So this is a question that appears many times in my head. Why did God create an earth full of so much evil and pain? Was it to teach human beings a lesson so that they would learn to full love each other?

Well going from the Gurus teachings and Hinduism , it makes the most sense that this earth is a piece of art or more so an on going movie. It  has all the layers of expressions that make a piece of artwork complete : disgust , beauty , hate , love , happiness , sadness , health , disease. Basically it is full of dualities , why can't we just have all the good things? Well then I suppose this on going cosmic movie/art of God wouldn't be as interesting. It makes sense to me that it is nothing from than a drama , a play or a movie as the Gurus would say. If we really were hear to learn some great lesson , couldn't it be taught in a more...positive and better way? Why don't we live on the earth forever? Why arn't we immortal? Well obviously man wasn't created to live on such a place of duality for eternity.

Who is God? If God is omnipotent , omniscient and omnipresent than why did he give man so many issues to work out on his own and why is he so mysterious? Why is he kept so hidden from us? In one of the scriptures is says that God is infinite so how can he exist in a place of such finiteness. But then why are we finite? what was the point of making us suffer through this finite , stressful and negative world just so God could have a on going drama to entertain himself with? And what are we rewarded with for having to participate for a good hundred years without our own will , so we didn't will ourselves to be created on this earth why should we be trapped here? And yet the only way out is through this very painful process called death. How is it fair? Simply put , it isn't. If heaven does exist and it is eternal and is eternal love , peace and joy then that would be a fair reward but the question is why arn't we already there? Why are we here in this body of gross matter as a slave of the sense objects? Do we really reincarnate?

I know if I were to reply with what I really thought, then we'd get into a massive forum discussion and I wouldn't have time to keep up with replies, but if you REALLY TRUELY want to know - please PM me if you want.

Blessings,

To prove to himself that he can fail to predict something eventually.

Hey the big guy upstairs must be going insane knowing everything that is going to happen.  Someday someone will excercise true freewill and break the pattern.

Some great questions here -- most of which have no easy answers. I have found some "answers" to my satisfaction, but not all.

The best way for me to say it is, God is LOVE. Now, in order for God to fully express LOVE, He needs to create OTHER. In order for the OTHER to experience LOVE, the OTHER needs to be free; that is capable of rejecting the LOVE.

Once we reject that love, evil has been allowed to enter the world. This is also necessary because without evil we can not know the Good. Without hate we can not know love. Without separation we can not know unity.

Now, if God was not mysterious, we would not be free. If we KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt that he existed, the we would KNOW ultimately all is His and we would lose our essential capacity to choose to NOT be HIS.

By playing it as a mysterious dance with us, he woos us back into His Grace.

Essentially the story is this: Boy Creates Girl; Boy sets Girl Free, Girl rejects Boy, Boy wins Girl back.

Please note all these things are at best a metaphor to explain what I have learned from studying dozens of faiths. Just a sketch of how I see these things.

Originally posted by Fishermage

Some great questions here -- most of which have no easy answers. I have found some "answers" to my satisfaction, but not all.

The best way for me to say it is, God is LOVE. Now, in order for God to fully express LOVE, He needs to create OTHER. In order for the OTHER to experience LOVE, the OTHER needs to be free; that is capable of rejecting the LOVE.

Once we reject that love, evil has been allowed to enter the world. This is also necessary because without evil we can not know the Good. Without hate we can not know love. Without separation we can not know unity.

Now, if God was not mysterious, we would not be free. If we KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt that he existed, the we would KNOW ultimately all is His and we would lose our essential capacity to choose to NOT be HIS.

By playing it as a mysterious dance with us, he woos us back into His Grace.

Essentially the story is this: Boy Creates Girl; Boy sets Girl Free, Girl rejects Boy, Boy wins Girl back.

Please note all these things are at best a metaphor to explain what I have learned from studying dozens of faiths. Just a sketch of how I see these things.

