From what I am seeing it looks like that. I always loved the "sandbox with toys" concept of Raph Koster, even though it was never fully or properly implemented with SWG.

It seems, however, that LA/Bioware have completely thrown that idea out, and decided just to go with the toys.

I can see how this can make a very enjoyable game, but well, personally, I wanted something more.

I am curious as to what people's opinions are on this :)

swg as it is today in its nge state is more sandbox than any AAA mmo. I almost forgive Soe because these new mmo's are shit, to put it bluntly.

Originally posted by Fishermage

From what I am seeing it looks like that. I always loved the "sandbox with toys" concept of Raph Koster, even though it was never fully or properly implemented with SWG.

It seems, however, that LA/Bioware have completely thrown that idea out, and decided just to go with the toys.

I can see how this can make a very enjoyable game, but well, personally, I wanted something more.

I am curious as to what people's opinions are on this :)

If you use common sense, there is no way the executives at Bioware/Lucasarts would have greenlighted a pre-CU SWG-like sandbox game. SWG was a failure for SOE in so many ways that I find this extremely unlikely.

In my opinion the game will be a pseudo Guildwars meets KotOR meets WoW meets WAR type of ordeal. I just hope they can combine the different aspectes of these titles in a way that makes the end product enjoyable.

Frankly, I don't understand all the post mortem pre-CU expectations of this title. SWTOR was most probably never intended to be any sort of substitute or bear any likeness to pre-CU SWG.

Here's a suggestion to disgruntled SWG vets, stop complaining and subscribe to Vanguard!

SWG won't revert back to a sandbox style.........never.
There is no point, if they wanted to, they could have done that long time ago, when veterans decided to cancel in droves account after account.

No point in trying to re-reinvent a 6 years old game now, they will keep SWG alive until it will stay profitable, but don't expect SoE to put extra effort in it............

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Fishermage

From what I am seeing it looks like that. I always loved the "sandbox with toys" concept of Raph Koster, even though it was never fully or properly implemented with SWG.

It seems, however, that LA/Bioware have completely thrown that idea out, and decided just to go with the toys.

I can see how this can make a very enjoyable game, but well, personally, I wanted something more.

I am curious as to what people's opinions are on this :)

If you use common sense, there is no way the executives at Bioware/Lucasarts would have greenlighted a pre-CU SWG-like sandbox game. SWG was a failure for SOE in so many ways that I find this extremely unlikely.

In my opinion the game will be a pseudo Guildwars meets KotOR meets WoW meets WAR type of ordeal. I just hope they can combine the different aspectes of these titles in a way that makes the end product enjoyable.

Frankly, I don't understand all the post mortem pre-CU expectations of this title. SWTOR was most probably never intended to be any sort of substitute or bear any likeness to pre-CU SWG.

Here's a suggestion to disgruntled SWG vets, stop complaining and subscribe to Vanguard!

Hmm. I don't believe I sounded disgruntled, in fact I said I will probably enjoy the game. I never said I expected SWTOR to be a sandbox or anything of the sort. I said I wanted something more, not that I won't like this game.

I was making a simple observation and pointing out an irony. Where yo got the idea I was complaining is beyond me.

Originally posted by Fishermage

From what I am seeing it looks like that. I always loved the "sandbox with toys" concept of Raph Koster, even though it was never fully or properly implemented with SWG.

It seems, however, that LA/Bioware have completely thrown that idea out, and decided just to go with the toys.

I can see how this can make a very enjoyable game, but well, personally, I wanted something more.

I am curious as to what people's opinions are on this :)

Yeah, from the various live blogs and the audio clip on their Story Presentation seminar with the press they did mentioned that they are going for the "heroic" feeling instead of the "everyday" feeling.

So they are focusing on their story-telling and delivery system, instead of the simulation-world.

It may very well turn out that SW:TOR will be the more polished, better designed NGE-type game with heavy emphasis on character stories for LA's vision of this generation's Star Wars lore, which means SOE screwed themselves over with their NGE.

so all we have to look forward to for future mmo's is companies taking the safe root and shining that casual mmo up and reselling it with a different name.

Originally posted by ste2000

SWG won't revert back to a sandbox style.........never.
There is no point, if they wanted to, they could have done that long time ago, when veterans decided to cancel in droves account after account.

No point in trying to re-reinvent a 6 years old game now, they will keep SWG alive until it will stay profitable, but don't expect SoE to put extra effort in it............

SWG is mostly sandbox style, even under the NGE. It isn't a very good sandbox, but it certainly is one of the, if not the most sandbox style game around now.

