Originally posted by Wakygreek

Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.

Hold the phone..

a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??

This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.

I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....

Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.

I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....

THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!

Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.

Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.

The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.

Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...

First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.

Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.

Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.

Originally posted by teddyboy420

This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.

I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....

Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.

I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....

THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!

Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.

Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.

The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.

Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...

First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.

Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.

Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.

That is wrong.

Ironbreaker has no counter class on destro and we have no counter class for Chosen.. Those would be

Black guard and Knight of the Blazing Sun

WE counter class is WH but Witch hunters have to distribute balistic skill in the mix as WE get more Spike damage frmo just strength and weapon skill

 You serious? Even at level 8 my shadow warrior was getting about 30+ kills per round, no biggie.

Sorry if this ends up as a double-post, but I just wanted to express how much I am looking forward to KotBS and Blackguards to be implemented.

Both classes look really cool, and I may have to roll up a KotBS as my new main. It'll be tough leaving my beloved Witch Hunter behind, but I am a support-class player from waaaay back and was hugely disapointed when there were no "true" support classes in WAR. I am talking about EQ Bards, and Enchanter type classes, those are my favorite types of classes, and KotBS seems to be a close fit to EQ Bards.

I'll have to wait and see how things turn out, but if it ends up like they are portraying the class, I'm down to play a Knight of the Blazing Sun.

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.

 

Hold the phone..

a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??

No I dont. because a dps class at 30 which is around the same level that tank is, is going to do more damage . if a Sorc can crit me for 1k at 21 at 29 almost 10 levels higher that damage is going to be much higher isnt it? if my lvl 15 SW can crit for 900, at 30 I can prob crit 1700 or more. Besides the OP more then likely had an armor debuff on...90% of the time when you want to kill a tank you always want some sort of armor debuff to get in the extra damage.  Lets not forget that the OP has not mentioned yet if he was wearing a shield or a 2 hander.  Because certain abilities are granted for those wearing shields which increase armor and defense.  There are many variables here to look at.  You cant just show a screen shot of a tank doing 1200 and automatically assume its broken. I mean it could be but given all the classes ive played (including chosen and BO) the damage seems correct. especially if they are using a 2 hander. 

In the end a patch is comming out to address the issue if indeed it is one. But I have to call Shennanigans untill you guys can give me the debuffs/buffs of all the players involved.  Im not saying it to be a jerk, but in all honesty to be sure if this is a bug, or just some good pvping. 

(*) I just want to note that in tier 2 my SW does 30-40k damage with lvl 15 skills. in Tier 2 i have seen a sorc/BW do over 66k damage. You cannot possibly tell me that 4 BW (unless they suck completely) couldnt break 45k in tier 3.  Even on a bad night I cant even see that happening (unless they joined late)

Actually when I got sick of running into certain things I made an Iron Breaker.  Honestly I almost never play tanks.. just not even where I want to be in a game.

I will say I almost never had a problem being the top or close to top dps.  While everyone was complaining about BW's...

Then again I had hit cancel by day 3 and didn't even log in the last 5 days or so of my "free 30 days".  I really wish the game had made me feel more like DAoC did early on.  Mostly so I wouldn't feel like I wasted money.. and would have something to amuse myself with for a couple years.

Originally posted by Pangaea

Originally posted by teddyboy420

This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.

I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....

Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.

I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....

THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!

Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.

Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.

The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.

Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...

First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.

Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.

Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.

 

That is wrong.

Ironbreaker has no counter class on destro and we have no counter class for Chosen.. Those would be

Black guard and Knight of the Blazing Sun

WE counter class is WH but Witch hunters have to distribute balistic skill in the mix as WE get more Spike damage frmo just strength and weapon skill

 

  Yeah, the Ironbreakers and Chosen's mirrors aren't in yet, this is true, but each side has a tank the other doesn't so it evens out. And don't even try to tell me it doesn't, each side has 4 very capable tanks.

As far as WH being weaker then WE's b/c of the Ballistic Skill being needed to be peppered in, it makes almost no difference b/c most WH gear worth it's salt has both Str and Bal-Skill. I have BOTH Str and Bal-skill close to 500, and while my weapon skill is a lilttle lower as a result, I have no problem chewing up and spitting out WE's, casters, and other melee-dps classes.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.

 

Hold the phone..

a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??

