Originally posted by Exar_Kun

Originally posted by jsolo15

If your going into this game expecting to see a sandbox, 30+ profession  and advance crafting like SWG your going to be disappointed.

Have a open mind and forget Pre CU and SWG! This is a different company with different goals

You have to look at what Bioware is good at and that storytelling and creative choice driven quest. Baldur Gate, KoTOR 1, NWN, Jade Empire and Mass Effect all show you the type of game we will be getting from them.  Yes, the world will be must bigger then a SP game don't expect a sandbox. 

 From what I heard this dev team are all big MMO players. They like to try games out. Must of them played other games  AOC , LOTR , WOW and now are playing WAR.  So I'm sure they seem what has fail and what works. If they are smart they will be bring what works from the other MMO into this game. Just like WOW did when it first was released.

We just have alittle more then 24 hours to go!

 

What if BiOWARE decides to prove to the world that they can do more than just tell a great story. Maybe they will decide to give the people what they want for a change....

....A great Sandbox Game that tells a great Story...how ya like that? I mean how dare they give everyone what they want. I mean that would just be wrong right?

What a Concept.

Maybe you are going to be disappointed. "Prove to the world" ? Honestly, if you aren't the least bit skeptic on MMO's productions to come, you should be.

Anytime the glass has been half full the past few years, it's been half-full of Koolaid.

This isn't Christmas, and Bioware isn't Santa.

Also, a  "Sandbox Game that tells a great story is what everyone wants" is a bit far-fetched. It's a niche that many of us would crave, not the norm.

It's a great concept by the way, it's just not the answer to the first question a developper asks themselves...

"What kind of game can we build that will be incredibly successful and sell well?"

Whatever Bioware do, they will disappoint some people.  That is a fact.

"Hope for the Best. Expect the worst. Life is a play. We're unrehearsed." - Mel Brooks

In short. No.

After all the time, dedication and money I put in to my character in the Pre-CU/NGE SWG, I would have no interest at doing the same thing all over again. Especially if it involved me paying a monthly fee again.

I don't think it's possible to have both a great story and a sandbox, they are two diametrically opposed things.  Sandboxes assume a level of freedom that's nigh impossible to integrate with a story that needs to be the central focus.  That's why single player games where you are the focus of the story are so linear.  They need you to do certain things so that dialogs and plot elements fall into place.

I kind of hope they take the tack of Mass Effect, where there are regional areas that have their own stories.  I don't need an overall plot arc in a MMO.  I'd rather have smaller, bite sized, interesting areas that you work in and solve.

On a final note, I hope they don't do anything like the SOE version of the game.  If they made it Pre-CU it would be a disaster on an unprecedented scale.  I can't even imaging the bad press they would get from that kind of move.  So my vote would be no... as Pre-CU would be a markeplace failure.

Edit: One other note.  Any Star Wars game that doesn't let most people become Jedi is doomed to also fail.  Who wants to play in that genre and not be one?

Edit: One other note.  Any Star Wars game that doesn't let most people become Jedi is doomed to also fail.  Who wants to play in that genre and not be one?

On the other hand, who'd want to played anything BUT a jedi if it is a standard class in an MMO?

Those who want to be a jedi would expect to be the best in combat.  Which reduces any attraction in other classes.

Becoming a Jedi should be a "Prestige" experience  e.g. 10 people per week find an artifact which unlocks their potential.  Meaning that after 1 year, 17% of a 3000 maximum capacity server will be jedi "attuned".

NO SWG is dead....... If it's not a new game and new ideas then why bother?

Originally posted by Balkin31

NO SWG is dead....... If it's not a new game and new ideas then why bother?

 

 

LOL.. this post made me laugh..

Either you are blind..  or dillusional.  There hasn't been a 'new game' design in years.  And those that are "new" fail miserably.  Originality does not sell.  People like things they are familiar with. 

