Personally think Korean mmos , the good ones like Lineage 2 , SUN and a few others are the best at animatrion and overall character aesthetics, western or North American mmo's are leaned towards content, and player community in my opinion, where as korean games pull you in with character animations , special effects and design. European mmo's go for art aesthetics as well , over content, it is pretty easy to spot the differences between the Asian, N . American , and European designs.

In my opinion, one of the first European mmo's to branch away is TCoS, they are truly trying to make the bridge between player community and content design, over aesthetics.

I like this armor too :

Originally posted by solareus

I like this armor too :

that looks pretty epic.

Originally posted by openedge1

Originally posted by Jackdog

1 word - cloaks. Lotro has the most beautiful cloaks that I have ever seen in a game. Couple that with the way they flow and move in the wind and that is all I really care about since 99% of the time I am viewing my char from the upper rear. Never cared for the head gear myself, I use decorative circlets on all my chars. Also Lotro has what 15 or 16 different dye colors now. Add in that you can wear 3 completly different outfits at the same time and choose any of the three to be seen and I have zero problems with the characters.

Yup...that is mighty realistic...

Youtube Burglar and Cloak

Gotta love those cloaks...

@openedge -hows AoC coming along for you?

Fun...and realistic (not sure what that has to do with unrealistic LOTRO models...because AoC has some of the best models in the genre right now)

 

because I remember the cloaks in AoC looked like triangular pieces of  3/4 inch plywood sticking out behind the characters LOL.. Those boys in Cimmeria need to lay off the starch in the laundry a bit. LOL Yeah that AoC is real realistic, like running around in FPS or a rat in maze.

Of course with AoC the pixilated boobies and gallons of blood splashing on the screen like a bad horror flick make it all worthwhile for some people. The heck with content when you can have all that right

LOL @ JAckdog, I do remember thinking the same thing about AoC very washed out plywood thick stiffies. hehe

Another Element with LotRO, we haven't even dove intop Mithril peices yet, so Epic has yet been achieved, all this armor and character costumization is just the appitizer 

Originally posted by logicbox9

Plenty of retarded armor can be found on this site... my favorite is:

 

>>>

 

Fanbois, feel free to tell me how great this armor looks, I mean... am I the only one that understands that this shit is PAINTED on he body model? Horrible design, and this will never change... the only thing you are going to see in MoM are awful bodypainted reskins... See all the awful armor here:

 

http://www.northshield.co.uk/LOTRO/Armour.htm

Both of the above images look ridiculous, but atleast the one on the right has a 'package'.  I think it's wierd that male avatars have zero groin bulge.  If women get breast sliders men should get groin sliders.  LOL...'groin slider'.  That sounds funny, but you get my point, no pun intended.

I agree the avatars are off.  It is something I have commented on before.  The faces don't look right for a number of reasons.  I think the comments about proportion and the sprayed on armor are also part of the problem.  Hair styles suck.  More long flowing beautiful hairstyles please.  Animations could definitely be better as well.

As far as who has done it better, I liked SWG's character customization.  I was very happy with my female and male human avatars.  Also AOC had some nice looking characters as well, and with shader 3.0 they looked downright gorgeous.

Actually I was just revisiting my SWG pictures.  There were some problems there too, it wasn't all perfect, but I was happy with it.

Also I think my Vanguard avatar is nicer looking than my LOTRO avatar.  But many of the Vangaurd avatars are disappointing as well.

I really don't get why people get so wrapped up in how their avatars face looks. 99% 0f my time ingame is spent looking at my characters back, or at his morale ( health) bar, or at a mob. Just speaking for myself of course but good interesting and balanced game play with plenty of end game options is my number one concern, good scenery is second in my list of wants, and having the company treat me with a bit of respect is third and LoTRO satisfies all of those needs quite well thank you very much :)

For those who are all wrapped up in character appearance I suggest this

www.pcworld.com/shopping/detail/prtprdid,24607529-sortby,retailer/specs.html

I do wish LotrO Avatars wore nylon stockings like the AoC ones ..

/sarcasm off

Nice Jaggies btw..

Originally posted by solareus

I do wish LotrO Avatars wore nylon stockings like the AoC ones ..

/sarcasm off

Nice Jaggies btw..

Lets see...some random guys blog, has AA off, shaders off and you pick on jaggies?

Try with AA on and Shaders on (I think I remember you getting whiny over a post where someone used a low res image to represent the ugly characters in LOTRO)

Real Armor and Real Faces in AoC

Realistic visuals based on the setting of the character

Oh, and video...noting the realistic sway of cloaks in AoC

I will take the REAL characters of Conan...

Thanks

Yes, I agree. Avatar to avatar comparison between Lotro and AoC, AoC wins. Why shouldn't they? Pretty avatar graphics is all conan is, nothing more. 

I also thought the AoC video showing the cloaks in slow motion looked decent, but speed that up and it will look very clunky. Just look at the cloak when you run, it looks like a 2x4 swinging from side to side. Awful. Cloak wise, Lotro wins hands down.