 

No I dont. because a dps class at 30 which is around the same level that tank is, is going to do more damage then a 1 person nuke crit. if a Sorc can crit me for 1k at 21 at 29 almost 10 levels higher that damage is going to be much higher isnt it? if my lvl 15 SW can crit for 900, at 30 I can prob crit 1700 or more. Besides the OP more then likely had an armor debuff on...90% of the time when you want to kill a tank you always want some sort of armor debuff to get in the extra damage.  Lets not forget that the OP has not mentioned yet if he was wearing a shield or a 2 hander.  Because certain abilities are granted for those wearing shields which increase armor and defense.  There are many variables here to look at.  You cant just show a screen shot of a tank doing 1200 and automatically assume its broken. I mean it could be but given all the classes ive played (including chosen and BO) the damage seems correct. especially if they are using a 2 hander. 

In the end a patch is comming out to address the issue if indeed it is one. But I have to call Shennanigans untill you guys can give me the debuffs/buffs of all the players involved.  Im not saying it to be a jerk, but in all honesty to be sure if this is a bug, or just some good pvping. 

(*) I just want to note that in tier 2 my SW does 30-40k damage with lvl 15 skills. in Tier 2 i have seen a sorc/BW do over 66k damage. You cannot possibly tell me that 4 BW (unless they suck completely) couldnt break 45k in tier 3.  Even on a bad night I cant even see that happening (unless they joined late)

Guess you didn't see the screen shot with the BW's..

And at 21.. a sorcerer isn't consitently critting for 1k.  Oh.. and did you know they are wearing a wet napkin for armor?  Oh?? Right..

Originally posted by teddyboy420

This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.

I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....

Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.

I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....

THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!

Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.

Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.

The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.

Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...

First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.

Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.

Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.

No.

this post.

NO NO NO.

KOTBS=Chosen

BG=IB

KOTBS and BG have not been implemnted yet.   So. NO.  Every class doe snot have a mirror. Oh.. and we don't need to bring up the Sorc = BW.. because they dont' equal out.    Until you've played both.. you don't know. 

This entire thread is ridiculous.

I play the Ironbreaker.

Ironbreakers have faults as well. It is true I always out dps the bright wizard and it is typically true I hold the highest kill rate in most scenarios I play.

The dps is not the leading factor to my kills however. It is the fact that I wear 3 times the armor of a BW and are always in the front lines. I am always in the face of the enemy and I play smart switching targets on the fly to hit any wounded destruction player I see close to death with my 2 bleed axe attacks which ALWAYS finish the job. If I am not playing cleanup then I am running down Zealots or Shamans. 2 Shotting annoying Sorcs that get in the way.

*Side note to sorcs and magus - NEVER try and freeze/snare an Ironbreaker your just gonna piss them off and they will break it with juggernaut anyway and come beat your face in. Better to just let them slip by on their way to the healer since you are only #2 on their kill list and live a little longer. That or you could just keep trying to freeze them and gain their attention and eat some dirt. Up to you.

Ok back to the topic at hand. I play Vengence line which is more of a 2hander STR based dps line. Going this route really dampens my armor and block because of loss of shield. Which means I die faster than the Stone line counterparts.

Ironbreakers go like this, you can toss your shield and do a shit ton of damage fast and die a lot.

OR

Keep your shield and do minimal damage and block for order holding the line and playing protector.

Either of these come at a cost. You can't have it all and you have to give up 1 or the other. DPS or Supeior Armor.... you have to choose.

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.

 

Hold the phone..

a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??

 

No I dont. because a dps class at 30 which is around the same level that tank is, is going to do more damage then a 1 person nuke crit. if a Sorc can crit me for 1k at 21 at 29 almost 10 levels higher that damage is going to be much higher isnt it? if my lvl 15 SW can crit for 900, at 30 I can prob crit 1700 or more. Besides the OP more then likely had an armor debuff on...90% of the time when you want to kill a tank you always want some sort of armor debuff to get in the extra damage.  Lets not forget that the OP has not mentioned yet if he was wearing a shield or a 2 hander.  Because certain abilities are granted for those wearing shields which increase armor and defense.  There are many variables here to look at.  You cant just show a screen shot of a tank doing 1200 and automatically assume its broken. I mean it could be but given all the classes ive played (including chosen and BO) the damage seems correct. especially if they are using a 2 hander. 

In the end a patch is comming out to address the issue if indeed it is one. But I have to call Shennanigans untill you guys can give me the debuffs/buffs of all the players involved.  Im not saying it to be a jerk, but in all honesty to be sure if this is a bug, or just some good pvping. 

(*) I just want to note that in tier 2 my SW does 30-40k damage with lvl 15 skills. in Tier 2 i have seen a sorc/BW do over 66k damage. You cannot possibly tell me that 4 BW (unless they suck completely) couldnt break 45k in tier 3.  Even on a bad night I cant even see that happening (unless they joined late)

 

Guess you didn't see the screen shot with the BW's..

And at 21.. a sorcerer isn't consitently critting for 1k.  Oh.. and did you know they are wearing a wet napkin for armor?  Oh?? Right..

