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10/24/08 2:18:35 PM#21
Originally posted by Azrile
Er... no. PvP in wotlk remains pretty dire. Ok so it's better than BC but that new zone really ain't all that great and the big arena push is just depressing and as for class balance.... HAHAHA. Got to the stage where I'm going 'Is that it? All this time and money and this is all you monkeys could come up with???' PvP in warhammer is flat out better. Overall it's not my cup of tea but it is better than anything wotlk has to offer, and that's despite the various balance issues. TCoS and Aion on the otherhand really do the pvp/pve mix just great. So OP if your not interested in WAR and don't want to spend ur days running around in an arena box then I recommend ditching wow and saving ur money for tcos or Aion. Or you can listen to the wow fanbois and go play in a shiney new pvp zone which is GREA... ok rather lackluster and uninspired. Or go play BGs for scraps. Or run around and around and around in a pvp box where fotm class/teams still rule the roost (but don't worry they'll balance it nxt patch... no i mean next patch... ok next expansion... honest guv). |
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10/25/08 5:31:33 AM#22
Originally posted by grimboj That says that in the minimum amount of games, if you do well, it's possible that you can get enough arena points to purchase a good piece of gear each week. If you do horribly, it'll take you a while to get anything, though. They go on to say that it's fine if you don't like the arenas, as there are other options for progression available to you - but it would wrong to force those progression paths on those that DO enjoy the arena, and they should be able to get all their gear from it if they choose to. The guy also compares it to other parts of the game such as leveling, saying that it's similar in the fact that you actually have to invest some time and effort into improving your character enough to get to end-game, just as you have to invest some time and effort to actually get this gear. In my opinion, Arena should definitely be another form of progression, and it's alright - it definitely rewards skill better than most things out there. That reason, however, is why most people hate the arenas: because they don't HAVE any skill. They lose, they get frustrated, they complain the other classes are OP, they go back to grinding their shittier gear in the BGs, and continue to lose most of their matches in the arena anyway .... but guess what, after enough time of losses passes, you still manage to get a new piece of gear, which is great, right? No, because you want the whole set, and it takes too damn long, because you suck. That's too bad. NOTE: Yes, I suck at them, too, but I am not planning on using them as my path of progression. They're making everything a bit easier, with 10-man raids, and all that crap, that I'll be able to actually join in on the PvE, and play some BGs, and do the arenas now and then if I feel like it, because it's just another option available. |
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Azrile
Advanced Member
Joined: 7/29/08
Any new or returning player to WOW, send me a PM for some help getting started. |
10/25/08 6:33:39 AM#23
Gajari, I think you hit on a good point. One of the main reasons people do hate the Arena is because your skill is put 'out there'. Think about this.. 50% of all Arena players will lose more games then they win. Now think about the average MMORPG player What will they say when they lose The hatred towards Arenas is so pointed because half the players MUST lose, and their score is out there for anyone to see. No other MMORPG that I am aware of 'grades' people like this and makes it public. If you are an ex-wow player and want to come back. Scroll of Rez gives 7 free days, boost a character to 80 a realm and faction change. Send me PM for an invite. Only 1 per day available |
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10/25/08 7:50:30 AM#24
Originally posted by Azrile
Hehe, +3 for Armory!
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heartless
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
10/25/08 3:20:20 PM#25
Originally posted by Azrile
I don't think that it's a very accurate assessment. Arenas is not really about skill unless you're talking about equally geared teams consisting of the same classes. We all know that certain classes have a particular advantage against other classes and that certain team compositions are generally better in arenas than others. Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) this game is not really about skill. With that being said, personally, I dislike arenas because to me that's not what Warcraft should be about. Warcraft is suppose to be about war, not duels and esport. Yet, the esport arenas allow you to get the best PvP gear in the game and BGs (which mimic what Warcraft should be about, do not. Another reason is the organization involved. Where as in a BG, I can just log on and do a few AV's any time I want, when it comes to arenas, I have to make sure that I log on when my teammates are on and set some time of to grind with them. Basically, being a casual gamer, I get shafted. It doesn't matter though as I'm not planning on buying the expansion any time soon. In my opinion, there really is nothing new being introduced except for more grind.
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10/25/08 6:38:19 PM#26
Originally posted by heartless
I don't think that it's a very accurate assessment. Arenas is not really about skill unless you're talking about equally geared teams consisting of the same classes. We all know that certain classes have a particular advantage against other classes and that certain team compositions are generally better in arenas than others. Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) this game is not really about skill. With that being said, personally, I dislike arenas because to me that's not what Warcraft should be about. Warcraft is suppose to be about war, not duels and esport. Yet, the esport arenas allow you to get the best PvP gear in the game and BGs (which mimic what Warcraft should be about, do not. Another reason is the organization involved. Where as in a BG, I can just log on and do a few AV's any time I want, when it comes to arenas, I have to make sure that I log on when my teammates are on and set some time of to grind with them. Basically, being a casual gamer, I get shafted. It doesn't matter though as I'm not planning on buying the expansion any time soon. In my opinion, there really is nothing new being introduced except for more grind.
