I played pirates for 17 months. 12 of those months were in the beta. The beta was leaps and bounds more fun than the live version for several reasons. I am going to list here the changes FLS made that murdered this game in cold blood.

1) 6V6 open sea battles. In beta it didnt matter how many ships where in an instance, it could be up to 12 per side I think at that time. So an armada of 24 level 30 players show up to flip a port. 6 level 50 players pick them off 6 at a time. How is that fair? How is that a "war". I have read a lot of naval history in my day and never once did I read where an armada showed up at an enemy port and because the enemy only had 6 ships to fight them with the armada sent 6 ships at them at a time to make it "fair". We warned FLS about this being a game breaker and were told..."we know what we are doing".

2) Line ship bundles. This little addition made it so ships of the line were almost unattainable to the average player. Grinding for hours and hours and hours to get enough money 10 million DBs for the largest ships made players say screw it and they left. The testers told FLS grinding for months to be able to afford a ship of the line is not what is going to keep people playing your game. HAVING a ship of the line will. Once again they disregarded our warnings and did it any way.

3) Adding avatar combat to the port battles. No body wanted this, it was not asked for by ANY testers. We just logged in one day and bam, you have to button mash for an hour to win a port battle? We stated it was crap and it would lose them customers. Once again, they laughed at us.

4) They never balanced the classes. For Christ sake they had FOUR GODDAM CLASSES. A MONKEY could have balanced that many classes before a games release. That along with the seemingly "magical" powers some classes had that could slow your ship or kill your entire crew with the push of a single button ruined the age of sail feeling the game had in beta.

The long and the short of it is FLS did not listen to their testers who pleaded with them not to make these changes. The changes were made and the game went down faster than michael jackson in a kindergarden class.

Signed JUDGE BLOODGOOD

Vice Admiral and commander of the Lords of the Burning Seas naval armada.

(PS) a little history of us in the game at TTH.

www.tentonhammer.com/node/21644

Originally posted by Caligulug

I played pirates for 17 months. 12 of those months were in the beta. The beta was leaps and bounds more fun than the live version for several reasons. I am going to list here the changes FLS made that murdered this game in cold blood.

1) 6V6 open sea battles. In beta it didnt matter how many ships where in an instance, it could be up to 12 per side I think at that time. So an armada of 24 level 30 players show up to flip a port. 6 level 50 players pick them off 6 at a time. How is that fair? How is that a "war". I have read a lot of naval history in my day and never once did I read where an armada showed up at an enemy port and because the enemy only had 6 ships to fight them with the armada sent 6 ships at them at a time to make it "fair". We warned FLS about this being a game breaker and were told..."we know what we are doing".

 

2) Line ship bundles. This little addition made it so ships of the line were almost unattainable to the average player. Grinding for hours and hours and hours to get enough money 10 million DBs for the largest ships made players say screw it and they left. The testers told FLS grinding for months to be able to afford a ship of the line is not what is going to keep people playing your game. HAVING a ship of the line will. Once again they disregarded our warnings and did it any way.

 

3) Adding avatar combat to the port battles. No body wanted this, it was not asked for by ANY testers. We just logged in one day and bam, you have to button mash for an hour to win a port battle? We stated it was crap and it would lose them customers. Once again, they laughed at us.

 

4) They never balanced the classes. For Christ sake they had FOUR GODDAM CLASSES. A MONKEY could have balanced that many classes before a games release. That along with the seemingly "magical" powers some classes had that could slow your ship or kill your entire crew with the push of a single button ruined the age of sail feeling the game had in beta.

 

The long and the short of it is FLS did not listen to their testers who pleaded with them not to make these changes. The changes were made and the game went down faster than michael jackson in a kindergarden class.

 

Signed JUDGE BLOODGOOD

Vice Admiral and commander of the Lords of the Burning Seas naval armada.

 

(PS) a little history of us in the game at TTH.

www.tentonhammer.com/node/21644

Since they made everything instanced, they had to do something to where it wouldn't turn into a 20 on 1 gankfest.  Even still, their original plan wasn't so hot either.  I think they've got it about right at the moment.  I don't care for the instancing, but you go to war with what you have so to speak.

Some of the most devestating blows to this game I honestly believe had little to do with game mechanics.  DrewC's comment I think lost them a ton of customers (where he basically advocated cheating as an acceptable playstyle) and made it official, POTBS is the only game that (at least it appears, not having that argument) openly encouraged one of the worst aspects of MMO PvP.  Other games recognize it but don't praise it.  They implement mechanics to limit ganking.  When potential new customers saw that, they decided they wanted nothing of it.