Originally posted by Decadentia

Originally posted by Exar_Kun

Originally posted by jsolo15

If your going into this game expecting to see a sandbox, 30+ profession  and advance crafting like SWG your going to be disappointed.

Have a open mind and forget Pre CU and SWG! This is a different company with different goals

You have to look at what Bioware is good at and that storytelling and creative choice driven quest. Baldur Gate, KoTOR 1, NWN, Jade Empire and Mass Effect all show you the type of game we will be getting from them.  Yes, the world will be must bigger then a SP game don't expect a sandbox. 

 From what I heard this dev team are all big MMO players. They like to try games out. Must of them played other games  AOC , LOTR , WOW and now are playing WAR.  So I'm sure they seem what has fail and what works. If they are smart they will be bring what works from the other MMO into this game. Just like WOW did when it first was released.

We just have alittle more then 24 hours to go!

 

What if BiOWARE decides to prove to the world that they can do more than just tell a great story. Maybe they will decide to give the people what they want for a change....

....A great Sandbox Game that tells a great Story...how ya like that? I mean how dare they give everyone what they want. I mean that would just be wrong right?

What a Concept.

 

Maybe you are going to be disappointed. "Prove to the world" ? Honestly, if you aren't the least bit skeptic on MMO's productions to come, you should be.

Anytime the glass has been half full the past few years, it's been half-full of Koolaid.

This isn't Christmas, and Bioware isn't Santa.

Also, a  "Sandbox Game that tells a great story is what everyone wants" is a bit far-fetched. It's a niche that many of us would crave, not the norm.

It's a great concept by the way, it's just not the answer to the first question a developper asks themselves...

"What kind of game can we build that will be incredibly successful and sell well?"

I agree 100 %.
 

Would I like to see a SWG Pre CU game again. Hell ya and with all the rich skill base professions. 

It seems MMO player are not the type of player that like to create their own content. WOW prove one thing must player like to be lead from content to content. They need to be hand held thru  levels and quest.

Look at EVE that a Sandbox with a mix of many professions it the best  it can get for player created content and all it can do is 200000 subs. It consider a very successfull game, but it just a niche. Must player that try it find it to complex or to ruthless as it open PVP...

We have to face the fact WOW is the standard in the MMO world.  A good development team is going to have to look at them and find what make the game so appealing. No, I don't believe Bioware will make a WOW clone.

We will have some details tomorrow

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Balkin31

NO SWG is dead....... If it's not a new game and new ideas then why bother?

 

 

 

LOL.. this post made me laugh..

Either you are blind..  or dillusional.  There hasn't been a 'new game' design in years.  And those that are "new" fail miserably.  Originality does not sell.  People like things they are familiar with. 

I guess that explains the overwhelming popularity of the latest games released? Face it... games have slumped downhill and only new ideas can pull them out!

Oh and way to be a sheep dude... Freekin conformists...

It wouldnt be enough for me.  I only liked SWG because of the Star Wars aspect of it.   Never found it to be a great game or MMO by any means.

Originally posted by Tarka

Edit: One other note.  Any Star Wars game that doesn't let most people become Jedi is doomed to also fail.  Who wants to play in that genre and not be one?

On the other hand, who'd want to played anything BUT a jedi if it is a standard class in an MMO?

Those who want to be a jedi would expect to be the best in combat.  Which reduces any attraction in other classes.

Becoming a Jedi should be a "Prestige" experience  e.g. 10 people per week find an artifact which unlocks their potential.  Meaning that after 1 year, 17% of a 3000 maximum capacity server will be jedi "attuned".

Regardless of what it should be... if you can not be a Jedi, with a minimal amount of work, the game will not do well.  Casual players who are Star Wars fans won't stand for it.  They didn't before, and they won't again.  People get bent out of shape in games where they can't easily do what they want.  If the casual player doesn't have the opportunity to play the coolest concept in Star Wars, they will quit in droves.

