As someone who played SWG until the NGE, I'm deeply dissapointed, though not surprised by any means, by the direction Bioware seems to be taking this game. To me, it looks like a single player MMO with a few instances that will require grouping with other people. Thus I have to ask:

"Should we really consider this game an MMO?"

I'm pretty cynical anymore when it comes to MMOs, particularly since I seem to be one of the few people who can recognize the rehashing of the same concept with a different skin that has repeatedly dogged the MMO experience for me. So it looks to me like Bioware is just trying to cash in on the whole MMORPG market using their previous successes as a foundation. It's like someone suggested one day:

"Lets make our next KOTOR game an MMORPG so we have a continuous flow of cash"

When I look at SWTOR's website, I see no mention of guild content, PVP, player cities, or anything that should drive people to play an MMO. Why, after all, should someone pay a monthly fee to play what is basically a single player game? 

I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing. The advent of the MMO allows people to continuously develop their character, and lets be honest, show off our achievements. Most important is the comradery and competition between guilds. How many stories and experiences do we best recall from our MMOs that stem only from single player content? Probably not too many.

As an SWG vet, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one. I'm done with the cookie cutter hand holding that companies are using to attract their market. 

I don't want someone to tell me a story, I want to tell other people MY story.

OP, good post!

Bioware's awesome development and creative thinking died a long ass time ago.  If you know anything about Bioware, you could see this trash coming from a mile away.

Good post OP.

Eh...we still know next to nothing about the actual game. A lot could change, as well.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

And if all else fails...there is still the EMU.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

As someone who played SWG until the NGE, I'm deeply dissapointed, though not surprised by any means, by the direction Bioware seems to be taking this game. To me, it looks like a single player MMO with a few instances that will require grouping with other people. Thus I have to ask:

"Should we really consider this game an MMO?"

I'm pretty cynical anymore when it comes to MMOs, particularly since I seem to be one of the few people who can recognize the rehashing of the same concept with a different skin that has repeatedly dogged the MMO experience for me. So it looks to me like Bioware is just trying to cash in on the whole MMORPG market using their previous successes as a foundation. It's like someone suggested one day:

"Lets make our next KOTOR game an MMORPG so we have a continuous flow of cash"

When I look at SWTOR's website, I see no mention of guild content, PVP, player cities, or anything that should drive people to play an MMO. Why, after all, should someone pay a monthly fee to play what is basically a single player game? 

I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing. The advent of the MMO allows people to continuously develop their character, and lets be honest, show off our achievements. Most important is the comradery and competition between guilds. How many stories and experiences do we best recall from our MMOs that stem only from single player content? Probably not too many.

As an SWG vet, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one. I'm done with the cookie cutter hand holding that companies are using to attract their market. 

I don't want someone to tell me a story, I want to tell other people MY story.

I highlighted the important part it'll make it easier.  If you didn't like Knights of the Old Republic (which was designed with the same philosophy as the rest of BioWare's single player RPGs) then this MMO is not meant for you.

 Don't worry, there's no need to be upset.  I'm sure one day a developer will come along and make a sandbox style game that's popular enough to be enjoyed (maybe Bethesda, they're good at sandbox games and they're designing an MMO even as we speak), but to expect that from BioWare is just nonsense.  Long before we knew this would be Star Wars we knew it wasn't going to be sandbox...why?  Because BioWare said so, that's why.

The "rehashing of ideas" that you speak of is what the majority if MMO gamers want.  The vocal minority are those that frequent game forums that we hear complain about MMO aspects of today.  Even less of that minority actually know what they want anyway and only echo what others are saying.

Gone are the days of working for what you get, now all you need is a credit card and some time.

Originally posted by Korusus

I highlighted the important part it'll make it easier.  If you didn't like Knights of the Old Republic (which was designed with the same philosophy as the rest of BioWare's single player RPGs) then this MMO is not meant for you.

I didn't enjoy those games because to me, putting hundreds of hours into a single player RPG is meaningless. For me, an MMO is about other people. Whether that's working in a group towards a common goal or PVP, or city building, or whatever.

I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

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Originally posted by Locklain

The "rehashing of ideas" that you speak of is what the majority if MMO gamers want.  The vocal minority are those that frequent game forums that we hear complain about MMO aspects of today.  Even less of that minority actually know what they want anyway and only echo what others are saying.

