I've got some theories, but I'd really like to hear from people who were in WAR's beta.

How was it run?

How did they organise testing?

How well did Mythic listen to feedback?

What changed between beta and release (ignoring the dropped classes and cities, of course)?

I've got some theories, but want to hear from those involved about how it went - what worked, what didn't - before posting them.

The biggest problem with Warhammer right now is  Scenerios > RvR

The reason this wasn't detected in the beta is because players weren't really worried about grinding RP on a throw-away character, so they didn't realize that it was so much better in scenerios.    I just tried each of the scenarios a few times to see what they were like.

Also, RvR was HUGE in beta, so even if people had tried to grind scenarios, they wouldn't have kept up with people in RvR.   This is still the case though.. if you have the critical mass of players in RvR.. it is more rewarding (rp and exp)... but on most servers, that critical mass isn't met.. and the less people doing RvR, the more efficient it is to just grind scenarios.  It's also a self-fullfilling prophecy.. as more people come to believe that scenarios are the best way to gain exp/rp.. then it will make it less likely people will be in RvR.

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Originally posted by Azrile
The biggest problem with Warhammer right now is  Scenerios > RvR
The reason this wasn't detected in the beta is because players weren't really worried about grinding RP on a throw-away character, so they didn't realize that it was so much better in scenerios.    I just tried each of the scenarios a few times to see what they were like.
Also, RvR was HUGE in beta, so even if people had tried to grind scenarios, they wouldn't have kept up with people in RvR.   This is still the case though.. if you have the critical mass of players in RvR.. it is more rewarding (rp and exp)... but on most servers, that critical mass isn't met.. and the less people doing RvR, the more efficient it is to just grind scenarios.  It's also a self-fullfilling prophecy.. as more people come to believe that scenarios are the best way to gain exp/rp.. then it will make it less likely people will be in RvR.
 

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Very true. Open RvR was huge in beta and a ton of fun. You could play all day and feel great. Wasn't a grind at all.

Originally posted by UnSub

I've got some theories, but I'd really like to hear from people who were in WAR's beta.

How was it run?
It was run quite well, Mythic was trying to listen to us, but they were bound to a certain game design and could not radically modify the game (EA directives maybe? who knows)

How did they organise testing?
At the beginning we had access to the whole game, then after we start complaining about how repetitive the game became, they allowed us to access certain sections of the game at a time only, and we were to give feedbacks only on that.
Sometimes it was RvR battles, sometimes scenarios, sometimes the Elves starting zone and so on.
This way we couldn't complain about how repetitive was the gameplay, because we were allowed access only pieces at a time, and couldn't test the gameplay as a whole.

How well did Mythic listen to feedback?
They did listen, in fact they suspended Beta for a couple of months to fix many issue (main one being lack of Capital cities and the pointless capture the flag system in the open RvR world.
Even then the main complaint was, that it wasn't fun, most people were forcing themselves to log in, and that was made crystal clear to the devs.
After Beta resumed they did some changes but the result was the game was still boring.

What changed between beta and release (ignoring the dropped classes and cities, of course)?
Nothing really, as I said they made minore changes, but didn't change the end result.
Basically the game was missing the soul, it didn't feel like a living and breathing world, and Mythic, although aware of it, didn't really know what to do, and the game has been shipped with the same recurring problem he had in beta for the previous 8 months, which was that the game got boring pretty fast.
In fact the game was solid and very polished for a Beta so that wasn't the problem, I was testing AoC at the time, and AoC was a pile of shit compared to WAR..........yet AoC was more fun.

I've got some theories, but want to hear from those involved about how it went - what worked, what didn't - before posting them.

There you go

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by UnSub

How did they organise testing?
Sometimes it was RvR battles, sometimes scenarios, sometimes the Elves starting zone and so on.
This way we couldn't complain about how repetitive was the gameplay, because we were allowed access only pieces at a time, and couldn't test the gameplay as a whole.

 

There you go

Omg, I've seen people on this forum boasting about how Mythic let them them test the whole game and how they were not hiding anything compared to Funcom.  It shows how much BS people talk. 