There is also of course failing to stick with a plan, and trying to be all things to all people.  As far as LSB's, I for one am THRILLED that elite ships of the line became a rarity before the massive cash infusion.  I just don't like the way they did it with LSB's.  Certainly they could've found a different way.  What that is, I don't know.  I like the idea of a ship of the line being a REAL game changer.

As far as "balance", what is balance.  MMO's are not about "balance" in the sense that everyone has an equal shot of killing everyone else.  If that's what you meant, I don't want balance.  What I want is balance in TEAMS.  Freetraders might be very manuverable, but have them try to slug out a fight at range with a Naval Officer.  It just ain't happening.  On this part I think POTBS is okay actually.  The recent changes to ft's making them boardable (which even I as a FT I will admit is absurd when we couldn't be lol) are a step in the right direction.  The only thing I want for FT's is when they remove our expert bonuses (they will) give us something in return.  Also give us a real economic advantage.

You failed to mention them signing a deal with the devil over publishing, the famous quote "I spoke to Smedley and SOE have it down cold!". Many warned against SOE, I was still going to purchase until SOE f***ed up on a titanic scale. I couldn't purchase a pre-order because SOE hadn't shipped them, those that could get them (a few stores in the USA) ended up either not having the disc or the gamecode because someone at SOE forgot to put them in there!

I wanted this to work. I wanted to play it, however now it seems it'll be purchased by Smedley to add to the list of dismal faliures associated with the SOE brand name. If PotBS were a sailing ship she'd be the Marie Celeste, on a direct course to the SOE dry docks alongside Vanguard!

Originally posted by Agricola1

You failed to mention them signing a deal with the devil over publishing, the famous quote "I spoke to Smedley and SOE have it down cold!". Many warned against SOE, I was still going to purchase until SOE f***ed up on a titanic scale. I couldn't purchase a pre-order because SOE hadn't shipped them, those that could get them (a few stores in the USA) ended up either not having the disc or the gamecode because someone at SOE forgot to put them in there!

I wanted this to work. I wanted to play it, however now it seems it'll be purchased by Smedley to add to the list of dismal faliures associated with the SOE brand name. If PotBS were a sailing ship she'd be the Marie Celeste, on a direct course to the SOE dry docks alongside Vanguard!

That this game failed wasn't SOE fault. The devs didn't listen to the beta testers, that kills a lot of game.

In the AoC beta forum many testers warned about releasing to early and I heard the same happened in the WAR forums. While some testers might be wrong, all are never.

Just Blaming SOE for everything they publish isn't really fair even though they should check it up better before signing anything. Vanguard and SWG are their fault but not this.

I didn't say I blame SOE 100%, I was just saying they helped dig the grave. Ultimately the responsibility rests on FLS 100% for the troubles with the game.

Dont forget the last little slap of launching the game with 10 Fing servers.... Lots were to low a pop to play on.

Nothing I warned about in beta was addressed:

- explore vast new lands -- nope, no lands to explore, can't explore at all

- see wondrous new sights -- sorry, no sights at all, except repetitive city scenes. And the sea is flat with no waves.

- battle the weather, hurricanes -- no, no weather at all. No whitecaps, no wind tells on the water. Nothing.

- become the best cannon maker in the New World -- sorry, everybody makes exactly the same things, nothing to learn.

- learn amazing avatar combat -- hah!

That leaves one thing: ship combat. PoTBS is a decent ship combat simulator, with some add-on features to make it into a MMO of sorts. Being a sailor IRL, I really enjoyed that part of the game. There is no other part in the game, really, anyway.

Given that this is a SOE "platform publishing" partner game, and the only one so far that actually RELEASED and didn't have to be bailed out by SOE to continue past 2 months, they win the championship.

Originally posted by salvaje

Given that this is a SOE "platform publishing" partner game, and the only one so far that actually RELEASED and didn't have to be bailed out by SOE to continue past 2 months, they win the championship.

 

HAHAHA thats a good way to look at it

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Agricola1

You failed to mention them signing a deal with the devil over publishing, the famous quote "I spoke to Smedley and SOE have it down cold!". Many warned against SOE, I was still going to purchase until SOE f***ed up on a titanic scale. I couldn't purchase a pre-order because SOE hadn't shipped them, those that could get them (a few stores in the USA) ended up either not having the disc or the gamecode because someone at SOE forgot to put them in there!

I wanted this to work. I wanted to play it, however now it seems it'll be purchased by Smedley to add to the list of dismal faliures associated with the SOE brand name. If PotBS were a sailing ship she'd be the Marie Celeste, on a direct course to the SOE dry docks alongside Vanguard!