We'll see...

it will never happen

however if it did no it would not be enough.  i would want more content added regularly.  PvP would be nearly utterelly ignored (nerfs/buffs) and crafting would have more recepies added.

Nope definately not. I would avoid it like the plague simply because its Star Wars. Oh dont get me wrong I like the films a lot. I loved them when I was a kid.......but I'm sick to death of seeing Star Wars games getting churned out every few years.

I would play a game based on an original idea though.

Ultima Online was my favorite MMO ever... SWG Pre-CU was the other one.  It would have been "the one" but it was more limited than UO had been.  I'm talking mostly about the first 2 years of UO... which changed much like SWG change (altho it still doesn't have levels).

For reasons uknown everyone in game development seems to think levels are the way to go.  Well not everyone but the overwhelming majority of games that actually come to market are level based.

This imho is also why the majority of games.. to be blunt.. suck.

To the OP I don't see BioWare as even being capable of making Pre-CU.  Yes they have people or access to people with the talent to do it.  Its just not something they have ever seemed to show much interest in.

They talk of Story driven...  story driven in general means linear.  Which means a game with very little choice and a clearly defined path.  The objective is to present the player with things that seem like choices.  This distracts you from the fact that the path from A to B was always pre-defined and limited.

Think about Age of Conan... if it had launchd bug free.   That's the idea of a "story driven" game.. what I call ez-mode game development.

So the short version is I don't ever see this happening.

The next part would be:

No matter who creates/implements a game with LEC on it... the license belongs to Lucas Arts.  Its one of the most protected IP's in the world.

Have any of you actually done work where Lucas Arts was involved?  If you have then you know the type of anal retentive control they maintain on ALL projects.

This means two things:

1) The game will basicly launch as WoW with Star Wars skins.  This being the attempt to capture "the massive star wars fanbase".  It would also allow them to not have to mandate an "NGE" to be developed and implemented by the company who "creates" the game.

2) If the numbers are not where they shoulud be for an IP such as Star Wars... there will be change.. radical and extreme change.

So nothing against bioware.. but I don't expect to:

1) Get anything like Pre-CU

or

2) even bother buying the game if it is a star wars game.  (checks calender for announcement date..) *ponder*

 *edited for some clarifications*

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I'd be happy, although, it would have to be more polished and balanced.

Bioware lost it down the road (EA )so no rather have a new mmo by bethesda:)

Originally posted by zymurgeist

It would be enough to make me swear off anything Bioware ever made in the future. Recreating other people's failures isn't a good business plan.

I have similar feelings.  Do you think they should even give a passing thought to the bitter ex-swg players?  I didn't play swg and after years of listening to the moan, it would be cool if the game was great, popular and they were not playing it.

Originally posted by Tarka

Edit: One other note.  Any Star Wars game that doesn't let most people become Jedi is doomed to also fail.  Who wants to play in that genre and not be one?

 

On the other hand, who'd want to played anything BUT a jedi if it is a standard class in an MMO?

Those who want to be a jedi would expect to be the best in combat.  Which reduces any attraction in other classes.

Becoming a Jedi should be a "Prestige" experience  e.g. 10 people per week find an artifact which unlocks their potential.  Meaning that after 1 year, 17% of a 3000 maximum capacity server will be jedi "attuned".

Forgetting the flippant answer of sith.  They don't have to be alpha classes unless someone puts on narrowly focused glasses and stubborningly stay there.  I didn't play SWG because of how they did the jedi and will stay away if they do the same thing here.  Jedi are star wars, period, not up for debate.  Without them, it isn't a star wars game.

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by Tarka

Edit: One other note.  Any Star Wars game that doesn't let most people become Jedi is doomed to also fail.  Who wants to play in that genre and not be one?

 

On the other hand, who'd want to played anything BUT a jedi if it is a standard class in an MMO?

Those who want to be a jedi would expect to be the best in combat.  Which reduces any attraction in other classes.