Hmm that is very interesting and a good answer. But really why not just let us be without all this? I want to go back to God , i want be in just pure love yet i'm trapped here without really knowing where I go when I die. The well known issue of reincarnation scares me , I die only to come back to this world all over again and in possibly a worse life? Now mind you this earth has it's good points and lots of amazing and special things about it but there is alot of seemingly negative things. I use to fully believe God is pure love but now I somewhat question that , I have to endure the hardships of life just to possibly come back to life all over again? although the real hardship is the negativity of other people who abuse freewill , not nessecarily the earth itself but more so human beings.

For some reason I've studied alot of the gurus and they say going to heaven isn't so easy , if you're not totally immersed in God conciousness at your death then you will take on rebirth. So if i'm not in totaly samadhi ( spiritual trance ) when I die then i will take on rebirth. That seems a little harsh from a God who is supposedly so loving. For some reason I can't get that idea out of my head that it's wrong because these are men who have spent there who lives devoted to God and deep meditation and I take their word for it.

So are we to assume that the purpose is in a scope that humans can comprehend and  doing that limit the vision of "God" ?

"Why?" is a good question , but I dont feel that we could or should ever try to answer it , unless you think that man is capable of being "God" and doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose of faith?

im agnostic if that means anything , but i still dont see a reason to ponder this except in cases where faith is lacking or not giving you the satisfation you think it should.  if either of those is the case then its the religion failing you not "God" . Question why belief is the way it is not what is everyones purpose. Less of a headache and one question that possibly has an answer for you. But of couse i am biased.

Originally posted by peaceandlove

There's no such thing as dieties. Come on, it's the 21st century. Everything in the bible gets disproven everyday.

Not if you have deep and serious ""hallucinations"" of Gods. lol.

Originally posted by peaceandlove

There's no such thing as dieties. Come on, it's the 21st century. Everything in the bible gets disproven everyday.

Let's see you prove that.

Originally posted by chrono73

Originally posted by Fishermage

Some great questions here -- most of which have no easy answers. I have found some "answers" to my satisfaction, but not all.

The best way for me to say it is, God is LOVE. Now, in order for God to fully express LOVE, He needs to create OTHER. In order for the OTHER to experience LOVE, the OTHER needs to be free; that is capable of rejecting the LOVE.

Once we reject that love, evil has been allowed to enter the world. This is also necessary because without evil we can not know the Good. Without hate we can not know love. Without separation we can not know unity.

Now, if God was not mysterious, we would not be free. If we KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt that he existed, the we would KNOW ultimately all is His and we would lose our essential capacity to choose to NOT be HIS.

By playing it as a mysterious dance with us, he woos us back into His Grace.

Essentially the story is this: Boy Creates Girl; Boy sets Girl Free, Girl rejects Boy, Boy wins Girl back.

Please note all these things are at best a metaphor to explain what I have learned from studying dozens of faiths. Just a sketch of how I see these things.

 

Hmm that is very interesting and a good answer. But really why not just let us be without all this? I want to go back to God , i want be in just pure love yet i'm trapped here without really knowing where I go when I die. The well known issue of reincarnation scares me , I die only to come back to this world all over again and in possibly a worse life? Now mind you this earth has it's good points and lots of amazing and special things about it but there is alot of seemingly negative things. I use to fully believe God is pure love but now I somewhat question that , I have to endure the hardships of life just to possibly come back to life all over again? although the real hardship is the negativity of other people who abuse freewill , not nessecarily the earth itself but more so human beings.

For some reason I've studied alot of the gurus and they say going to heaven isn't so easy , if you're not totally immersed in God conciousness at your death then you will take on rebirth. So if i'm not in totaly samadhi ( spiritual trance ) when I die then i will take on rebirth. That seems a little harsh from a God who is supposedly so loving. For some reason I can't get that idea out of my head that it's wrong because these are men who have spent there who lives devoted to God and deep meditation and I take their word for it.

Interesting stuff -- I don't buy the re-incarnation angle. To me, it makes eacj life meaningless, since in each life, we never know what went on in prior lives. Therefore, on;y ourlife outside of life matters...which I find to be kinda odd.

Well let's see....

