So what's the outcome of this, what happens when one side takes the other factions city? U finally get the "Game Over" screen? ^^

Originally posted by veratutazz

Originally posted by Pheace

Originally posted by Z3R01

 

No.. I'm not kidding AM raids sucked ass in DAoC also.

These people that raid early hoping noone would defend are pussies, they were in DAoC and now in WAR.

Lets see these guys raid a city when Order is actually online... yeah they wont.

 

Well unless they make a time frame lock from like 6pm - midnight local primtetime this issue will never be going away, people will always take the path of least resistance :S

 

As for Keeper, yeah that was a response to what happened in the EU raid.

 

 

 Geeze louise people..

 Make rewards associated with # of people from opposing side online averaged from start of raid to finish.

Fixed.

 

 If someone wants to raid the Order city when zero order players are on.. I say fine. Let them.

 Just make it a useless venture.. basically a 'dress rehersal'.

 no reknown, little to no xp. No noteriety, and they only keep the city for 30 seconds.

 

In addition, # of guards = inverse # of players on (with somne form of level averager in the mathematical mix.

 

 There. Now, if you wanna attack at 4am CST? fine. Tonz - o- NPC guards worth little to no loot or xp.

 

 Attack during Prime Time?

 Little to no guards & much better rewards.

 

Duh.

 

This will accomplish two things. It will turn it into even more of a PvE game. It will cause the defending faction on unbalanced servers to log off when they are about to be outnumbered in a battle.

"Eh, we're outnumbered, don't have a chance to win, might as well make it as unrewarding as possible for the attackers" /logoff

Then the people who have the organization and time to plan and execute the attack aren't being rewarded for their efforts.

Originally posted by AstralGeth

Originally posted by veratutazz

 

 

 Geeze louise people..

 Make rewards associated with # of people from opposing side online averaged from start of raid to finish.

Fixed.

 

 If someone wants to raid the Order city when zero order players are on.. I say fine. Let them.

 Just make it a useless venture.. basically a 'dress rehersal'.

 no reknown, little to no xp. No noteriety, and they only keep the city for 30 seconds.

 

In addition, # of guards = inverse # of players on (with somne form of level averager in the mathematical mix.

 

 There. Now, if you wanna attack at 4am CST? fine. Tonz - o- NPC guards worth little to no loot or xp.

 

 Attack during Prime Time?

 Little to no guards & much better rewards.

 

Duh.

 

This will accomplish two things. It will turn it into even more of a PvE game. It will cause the defending faction on unbalanced servers to log off when they are about to be outnumbered in a battle.

"Eh, we're outnumbered, don't have a chance to win, might as well make it as unrewarding as possible for the attackers" /logoff

Then the people who have the organization and time to plan and execute the attack aren't being rewarded for their efforts.

This idea was thoroughly vetted in the MMOFPS Planetside. (for *years*)

IMHO it worked as well as can be expected.

 Admittedly, Planetside is not Warhammer, but I believe the founding principles as to what worked and what did not hold true.

Since I played Planetside from beta, I can tell you that, yes, in the beginning ghost captures had a greater reward, were scasled back, and pseudo-fixed.

 Obviously, the "assaulting side" would get a "reward" for every second the other team *was* logged on  (ajudicated in the end).

 Obviously there would be abuse.

 However, with respect, I think you are oversimplifying the idea to produce credence to your opinion.

 A balance can be made so that:

 A-'ghost captures' are reduced in rewards

B- 'prime time' captures are increased in rewards

C-abuse is kept to a minimum

 This isnt rocket science & its not like there are not paradimes that cannot be drawn upon from previous games to use as guidelines.

By the time we got into the city, it was past 10 am EST. We started early at 7 AM because we knew it would take us several hours to grind the zones leading up to Altdorf, and we did meet only a few members of Order resistance up until that point. Once inside Altdorf the amount of Order defending the scenario outnumbered our main force in scenario 3, it was the fact that other instances also contribute to the overall total that we did eventually take the city. It was a serious task to get the almost 300 members on vent and coordinate an attack at 7 AM to begin with between the Retribution alliance guilds.

It's unfortunate that Order didn't gather their forces more rapidly, but the fact that the city didn't get taken until almost noon gives almost no excuse. Many people exaggerated how early the attack was launched, and this was on a weekend no less when most people aren't working. Also, our alliance contains only a handful of lvl 40 players, with most ranging between 32 - 38. That speaks to the coordination we needed, and perhaps the level of difficulty the game should be adjusted to to ensure that more 40s are needed for future assaults.