 

That this game failed wasn't SOE fault. The devs didn't listen to the beta testers, that kills a lot of game.

In the AoC beta forum many testers warned about releasing to early and I heard the same happened in the WAR forums. While some testers might be wrong, all are never.

Just Blaming SOE for everything they publish isn't really fair even though they should check it up better before signing anything. Vanguard and SWG are their fault but not this.

Wether the game had problems or not doesn't change the fact that if the things Agricola1 said did in fact happen which no one seems to be disputing it certainly didn't help and is at the least a pretty crack headed move.

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Agricola1

You failed to mention them signing a deal with the devil over publishing, the famous quote "I spoke to Smedley and SOE have it down cold!". Many warned against SOE, I was still going to purchase until SOE f***ed up on a titanic scale. I couldn't purchase a pre-order because SOE hadn't shipped them, those that could get them (a few stores in the USA) ended up either not having the disc or the gamecode because someone at SOE forgot to put them in there!

I wanted this to work. I wanted to play it, however now it seems it'll be purchased by Smedley to add to the list of dismal faliures associated with the SOE brand name. If PotBS were a sailing ship she'd be the Marie Celeste, on a direct course to the SOE dry docks alongside Vanguard!

 

That this game failed wasn't SOE fault. The devs didn't listen to the beta testers, that kills a lot of game.

In the AoC beta forum many testers warned about releasing to early and I heard the same happened in the WAR forums. While some testers might be wrong, all are never.

Just Blaming SOE for everything they publish isn't really fair even though they should check it up better before signing anything. Vanguard and SWG are their fault but not this.

 

Wether the game had problems or not doesn't change the fact that if the things Agricola1 said did in fact happen which no one seems to be disputing it certainly didn't help and is at the least a pretty crack headed move.

Blameing SOE for the Trai..Ship Wreak that was POTBS is a joke. Yes Soe Screwed Up. But if they were the ONLY ones that were willing to go along with FLS then Its not soe's fault. Need Publishers that arnt fudge ups.
 

ANd Soe Fudged up Bigtime. But the Complaint is with FLS and SOE. The game STILL would have sucked as it launched. there would have Still been 10 servers. H2H would still be a joke and the servers Woulda been Empty Probably Faster If not for people like me who had a station pas and kept poping in every few months.

SOE Is NOT to blame for this game. FLS has said SEVERAL times that if it lives or Dies its ON THEIR HANDS.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Agricola1

You failed to mention them signing a deal with the devil over publishing, the famous quote "I spoke to Smedley and SOE have it down cold!". Many warned against SOE, I was still going to purchase until SOE f***ed up on a titanic scale. I couldn't purchase a pre-order because SOE hadn't shipped them, those that could get them (a few stores in the USA) ended up either not having the disc or the gamecode because someone at SOE forgot to put them in there!

I wanted this to work. I wanted to play it, however now it seems it'll be purchased by Smedley to add to the list of dismal faliures associated with the SOE brand name. If PotBS were a sailing ship she'd be the Marie Celeste, on a direct course to the SOE dry docks alongside Vanguard!

 

That this game failed wasn't SOE fault. The devs didn't listen to the beta testers, that kills a lot of game.

In the AoC beta forum many testers warned about releasing to early and I heard the same happened in the WAR forums. While some testers might be wrong, all are never.

Just Blaming SOE for everything they publish isn't really fair even though they should check it up better before signing anything. Vanguard and SWG are their fault but not this.

soe's stated goal is to have a lot of subpar-average mmo's under the station pass.

doesn't take much looking into an mmo to figure out that it'll be at least subpar.

---

Originally posted by iceman00
Some of the most devestating blows to this game I honestly believe had little to do with game mechanics.  DrewC's comment I think lost them a ton of customers (where he basically advocated cheating as an acceptable playstyle) and made it official, POTBS is the only game that (at least it appears, not having that argument) openly encouraged one of the worst aspects of MMO PvP.  Other games recognize it but don't praise it.  They implement mechanics to limit ganking.  When potential new customers saw that, they decided they wanted nothing of it.

---

"There's no crying in the Red." What killed it for me was more an extension to this. The blatant disregard that FLS had for community rules and issues. When the server mergers came about one group moved to a server with the sole intent of griefing and destroying the server. The were rude and abrasive in the forums. Rude and abrasive in the game. They put their own nation in the red time and again instead of taking the fight to the enemy. They crippled their own nation's economy. They even had posts on their forums patting each other on the back for the warnings they got from mods. A bannable violation in its own right. Not one member was ever banned. Not one dev or mod ever acknowledged their stance or admitted there was a problem. They got what they set out. Most of the people in their nation left and I believe most of the other nations decided it wasn't worth it, either. To this day I don't think a single one of them was banned for any of the bannable offenses they engaged in daily.