Gone are the days of working for what you get, now all you need is a credit card and some time.

That's unfortunately really true.

I'm probably one of the few people out there then that has very specific ideas for a game. Unfortunately I'm in no position to make it.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing.

So... when you get to the end of a good book, you feel the time you put in to get there ultimately meant nothing?

Also, about telling your stories... People don't seem to recognize it, but creating stories is a craft and it takes talent as well. In my experience, when let loose on the world without some good professional storyline to ground them, a huge part of the playerbase tend to just be plain boring and about as predictable as your ordinary mob.

No, if I'm paying for any sort of narrative experience, I expect good stories. I don't care what sort of freedom I may or may not have otherwise.

Again, to me, a Dostoevksy novel beats a random blank page any day.

Originally posted by ganbee

Warhammer people,

This not a blast, stop posting and play your awsome game! Funny,  That game is for ignorant people who pay 15$ a month.  Savage online will save you loads of cash! You need too spend more time on your game instead of posting! Afterall you are paying for it!

When I get home and have some time, I will in fact be playing Warhammer, which is a game I am currently enjoying. More so because I have a nice guild with close friends. 

The whole "play your game and stop posting" crap is a pretty sad attempt at a reply. I'm at work on the internet. No games for me here.

Originally posted by JT1228

I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

Like what exactly?  What could BioWare do differently that would make it not "WoW with lightsabers" as you call it and still be true to their design philosophy that they've adhered to since the days of Baldur's Gate and not simply be SWG2?

Originally posted by ganbee

Warhammer people,

This not a blast, stop posting and play your awsome game! Funny,  That game is for ignorant people who pay 15$ a month.  Savage online will save you loads of cash! You need too spend more time on your game instead of posting! Afterall you are paying for it!

Person that thinks they know everything,

someof us have job!  No play game at job!  Haha lawlerz!@  Go playz Savage Online!  Sounds grood you shuld spend mor time pwning faze in it!

Moral of the story here, its my money I will do with it whatever I please.

I did Edit my post/thread

Locklain,  Good luck on that game! I will see you six month's, and will be talking about Darkfall and how much it suck's. There be no replies cause as a gamer we tend to play; not post!

I love Bioware games.  From KotOR to Mass Effect, I've enjoyed every one of their games I have played.  I don't see why this one has to be any different.

I'll get my sandbox from Darkfall and Fallen Earth, I'll get my Star Wars kicks from TOR. 

I trust Bioware to make a FUN game.  Ultimately, FUN is the goal. 

Originally posted by Korusus

Originally posted by JT1228

I for one love KotoR and so far I'm not happy with the direction this game is going, I know its still early, but atm it looks like WoW with lightsabers. I wont be holding my breath, but I was really hoping for something better.

Like what exactly?  What could BioWare do differently that would make it not "WoW with lightsabers" as you call it and still be true to their design philosophy that they've adhered to since the days of Baldur's Gate and not simply be SWG2?

Easy, make it open ended. You start with a base of skills and the rest is up to you. I'm so sick and tired of MMO's forcing you to play a certain way, why is it so hard to make an mmo without the mass amounts of quest's? Guess 5 years of EvE and 2 years of pre-NGE SWG has me set in my ways.

All i'm saying, I pay to play your game, let me play it my way.

Originally posted by Thunderous

I love Bioware games.  From KotOR to Mass Effect, I've enjoyed every one of their games I have played.  I don't see why this one has to be any different.

I'll get my sandbox from Darkfall and Fallen Earth, I'll get my Star Wars kicks from TOR. 

I trust Bioware to make a FUN game.  Ultimately, FUN is the goal. 

Truer words have never been spoken. 

Unfortunately we MMO fans are a cynical and downtrodden lot that rarely sees something not worth complaining about.  It's just in this case the complaints are not only premature but ridiculous.  To expect BioWare to do anything other than...literally what BioWare does is in short RIDICULOUS. 

Lol, I can see whats going to happen here. 

There will be a protracted row between fans and naysayers for a couple of years whilst excitment builds up and then when it releases within a month everyone will be saying "gah this is boring and the subs are dropping like stone, damn you EA, you fooled us again!!!"  

History has a habit of repeating itself.  

I personally am VERY happy with what im reading about TOR so far. Yes... there is alot more info to come but I really trust BioWare.