This was a fun battle.  I took part in it.  Couldn't actually go in Altdorf but.  I helped out as much as I could with my level 27. 

PS Order on this server is equal to Destruction.  They win just as many Scenrios as Destruction and had there city to rank for several days before we did.

Originally posted by TheFirst109

By the time we got into the city, it was past 10 am EST. We started early at 7 AM because we knew it would take us several hours to grind the zones leading up to Altdorf, and we did meet only a few members of Order resistance up until that point. Once inside Altdorf the amount of Order defending the scenario outnumbered our main force in scenario 3, it was the fact that other instances also contribute to the overall total that we did eventually take the city. It was a serious task to get the almost 300 members on vent and coordinate an attack at 7 AM to begin with between the Retribution alliance guilds.

 

It's unfortunate that Order didn't gather their forces more rapidly, but the fact that the city didn't get taken until almost noon gives almost no excuse. Many people exaggerated how early the attack was launched, and this was on a weekend no less when most people aren't working. Also, our alliance contains only a handful of lvl 40 players, with most ranging between 32 - 38. That speaks to the coordination we needed, and perhaps the level of difficulty the game should be adjusted to to ensure that more 40s are needed for future assaults.

This didn't seem to work on the VNboards as everyone destruction side seems too narrow minded and wants to defend their turf but I will try again.

Seriously, reroll to a different server or re-roll order on averhiem.  You are only as good as your opponents.  If this city raid was not a huge wake up call to Destro on your server then nothing will be.  You will never get good RvR until then.

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Its sad their were no defenders during this..

come on people get involved.

2 am in the morning ? Yeah, I don't think so.

 Those who raided altdorf here didn't want a challenge, they zerged the city to see what would happen when they claimed it.

The big question.. does anyone really care if their city is taken?

" Your city is under attack"

um.. ok..  I guess I'll queue for another scenerio.

RvR will never work in Warhammer for two reasons

1. Most players play for 'themselves'.  they are more worried about their own progression then their faction
2. Scenerios make it an easy decision for those players when deciding how to spend their time.

Mythic and some posters on this forum greatly underestimated the 'selfishness' of most players.   You can't expect the majority of players to 'fight for the team' when the personal rewards are so much higher in scenarios.

They need to nerf scenarios or what you saw happen here will be all that will ever happen with RvR.  One side will get super-organized and steamroll the other side who are happily queueing for scenarios.

Originally posted by TheFirst109

By the time we got into the city, it was past 10 am EST. We started early at 7 AM because we knew it would take us several hours to grind the zones leading up to Altdorf, and we did meet only a few members of Order resistance up until that point. Once inside Altdorf the amount of Order defending the scenario outnumbered our main force in scenario 3, it was the fact that other instances also contribute to the overall total that we did eventually take the city. It was a serious task to get the almost 300 members on vent and coordinate an attack at 7 AM to begin with between the Retribution alliance guilds.

 

It's unfortunate that Order didn't gather their forces more rapidly, but the fact that the city didn't get taken until almost noon gives almost no excuse. Many people exaggerated how early the attack was launched, and this was on a weekend no less when most people aren't working. Also, our alliance contains only a handful of lvl 40 players, with most ranging between 32 - 38. That speaks to the coordination we needed, and perhaps the level of difficulty the game should be adjusted to to ensure that more 40s are needed for future assaults.

I don't get it... why don't you guys just be honest.

Don't feed us that BS "we started because we had to grind zones" No. you started early to get a jump and you new the first and probably the second scenario would be undefended. Saying it was unfortunate that order didn't defend quicker is just plain bullshit. You knew this would be a lock if you started at 7am on a sunday....... who the hell wakes up that early on sunday?

by the time order came around in scenario 3 it didn't matter what they did since you already destroyed the scenarios before with virtually no defense.

the rest of the community would respect you guys more if you just came out and said "hey bitches we caught you while you were sleeping suckers" then the crap your spouting now.

But no, you don't want to cheapen your city seige victory against NPCs. you want to make it out like Order had a shot at defending and you just out fought them.

such bullshit!

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by TheFirst109

By the time we got into the city, it was past 10 am EST. We started early at 7 AM because we knew it would take us several hours to grind the zones leading up to Altdorf, and we did meet only a few members of Order resistance up until that point. Once inside Altdorf the amount of Order defending the scenario outnumbered our main force in scenario 3, it was the fact that other instances also contribute to the overall total that we did eventually take the city. It was a serious task to get the almost 300 members on vent and coordinate an attack at 7 AM to begin with between the Retribution alliance guilds.