Since when is 10 games a week considered grinding? If you really are casual, how important is beeing on top for you? If you're goal is not to be on top, what's the problem with class setups? If you care about war, why do you even bother with arenas? If you care about gear, why do you make it sound like you care about war?
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10/25/08 7:39:59 PM#27
If you just want to log in and gank people why not just play a multiplayer game and save yourself time and money? Login, be balanced, and kill opposing players - all for the cost of a box, but without the subscription fee, or the grinding nonsense that comes with MMORPGs. And if you just have to spend 15 dollars a month and get no real value from it - give it to me! |
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heartless
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
10/25/08 9:42:22 PM#28
Originally posted by SonofSeth
Since when is 10 games a week considered grinding? I dislike Arenas, since I dislike doing them, forcing me to participate in them in order to stay competitive is grinding for me. Even if it was 1 game. If you really are casual, how important is beeing on top for you? Being that I play on a PvP server, being competitive is important because otherwise I'd be getting rolled by people who have grinded for the best PvP gear. Right now, I can still remain competitive even with last season's PvP epics, eventhough they aren't as good as the current ones. Once the expansion comes out, that will not be the case. If you're goal is not to be on top, what's the problem with class setups? My goal is to be competitive. Since gear > skill in WoW, figure out the rest. If you care about war, why do you even bother with arenas? Because, eventhough I hate arenas with a passion, in the new expansion I will have to do arenas to stay competitive. If you care about gear, why do you make it sound like you care about war? Because you cannot wage war with crappy gear.
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10/25/08 9:49:15 PM#29
WoW isnt focused on out door PvP or BG's anyhow , its focused on PvE so i guess it was only a matter of time eh. But they are going to implent the idea from Warhammer where you get exp from PvP so well yea, wont get me to switch back anyhow. |
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10/25/08 9:51:42 PM#30
I remember when the only epics I ever saw was from MC. Back then, working your ass off for good gear was a benefit in the rest of the world. Those were the days.... |
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10/25/08 11:49:01 PM#31
Originally posted by URMAKER
Amen. There is PvP but very much restricted, WoW is more catered to the general disney audience which includes lots of kids (not that its a bad thing), and therefore it's more of an instancing PvE game with some PvP elements. Which is disappointing to me, because Warcraft is a world based on warfare and raiding/ganking, non-consentual killing. |
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10/26/08 2:00:06 AM#32
Originally posted by heartless
What does it mean: "Stay Competitive"?
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10/26/08 8:37:54 AM#33
So if WoW requires so much skill in pvp, why are all the top teams and this is in the 2v2 bracket melee/healer. Not much skill there when rogue/warrior and now pallys and shamans to some extent, can tear thur your ass in under 10 secs. And its kinda pointless trying to dps the healer when they heal thur all your damage, and you can forget about kiting the melee classes cause its not going to happen. WoW pvp =skill nah. WoW pvp =fotm class ya |
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10/26/08 8:54:53 AM#34
Originally posted by Azrile
That is what I was thinking too. I don't see why someone would hate doing 10 2v2Arena games but love doing 10 WSG games. I personally love EotS and AV, but don't enjoy WSG and AB. I'd rather do Arena than WSG. It begs the question - When Blizzard does figure out a way to rank BGs, and they do put the best armor in BGs.. will people want to get ALL their armor by doing just 1 BG..and will they complain if Blizzard makes them do WSG and AB to complete their sets. Personally I do not enjoy objectiveless PvP like that of the arenas and I never set foot into them after trying a few matches early on. I find battelgrounds fun, because there is a little more strategy involved than just "kill that guy over there". I don't care how good the gear is if I hate doing the activity involved to get it. There are plenty of people in my guild that feel the same away and just travel alterate paths of advancement. Honestly that is one of the better aspects of WoW, so many ways to advance your character. As with all MMOs, the majority of players will gravitate towards the path of least resistance. Battlegrounds, areanas it doesn't matter.
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heartless
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
10/26/08 7:51:04 PM#35
Originally posted by SonofSeth
What does it mean: "Stay Competitive"?
Staying competitive, in my case, means that I have decent enough gear so that I can defend myself from a player who's character has the best PvP gear available, when the said player is bored and tries to gank me while I'm going about my business. As I said before, I'm on a PvP server and surviving ganks and potential camps is important. If I was on a PvE server, gear wouldn't really matter to me. I enjoy the "dangers" of the PvP server but the simple fact that Blizzard is trying to force people into a certain game style is a complete turn off for me. I like it how it is now. I can go about getting decent gear at my own pace without having to make arrangements and forgo real life obligations. I can also enjoy PvP without having to resort to min/maxing arena BS and the whole "Arena team LF any class. Must have 400+ resilience" nonsense.