The people who made such claims should be ashamed of themselves.  

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Originally posted by Blodpls

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Originally posted by ste2000

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Originally posted by UnSub

How did they organise testing?
Sometimes it was RvR battles, sometimes scenarios, sometimes the Elves starting zone and so on.
This way we couldn't complain about how repetitive was the gameplay, because we were allowed access only pieces at a time, and couldn't test the gameplay as a whole.

---

 
There you go

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Omg, I've seen people on this forum boasting about how Mythic let them them test the whole game and how they were not hiding anything compared to Funcom.  It shows how much BS people talk. 
The people who made such claims should be ashamed of themselves.  

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they did let people test the whole game (For the most part) they just split it up into sections.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by UnSub

How did they organise testing?
Sometimes it was RvR battles, sometimes scenarios, sometimes the Elves starting zone and so on.
This way we couldn't complain about how repetitive was the gameplay, because we were allowed access only pieces at a time, and couldn't test the gameplay as a whole.

 

There you go

 

Omg, I've seen people on this forum boasting about how Mythic let them them test the whole game and how they were not hiding anything compared to Funcom.  It shows how much BS people talk. 

The people who made such claims should be ashamed of themselves.  

Problem with beta is too many people get in the game to get a headstart or an advantage and not to test the game. 

Too many testers don't know how to test a game.  they provide feedback but it is not useful.  This game is awesome or this game sucks is not constructive.

Some games just want bug feedback and not actual feedback on game play.  Not sure if WAR was like this, as its the only major game I neve rmanaged to get a closed beta invite!!!!!

Actaully that must be why it failed

Originally posted by galad2003

Problem with beta is too many people get in the game to get a headstart or an advantage and not to test the game. 

Too many testers don't know how to test a game.  they provide feedback but it is not useful.  This game is awesome or this game sucks is not constructive.

Some games just want bug feedback and not actual feedback on game play.  Not sure if WAR was like this, as its the only major game I neve rmanaged to get a closed beta invite!!!!!

Actaully that must be why it failed

Most of the type of 'closed beta' testers you listed were removed from WAR's beta.  The WAR devs did not play nice.  If you exploited, broke rules, repeatedly posted about the same topic despite the issue being closed or its already in discussion elsewhere, if you did nothing but offer crap commentary in a negative light without being constructive at all you were banned from the Beta. 
 

WAR broke up its beta into phases and narrowed the testing scope so that the bug reports, feedback etc were on the subject at hand and not someone crying because no one was playing lvl 1 toons.  Infact one can contribute their rather nice launch to the narrowed scope focus  it allowed them to concentrate on bugs in one or two areas at a time instead of all over the board. 

Some phases you only tested 1 Tier from all races, some phases you tested only certain races at certain tiers in certain realms and in some phases you could play from lvl 1 to 40 from anywhere you wanted using any class you wanted.  Sometimes some content or classes were turned off because they were being tweaked.   

To be honest from a design & development stand point this is a far better approach especially for time managment than letting everyone do anything they want in a willy nilly fashion.  It allows the devs and the worker bees to look very close and frequently at the same areas with a decent amount of time to repair, change, or tweak.   Having to concentrate on 10 different things at once highly contributes to the major bug & exploit factor...while nothing 100 percent wise gets rid of these it certaintly helps in lowering the chances.

Originally posted by banthis

Originally posted by galad2003

Problem with beta is too many people get in the game to get a headstart or an advantage and not to test the game. 

Too many testers don't know how to test a game.  they provide feedback but it is not useful.  This game is awesome or this game sucks is not constructive.

Some games just want bug feedback and not actual feedback on game play.  Not sure if WAR was like this, as its the only major game I neve rmanaged to get a closed beta invite!!!!!

Actaully that must be why it failed

Most of the type of 'closed beta' testers you listed were removed from WAR's beta.  The WAR devs did not play nice.  If you exploited, broke rules, repeatedly posted about the same topic despite the issue being closed or its already in discussion elsewhere, if you did nothing but offer crap commentary in a negative light without being constructive at all you were banned from the Beta. 
 

