And he has been lying about beta ever since.

So I really don't understand how you can believe a word Tasos says.

 

 

 

Are you reffering to the closed Technical beta that started late 2003?

No , I'm talking about the players outside the company playtesting the game that he said would begin in september of 2003

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by KhaelSan

Funny how tasos writes: "Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. "

Weird because according to other statements, they went into "internal beta" back in 2006 and is now doing "beta testing" with proff. internal testers.

They cant even themselves figure out what beta is, so why dont we just go by the standards everyone else use:

Alpha is when only they are testing it internally.

Beta is when the public is testing the software.

By this definition they are still in alpha.

 

This is not the right definition to development cycle phases ...

If you asking what it is here : the key indication for changing to Beta is the moment the piece of software is feature complete (almost feature complete  is good enough..because during Beta are still changes allowed)....public testing has nothing to do with when software is in beta phase..Alpha is if software is still in design phase...

Involving the public is just a step if PRIMARY criterion applies and that is the developers declare their piece of software as feature complete...

To when and if developer invite testers to test their software is up to them ...

Well aventurine is not pressured by any investor, and they keep testing it untill its almost to a state that it can be relased to public perfect, my gues is when an open beta comes its, maybe one of most finished games ever to be relased to public in an open beta.
 

Maybe its even a worldrecord hehe.

They must have an enormous dicipline, alot of patience its almost unhuman how they handle this project.

What devs have done in last 7 or 8years is something almost never any other developer who was developing a mmo have done before.

So thats also why many believe in them, i think its very special game Darkfall, not only as a game but also how they have develop it and release it to public.

If its Bugfree and enough content and stable servers, this maybe when launched be best launched game ever in history of any game so far.

But i dont know its just my gut feeling about this that somehow this small indie team are making something special and also release it almost perfectly to plublic.

It can all be a totall failor to or a hoax  whatever, but for me its wurth waiting.

I did not say it becouse im fan of Darkfall)i am but i believe in this for many reasons i mentioned before) its becouse this kind of developing has never done before ever.

Hate this game if you want or not, you can't deny they have alot of dicepline patience and believe in there project.

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by ghoul31

Yes, Tasos says a lot of things. The problem is that most of what he says are lies. Like when he said in August of 2003 that beta will begin in a month. And he has been lying about beta ever since.

So I really don't understand how you can believe a word Tasos says.

 

 

 

Are you reffering to the closed Technical beta that started late 2003?

 

No , I'm talking about the players outside the company playtesting the game that he said would begin in september of 2003

 

Sorry was tempted to be mildly aggrevating lol but I edited to make my post an actual reply lol.

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by ghoul31

Yes, Tasos says a lot of things. The problem is that most of what he says are lies. Like when he said in August of 2003 that beta will begin in a month. And he has been lying about beta ever since.

So I really don't understand how you can believe a word Tasos says.

 

 

 

Are you reffering to the closed Technical beta that started late 2003?

 

No , I'm talking about the players outside the company playtesting the game that he said would begin in september of 2003

 

diffrent game

Originally posted by ghoul31

Yes, Tasos says a lot of things. The problem is that most of what he says are lies. Like when he said in August of 2003 that beta will begin in a month. And he has been lying about beta ever since.

So I really don't understand how you can believe a word Tasos says.

 

 

He can say whatever he wants its his project no investors involved:)
 

And nobody is forced to follow Darkfall.

He can develop it for another 4 years if he still have finance to do it, its an indie developen and they put there own money in project with maybe some donations.

If you dont like this well move along, go play some other game.

I remeber beta annoucement and i to was bit dissapointed that it never came but i keep believing in this game becouse its only tgame that have the featers i want in a sandbox open pvp game, and becouse they did not force me to follow i dont start crying on forums that tasos is a liar:P

""Something that Darkfall has that other games may lack during testing is help from the AI. In Darkfall the game doesn't really distinguish between a player and the AI. The AI are bots actually living their life and skilling up within the game. The AI has been helping us test a large part of the game almost as if players were in it.""..........AAaaa   sure, what ever you say. O_o I'm sure they get Sooo much feed back from them too.