Personally, I think the Lotro avatars looks ok, nothing special. Only thing I miss is special animations for spear, but I guess thats coming in MoM - with the warden. (can anyone confirm this?)

Originally posted by solareus

I do wish LotrO Avatars wore nylon stockings like the AoC ones ..

/sarcasm off

Nice Jaggies btw..

TBH that still looks 100 times better than LOTROs characters. (Just so you know I'm subbed to LOTRO at the moment) I wish LOTRO had that good character models but it hasn't stopped me playing it... yet.

Also think I saw the AoC avatar doing a schick leg hair remover commericail as well. Think the small details like body hair seem to be missing from AoC ? I know LotRO there is a good amount of hair on the arms and the some hair on the hobbits feet, that is the charm in creating your own modeling applications , you don't have to be completely generic , to me the AoC models look fake, out of place in the game world as well as plastic and generic. LotRo has much more charisma for me and the models look like they belong in the game world.

AoC biggest failure in the models is that they aren't lghted with the world light map, that is why they have that shine, they use a different light source for the models which is not very great game design. Think that LotrO using the the entire world shader to cast lighting is the smart chioce not only for great shadows and texture effects , but for great world and model aesthetic.

When I tested AoC, the game world shader was completly off from the model shaders, and it sticks out like a sore thumb, it was just to "in my face" and it made the rest of the twisting foliage stick out. LotRO entire game theory in character cohesion to the game world is much more sound then AoC, in my opinion.

VG using one light source as well, and you can see the difference in how the realistic models look compared to AoC as well.

My biggest problem is that all the clothing is skin tight. It's like they have no texture at all. Instead you are just changing the color of your legs, chest and arms. Not to mention the serious lack of options for making your character look different from everyone else. These days a MMO can't get away with a few faces and hair styles. You need sliders for almost everything. My friends used to get frustrated with me because on some games I could easily waste an hour or more just making a character. When I played City of Heroes, if I got bored, I would actually make new characters just to kill a few hours. That is how fun it was.

I am not going to get into what game looks better because that all depends on the person and styles they like. I know several games that I think have great character models for the game world they are in. Are the best and most realistic? No, but they are pleasant to the eye and fit the game world. 

I'll also add that I am subscriber too. I am by no means bashing the game, but this is one area they really need to work on improving. I can overlook it until I zoom in on the character but a lot of people can't. The avatar is probably the most important thing in an MMO next to the game play itself. This is because it is so personal for a lot of people. It is also another way to show off accomplishments in a game. It really bugs me when MMO's come out now, that have less options for an avatar than the games that started the MMO revolution years ago. Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by Abruner

My biggest problem is that all the clothing is skin tight. It's like they have no texture at all. Instead you are just changing the color of your legs, chest and arms. Not to mention the serious lack of options for making your character look different from everyone else.

I stop reading there Think LotrO is one of the fewest games that has been going out of it's way to give players options in character looks, like the costume system . Not only can you mix and match any armor you want, you can also wear armors that you normally wouldnt beable to, though you don't get the stats, it is just for costume.

As time goes on more hair styles and faces will be available in LotRO , and as far as I know, it has more character options the both WAR VG and AoC. Maybe someone can confirm if they put the slider (the real sliders) back into VG ?

The sliders are back in Vanguard, but Lotro has more hairstyles, mostly because Vanguard's hairstyles are race restricted. I still would like a height and weight slider in Lotro - would helped alot.

And I would like to agree on avatars in AoC looks out of place. Maybe its because of the reasons you mentioned, but I always thought the enviroment in AoC look awful, plain and random.

Originally posted by solareus

 

AoC biggest failure in the models is that they aren't lghted with the world light map, that is why they have that shine, they use a different light source for the models which is not very great game design. Think that LotrO using the the entire world shader to cast lighting is the smart chioce not only for great shadows and texture effects , but for great world and model aesthetic.

Yes, if you use Shader 2.0 because your video card cannot handle the game, then you must accept downgraded graphics. As my links have demonstrated above, Shader 3.0 does NOT have the shine and is properly light mapped. Research pays off when you are making false claims.

When I tested AoC, the game world shader was completly off from the model shaders, and it sticks out like a sore thumb, it was just to "in my face" and it made the rest of the twisting foliage stick out. LotRO entire game theory in character cohesion to the game world is much more sound then AoC, in my opinion.

Again, when you downgrade to Shader 2.0, you deal with this issue. It is just like using Medium textures in LOTRO, taking a screenshot, and saying the game is always like that. Incorrect deductions ensue.

LOTRO ONLY has landscapes to save it visually, yet I feel the cities of AoC are still the most realistic...as demonstrated here...

Khemi and proper Shading lightmaps demonstrated

Tarantia and Shadows off, Shader 3.0 on (note skin textures...NOT lit up as described above)

It is best to check your facts before posting.

Originally posted by openedge1

Originally posted by solareus

 

AoC biggest failure in the models is that they aren't lghted with the world light map, that is why they have that shine, they use a different light source for the models which is not very great game design. Think that LotrO using the the entire world shader to cast lighting is the smart chioce not only for great shadows and texture effects , but for great world and model aesthetic.