WAR broke up its beta into phases and narrowed the testing scope so that the bug reports, feedback etc were on the subject at hand and not someone crying because no one was playing lvl 1 toons.  Infact one can contribute their rather nice launch to the narrowed scope focus  it allowed them to concentrate on bugs in one or two areas at a time instead of all over the board. 

Some phases you only tested 1 Tier from all races, some phases you tested only certain races at certain tiers in certain realms and in some phases you could play from lvl 1 to 40 from anywhere you wanted using any class you wanted.  Sometimes some content or classes were turned off because they were being tweaked.   

To be honest from a design & development stand point this is a far better approach especially for time managment than letting everyone do anything they want in a willy nilly fashion.  It allows the devs and the worker bees to look very close and frequently at the same areas with a decent amount of time to repair, change, or tweak.   Having to concentrate on 10 different things at once highly contributes to the major bug & exploit factor...while nothing 100 percent wise gets rid of these it certaintly helps in lowering the chances.

Breaking it into pieces works well for testing out pieces.  However it doesn't do any good for testing out the whole of the game, which is what is broke in Warhammer.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by UnSub

How did they organise testing?
Sometimes it was RvR battles, sometimes scenarios, sometimes the Elves starting zone and so on.
This way we couldn't complain about how repetitive was the gameplay, because we were allowed access only pieces at a time, and couldn't test the gameplay as a whole.

 

There you go

 

Omg, I've seen people on this forum boasting about how Mythic let them them test the whole game and how they were not hiding anything compared to Funcom.  It shows how much BS people talk. 

The people who made such claims should be ashamed of themselves.  

Probably those people were from the open Beta.
But in the closet Beta things were as I described them in my post.
The very first leg of closed beta had no restriction, but people were complaining that the game was boring and that they didn't see the point of it.
So they decided to break up the testing in sections, so we could give feedbacks only on that section.
They also changed policy in the forum where you no longer could start a thread so to avoid whining threads (which by the time they were getting increasingly more critical), the threads were started by Mythic staff  asking for feedbacks on particular subjects.
The only place where you could start threads was in Tavern section, where you were not allowed to give any kind of feedback on the game.

So, no they weren't completely transparent, they've been in denial for the all duration of the closed beta, and pretended not to see/hear anything by effectively censoring too negative feedbacks in the forum and breaking up beta in sections.

Originally posted by UnSub

I've got some theories, but I'd really like to hear from people who were in WAR's beta.

How was it run?

How did they organise testing?

How well did Mythic listen to feedback?

What changed between beta and release (ignoring the dropped classes and cities, of course)?

I've got some theories, but want to hear from those involved about how it went - what worked, what didn't - before posting them.

Easy Answer..... I got bored.... and the game never got any better... Not even after release... Oh and the graphics never changed for the better either... Leaving me even more disconnected... It's sad I know... I kinda feel like they should stop making major IP's into MMO's.... They only stand to dissapoint.. But thats only my opinion... I know others like it just fine...

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by UnSub

I've got some theories, but I'd really like to hear from people who were in WAR's beta.

How was it run?
It was run quite well, Mythic was trying to listen to us, but they were bound to a certain game design and could not radically modify the game (EA directives maybe? who knows)

How did they organise testing?
At the beginning we had access to the whole game, then after we start complaining about how repetitive the game became, they allowed us to access certain sections of the game at a time only, and we were to give feedbacks only on that.
Sometimes it was RvR battles, sometimes scenarios, sometimes the Elves starting zone and so on.
This way we couldn't complain about how repetitive was the gameplay, because we were allowed access only pieces at a time, and couldn't test the gameplay as a whole.

How well did Mythic listen to feedback?
They did listen, in fact they suspended Beta for a couple of months to fix many issue (main one being lack of Capital cities and the pointless capture the flag system in the open RvR world.
Even then the main complaint was, that it wasn't fun, most people were forcing themselves to log in, and that was made crystal clear to the devs.
After Beta resumed they did some changes but the result was the game was still boring.