I saw the screen shot of the BW's, and im telling you that BW's generally do way more then that in your average Scenario. and a 21 sorcerer can crit constantly for 1k..its very easy...im not going to discuss this with you random because you tend to be condensending which is very annoying (I will however explain this once). If I hop on my BW and i build up his combustion..lets say using is pbaoe to 100% combustion.  I am going to have a 100% damage increase with a 50% chance to crit and a 50% chance to backlash.  If I was 21 and built up my combustion i would have a 50% chance to crit you for 1K and thats not including if I had modifiers to my stats like a hell of alot of INT to do even more damage.  My point is..a well speced good player with good gear that knows how to play their class, will hand you yours in a battle. I dont expect you to understand everything I am saying because aparantly your more interested in screen shots and not how that 1200 landed.
 

If I take a screen shot of a Healer criting for 900 off a spell at 30 would you find that odd? Would you imeediately say its broken?  What if there is a way that healer could pull it off, if the situation was right? Dont be so fast to discredit everything you dont know based on a few pictures.

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by teddyboy420

This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.

I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....

Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.

I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....

THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!

Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.

Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.

The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.

Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...

First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.

Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.

Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.

 

No.

this post.

NO NO NO.

KOTBS=Chosen

BG=IB

KOTBS and BG have not been implemnted yet.   So. NO.  Every class doe snot have a mirror. Oh.. and we don't need to bring up the Sorc = BW.. because they dont' equal out.    Until you've played both.. you don't know. 

As I said in response to another post, yes, the Chosen and Ironbreakers mirrors aren't in yet. But it really does not matter as each side has 4 VERY capable tanks, and each side has a tank the other doesn't. So, YES, YES, YES, it DOES even out. Is the Chosen an awesome tank? Yes. Is the Ironbreaker an awesome tank? Yes. So, they balance each other other w/ the lack of thier mirrors being in-game.

And I was an Elder Tester, and have played both Sorc's and Bright Wizards. It used to be that the BW had a lot over the Sorc, but in the last weeks of beta they really brought the Sorc up to snuff. Go and look at each ones abilities, mastery trees, etc, they are almost identical except for the types of dmg they each do. I haven't played either past t2 since release, but on my main, about to move into t4, I have seen BWs and Sorcs each top 100k dmg, and more then double (in some cases triple) the total dmg done by the next closest class in scenarios. So yes, I DO know.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.

 

Hold the phone..

a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??

 

No I dont. because a dps class at 30 which is around the same level that tank is, is going to do more damage then a 1 person nuke crit. if a Sorc can crit me for 1k at 21 at 29 almost 10 levels higher that damage is going to be much higher isnt it? if my lvl 15 SW can crit for 900, at 30 I can prob crit 1700 or more. Besides the OP more then likely had an armor debuff on...90% of the time when you want to kill a tank you always want some sort of armor debuff to get in the extra damage.  Lets not forget that the OP has not mentioned yet if he was wearing a shield or a 2 hander.  Because certain abilities are granted for those wearing shields which increase armor and defense.  There are many variables here to look at.  You cant just show a screen shot of a tank doing 1200 and automatically assume its broken. I mean it could be but given all the classes ive played (including chosen and BO) the damage seems correct. especially if they are using a 2 hander. 

In the end a patch is comming out to address the issue if indeed it is one. But I have to call Shennanigans untill you guys can give me the debuffs/buffs of all the players involved.  Im not saying it to be a jerk, but in all honesty to be sure if this is a bug, or just some good pvping. 

(*) I just want to note that in tier 2 my SW does 30-40k damage with lvl 15 skills. in Tier 2 i have seen a sorc/BW do over 66k damage. You cannot possibly tell me that 4 BW (unless they suck completely) couldnt break 45k in tier 3.  Even on a bad night I cant even see that happening (unless they joined late)

 

Guess you didn't see the screen shot with the BW's..

And at 21.. a sorcerer isn't consitently critting for 1k.  Oh.. and did you know they are wearing a wet napkin for armor?  Oh?? Right..

I saw the screen shot of the BW's, and im telling you that BW's generally do way more then that in your average Scenario. and a 21 sorcerer can crit constantly for 1k..its very easy...im not going to discuss this with you random because you tend to be condensending which is very annoying (I will however explain this once). If I hop on my BW and i build up his combustion..lets say using is pbaoe to 100% combustion.  I am going to have a 100% damage increase with a 50% chance to crit and a 50% chance to backlash.  If I was 21 and built up my combustion i would have a 50% chance to crit you for 1K and thats not including if I had modifiers to my stats like a hell of alot of INT to do even more damage.  My point is..a well speced good player with good gear that knows how to play their class, will hand you yours in a battle. I dont expect you to understand everything I am saying because aparantly your more interested in screen shots and not how that 1200 landed.
 