 

It's unfortunate that Order didn't gather their forces more rapidly, but the fact that the city didn't get taken until almost noon gives almost no excuse. Many people exaggerated how early the attack was launched, and this was on a weekend no less when most people aren't working. Also, our alliance contains only a handful of lvl 40 players, with most ranging between 32 - 38. That speaks to the coordination we needed, and perhaps the level of difficulty the game should be adjusted to to ensure that more 40s are needed for future assaults.

I don't get it... why don't you guys just be honest.

Don't feed us that BS "we started because we had to grind zones" No. you started early to get a jump and you new the first and probably the second scenario would be undefended. Saying it was unfortunate that order didn't defend quicker is just plain bullshit. You knew this would be a lock if you started at 7am on a sunday....... who the hell wakes up that early on sunday?

by the time order came around in scenario 3 it didn't matter what they did since you already destroyed the scenarios before with virtually no defense.

the rest of the community would respect you guys more if you just came out and said "hey bitches we caught you while you were sleeping suckers" then the crap your spouting now.

But no, you don't want to cheapen your city seige victory against NPCs. you want to make it out like Order had a shot at defending and you just out fought them.

such bullshit!

 

Sounds like someone is a little bitter about their life? I'm sorry you don't think it's important enough to wake up at 7 AM on a Sunday but 300 people did and those 300 people will always have a game first in WAR as stated by Mark Jacobs.

I never said Order had a legitimate shot at ever beating us, I merely stated that they never gathered the required numbers. I think it's pretty clear that we started the siege of the zones at 7 am as a surprise attack, and we did so knowing that it would take several hours to even unlock Altdorf. I emphasized the time because alot of people made it sound like we started it at 2 AM lol and that is retarded.

The bigger focus should be on that the end game content was done with almost no level 40's, I think that would be of bigger concern to most people than the time it was done with. I agree with others who think that this is like completing an MC run with a bunch of 50's. What else is left to do? I dont know nothing really.

I'm not going to deny the fact that we started early to strike when Order was few in numbers, but the fact we did brought to light that it's extremely more time consuming for the attacker not to have anyone to kill why trying to grind the zones to unlock the way to the Capital. It would have been so much quicker if even one warband had come to defend any of the lower level tiers so we could have farmed them and moved the bar alot faster than taking an hour per zone.

The Order on our server are extremely good, those that are in T4 that is, and they were all pretty excited for the challenge. Not bitter like alot of the people who aren't even on the server are haha.

Who says i'm not on your server?

anyway a world first before Mythic tunes the content so you cant take a city with just NPCs defending would be the real world first imo and a lot of others as well.

Who knows next time you guys take a city maybe you will actually have order to fight the whole way and I'll be in that thread giving you a congrats for doing it the right way.

Edit: why would one be bitter about thier life if they enjoy sleeping in on sundays? the majority of us with real 9-5 m-f jobs do it.

Originally posted by Raztor

Didn't MJ say these weren't suppose to happen for the first few months? And then when they did happen it would take a few weeks to push into the city?

 

These people have lvl 1-40 and done the end game content in 3 weeks...

 

/sigh

I guess you can say, they have the brag rights that they "beat" the game. I wont complain, Order on my server sucks anyway and I wouldn't be surprised if Destruction took over Altdorf on my server.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Who says i'm not on your server?

anyway a world first before Mythic tunes the content so you cant take a city with just NPCs defending would be the real world first imo and a lot of others as well.

Who knows next time you guys take a city maybe you will actually have order to fight the whole way and I'll be in that thread giving you a congrats for doing it the right way.

 

Edit: why would one be bitter about thier life if they enjoy sleeping in on sundays? the majority of us with real 9-5 m-f jobs do it.

Sorry we took Altdorf in its current state and not after the "tuning" but I personally care more about MJ's opinion on what is a game first than yours =P

And in a pvp mmo you have to deal with the fact that there is going to be seiging at any time, ESPECIALLY in one of open rvr. Former Shadowbane and EVE players know this all too well.

Originally posted by TheFirst109

Originally posted by Z3R01

Who says i'm not on your server?

anyway a world first before Mythic tunes the content so you cant take a city with just NPCs defending would be the real world first imo and a lot of others as well.