It's astounding how many have such blind faith in this game, and says an incredible amount about the intelligence, or lack there of, of the community for this "mature" game. We are 2 months away from the end of 2008 without even seeing ANYTHING besides a 17 minute video a few months ago (which didn't show a lot) and you guys actual believe they will release(in a functional state) before the end of the year? Really?

If they, by some chance do release by the end of the year, I would be absolutely shocked if the game wasn't riddled with bugs.

Originally posted by stayontarget

""Something that Darkfall has that other games may lack during testing is help from the AI. In Darkfall the game doesn't really distinguish between a player and the AI. The AI are bots actually living their life and skilling up within the game. The AI has been helping us test a large part of the game almost as if players were in it.""..........AAaaa   sure, what ever you say. O_o I'm sure they get Sooo much feed back from them too.

Do you think they get feedback from bots through chat or posting on a forum:P

I think follow there movements/actions through logs from bots they get info how they progress in gameworld hehe.

Originally posted by KhaelSan

Funny how tasos writes: "Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. "

Weird because according to other statements, they went into "internal beta" back in 2006 and is now doing "beta testing" with proff. internal testers.

They cant even themselves figure out what beta is, so why dont we just go by the standards everyone else use:

Alpha is when only they are testing it internally.

Beta is when the public is testing the software.

By this definition they are still in alpha.

they said they are allowing some 'open beta' applicants for hardware testing, but closed beta itself has been going on for a while (including actual playing)

Originally posted by Abrahmm

It's astounding how many have such blind faith in this game, and says an incredible amount about the intelligence, or lack there of, of the community for this "mature" game. We are 2 months away from the end of 2008 without even seeing ANYTHING besides a 17 minute video a few months ago (which didn't show a lot) and you guys actual believe they will release(in a functional state) before the end of the year? Really?

If they, by some chance do release by the end of the year, I would be absolutely shocked if the game wasn't riddled with bugs.

Yep a 17 Minute vid a few months ago was it man and..... Oh wait, also the Athens Digital Week presentation they did where they again announced the 2008 launch infront of international media as well as others present. I guess that since it has been on the news, in the papers, has a publisher, a server host, played it live infront of many, ....... I guess there's a bit more than a 17 minute vid at the moment huh lol. Besides what blind faith are you talking about? You mean the fact that we think we will have fun playing a specific Video game? Your the one trying to convence people it will fail lol. We just think we will enjoy it lmao.

By the way I will say this again, Athens Digital Week had over 30k attend. So it was a fair sized  event with a lot going on.  lol people come in here trying to damn us in anyway they can because we think were going to enjoy a video game they don't lol simply boggles the mind lol.

Originally posted by stayontarget

""Something that Darkfall has that other games may lack during testing is help from the AI. In Darkfall the game doesn't really distinguish between a player and the AI. The AI are bots actually living their life and skilling up within the game. The AI has been helping us test a large part of the game almost as if players were in it.""..........AAaaa   sure, what ever you say. O_o I'm sure they get Sooo much feed back from them too.

see i find it funny how hard it is for osme poeple to wrapp there heads around the concept

Originally posted by ghoul31

Yes, Tasos says a lot of things. The problem is that most of what he says are lies.

Actually no.  You are just impatient and feel like a developer owes you something during the dev cycle when you spend nothing.  You should be WISHING all devs would scrap betas and delay games when they are not ready.  But unfortunatly most are under investor pressure, DF is not.   I know that is hard to understand, but i dont know read a book on something and figure out how our world works regarding money.

So I really don't understand how you can believe a word Tasos says.

It is called common sense and not being an internet nit who complains about every single game until they are proven to be wrong or bad.  DF has never done anything to prove it will be a bad game in any respect.  Sorry if you feel cool because you hop on the bashing train.

Let me ask you this...if DF had not announced anything....no forums....no dev journals...from the start of development until now with beta going on, would you feel the same way?  The answer is no.  They are now hyping up the game in ways they did not back in 2003 because it was a game back then and wasnt ready.

If you honestly think that this game isnt right around the corner, you either have not seen the numerous media covering DF, or you are just a troll.

Now you use to be a HUGE DF troll, but lately your posts have left some room for acceptance so i dont know.  What I do know is a lot of people are going to be eating crow very soon....and its going to be very cute when they try to play it off by changing how vicoiusly they attack DF on these forums.  Some already have....