If I take a screen shot of a Healer criting for 900 off a spell at 30 would you find that odd? Would you imeediately say its broken?  What if there is a way that healer could pull it off, if the situation was right? Dont be so fast to discredit everything you dont know based on a few pictures.

One: I play a sorcerer.. and I'm 23.. and I run 100 DM.. and I don't consitently hit for 1k at 23. 

And two.. if the BW are hitting so hard.. then why aren't they showing there?  At least better than what is being shown. 

Again.. it's an order player saying that one of their classes isn't over powered.. I'm not surprised. 

I'd drop to your level and insult you, but I don't see the point of being banned again.. for teling people like it is..

Well, I play a Witchunter as my main and I have been knocked into the lava a bunch of time by ranged knockback and Melee knock back from destruction. Both sides have it.  The funny thing about that talk is 90% of it surrounds 1 scenario where that makes a huge difference.

LMAO!

This has got to take the cake. A destro tank complaining about order being overpowered.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I do that much damage on a normal fireball, it all depends on what level the other player is compared to you. If you are a couple levels lower than them then they do more damage. At level 25 I consistantly do 50k+ per scenario, but I also have 5 to 10 deaths. There's two sides to everything. Quit whining, that just makes you look like a n00b. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Get used to it.

Originally posted by skydragonren

This entire thread is ridiculous.

 

I play the Ironbreaker.

Ironbreakers have faults as well. It is true I always out dps the bright wizard and it is typically true I hold the highest kill rate in most scenarios I play.

The dps is not the leading factor to my kills however. It is the fact that I wear 3 times the armor of a BW and are always in the front lines. I am always in the face of the enemy and I play smart switching targets on the fly to hit any wounded destruction player I see close to death with my 2 bleed axe attacks which ALWAYS finish the job. If I am not playing cleanup then I am running down Zealots or Shamans. 2 Shotting annoying Sorcs that get in the way.

*Side note to sorcs and magus - NEVER try and freeze/snare an Ironbreaker your just gonna piss them off and they will break it with juggernaut anyway and come beat your face in. Better to just let them slip by on their way to the healer since you are only #2 on their kill list and live a little longer. That or you could just keep trying to freeze them and gain their attention and eat some dirt. Up to you.

Ok back to the topic at hand. I play Vengence line which is more of a 2hander STR based dps line. Going this route really dampens my armor and block because of loss of shield. Which means I die faster than the Stone line counterparts.

 

Ironbreakers go like this, you can toss your shield and do a shit ton of damage fast and die a lot.

OR

Keep your shield and do minimal damage and block for order holding the line and playing protector.

Either of these come at a cost. You can't have it all and you have to give up 1 or the other. DPS or Supeior Armor.... you have to choose.

 

 

This post proves the whole point of this thread. Ironbreakers at the moment are overpowered, not grossly, but they are. Hard to kill, dish out ridiculous amounts of damage to casters and have knock/snare/slow abilities that make you  bite your keyboard. Additionally, most to all destro classes complain about Ironbreakers, sorcs, healers, witchelfs, chosen... this only ADDs credibility to the claim.

This guy above says he two-shots sorcs and reaps healers while finishing low-health destro players. And it IS true, Ironbreakers go beserk within caster lines most of the time and are incredibly hard to kill.

Why is this? - Because it was the only true order tank class left after the class cut so they needed to make this class attractive; plus barnett said once that they don't want tank classes to only tank and be dps-gimped, so that's the IB, a heavy armored upper third damage machine. That's just my guess but it makes sense. He'll eventually get the nerfbat though, I take any bet...

M

Well, just battled it out in open RvR with my 20 Warrior Priest vs. 21 Chosen. After about 5-6 encounters, he managed to outdamage my healing powers while barely taking any damage himself. In all honesty, the battles maybe lasted about 2 minutes each. It took him about 30 seconds to get me to half health and after that I was struggling to heal and unable to return damage.

So, Iron Breakers get an AoE knock back, yada yada. This is not a make or break factor and does not mean Chosen are gimp compared to Iron Breakers. Cause at 21, if a Chosen can crit 50-70% of his attacks, thats impressive. Considering he was doing 130-250 damage per attack.

So maybe Chosen crit more often than Iron Breakers, ever think about that?

stop winning like a cry baby.

order should be way more powerful than it is atm. you lucky they didnt make order as powerful as it is ingame.

Im in tier 4 and I've seen chosen do over 100k dps in a sc. I have never seen an ironbreaker come anywhere near that. Please stop your crying because a lil guy with a beard pwned you.