Who knows next time you guys take a city maybe you will actually have order to fight the whole way and I'll be in that thread giving you a congrats for doing it the right way.

 

Edit: why would one be bitter about thier life if they enjoy sleeping in on sundays? the majority of us with real 9-5 m-f jobs do it.

Sorry we took Altdorf in its current state and not after the "tuning" but I personally care more about MJ's opinion on what is a game first than yours =P

 

And in a pvp mmo you have to deal with the fact that there is going to be seiging at any time, ESPECIALLY in one of open rvr. Former Shadowbane and EVE players know this all too well.

Personally I think you guys shot yourselves in the foot.  I think this is the worst thing to happen for WAR since the game released.

This + the very bad population problems are certainly a major factor in me deciding to cancel.  The RvR is currently a bit of a joke or non-existant or a bit of both.

Without an assload of research most players have a complete crap shoot as to whether they get a good game or a game that completely sucks entirely dependent on server choice.

In addition one of the faction is pointless to play.   Be more concerned about MJ's opinion all you like.  But you should be most concerned about the opinions of your opponents not MJ.

I don't think that they will impose any kind of primetime only sieging or reduced rewards because it would be blatantly unfair to people that don't play regular hours. 

You have to have a level playing field.

If you log onto any popular mmo there are people playing 24/7.

Why should people who play during the busiest hours have special treatment?

Everyone is paying the same monthy fee so exactly the same rules should apply.

So on that server, the usual 3-1 destruction wasen't an issue? If it was, why do people gratulate a broken system? xD

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by TheFirst109

Originally posted by Z3R01

Who says i'm not on your server?

anyway a world first before Mythic tunes the content so you cant take a city with just NPCs defending would be the real world first imo and a lot of others as well.

Who knows next time you guys take a city maybe you will actually have order to fight the whole way and I'll be in that thread giving you a congrats for doing it the right way.

 

Edit: why would one be bitter about thier life if they enjoy sleeping in on sundays? the majority of us with real 9-5 m-f jobs do it.

Sorry we took Altdorf in its current state and not after the "tuning" but I personally care more about MJ's opinion on what is a game first than yours =P

 

And in a pvp mmo you have to deal with the fact that there is going to be seiging at any time, ESPECIALLY in one of open rvr. Former Shadowbane and EVE players know this all too well.

 

Personally I think you guys shot yourselves in the foot.  I think this is the worst thing to happen for WAR since the game released.

 

This + the very bad population problems are certainly a major factor in me deciding to cancel.  The RvR is currently a bit of a joke or non-existant or a bit of both.

 

Without an assload of research most players have a complete crap shoot as to whether they get a good game or a game that completely sucks entirely dependent on server choice.

 

In addition one of the faction is pointless to play.   Be more concerned about MJ's opinion all you like.  But you should be most concerned about the opinions of your opponents not MJ.

You're not the Order on our server. This has only fired them up more to try to take our capital city now. I would hardly say we shot ourselves in the foot, it only encouraged teamwork amongst each of the realms respectively. I can only hope it will lead to more order hitting t4 soon.

As for faction's being pointless to play, besides population imbalances which there are tremendous amounts of, the classes themselves are pretty well balanced for a game right out of the gates. However, that doesn't disregard the fact that I agree with you about the lack of rvr/endgame. I find it to be rather boring in its current state (aka getting the same scenario popping once every 10 mins). I have found 0 difference between doing serpent's passage and say WSG for grinding in wow.

They really need to up the rewards you get from achieving higher ranks of renown, as after doing Altdorf today I really can't see myself doing that repetitively for very long.

Originally posted by TheFirst109

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by TheFirst109

Originally posted by Z3R01

Who says i'm not on your server?

anyway a world first before Mythic tunes the content so you cant take a city with just NPCs defending would be the real world first imo and a lot of others as well.

Who knows next time you guys take a city maybe you will actually have order to fight the whole way and I'll be in that thread giving you a congrats for doing it the right way.

 

Edit: why would one be bitter about thier life if they enjoy sleeping in on sundays? the majority of us with real 9-5 m-f jobs do it.

Sorry we took Altdorf in its current state and not after the "tuning" but I personally care more about MJ's opinion on what is a game first than yours =P

 

And in a pvp mmo you have to deal with the fact that there is going to be seiging at any time, ESPECIALLY in one of open rvr. Former Shadowbane and EVE players know this all too well.

 

Personally I think you guys shot yourselves in the foot.  I think this is the worst thing to happen for WAR since the game released.