If i choose to reject any god or faith.  I live for only myself. suffer a miserable life on this pathetic planet. die really jaded and hate everything about this life. Live in fear of that day finally coming where I die alone.

or...

God created me. Loves me. Like a loving father (a GOOD parent) He lets me learn hard lessons in life. Those lessons make me strong in character, strong in spirit. My life finds purpose. I live my life purposefully.  I know true love, joy, peace.  My possessions mean very little and nothing ties me down.  best of all... i don't fear dying or death in any form.    ... because....  My life was all training for a much greater purpose in Eternity.

I choose the latter.

"I create light and i create darkness, i create the good and evil,i the Lord do all these things,and where fore have i created evil? that men should fear before me"
Ahh yes the the good ol why?  question,i have been asking that myself for years.
 

 Here we have an holy/meaning seperate from evil god creating evil.read the book of Job.

 Who allows good men to die at the hands of evil men. Yeah he is an mystery wrapped in an enigma all right.

I look at it this way, the Earth is a farm and we are the crop, the "Gods" feed off our emotions,God feeds off our love,joy peace. The Devil feeds off of our hate,fear,anger.  Hence when an angel of the Lord shows up invairably the first thing they say is "fear not" no need to feed the enemy afterall.

  And if God is paitent enough to tolerate the evil of man who am i to disagree with it. He created it let him be the one who judges.

If we choose not to feed God he is able to replace us with a new crop of people.Time is on his side,not ours.    When God ceases to be fed/through worship and belief when men become vain and indifferent  he will move to renew his crop.

We are dealing incorpreal beings,or as our forefathers described them spirits. Time is of no import to those who live outside of it's influence. What matters is if they are being fed...

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by peaceandlove

There's no such thing as dieties. Come on, it's the 21st century. Everything in the bible gets disproven everyday.

 

Let's see you prove that.

 

Tell me about what the bible says about stars. "For our enjoyment". Really? Do you really believe that?

Do you think lightning, thunder, and floods are from angry dieties too?

How old is Earth? Still believe it's 4,000 years old?

If jesus presented himself to everybody after he flew out of his tomb, why doesn't he do it now? According to your bible, isn't every prayer answered? So where is he?

Why doesn't he cure amputees? You magical god cures everyone else right?

How did Noah get 2 of every species (that's over 14 billion species x2) on 1 boat? How did he get them from every continent, then put them back where he got them from? How did he feed them? Wasn't the world still flat? How did he know about animals, bacteria, fungi, etc in South America? Where is this boat? How could something that big disappear?

Why can the same story in the bible be told in reference to astrology?

Why wasn't a man walking on water a big deal back then? Was it common to walk on water? Or rise from the dead? Why not now?

Horice.

Why does god money need every sunday?

Dinosaurs.

Why do people starve to death?

Did the courts in Chicago rule that creationist are bunk? You know, the one that was bible thumpers v. scientist. Why did the religious people lose that case? No proof? No evidence?

Unless you're the missing money-shot that would have blown that case open, I doubt you have anything factual to respond with. But humor me anyways.

 

 

In other words, you will use your  ignorance of the Bible, what it is, what it says, and how most Christians view it  -- and claim that as your proof. Gotcha.

First, you quote the poetry in the bible, and then jump to some bizarre conclusion about it.

No, biblically rain and thunder are nature.

The Bible doesn't make any claims as to the age of the earth. Most Christians believe it is billions of years old, and that is fully consistent with scripture (if yoiu know what you are reading).

I explained why Jesus doesn't do what you are asking above; plus -- the real question you are asking is: why doesn't God do as I say? that's a very immature view of reality, isn't it?

Again, the Noah story has many different views and interpretations. Your fundamentalist view of it is not the only one. It could also be a story or allegory. Most Christians do not hold to the same inerrant notion of scripture that Fundamentalists do.

It is interesting you make less and else sense as you go along; all you have "proven" is that fundamentalists are wrong (you haven't really proven that, but no matter). Big deal. You aren't really proving anything about the bible except that you are quite ignorant of it and the wide view of interpretations.