I'm sorry, but when a company allows rot like that to fester in its player base it shouldn't be surprised when the player base abandons ship.

Originally posted by Greyed

 

---

Originally posted by iceman00
Some of the most devestating blows to this game I honestly believe had little to do with game mechanics.  DrewC's comment I think lost them a ton of customers (where he basically advocated cheating as an acceptable playstyle) and made it official, POTBS is the only game that (at least it appears, not having that argument) openly encouraged one of the worst aspects of MMO PvP.  Other games recognize it but don't praise it.  They implement mechanics to limit ganking.  When potential new customers saw that, they decided they wanted nothing of it.

---

 

"There's no crying in the Red." What killed it for me was more an extension to this. The blatant disregard that FLS had for community rules and issues. When the server mergers came about one group moved to a server with the sole intent of griefing and destroying the server. The were rude and abrasive in the forums. Rude and abrasive in the game. They put their own nation in the red time and again instead of taking the fight to the enemy. They crippled their own nation's economy. They even had posts on their forums patting each other on the back for the warnings they got from mods. A bannable violation in its own right. Not one member was ever banned. Not one dev or mod ever acknowledged their stance or admitted there was a problem. They got what they set out. Most of the people in their nation left and I believe most of the other nations decided it wasn't worth it, either. To this day I don't think a single one of them was banned for any of the bannable offenses they engaged in daily.

I'm sorry, but when a company allows rot like that to fester in its player base it shouldn't be surprised when the player base abandons ship.

I can make a pretty good guess as to whom you mean, but it could be more than one group.  I have heard of despicable behaviour from Brits and Pirates, though in my case it really was the Brits whom I "experienced". 

But you're right, when the Brits insta-flipped three ports at once, right after the devs had posted something in a devlog to the effect that it was indeed an exploit, you knew that the "community" in question didn't care for rules or fair play.  Then the devs compounded the matter by refusing to hand back the ports the British took that way.  That was the beginning of a long history of faction imbalance which they never solved.

Oh well, I'm done with that game anyway.  Now I can only reminisce over what it might have been, instead of what it was.

Actually, the group in question I was speaking of were French. But you're right, the insta-flipping was a problem as well. It is something that really needed to be addressed in the mechanics of the game. :(

Originally posted by Greyed

Actually, the group in question I was speaking of were French. But you're right, the insta-flipping was a problem as well. It is something that really needed to be addressed in the mechanics of the game. :(

Ah yes, the Antigua French.  Forgot about them, because I never experienced them first-hand.  From what I read, though, they were notorious for driving even their own side away...  No small feat in itself.

LOL we antigua french didnt ruin the game! We owned everyone within bounds of the rule setforth by SOE! BTW OMG GFUS.

why r we still talking about this dead game anyway? Everything listedin this thread is just ANOTHER reason this game failed, they are all right for various reasons.

OMG I'm Drunk, French Foreign Legion, we killed morgan, then we killed Antigua, no one could hang with us.

 They took the Aussie server. That killed it for me. Everything else had a workaround.

Originally posted by sickdoll

LOL we antigua french didnt ruin the game! We owned everyone within bounds of the rule setforth by SOE! BTW OMG GFUS.

why r we still talking about this dead game anyway? Everything listedin this thread is just ANOTHER reason this game failed, they are all right for various reasons.

OMG I'm Drunk, French Foreign Legion, we killed morgan, then we killed Antigua, no one could hang with us.

I guess that is one way to "win" a game. 

Interesting philosophy, parasitic in nature... play a game (find a host), 'own it' by forcing others out (suck the blood dry), then move onto another game (find another host).

Thanks for sharing that.  I keep forgetting at times that such a mentality exists and actions are needed to counter such a destructive behavior to a business.

OMG is still in PotBS, French on Antigua and Pirates on Blackbeard. As much as they might like to think they did, they didn't destroy anything. When OMG left PotBS for Warhammer, the Spanish nation took their place as the dominant RvR force on Antigua. Now, having found WAR boring a few of the OMG guys resurrected PotBS OMG and are still active in PvP and RvR.

They do have a bunch of jerks, but they also have a bunch of decent players. I've seen game breakers (SomethingAwful forums' Goons in Eve-Online, for example, whose stated purpose is to screw up games for other people); OMG I'm Drunk aren't game breakers (no matter how hard sickdoll wants to chestthump about it).