 

This + the very bad population problems are certainly a major factor in me deciding to cancel.  The RvR is currently a bit of a joke or non-existant or a bit of both.

 

Without an assload of research most players have a complete crap shoot as to whether they get a good game or a game that completely sucks entirely dependent on server choice.

 

In addition one of the faction is pointless to play.   Be more concerned about MJ's opinion all you like.  But you should be most concerned about the opinions of your opponents not MJ.

 

You're not the Order on our server. This has only fired them up more to try to take our capital city now. I would hardly say we shot ourselves in the foot, it only encouraged teamwork amongst each of the realms respectively. I can only hope it will lead to more order hitting t4 soon.

 

As for faction's being pointless to play, besides population imbalances which there are tremendous amounts of, the classes themselves are pretty well balanced for a game right out of the gates. However, that doesn't disregard the fact that I agree with you about the lack of rvr/endgame. I find it to be rather boring in its current state (aka getting the same scenario popping once every 10 mins). I have found 0 difference between doing serpent's passage and say WSG for grinding in wow.

 

They really need to up the rewards you get from achieving higher ranks of renown, as after doing Altdorf today I really can't see myself doing that repetitively for very long.

Go ask the guys on Volkmar whether Order on Averhiem have a chance at getting to IC.  Because the cahnce is about 0.1 % no matter how good they are or how bad you guys play.

Ok, Looks like all your info is one side. I am on the Order side of Averheim. I have a lvl21 Bright Wizard. I happened to be logged on and in Altdorf when this happened.

I have no problem with what happened. Do you not attack your enemy just because it’s dark and they can’t see you? Or do you not raid their camp just because their sleeping. No, these are all strategies of WAR. We were caught with our pants down. We were total unprepared and had no good leadership or communications. Now some better notification would have been better for the ones that logged in after it started. We had guild members that had no idea that this was even going on when they logged on.

The only problem for me was. I was in Altdorf when they attacked. As soon as it happened I was thrown out of the city. Would have liked to have been able to stay inside and defend the city and fight. From what I hear now, the reason I was thrown out was because I was not a lvl 31 and up. What does that have to do with anything? We tried to get back in but it would not let us. So when people say nobody defended the city it was because most of us were thrown out. You could not even fly back in. We had no idea what we were doing. When we finally got it together and rode our horses all the way back to the main gates ( 5 minuet ride) we would then be killed in about 30 seconds. This got old after the 3rd time. I’m sure if we would have seen them coming down the map it would have helped. If we had some notification while in the City that T4 Keeps were being take’n then we would have had a little notice and been able to rally the troops better.

The good that comes from this is that we just got a big wake up call. And we needed it.
 

Originally posted by Imscifi

Ok, Looks like all your info is one side. I am on the Order side of Averheim. I have a lvl21 Bright Wizard. I happened to be logged on and in Altdorf when this happened.

I have no problem with what happened. Do you not attack your enemy just because it’s dark and they can’t see you? Or do you not raid their camp just because their sleeping. No, these are all strategies of WAR. We were caught with our pants down. We were total unprepared and had no good leadership or communications. Now some better notification would have been better for the ones that logged in after it started. We had guild members that had no idea that this was even going on when they logged on.

The only problem for me was. I was in Altdorf when they attacked. As soon as it happened I was thrown out of the city. Would have liked to have been able to stay inside and defend the city and fight. From what I hear now, the reason I was thrown out was because I was not a lvl 31 and up. What does that have to do with anything? We tried to get back in but it would not let us. So when people say nobody defended the city it was because most of us were thrown out. You could not even fly back in. We had no idea what we were doing. When we finally got it together and rode our horses all the way back to the main gates ( 5 minuet ride) we would then be killed in about 30 seconds. This got old after the 3rd time. I’m sure if we would have seen them coming down the map it would have helped. If we had some notification while in the City that T4 Keeps were being take’n then we would have had a little notice and been able to rally the troops better.

The good that comes from this is that we just got a big wake up call. And we needed it.
 

Yep this is a serious design flaw and really needs to be looked at. A good part of our own raid couldn't go in either anyone 31 or below. I find this to be insanely stupid since we absolutely needed the level 31s and below help because since there were no Order out in any of the tier zones to fight, we had to rely on them to take the lower level zones and initiate the trickle down effect. Then when we got to Altdorf they were "rewarded" by not getting to see the inside of Altdorf at all. It was rather annoying.