Yes, if you use Shader 2.0 because your video card cannot handle the game, then you must accept downgraded graphics. As my links have demonstrated above, Shader 3.0 does NOT have the shine and is properly light mapped. Research pays off when you are making false claims.

When I tested AoC, the game world shader was completly off from the model shaders, and it sticks out like a sore thumb, it was just to "in my face" and it made the rest of the twisting foliage stick out. LotRO entire game theory in character cohesion to the game world is much more sound then AoC, in my opinion.

Again, when you downgrade to Shader 2.0, you deal with this issue. It is just like using Medium textures in LOTRO, taking a screenshot, and saying the game is always like that. Incorrect deductions ensue.

LOTRO ONLY has landscapes to save it visually, yet I feel the cities of AoC are still the most realistic...as demonstrated here...

Khemi and proper Shading lightmaps demonstrated

Tarantia and Shadows off, Shader 3.0 on (note skin textures...NOT lit up as described above)

It is best to check your facts before posting.

Meh, I played it on highest setting and the landscapes still looks bland and unconnected with the avatar. The cities look good though. Realistic? hell no. Invisible walls and zoning inside cities killed that. You can bring photogenic graphics from AoC, it doesnt help one bit, the game is still in one the worst MMOs ever launched. And I beta'd both D&L & AoC, and D&L was alot more fun - atleast that felt like an MMO and not an single playergame.

But im sorry for derailing the thread, how about staying on topic?

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

They're just nasty and they don't move right and it's hard to explain it without showing it to you in person but they just feel very off. I want to play on because I want to see what the player housing has to offer but frigging the character models are stopping me currently.

Yeah, posting about art style in a game is basically flame bait on these forums unfortunately, but personally I can agree with you, and I'll explain why.

The art style in LOTRO is actually quite consistant with the art style in various Tolkien related publications from the time in which his work was published, up until around the Rankin/Bass version of "The Hobbit" in 1977 and Ralph Baski version "The Lord of The Rings" in 1978 which shifted the general image of Middle Earth to a combonation of those styles (which where in turn largely inspired by fairy tale illustrations form the 1800's, as opposed to early the early 20th century pulp-fantasy style) until the Peter Jackson trilogy shifted again to a more modern fantasy style.

One of the difficulties Turbine developers discuss while making Lotro was that they where legally obligated to avoid looking like any of the movies, and thus went with the early to mid 20th century pulp-fantasy style that Tolkiens would still be familar with, but avoid looking like any of the films.

So all that makes sence, but personally having been a Tolkien and fantasy in general fan for many years, I always hated that art style, thus didn't really appriciate the artistic direction of Lotro which greatly impaired my enjoyment of the game.

Originally posted by Analyser

 

at release LOTRO was like the absolute downgrade from anything that was standard in player customising. I think not even Everquest one had fewer options at release. When players screamed they added your "costume" crap and a few more armor sets.

But LOTRO is far away from what much older games have set as standard.

What LoTRO was like over a year ago is irrelevent.  Even if it were, you have no idea what you are talking about.

EQ did not launch with the option to dye gear.  LoTRO did. WoW and many other MMOs still have no dye options to this day. 

Currently LoTRO also has three separate appearance tabs, with toggles to turn every peice of gear on and off separately for each tab.  You can very easilly switch between three entirely diferent outfits.  Not even EQ II has so many options (it has one appearance tab, and no dye options).   The system is much more flexible than WAR, WoW, EQOA, EQ, EQ II, FFXI, TR, AC, and DAoC ...just off the top of my head.  None of those have dye and appearance tabs, most lack both.

Did you men to imply that CoH is now the defacto standard for MMOs?  Becuase that's really the only one I can think of off the top of my head that allows you greater flexibility than LoTRO in customizing your gear appearance in game.  Sure I'd love it if all MMOs were as flexible as CoH.  But that's only one MMO.  The fact remains that LoTRO is well above average when it comes to customizing the appearance of your gear. 

maybe you meant the lack of sliders on the chracater creation screen.  Indeed, LoTRO doesn't have hundreds of sliders on the character creation screen like some MMOs.  However that's far from "standard," few MMOs go with that system.  And with good reason.  If the info for someone's head is two dozen variables (rather than the three or four that you get in most MMOs) it hammers your framerates when lots of players are around.  Ironically, unless you are standing right next to someon it adds almost nothing to the game.  Two guys with the same hair style, hair and skin color look damn near identical from a distance (or even a few feet away) save for their gear. 

That's why Turbine focused on gear customization rather than giving everyone 100 sliders for nostril flare and ear tilt.  I actually hate that kind of system personally.  The moment you put on a helmet, it's utterly pointless.  And even if you aren't wearing one, it's pointless for anyone not within cybering distance.  Gear customization is much much more important to me than the number of sliders on the character creation screen.

You might not like how any of the gear looks in LoTRO, but that's a matter of taste.  The mechanics that LoTRO has in place are very solid.