Becoming a Jedi should be a "Prestige" experience  e.g. 10 people per week find an artifact which unlocks their potential.  Meaning that after 1 year, 17% of a 3000 maximum capacity server will be jedi "attuned".

Forgetting the flippant answer of sith.  They don't have to be alpha classes unless someone puts on narrowly focused glasses and stubborningly stay there.  I didn't play SWG because of how they did the jedi and will stay away if they do the same thing here.  Jedi are star wars, period, not up for debate.  Without them, it isn't a star wars game.

The thought of someone running around as a Level 1 jedi just sounds like a contradiction to me.  I'm not for one second saying that there shouldn't be ANY jedi in the game.  On the contrary.   But I feel that becoming a Jedi should be something to work towards, not something you start a game as surely?

Originally posted by Tarka

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by Tarka

Edit: One other note.  Any Star Wars game that doesn't let most people become Jedi is doomed to also fail.  Who wants to play in that genre and not be one?

 

On the other hand, who'd want to played anything BUT a jedi if it is a standard class in an MMO?

Those who want to be a jedi would expect to be the best in combat.  Which reduces any attraction in other classes.

Becoming a Jedi should be a "Prestige" experience  e.g. 10 people per week find an artifact which unlocks their potential.  Meaning that after 1 year, 17% of a 3000 maximum capacity server will be jedi "attuned".

Forgetting the flippant answer of sith.  They don't have to be alpha classes unless someone puts on narrowly focused glasses and stubborningly stay there.  I didn't play SWG because of how they did the jedi and will stay away if they do the same thing here.  Jedi are star wars, period, not up for debate.  Without them, it isn't a star wars game.

The thought of someone running around as a Level 1 jedi just sounds like a contradiction to me.  I'm not for one second saying that there shouldn't be ANY jedi in the game.  On the contrary.   But I feel that becoming a Jedi should be something to work towards, not something you start a game as surely?

I played muds for years back in the day and love remort systems. But part of the reason such things existed, besides offering a goal to shoot for, was because most muds didn't have the amount of content mmorpgs have.    I don't agree that they must be something worked for and do believe they could be offered to a new customer right from day one.

Not to distust todays modern devs, I don't trust how they do unlocks.  IIRC, there strong rumors that the initial jedi in SWG was said to be in but really might have been added (or allowed/turned on) in a later patch.  Same thing happened in EQ2 with frogloks.  So, hidden unlocks, remorts, etc, I frankly don't trust the devs not to turn into a money milking scheme.

Bottom line for me.  No jedi day one, no thanks. forever.

Originally posted by Tarka

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by Tarka

Edit: One other note.  Any Star Wars game that doesn't let most people become Jedi is doomed to also fail.  Who wants to play in that genre and not be one?

 

On the other hand, who'd want to played anything BUT a jedi if it is a standard class in an MMO?

Those who want to be a jedi would expect to be the best in combat.  Which reduces any attraction in other classes.

Becoming a Jedi should be a "Prestige" experience  e.g. 10 people per week find an artifact which unlocks their potential.  Meaning that after 1 year, 17% of a 3000 maximum capacity server will be jedi "attuned".

Forgetting the flippant answer of sith.  They don't have to be alpha classes unless someone puts on narrowly focused glasses and stubborningly stay there.  I didn't play SWG because of how they did the jedi and will stay away if they do the same thing here.  Jedi are star wars, period, not up for debate.  Without them, it isn't a star wars game.

The thought of someone running around as a Level 1 jedi just sounds like a contradiction to me.  I'm not for one second saying that there shouldn't be ANY jedi in the game.  On the contrary.   But I feel that becoming a Jedi should be something to work towards, not something you start a game as surely?

Not all force-sensitives, adepts, or apprentices made it to becoming a Jedi.  Needs to be something you have to work toward and decisions you make along the way determine whether or not you reach the rank of Jedi.