They have in fact added more sandbox elements, especially with the munitions crafting update. They have also added more toys (heroic instances, theme parks).

swg is sandbox compared to something linear like warhammer (huge disappointment).

yes

I think its will be a totally new take on Star wars games, and i welcome it. You should have never thought there would be remnants of SWG in it, other then the same places to explore. They are still in alpha stages so you never know what all is coming out of it, but you can be sure it wont have those everyday things to do like SWG. That my friend is gone. I personally would liek to see soem systems in SWG make it into this game:

space flight

some player driven crafting system

story telling tools

but other then these i welcoem a totally new game with no references to SWG. I had a great tiem in SWG, but that was SWG. i want to build a new community with people who love SWG. i just hope they have tools and systems set to do so.

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Fishermage

From what I am seeing it looks like that. I always loved the "sandbox with toys" concept of Raph Koster, even though it was never fully or properly implemented with SWG.

It seems, however, that LA/Bioware have completely thrown that idea out, and decided just to go with the toys.

I can see how this can make a very enjoyable game, but well, personally, I wanted something more.

I am curious as to what people's opinions are on this :)

If you use common sense, there is no way the executives at Bioware/Lucasarts would have greenlighted a pre-CU SWG-like sandbox game. SWG was a failure for SOE in so many ways that I find this extremely unlikely.

In my opinion the game will be a pseudo Guildwars meets KotOR meets WoW meets WAR type of ordeal. I just hope they can combine the different aspectes of these titles in a way that makes the end product enjoyable.

Frankly, I don't understand all the post mortem pre-CU expectations of this title. SWTOR was most probably never intended to be any sort of substitute or bear any likeness to pre-CU SWG.

Here's a suggestion to disgruntled SWG vets, stop complaining and subscribe to Vanguard!

 

Hmm. I don't believe I sounded disgruntled, in fact I said I will probably enjoy the game. I never said I expected SWTOR to be a sandbox or anything of the sort. I said I wanted something more, not that I won't like this game.

I was making a simple observation and pointing out an irony. Where yo got the idea I was complaining is beyond me.

My remarks weren't directed at you, my apologies for putting my message across a little unclearly.  I am just extremely annoyed at the numerous cry-baby posts from SWG vets proclaiming the death of SWTOR before it has even launched and before they hold any actual information about the title.

I'm not sure why people expect this perticular game to be a sandbox.  Is it because SWG players have something in their head that Star Wars games need to be sandbox?  If people checked things out there are a lot of Star Wars games out there that have been successful and they are generally story driven.  This includes KOTOR which was designed by Bioware.  Now some people want to see Bioware do something they have never done because it's the way they want the game.  Unfortunately for you and fortunately for fans of the KOTOR game they don't listen these complaints because they want to make the game like they have made most of their other games and one of their most successful games which is KOTOR.  I'm sure that they hired SWG devs because the project is just to big for them to complete.  That doesn't mean they will have involvement in how the game is made.  It's likely they will just be told what to code, draw, or whatever their job is.

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by ste2000

SWG won't revert back to a sandbox style.........never.
There is no point, if they wanted to, they could have done that long time ago, when veterans decided to cancel in droves account after account.

No point in trying to re-reinvent a 6 years old game now, they will keep SWG alive until it will stay profitable, but don't expect SoE to put extra effort in it............

 

SWG is mostly sandbox style, even under the NGE. It isn't a very good sandbox, but it certainly is one of the, if not the most sandbox style game around now.

They have in fact added more sandbox elements, especially with the munitions crafting update. They have also added more toys (heroic instances, theme parks).

There's no argument there man, compared to just about anything SWG is still the game most open to differing play styles in the industry right now. This a sad fact to be honest, here it is 2008 and the most innovative game on the market is from 2003.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Fishermage

From what I am seeing it looks like that. I always loved the "sandbox with toys" concept of Raph Koster, even though it was never fully or properly implemented with SWG.

It seems, however, that LA/Bioware have completely thrown that idea out, and decided just to go with the toys.

I can see how this can make a very enjoyable game, but well, personally, I wanted something more.

I am curious as to what people's opinions are on this :)

If you use common sense, there is no way the executives at Bioware/Lucasarts would have greenlighted a pre-CU SWG-like sandbox game. SWG was a failure for SOE in so many ways that I find this extremely unlikely.

In my opinion the game will be a pseudo Guildwars meets KotOR meets WoW meets WAR type of ordeal. I just hope they can combine the different aspectes of these titles in a way that makes the end product enjoyable.

Frankly, I don't understand all the post mortem pre-CU expectations of this title. SWTOR was most probably never intended to be any sort of substitute or bear any likeness to pre-CU SWG.

Here's a suggestion to disgruntled SWG vets, stop complaining and subscribe to Vanguard!

