Originally posted by unherdninja

EVE died yet?

What was the next week's peak?

EVE died yet?

How many customers did they lose by the "unsubbed training nerf"?

EVE died yet?

 

EVE just hit a new peak of more than45,000 online at a time. EVE still shows no signs of death. Sorry to disappoint you

:D

Originally posted by Kyleran

51K reached today I'm told.  Maybe the removal of ghost training is encouraging people to actually play? 

Yeah.

Maybe they did some good moves these last months. With serverupgrades, maybe the "limit" to when people log of due to lag or other problems is higher.

Looking forward to see what the new retail box will make into of this.

A corpmate reported over 1200 people in Jita  and very little lag if any at all.

Edit:

Just to be on topic. I loved having the ghost training it was nice but I fully understand why CCP cut it out. That reason was that too many people were levelling up characters and selling them but with efficient planned levelling with the ghost training you could level a guy really far without paying much money if any if you paid for them with time codes and then those characters were being solf off for real money. This is why it was removed and I fully support it, though I do miss it myself for when I needed a short break from Eve. This wasn't a problem for years since Eve was still a very small game. Now Eve is getting big and the market is there and CCP had to do something.

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Zanpt

It looks like the Sunday peak population stats for Eve may have begun to show the effect of people consolidating accounts, quitting, and generally reducing their participation:

39,617 on Sun, Oct 19 (four days after the unsubbed training nerf)

39,258 on Sun, Oct 26 (-359 from prev week's peak)

37,416 on Sun, Nov 2 (-1,842 from prev week's peak, -2,201 from Oct 19 peak)

Next week's peak will be very interesting.  CCP is between a rock and a hard place:  if they report true numbers it will become apparent that they are losing business.  If they tinker with the numbers they risk becoming the pariah of the gaming industry (or worse).

Note that they are down 5,295 from the year's high water mark of 42,711 in Mar/April of 2008.

 

EVE died yet?

What was the next week's peak?

EVE died yet?

How many customers did they lose by the "unsubbed training nerf"?

EVE died yet?

I, simply just want to ask the questions again.

EVE died yet?

What was the next week's peak?

EVE died yet?

How many customers did they lose by the "unsubbed training nerf"?

EVE died yet?

As can be seen on this graph there was a small dip 2 first weeks of november but then it went back to year high levels.

If that dip was due to ghost training or something else I don't know.

Yup that tiny dip was ALL those ghost training accounts canceled. Eve almost died that day haha.

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Yup that tiny dip was ALL those ghost training accounts canceled. Eve almost died that day haha.

couldn't possibly be new players joining to replace the ones that quit, eh?

 

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A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.

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Not an EVE player though thinking of trying a trial just for something other than a damn fantasy MMO, but this caught my eye and might have turned me off because it is so hypocritical.  If they are saying that people levelling up in the time spent = power sense does negatively affect others then that is the best argument to never try this game since you can never ever catch up to most of the players and big corps.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

 

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A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.

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Not an EVE player though thinking of trying a trial just for something other than a damn fantasy MMO, but this caught my eye and might have turned me off because it is so hypocritical.  If they are saying that people levelling up in the time spent = power sense does negatively affect others then that is the best argument to never try this game since you can never ever catch up to most of the players and big corps.

I dont know why anyone would Necro this, But dude it's real simple.

The removal of Ghost training was done for one reason because CCP wants people to pay to skill train.

It has nothing to do with people never catching up.

If you train you pay, simple as that.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

 

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A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.

---

 

 

 

Not an EVE player though thinking of trying a trial just for something other than a damn fantasy MMO, but this caught my eye and might have turned me off because it is so hypocritical.  If they are saying that people levelling up in the time spent = power sense does negatively affect others then that is the best argument to never try this game since you can never ever catch up to most of the players and big corps.

I don't think you quite understand whats happening here, or I am misunderstanding you.

This isn't a case of people levelling faster within their paid time. This is a case of characters being levelled while the account was not being paid for. This wasn't a problem back when Eve was still a small time game and not many people cared about it, but now since Eve has grown so much the farmers have set their sights and they were farming characters and selling for real world money outside of the game and this is what had to be stopped. Did it hurt the small player just taking a break ? Yes, but it's an unfortunate price that has to be paid and I agree with it. Name one other game that would let you level your character while not paying for the account. CCP did it for years as a courtesy because they could, now they can't.

And your thought about never catching up has been proven time and time again is a non issue in every sense.

Caused a big buzz but no major impact. EVE rocks on

Yep..remember there was big talk about the offical forums about how this would drive many of their customers away and how CCP was messed up for doing so. Hasn't hurt it ever since.

My issue with reading this is that CCP states as their reason the very thing they deny about EVE's game system, the idea that new people are pretty much forever behind the eight ball compared to people who have been playing.  Mind you, I don't disagree that leveling while you don't even have an account is stupid but I also think leveling while you are not logged on is stupid as well.  One of the biggest reasons I never really tried EVE, and I think why lots of folks do not try EVE, is because the leveling system guarantees that vets will pretty much always overpower new players due to the leveling system, fans and CCP argue this but then in the statement they made about their reasoning on this change they pretty much confirm that perception about the game.

"capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."

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Originally posted by AgtSmith
My issue with reading this is that CCP states as their reason the very thing they deny about EVE's game system, the idea that new people are pretty much forever behind the eight ball compared to people who have been playing.  Mind you, I don't disagree that leveling while you don't even have an account is stupid but I also think leveling while you are not logged on is stupid as well.  One of the biggest reasons I never really tried EVE, and I think why lots of folks do not try EVE, is because the leveling system guarantees that vets will pretty much always overpower new players due to the leveling system, fans and CCP argue this but then in the statement they made about their reasoning on this change they pretty much confirm that perception about the game.
 
"capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."

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my goodness a statement from game developers that supports your ignorant assumptions? Could it be that your interpretation only exist in your mind because you won't be willing to actually think about an alternative to your faith?

no matter how many times this comes up it amazes me that people always apply the standards that they gained from other games to judge EVE, and then assume they can't be wrong.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

My issue with reading this is that CCP states as their reason the very thing they deny about EVE's game system, the idea that new people are pretty much forever behind the eight ball compared to people who have been playing.  Mind you, I don't disagree that leveling while you don't even have an account is stupid but I also think leveling while you are not logged on is stupid as well.  One of the biggest reasons I never really tried EVE, and I think why lots of folks do not try EVE, is because the leveling system guarantees that vets will pretty much always overpower new players due to the leveling system, fans and CCP argue this but then in the statement they made about their reasoning on this change they pretty much confirm that perception about the game.

 

"capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."

All I can say is you've misquoted and distorted the passage and it does not support your theory.

I've been playing for 2 years, and for a good long time now i do not feel any sort of disadvantage to veterans except perhaps in terms some of them fly capital ships and I don't.

However, that said, I could have chosen and been flying the subcaptials 6 months ago had that been my desire, but that's just not a play style I want to commit to. (Captital ship pilots are severely restricted in their gaming options, for better and worse)

Instead I'm a small ship specialist ,and I can fly more small ships well than many 4 year vets who chose the captial ship route.

And lets cut to the chase about the elimination of ghost training. Forget the excuses, CCP wanted to make more money, and elimination of Ghost training seems to have accomplished exactly that. 

I played long enough, admitingly some time ago, to know how the system works and it is fair to say that time sub'd equals more skills, period.  It is also accurate to say that if you have a player who starts today and one that starts a month or two later that the player who started later will never catch up to the player that started earlier as the skills earned are based not of accomplishment or play time but character time.  That statement only serves to highlight that condition in saying that it is unfair that a sub'd player doesn't catch up to and unsub'd player, CCPs own words call that an unfair advantage.  I am not saying it breaks the game, but come on - it is a major impediment to players started now verse those who have been playing any length of time.

I think the change is a good one (as it does at least let active accounts catch up to inactive ones) but I just find the stated reasoning from CCP ironic as they unwittingly confirm one of the biggest issues people have in coming late to the game.

Originally posted by Kyleran 

And lets cut to the chase about the elimination of ghost training. Forget the excuses, CCP wanted to make more money, and elimination of Ghost training seems to have accomplished exactly that.  

On this much we agree.

Ghost Training
The only people that truly suffered from the loss of ghost training was character sellers. The people who actually play the game with either their single account or multiple accounts for alts are for the vast majority not bothered by it at all. Am I really gonna be upset that my character can't train to finish a skill I set before cancelling my account ? This makes no sense to me, either I like the game and I am playing and therefore not ghost training or I do not like the game and not playing it and therefor don't care about the game or my character.

Skillpoints
While it is true a new player will never catch up in total skillpoints this does not mean they cannot catch up in the relevant skills they need for a certains hip class is the new player specializes at first. Once those SPs are caught up and they can be then the newer player can start cross training and be just as good as the vet in other ships. Just because there is no limit to the total SPs a character can have this does not mean that a character is all powerful. Skills have caps and every ship class only uses a set ammount of skills at a time anyways.

CCP and Money

CCP wanted to make more money ? OMFG, how dare they want to make money off those characters being sold by the gold farmers who trained up those characters for nothing.

Seriously get over it. CCP needs to eat and pay their employees and if you think they are being money hungry capitalist assholes then vote with your wallet and go play something else, maybe some game made by a bunch of hippies that want to spread cheer and joy throughout the world for nothing.

Are you guys really arguing over a change that occurred 8 months ago still?

Originally posted by Taram

Are you guys really arguing over a change that occurred 8 months ago still?

Yeah..forum drama is nice, don't you think so?

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Originally posted by AgtSmith
I played long enough, admitingly some time ago, to know how the system works and it is fair to say that time sub'd equals more skills, period. 

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yes. absolutely. However more skills does not equal more fun. It also doesn't mean you will win a PvP fight. A character with more skills than you still has more things they want to train. (open ended)

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Originally posted by AgtSmith
It is also accurate to say that if you have a player who starts today and one that starts a month or two later that the player who started later will never catch up to the player that started earlier as the skills earned are based not of accomplishment or play time but character time. 

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not necessarily true, but lets just ignore stats, implants and optimized choices but lets say you are correct. So what? What is it that is about this esoteric value of skill points that bothers you? is that what you want to compete on, your skill point total? really? can't say i want to play your game. but hell if you really want to, make a trade character, excel at it over a few months and buy yourself a high sp total character with isk. perfectly allowed in the EULA. there you go, you 'win' at EVE.

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Originally posted by AgtSmith
That statement only serves to highlight that condition in saying that it is unfair that a sub'd player doesn't catch up to and unsub'd player, CCPs own words call that an unfair advantage. 

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the fairness comes into the fact that ghost training allowed the farming of cheap high sp alts. Specialization does play a significant role in character development. A tightly focused alt can make a big difference. You can still make one, but now you need to have an active account to do it.

simply put, it was the massive production of low sp alts that was unfair.

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Originally posted by AgtSmith
I am not saying it breaks the game, but come on - it is a major impediment to players started now verse those who have been playing any length of time.

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This is the sentiment I disagree with the most. You believe it limits you, that it limits your opportunities. That it limits your fun. you could specialize and in most areas and easily be able to compete. Those few areas where you couldn't you need to have helped build and develop trust from others over years in order to have the support you need to be able to actually fly those ships.