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10/27/08 2:10:46 AM#36
Originally posted by heartless
In that case you don't have to worry. You can still get decent gear without spending 1 second in the arena. You just have to accept that it wont be the best gear currently available. (PVP gear that is)
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10/27/08 6:17:26 AM#37
Originally posted by heartless
I don't think that it's a very accurate assessment. Arenas is not really about skill unless you're talking about equally geared teams consisting of the same classes. We all know that certain classes have a particular advantage against other classes and that certain team compositions are generally better in arenas than others. Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) this game is not really about skill. With that being said, personally, I dislike arenas because to me that's not what Warcraft should be about. Warcraft is suppose to be about war, not duels and esport. Yet, the esport arenas allow you to get the best PvP gear in the game and BGs (which mimic what Warcraft should be about, do not. Another reason is the organization involved. Where as in a BG, I can just log on and do a few AV's any time I want, when it comes to arenas, I have to make sure that I log on when my teammates are on and set some time of to grind with them. Basically, being a casual gamer, I get shafted. It doesn't matter though as I'm not planning on buying the expansion any time soon. In my opinion, there really is nothing new being introduced except for more grind.
Actually, part of skill would include making an arena team with classes and specs that work well togethor... for example, an arena team with 2 prot pallys would get ownd by everyone, but an arena team with a ret pally and a holy pally/resto druid would do much better |
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10/27/08 8:08:58 AM#38
Really ? I quit playing about 2 months ago cause they destroy the warlock class (my class) in WOTLK. Now i read they want peoples to play arenas for the best gears ? I dont see myself playing WOW again. |
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10/27/08 8:24:04 AM#39
Originally posted by eq2js
Actually, part of skill would include making an arena team with classes and specs that work well togethor... for example, an arena team with 2 prot pallys would get ownd by everyone, but an arena team with a ret pally and a holy pally/resto druid would do much better
I suspect their whole argument is against that. I just find it silly how some people want to be one of the top teams and not want to compromise not even slightly. FPS games are going strong for exactly that reason, some people just want their acomplishment to be a reasult of nothing else but pure player skill. I can understand that, but arena style PVP has one more layer of depth which consists of some form of tactical planing before you enter arena. I'm playing 2 rogue 2v2 arena team, but I know we're very much fucked if go against pally/warrior, but we wanted it that way, some luck, some risk, and all the skill we got. I was never over 1900 rating, but still, every victory is that much more rewarding because I know, it was me and my buddy who made it, not some group, or because we were fotm.
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10/30/08 10:48:16 AM#40
I think the OP is totally confused as to what hes talking about in his first post and just gets even more confused in the 2nd. I am just gunna run down some stuff here that should be known to all who post in this thread already. 10 games for arena credit has been the same since the begining of arenas. PVP in WoW is a rocks/paper/scissors game. Arenas are the best place for this to be seen. Specific teams come out on top of other teams. All combos have a team they are atleast weak to. Arenas come down to communication and CC mainly. You don't just run in an go balls to the wall you save mana, energy rage, cc's and instant casts for specific moments. (IE, rogue/priest team got a warrior down to 40%, priest fears druid healer for warrior but he trinkets and starts to cast, rogue blinds druid, and once blind is almost up shs saps him. if warrior is still going by the time this is up the priest can sneak another fear in) Since the start of BC bg gear has always been crap except for the 3 pieces of non set epics the trinkets and possibly a gem here and there. I am sure bg'ers will still have the option of getting said crap gear from only bg'ing if they want it. The GM post u posted breaks down to this: For the epics Arena players must bg for enough points to buy them...so why can the bg player get them without having to arena? Thats why they made rating changes as well as point requirements 4 gear. (see list of new arena gear and ratings/points) BG's take far less skill or knowledge of your class then arenas. You can roll into a BG in all blues and still be top 10 in your faction. AV is pretty much just a pve gear battle, wsg just depends if your runner/healers have gear, eots can easily be won with smart playing as well as ab. Arenas require u to figure out what gear to wear, partner to roll with, resil lvls and specs will work best for survivability or max dps. If you love bg's just stick to bg's and get the gear it offers its not terribad just not as good as arena gear. not to many people who arena full time go to bg's just to pwn guys in lower gear, I mean they could be getting there ratings up.
New gear lists: 3 tiers of arena gear.... tier 1 requires no rating just weekly points earned from 10 games tier 2 requires average ratings and tier 3 takes a little skill....
Savage Gladiator's requirements: Hateful Gladiator's requirements: Deadly Gladiator's requirements:
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