 

Hmm. I don't believe I sounded disgruntled, in fact I said I will probably enjoy the game. I never said I expected SWTOR to be a sandbox or anything of the sort. I said I wanted something more, not that I won't like this game.

I was making a simple observation and pointing out an irony. Where yo got the idea I was complaining is beyond me.

My remarks weren't directed at you, my apologies for putting my message across a little unclearly.  I am just extremely annoyed at the numerous cry-baby posts from SWG vets proclaiming the death of SWTOR before it has even launched and before they hold any actual information about the title.

I think that there are different camps of SWG vets just from the reaction to the news.  Most vets welcomed the announcement of the new Star Wars MMO, while some will complain that it is not like SWG's sandbox system, thus "fail" in their eyes.  Some complained about the graphic being WoW-ish, and so on and so forth...

For the record, I am an advocate for sandbox MMOs, but I also don't think the genre is just limited to sandbox MMO.  I see some innovative ideas from Bioware on SW:TOR with their approach of deep, complex character story-telling systems in MMO.

For SW:TOR, I don't think people should compare it to any previous games (especially SWG, since they are not going in the same direction here.)  So people need to keep an open mind on this.

I do agree that we don't have that much information at hand, and I am also annoyed by the number of the "Don't let Jedi be a starter prof. in SW:TOR" and "SW:TOR is WoW clone and a failure for not be sandbox like SWG.." posts, even the "The art is too much like WoW, we want realistic graphics that only those who can shell out the money to upgrade their PC can play" posts.  

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by ste2000

SWG won't revert back to a sandbox style.........never.
There is no point, if they wanted to, they could have done that long time ago, when veterans decided to cancel in droves account after account.

No point in trying to re-reinvent a 6 years old game now, they will keep SWG alive until it will stay profitable, but don't expect SoE to put extra effort in it............

 

SWG is mostly sandbox style, even under the NGE. It isn't a very good sandbox, but it certainly is one of the, if not the most sandbox style game around now.

They have in fact added more sandbox elements, especially with the munitions crafting update. They have also added more toys (heroic instances, theme parks).

There's no argument there man, compared to just about anything SWG is still the game most open to differing play styles in the industry right now. This a sad fact to be honest, here it is 2008 and the most innovative game on the market is from 2003.

You can only blame the community and the subscribers. The games that are being made are just a reflection of player desires.

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by Malickie

There's no argument there man, compared to just about anything SWG is still the game most open to differing play styles in the industry right now. This a sad fact to be honest, here it is 2008 and the most innovative game on the market is from 2003.

 

You can only blame the community and the subscribers. The games that are being made are just a reflection of player desires.

That is definitely part of the cause, not the entire cause IMO. The other factor is developers who are afraid to break that mold.

Bioware is not afraid to break the mold.  They are just doing what they do best and thats a good story driven game.

Originally posted by Forcan

I think that there are different camps of SWG vets just from the reaction to the news.  Most vets welcomed the announcement of the new Star Wars MMO, while some will complain that it is not like SWG's sandbox system, thus "fail" in their eyes.  Some complained about the graphic being WoW-ish, and so on and so forth...

For the record, I am an advocate for sandbox MMOs, but I also don't think the genre is just limited to sandbox MMO.  I see some innovative ideas from Bioware on SW:TOR with their approach of deep, complex character story-telling systems in MMO.

For SW:TOR, I don't think people should compare it to any previous games (especially SWG, since they are not going in the same direction here.)  So people need to keep an open mind on this.

I do agree that we don't have that much information at hand, and I am also annoyed by the number of the "Don't let Jedi be a starter prof. in SW:TOR" and "SW:TOR is WoW clone and a failure for not be sandbox like SWG.." posts, even the "The art is too much like WoW, we want realistic graphics that only those who can shell out the money to upgrade their PC can play" posts.  

 

I don't know if it comes as a surprise to you, but I am also a SWG vet.

I just don't understand how people can still be so greatly affected by SWG, years after they've quit. There are numerous good sandbox MMOs available at the moment, just not Star Wars ones.

I'm imagining that the game will have a very linear quest line. with a HUGE lack of content.. in the form of variety.   The quests will be VERY specific.. but they won't be short.. and they won't plentiful.  I'd imagine the start being very much like AoC, but with your choices reflecting what faction you are part of.  The Sith is NOT the Empire.  There is no line of good and bad.  The Sith is all evil.  It's about power and control.  No loyalty.. just.. power.

Originally posted by Flyte27

Bioware is not afraid to break the mold.  They are just doing what they do best and thats a good story driven game.

I hope you are correct, I still have a decent amount of interest in SW:TOR. Even considering it's probably going to be fairly linear. That's fine as long as they deliver something worthwhile.