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by peaceandlove

There's no such thing as dieties. Come on, it's the 21st century. Everything in the bible gets disproven everyday.

 

Let's see you prove that.

 

Tell me about what the bible says about stars. "For our enjoyment". Really? Do you really believe that?

Do you think lightning, thunder, and floods are from angry dieties too?

How old is Earth? Still believe it's 4,000 years old?

If jesus presented himself to everybody after he flew out of his tomb, why doesn't he do it now? According to your bible, isn't every prayer answered? So where is he?

Why doesn't he cure amputees? Your magical god cures everyone else right?

How did Noah get 2 of every species (that's over 14 billion species x2) on 1 boat? How did he get them from every continent, then put them back where he got them from? How did he feed them? Wasn't the world still flat? How did he know about animals, bacteria, fungi, etc in South America? Where is this boat? How could something that big disappear?

Why can the same story in the bible be told in reference to astrology?

Why wasn't a man walking on water a big deal back then? Was it common to walk on water? Or rise from the dead? Why not now?

Horice.

Why does god need money every sunday?

Dinosaurs.

Why do people starve to death?

Did the courts in Chicago rule that creationist are bunk? You know, the one that was bible thumpers v. scientist. Why did the religious people lose that case? No proof? No evidence?

Unless you're the missing money-shot that would have blown that case open, I doubt you have anything factual to respond with. But humor me anyways.

 

 

Even if he gave you a scientific and perfectly logical answer to every one of those you'd reject it.  Why bother with your post. 

There's more truth in my sentence above than all of what you just said.

Originally posted by MarleVVLL

I know if I were to reply with what I really thought, then we'd get into a massive forum discussion and I wouldn't have time to keep up with replies, but if you REALLY TRUELY want to know - please PM me if you want.

Blessings,

Is there really a need for religious propeganda in signatures these days? Has it really come this far?

Originally posted by Faxxer

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by peaceandlove

There's no such thing as dieties. Come on, it's the 21st century. Everything in the bible gets disproven everyday.

 

Let's see you prove that.

 

Tell me about what the bible says about stars. "For our enjoyment". Really? Do you really believe that?

Do you think lightning, thunder, and floods are from angry dieties too?

How old is Earth? Still believe it's 4,000 years old?

If jesus presented himself to everybody after he flew out of his tomb, why doesn't he do it now? According to your bible, isn't every prayer answered? So where is he?

Why doesn't he cure amputees? Your magical god cures everyone else right?

How did Noah get 2 of every species (that's over 14 billion species x2) on 1 boat? How did he get them from every continent, then put them back where he got them from? How did he feed them? Wasn't the world still flat? How did he know about animals, bacteria, fungi, etc in South America? Where is this boat? How could something that big disappear?

Why can the same story in the bible be told in reference to astrology?

Why wasn't a man walking on water a big deal back then? Was it common to walk on water? Or rise from the dead? Why not now?

Horice.

Why does god need money every sunday?

Dinosaurs.

Why do people starve to death?

Did the courts in Chicago rule that creationist are bunk? You know, the one that was bible thumpers v. scientist. Why did the religious people lose that case? No proof? No evidence?

Unless you're the missing money-shot that would have blown that case open, I doubt you have anything factual to respond with. But humor me anyways.

 

 

 

Even if he gave you a scientific and perfectly logical answer to every one of those you'd reject it.  Why bother with your post. 

There's more truth in my sentence above than all of what you just said.

Well, I answered his "fundamentalist athiest" tirade as best I could. At least the parts that were discernable. Personally, I don't blame him for being ignorant of the Bible and what it means and how many ways it can be interpreted, I blame a lack of education. This is the fault of mainstream Christianity; and our lack of separation of school and state.

Originally posted by peaceandlove

lol

How do you not feel uncomfortable with yourself coming up with these rationalizations?

You don't feel uncomfortable with yourself in showing your ignorance of this Bible you are arguing against?