What changed between beta and release (ignoring the dropped classes and cities, of course)?
Nothing really, as I said they made minore changes, but didn't change the end result.
Basically the game was missing the soul, it didn't feel like a living and breathing world, and Mythic, although aware of it, didn't really know what to do, and the game has been shipped with the same recurring problem he had in beta for the previous 8 months, which was that the game got boring pretty fast.
In fact the game was solid and very polished for a Beta so that wasn't the problem, I was testing AoC at the time, and AoC was a pile of shit compared to WAR..........yet AoC was more fun.

I've got some theories, but want to hear from those involved about how it went - what worked, what didn't - before posting them.

 

There you go

Excellent write up.Yes I was in the beta. My two  cents.Many players especially ranged attackers(mages and archers) were extremely frustrated with their low damage dealing and lack of Crowd Control to give them some defense.Some classes just didn't work well were reported and never fixed(engineer comes to mind).I am a long term DAOC player and expected the next generation of RVR. I was stunned to find rvr was an afterthought.Classes poorly done..seige warfare minimal and poorly done.ZERGING was what passed for rvr.I said to myself...wait till players get to the higher levels and see whats NOT in the game.I stopped beta testing because  the game didn't improve....and it was boring.

Thanks all - this corresponds to what I heard about WAR's beta. I just wanted to hear it from some other people to make sure.

Beta Warhammer was more fun then the Final Warhammer, why you ask?  because they capped your progress at Tier 2, so everyone was bunched up together, this made for very active Open RvR and PQ's... Now with people spread out from Tier 1 to Tier 4, the game feels empty..

I was in Beta and you focus on specific bugs in game not the general.  I think though this game needs population to make it fun.  They just released too many servers.

Originally posted by UnSub

I've got some theories, but I'd really like to hear from people who were in WAR's beta.

How was it run?

Very well, aside from some communication issues (well let you know whats happening next week - next week comes - yup still on it we will let you know next week)

 

How did they organise testing?

For the most part we had entire zones to explore from lvl 1 it was only quite late into beta testing when we were given leveled character to test higher stuff then we moved onto focus testing different aspect of the game

 

How well did Mythic listen to feedback?

Again very well, initially, for the most part they  accepted our feedback and made a lot of changes based on it but near the end this slowly stopped as they made changes for the MMO sake of the game (ie. making it take longer to get your renown to max)

Right at the end there was a big case of "Here look at our proposed changes and comment on them but don't make any negative comments cause we are too busy high fiving each other on what a wonderful decision we've made and are going to impliment it anyway"

What changed between beta and release (ignoring the dropped classes and cities, of course)?

A lot of tiny little background mechanic things

 

Why didnt' you guys complain about the Broken classes like the SH and SW, or the MAGUS and ENG, or where you guys too busy playing ZERGFEST after ZERGFEST

Originally posted by susanto1228

Why didnt' you guys complain about the Broken classes like the SH and SW, or the MAGUS and ENG, or where you guys too busy playing ZERGFEST after ZERGFEST

We complained. A lot.

You should've seen (at least the Engineer and the Magus) when the Magus was first introduced. They were so much worse than they are now.

So stop bit**ing. Mythic did listen. They improved a ton of stuff across the board. However, me and most of my friends who were also in the CB all agree on one thing: beta should've been extended a good 3 months. Classes could've been perfected, the XP issues could've been smoothed out, ect.

Originally posted by star.buck

Originally posted by susanto1228

Why didnt' you guys complain about the Broken classes like the SH and SW, or the MAGUS and ENG, or where you guys too busy playing ZERGFEST after ZERGFEST

We complained. A lot.

You should've seen (at least the Engineer and the Magus) when the Magus was first introduced. They were so much worse than they are now.

  Yah well you see where it got the community now....the most OP ability in the game now belong in the hands of a disgruntled MAGE and ENG who are using the rift to Pull players through Keep Doors and into the LAVA at Tor anroc...disgusting, not surprised that your playing on Destro side either.....