Honestly, if you REALLY want to learn -- and I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt -- I have a nice website where everything you are talking about and more, is answered on a regular basis. If you have the courage to have your own views challenged, please check this site out:

www.tektonics.org/

I was an agnostic/athiest from about the age of 13 to the age of 36. I have read every book by every modern athiest (Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, Dennet and more), and many books by and about all of earth's religions. I continue to challenge myself. Do you?

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by Faxxer

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by peaceandlove

There's no such thing as dieties. Come on, it's the 21st century. Everything in the bible gets disproven everyday.

 

Let's see you prove that.

 

Tell me about what the bible says about stars. "For our enjoyment". Really? Do you really believe that?

Do you think lightning, thunder, and floods are from angry dieties too?

How old is Earth? Still believe it's 4,000 years old?

If jesus presented himself to everybody after he flew out of his tomb, why doesn't he do it now? According to your bible, isn't every prayer answered? So where is he?

Why doesn't he cure amputees? Your magical god cures everyone else right?

How did Noah get 2 of every species (that's over 14 billion species x2) on 1 boat? How did he get them from every continent, then put them back where he got them from? How did he feed them? Wasn't the world still flat? How did he know about animals, bacteria, fungi, etc in South America? Where is this boat? How could something that big disappear?

Why can the same story in the bible be told in reference to astrology?

Why wasn't a man walking on water a big deal back then? Was it common to walk on water? Or rise from the dead? Why not now?

Horice.

Why does god need money every sunday?

Dinosaurs.

Why do people starve to death?

Did the courts in Chicago rule that creationist are bunk? You know, the one that was bible thumpers v. scientist. Why did the religious people lose that case? No proof? No evidence?

Unless you're the missing money-shot that would have blown that case open, I doubt you have anything factual to respond with. But humor me anyways.

 

 

 

Even if he gave you a scientific and perfectly logical answer to every one of those you'd reject it.  Why bother with your post. 

There's more truth in my sentence above than all of what you just said.

 

What scientific explainations? I like how you people try to claim scientific explainations to back yourselves up. Yet, never to be proven or taken seriously.

Why can't these questions be answered or proven by you people? I didn't even ask the hard ones........

Let me ask another serious question, do you believe in Santa Claus?

How many people do you know spend most of their adult lives not believing in Santa Claus, and then, after decades of deliberation and sincere study of the evidence, come to a conclusion that Santa Claus exists? how many people after that find their lives changed and improved because of this newfound belief in Santa Claus?

Why do you need to compare the two when people's experiences in these areas are so very different? Do you have such a low view of people, and ideas, and thought processes that you must reduce this discussion to a childish snap contest?

What does that say about YOU and the philosophy YOU live by?

hmmm last news... God didn't create the earth. Yeah pretty amazing.

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by peaceandlove

lol

How do you not feel uncomfortable with yourself coming up with these rationalizations?

 

You don't feel uncomfortable with yourself in showing your ignorance of this Bible you are arguing against?

Honestly, if you REALLY want to learn -- and I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt -- I have a nice website where everything you are talking about and more, is answered on a regular basis. If you have the courage to have your own views challenged, please check this site out:

www.tektonics.org/

I was an agnostic/athiest from about the age of 13 to the age of 36. I have read every book by every modern athiest (Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, Dennet and more), and many books by and about all of earth's religions. I continue to challenge myself. Do you?

To answer, no, I don't.

Right now I'm doing some Biology homework. I figured Chemistry was good for my first college degree. I thought maybe I should study something new for this second college degree I'm getting right now.
 

I can physically SEE how the world works. All of my questions are answered. I don't have to "make it up" when I don't know an answer, I can do research and testing. negatives and positives hundreds on times in independant, dependant, and controlled variables.

If you believe in dieties to give you a warm fuzzy, then fine. I'm don't really care. Yes, I know it's pointless to point out how silly religion is to people. but don't hold back the rest of us that want to find more facts about the past and future.

How did the Universe start?  Since you have the degree.

God is like Baskin Robbins, he likes variety in his denominations. Instead of 31 flavors he has quite a few more.